New Samsung 4k for everyone.

Yeah, mine also. Slovakia QC sux. As I said I have one dusty pixel and my main electronics board have slight buzz (don't exactly know if the others have it too) when I put my ear to it (static buzz from time to time, not all the time). So yes...this sets costs a lot, but looks like they are made really cheap.. just unbeliveble. Electronic market in last years suck big time in terms of build quality.
 
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Frode B. Nilsen said:
What do you need 10-bit for?

The current electronics just barely handles 444-chroma for 8-bit, and almost any feature of the TV is simply utterly broken for 444-chroma. Since the TV has broken electronics or firmware, what would the benefit from 10-bit be?

Also, the panels all suffer from uniformity issues, resulting in color inaccuracies. Why would you ask for greater accuracy, as by adding bits, to a panel that simply would kill any such added accuracy?
Click to expand...

hahaha..."broken"...no "uniformity" issues here...your posts could use some "uniformity"...hahaha
 
El-Dubya said:
lol, who pissed in your cheerios this morning? Did I say I needed 10 bit? No. All I wanted was a simple yes or no and/or proof to satisfy my curiosity. I'm happy with the set as is, but if you have some chip on your shoulder then that's your thing. Question still stands to anyone kind enough to answer.
Click to expand...

I needed to buy a HDMI converter ($100 including shipping) to be able to install an Operating System (OS), and to enter the BIOS. Then I need to use a $900 DSLR with a $400 lens, to be able to figure out how to adjust the TV. Only to end up with a real need for a $200 calibration tool, if I need accurate colors and sharp rendering. That is how badly this thing is broken.

You may ridicule that as much as you want, but it simply will not change those facts. Those are real issues. What you are asking for is silly in comparison. Completely useless. If you got my post at all. A complete derailing of any usability logic what so ever.

DarkStar02 said:
I have this problem with my JU7500 except mine doesn't turn off, it restarts. The screen will go black randomly for ~10 seconds and then come back on and all the applications I had open will be shrunk in the top left corner. I have no idea what is causing it but it can be really annoying in the middle of a firefight in BF4. :p
Click to expand...

This happens to me, when the flat is hotter than 30 degrees. Seems like a heat issue.

Disabling soft power and returning to stock settings, seemed to help quite a bit.

The software probably have issues with memory leakage, as text get color shadows after long periods with soft power. Fixed by a magical reboot.

So, everything hints of a heat issue. It makes sense to pay attention to where that external box is placed, as of heat.
 
is that a reason to get a new display, with the tv heat issue?
mine is getting off and on especially when i play, but it doesn't happent with another monitor
i thought the gpu is damaged, or cpu, ram, mainboard, psu, hdd, sdd, but everything seems to be okay when I use another monitor
 
New firmware update for my UN48JU6700F (1403). Whether it's now HDMI 2.0a compatible is anyone's guess...

I'll probably never know because my Smart-apps never seem to work. They always lock up regardless of how many times I reset the TV.:(
 
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Jeez. All these problