New Samsung 4k for everyone.

so... it seems for example that 6640... has a 100hz panel instead....
Its not a 120hz like 7500 serie.... but I would then prefer to get 6640 instead of the 6500...
 
Vapochilled said:
So...

Anyone knows where to get a cheap 40inch 7500 in Europe?
I cant find it in Portugal....

I just find the 48 inch... but...
48 inch.. seems too big.. I would rather go with 40.
As stated, I can get the 7500 model - 48 inch for 1030e....
So... I wouldn't expect more than 800e for the 40inch model....

anyone? I don't even find this model in amazon...




BTW: I can see the following curved models but I cant find the difference between them:
JU6500 - 690e
JU6640 - 750e
JU6510 - 790e

?
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with 48". I have a 48" and it's just fine. It's the perfect size imo.
I used a 40" before this and it was big, but not as immersive.
My keyboard is just in front of the tv stand. so I'm sitting quite close to it.
Back when I upgraded from 30" to 40", I thought it was quite big, but you get used to it really fast. Now there's no way I can go smaller than 48".
 
Nebell said:
Nothing wrong with 48". I have a 48" and it's just fine. It's the perfect size imo.
I used a 40" before this and it was big, but not as immersive.
My keyboard is just in front of the tv stand. so I'm sitting quite close to it.
Back when I upgraded from 30" to 40", I thought it was quite big, but you get used to it really fast. Now there's no way I can go smaller than 48".
Click to expand...

While I have gotten used to my 48" (it takes a few weeks), IMHO, the ideal size for this resolution would be ~42". It would result in the right pixel density, IMHO, and still be quite large enough.
 
Zarathustra[H];1042004000 said:
While I have gotten used to my 48" (it takes a few weeks), IMHO, the ideal size for this resolution would be ~42". It would result in the right pixel density, IMHO, and still be quite large enough.
Click to expand...

Yep. I really loved the 40" JU6700 that I started this journey with, and although I do love the gaming aspects of my 48" JS9000 I can not honestly say that "I now cannot / will never go back to a smaller size." After having owned both sizes, I always thought the sweet spot would be 42-44".

If I were in the market now I would strongly contemplate trying the Sony XBR43X830C. It's cheaper than the 40" JU6700 was when those came out (now only $50 higher), IPS, PWM-free, and was capable of doing 120Hz @ 1080p until a firmware update introduced some artifacting. Here's hoping that Sony will fix that issue, but I doubt it'll get much attention since that's a rather limited use case.

And for you hardcore 48" guys, they make it in a 49" version as well. There are other, higher models as well that have more features (like with Samsung) but those don't interest me for use as a PC monitor.
 
Upgraded from 50hu6900 to 40ju6570 curved screen.
hu6900 was lack of 4:4:4 chroma but it didn't bother me much. it was a very bright screen . This one is not as bright as hu6900. hu6900 was a a-mva panel (which everyone thinks is inferior to samsung panels) Imo a-mva screen has superior contrast and vieweing angles compared to my new samsung screen (psa?)
The viewing angles in this new set is almost absymal compared to other VA screens i own. Since i am using direct it as pc monitor it doesn't matter but if one gonna use it on living room bad luck .

Tested some movies, hu6900 was almost perfect but this one adds depth to movies (not because of curved screen) but the colors have much more depth. Even if the hu6900 has more vivid colors ju6570 (similar to 6700) have that sense of depth idk why.
what hu6900 sucked most was upscaling 1080p sources, this one is exceptional at displaying ps4 games not as good as native 1080p screens but close.
I also bought second display for ps4 40h6400 (a real 100hz tv) because ju7500 costs almost 3X more $$$ here. payed 600$ for ju6570 when ju7500 was 1500$. I will miss a real 100hz 4k tv but price gap is ridicilous:(

instead i got myself a 3d 1080p tv with awesome clarity in 1080p for 350$ (brand new)
so for total 900$ i will game in 1080p tv, desktop video edit movies etc on 4k tv.
best of the both worlds.
 
imyourzero said:
If I were in the market now I would strongly contemplate trying the Sony XBR43X830C. It's cheaper than the 40" JU6700 was when those came out (now only $50 higher), IPS, PWM-free, and was capable of doing 120Hz @ 1080p until a firmware update introduced some artifacting. Here's hoping that Sony will fix that issue, but I doubt it'll get much attention since that's a rather limited use case.
r.
Click to expand...
This is my problem with the 830C series...:
Black: 0.138 cd/m2
White: 102.2 cd/m2
Contrast: 741 : 1

To me that is pretty bad. I wish Sony had their 810C series in the 40-43" range. Right now it looks like my best choice will be the 43" JU7100 ....
 
Last edited:
did setup the 40h6400 too.
it also has samsung panel and compared to curved samsung j6570 the black level is much better (lights off). Actually the black levels on ju6570 is shockingly bad for a VA panel. Do all curved tv's suffer from this? not ips bad but blacks are horrible in dark room compared to my other va tv's.
 
shaolin95 said:
This is my problem with the 830C series...:
Black: 0.138 cd/m2
White: 102.2 cd/m2
Contrast: 741 : 1

To me that is pretty bad. I wish Sony had their 810C series in the 40-43" range. Right now it looks like my best choice will be the 43" JU7100 ....
Click to expand...

In reality black isn't that bad NCX tested it and those panels are almost IPS glow free too. 830C support strobing backlight too, that's like Lightboost so you can reduce motion blur.
http://www.blurbusters.com/sony-motionflow-impulse-mode-reduces-motion-blur-without-interpolation/
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...ave-strobing-baclight-impulse-motionflow.html
 
aadik said:
In reality black isn't that bad NCX tested it and those panels are almost IPS glow free too. 830C support strobing backlight too, that's like Lightboost so you can reduce motion blur.
http://www.blurbusters.com/sony-motionflow-impulse-mode-reduces-motion-blur-without-interpolation/
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...ave-strobing-baclight-impulse-motionflow.html
Click to expand...

How do you mean in reality? The specs I listed above ARE measured from a review not listed specs so it cannot get more real than that so I am confused about your comment.
Regards
 
aadik said:
In reality black isn't that bad NCX tested it and those panels are almost IPS glow free too. 830C support strobing backlight too, that's like Lightboost so you can reduce motion blur.
http://www.blurbusters.com/sony-motionflow-impulse-mode-reduces-motion-blur-without-interpolation/
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...ave-strobing-baclight-impulse-motionflow.html
Click to expand...

in my all samsung tv's led clear motion creates some reverse ghosting in fifa 15 which is th eonly game that needs real 100hz tv with blur reduction.
and if i dont set the backlight @ 20 there is also a weird ghosting no matter motion plus on or off.
only in fifa:)
 
shaolin95 said:
http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x830c
Read that
Click to expand...

imo that tv is trash. worse than Tn panel monitors on contrast and peak whites.
lol@Max white: 196.1 cd/m2
i don't even like the blacks on my ju6570 which is va and is pretty bright.

or76izG.jpg

tv7pD70.jpg
 
Last edited:
JU6xxx have more matte screen than Sony 43''/49'' and sony semi glossy is almost fully glossy screen. X830C have even better colors because it isn't wide gamut like JS9000. JS9000 only have better contrast and that's all.
 
You trolling guys are no help :D

:confused: I need to buy my own Christmas gift and you guys are just making it worse. I cant make a decision what to get....
any recommendations and European shops?
 
I don't like TN or IPS screens i won't ever use them because of contrast and black levels.
I was even using samsung 32r series hdtv for a pc monitor 10 years ago when full hd wasn't even a standart and everyone thought 32" pc screens are ridicilous big.. I hate TN screens that much.
But if you are going to put the tv on a living room with 2-3 people watching at the same time from diffrent angles ips is superior to VA.
sony 4k tv's cost 2X more than samsung here so i never thought about getting a sony but if sony has VA panel models i would look at them.
that maximum brightness will hurt you in a daylight room or even a room in the night with lots of light. This is not plasma it should be at least 250.
 
aadik said:
Your screen black is almost same like in NCX video. Your matte screen ruin your black more than IPS with semi glossy screen.
Read NCX posts in this thread and you see even cheap x830c is better computer screen than JS9000
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1876567
Click to expand...

NCX is extremely biased. PWM = automatic no recommendation from NCX. If everybody here listens to NCX, no one would be owning Samsungs.
 
Cyph said:
NCX is extremely biased. PWM = automatic no recommendation from NCX. If everybody here listens to NCX, no one would be owning Samsungs.
Click to expand...

A quick search for him and his now student from the other thread clearly shows this so I hope people do their own homework and not just blindly follow his "recommendations". ;)
 
Cyph said:
NCX is extremely biased. PWM = automatic no recommendation from NCX. If everybody here listens to NCX, no one would be owning Samsungs.
Click to expand...

Yeah, he and I and his associate Nikyo have bumped heads a few times. I don't particularly enjoy arguing on forums but when someone more or less calls me an idiot for enjoying something that they don't, that's where I draw the line.

The thing is, he and Nikyo are knowledgeable but they have no tolerance or acceptance of anything outside of their recommendations which fall under fairly strict guidelines. Like you said, PWM is an automatic disqualifier and therefore anyone who chooses to buy a display that uses PWM is an idiot. Everyone who finds the vivid, saturated colors of wide gamut panels visually pleasing is out of their minds. All of us who purchased the Samsungs are considered fools to them, despite probably hundreds of happy owners in this thread alone (not counting other forums). To them, we are all uneducated, brainwashed simpletons who spent money on trash displays and there is no understanding or attempt to compromise with a "Well, we don't recommend the Samsungs for these reasons but if those issues don't bother you then enjoy!" It's either black or white.

NCX and Nikyo present good information but the way they go about it comes across as cold and very off-putting, particularly if you prefer something that falls outside of the scope of their recommendations.
 
imyourzero said:
Yeah, he and I and his associate Nikyo have bumped heads a few times. I don't particularly enjoy arguing on forums but when someone more or less calls me an idiot for enjoying something that they don't, that's where I draw the line.

The thing is, he and Nikyo are knowledgeable but they have no tolerance or acceptance of anything outside of their recommendations which fall under fairly strict guidelines. Like you said, PWM is an automatic disqualifier and therefore anyone who chooses to buy a display that uses PWM is an idiot. Everyone who finds the vivid, saturated colors of wide gamut panels visually pleasing is out of their minds. All of us who purchased the Samsungs are considered fools to them, despite probably hundreds of happy owners in this thread alone (not counting other forums). To them, we are all uneducated, brainwashed simpletons who spent money on trash displays and there is no understanding or attempt to compromise with a "Well, we don't recommend the Samsungs for these reasons but if those issues don't bother you then enjoy!" It's either black or white.

NCX and Nikyo present good information but the way they go about it comes across as cold and very off-putting, particularly if you prefer something that falls outside of the scope of their recommendations.
Click to expand...

The problem is either way you go there WILL be a compromise and no matter how they try to spin it, the Sony 830 series has HORRIBLE contrast and pathetic black levels and not amount of BS excuses they come up with will be able to fix that. You can clearly see how bad they are.
Now whether that is less important to you than other factors is a different thing and I can understand having choices and some people picking one over the other but for them to say those are the holy grail and the Samsuns are crap is just plain stupid but hey, the internet is here for everyone so we all can do our own research and not just follow one or two persons on faith. ;)
 
And you know what else is funny? He claims that PWM causes motion blur which I don't believe is true. Motion blur is a result of LCD sample and hold technology and its response rate. Non-PWM has an awful smearing blur, whereas PWM has a different blur with less smear. PWM decreases the affect of the smearing effect, not increase it.

Lightboost is a technology that mimics CRT-like PWM strobing to decrease motion blur. I don't buy the notion that Samsung uses PWM because they cheap out. PWM is superior in decreasing motion blur (less smearing). They sell expensive TV's and monitors, so saving a few bucks is not the reason. Decreasing appearance of motion smearing is the reason that PWM is still used by Samsung. There's definitely a small percentage of the population that's effected by PWM and many monitor makers are pushing non-PWM as a marketing gimmick. I went from a BenQ non-PWM monitor to the Samsung and I prefer the Samsung over the non-PWM monitor as I'm not affected by PWM. However, this notion that PWM is bad and evil in and of itself and that it causes motion blur is spurious and is being pushed by those with an agenda.
 
shaolin95 said:
The problem is either way you go there WILL be a compromise and no matter how they try to spin it, the Sony 830 series has HORRIBLE contrast and pathetic black levels and not amount of BS excuses they come up with will be able to fix that. You can clearly see how bad they are.
Now whether that is less important to you than other factors is a different thing and I can understand having choices and some people picking one over the other but for them to say those are the holy grail and the Samsuns are crap is just plain stupid but hey, the internet is here for everyone so we all can do our own research and not just follow one or two persons on faith. ;)
Click to expand...

Exactly. You get it. Nothing is perfect, particularly in the display arena where you often give up one thing to gain another. I'm fine with other people presenting information and choosing products based on their own personal criteria, but when you're intolerant towards others for steering away from your recommendations because they prefer other criteria, it's pretty silly.

I'd rather have an immersive 40" 4K than a ROG Swift but I don't call people who want a bleeding fast gaming display idiots. I prefer my Kawasaki over a Harley but I don't mock HD owners for buying their bike of choice. Even if they try to argue that theirs is "better", it doesn't affect me so why should it matter?

Moving on...
 
imyourzero said:
Exactly. You get it. Nothing is perfect, particularly in the display arena where you often give up one thing to gain another. I'm fine with other people presenting information and choosing products based on their own personal criteria, but when you're intolerant towards others for steering away from your recommendations because they prefer other criteria, it's pretty silly.

I'd rather have an immersive 40" 4K than a ROG Swift but I don't call people who want a bleeding fast gaming display idiots. I prefer my Kawasaki over a Harley but I don't mock HD owners for buying their bike of choice. Even if they try to argue that theirs is "better", it doesn't affect me so why should it matter?

Moving on...
Click to expand...

Indeed! This should be so simple yet some people just dont get it. Is like in my case, I love my Acoustic Grand Piano and will never consider buying an electric but I understand than in some cases for some people, the Electric ones will make more sense so who am I to say those not buying Acoustics are stupid? :)
Yep moving on.. :D
 
Cyph said:
And you know what else is funny? He claims that PWM causes motion blur which I don't believe is true. Motion blur is a result of LCD sample and hold technology and its response rate. Non-PWM has an awful smearing blur, whereas PWM has a different blur with less smear. PWM decreases the affect of the smearing effect, not increase it.

Lightboost is a technology that mimics CRT-like PWM strobing to decrease motion blur. I don't buy the notion that Samsung uses PWM because they cheap out. PWM is superior in decreasing motion blur (less smearing). They sell expensive TV's and monitors, so saving a few bucks is not the reason. Decreasing appearance of motion smearing is the reason that PWM is still used by Samsung. There's definitely a small percentage of the population that's effected by PWM and many monitor makers are pushing non-PWM as a marketing gimmick. I went from a BenQ non-PWM monitor to the Samsung and I prefer the Samsung over the non-PWM monitor as I'm not affected by PWM. However, this notion that PWM is bad and evil in and of itself and that it causes motion blur is spurious and is being pushed by those with an agenda.
Click to expand...

Nightingale007 said:
No, that is not what he claims. You have misinterpreted what he has said, just pointing that out.
Click to expand...

To expand on what Nightingale is saying, I am FAR from an expert but I don't want to take what NCX said out of context. I believe he claims that "PWM ruins motion clarity" or something to that effect. Not necessarily that it causes motion blur, which is inherent to the technology as you pointed out. Something about how when the PWM rate isn't synced to the refresh rate (which would be ideal) it causes artifacts that affect motion clarity.

He and Nikyo have posted a lot about it and I saw a post from another random member the other day that basically said the same thing (I believe that it was something he noticed on a display that he had purchased). The thing is...even if this is a thing, I'm fine with it. I'll live with it because my display excels in other areas that matter more to me. I've never had a problem with blur or motion clarity on my JS9000, but those guys claim that ANY display that uses PWM is unusable trash and that this is inexcusable in 2015. That's the problem that I have. For someone to tell me that the product is flawed (which I'm OK with because nothing's perfect), and that it's worthless due to that flaw, and that I'm a dolt for not being bothered by that flaw and continuing to use the product instead of recognizing the flaw and selling it for something else.

I prefer VA gamma shift to IPS glow, but some will argue day and night about how gamma shift is the worse of the two and that IPS is superior in every regard because of it. Glow be damned. It's not a big deal! I should put up with inferior blacks and contrast because someone else says that VA gamma shift is a dealbreaker. Got it.

Just frustrates the hell out of me. Let us enjoy what we enjoy, geez.
 
Nightingale007 said:
No, that is not what he claims. You have misinterpreted what he has said, just pointing that out.
Click to expand...

What is motion blur? Non clarity of motion is motion blur. The smearing effect is not motion clarity which is caused by non-PWM monitors. I interpreted as the same, even if that's not the exact words he used.

I'm open to the definition of what "motion clarity" is.
 
shaolin95 said:
A quick search for him and his now student from the other thread clearly shows this so I hope people do their own homework and not just blindly follow his "recommendations". ;)
Click to expand...

I would like to add that in alot of respects he is completely right, PWM does introduce motion issues, the clarity is just not as good and it does indeed cause health issues for some people.

If neither of those things bother you then yes, his recommendations won't matter to you. I find his reviews very helpful and when I look at a display , he covers what I need to know about them.
 
coolhandm3 said:
I would like to add that in alot of respects he is completely right, PWM does introduce motion issues, the clarity is just not as good and it does indeed cause health issues for some people.

If neither of those things bother you then yes, his recommendations won't matter to you. I find his reviews very helpful and when I look at a display , he covers what I need to know about them.
Click to expand...

The problem with his "recommendations" is that he blows things out of proportion when is something he does not like and goes to ridiculous extents to minimize clear issues like the previously mentioned horrible contrast and black levels in spite of all the evidence just because for him that is not as important.
I think that is the biggest issue people have with him and his gang.
 
Cyph said:
What is motion blur? Non clarity of motion is motion blur. The smearing effect is not motion clarity which is caused by non-PWM monitors. I interpreted as the same, even if that's not the exact words he used.

I'm open to the definition of what "motion clarity" is.
Click to expand...

What happens with PWM when cycling(under 100% brightness) is it causes motion artifacting. I have a Philips 40" 4K display that uses PWM that cycles at a higher rate Hz than the samsung's and I still noticed the effect @60% brightness.

Here I took this right from blur busters.

PWM
pursuitcam_pwm.jpg

Do you see how the image has multiple repetitions of itself.

Now here is an example of your typical motion blur due to sample and hold effect with some minor ghosting.
pursuitcam_ghosting.jpg


Notice the difference. The PWM example causes the ghosting trails to fragment

For anyone with a PWM monitor, click this LINK

It's a test that runs on your browser from blur busters. Set your monitor or TV to 100% brightness and watch the line move horizontally a few times and while in the middle of observing this, start turning down your brightness and you will begin to see the line start to form multiple repetitions of itself. So is essence the ghosting is now comprised of multiple trails of itself , as you will note it splits the ghosting up. This in turn causes a weird effect that reduces motion fluidity when gaming. I notice this very easily when i am moving down streets with electrical wires and corridors etc....
 
Throw in some slow pixel response times (16ms or so) and you're in for a good time. :)
 
Nightingale007 said:
What happens with PWM when cycling(under 100% brightness) is it causes motion artifacting. I have a Philips 40" 4K display that uses PWM that cycles at a higher rate Hz than the samsung's and I still noticed the effect @60% brightness.

Here I took this right from blur busters.

PWM
pursuitcam_pwm.jpg

Do you see how the image has multiple repetitions of itself.

Now here is an example of your typical motion blur due to sample and hold effect with some minor ghosting.
pursuitcam_ghosting.jpg


Notice the difference. The PWM example causes the ghosting trails to fragment

For anyone with a PWM monitor, click this LINK

It's a test that runs on your browser from blur busters. Set your monitor or TV to 100% brightness and watch the line move horizontally a few times and while in the middle of observing this, start turning down your brightness and you will begin to see the line start to form multiple repetitions of itself. So is essence the ghosting is now comprised of multiple trails of itself , as you will note it splits the ghosting up. This in turn causes a weird effect that reduces motion fluidity when gaming. I notice this very easily when i am moving down streets with electrical wires and corridors etc....
Click to expand...

Interesting.


I've never noticed a problem on my JS9000, but maybe that is because it has the improved PWM that tries to mimic a sine wave
 
Zarathustra[H];1042006782 said:
Interesting.


I've never noticed a problem on my JS9000, but maybe that is because it has the improved PWM that tries to mimic a sine wave
Click to expand...

Test your JS9000 on the link i provided above.
 
Nightingale007 said:
What happens with PWM when cycling(under 100% brightness) is it causes motion artifacting. I have a Philips 40" 4K display that uses PWM that cycles at a higher rate Hz than the samsung's and I still noticed the effect @60% brightness.

Here I took this right from blur busters.

PWM
pursuitcam_pwm.jpg

Do you see how the image has multiple repetitions of itself.

Now here is an example of your typical motion blur due to sample and hold effect with some minor ghosting.
pursuitcam_ghosting.jpg


Notice the difference. The PWM example causes the ghosting trails to fragment

For anyone with a PWM monitor, click this LINK

It's a test that runs on your browser from blur busters. Set your monitor or TV to 100% brightness and watch the line move horizontally a few times and while in the middle of observing this, start turning down your brightness and you will begin to see the line start to form multiple repetitions of itself. So is essence the ghosting is now comprised of multiple trails of itself , as you will note it splits the ghosting up. This in turn causes a weird effect that reduces motion fluidity when gaming. I notice this very easily when i am moving down streets with electrical wires and corridors etc....
Click to expand...

BOTH have motion artifacts due to slow pixel response of LCD. None are better than the other. The improved backlight of the 7 series and up alleviate motion artifacts as shown via low PWM. However, the smearing of non-strobing backlight is not "better." They are both bad, but it's up to the preference of the individual which they prefer.
 
Cyph said:
BOTH have motion artifacts due to slow pixel response of LCD. None are better than the other. The improved backlight of the 7 series and up alleviate motion artifacts as shown via low PWM. However, the smearing of non-strobing backlight is not "better." They are both bad, but it's up to the preference of the individual which they prefer.
Click to expand...

Come on Cyph, be reasonable here. First off that is a sample pic of 1 frame which in of itself is rather self explanatory. The artificating caused by PWM is much worse when seen in motion. Just accept what the science proves. If it doesn't bother you that's your prerogative, but don't try and play it off as if it's not a negative by claiming both are in essence artifacts so by virtue it's a preference.

I have no agenda here, since all my PC displays as well as my new 40" 4K all employ PWM. DC dimming is superior and should be mandatory for any display being used as a PC monitor IMO.
 
Nightingale007 said:
Come on Cyph, be responsible here. First off that is a sample pic of 1 frame which in of itself is rather self explanatory. The artificating caused by PWM is much worse when seen in motion. Just accept what the science proves. If it doesn't bother you that's your prerogative, but don't try and play it off as if it's not a negative by claiming both are in essence artifacts so by virtue it's a preference.

I have no agenda here, since all my PC displays as well as my new 40" 4K all employ PWM. DC dimming is superior and should be mandatory for any display being used as a PC monitor IMO.
Click to expand...

So did you read the link I posted up there that shows that SCIENCE behind strobing to eliminate the "apparent" appearance of motion blur? Don't confuse your opinion with facts.

Do you own a Samsung or are you just trolling? The 6 series has bad PWM blur. I admit that, which is why I returned it. The 7 series and up are much better. I'm sure the JS series are even better. Maybe the JS owners can step in and tell us how horrible the PWM artifact are.
 
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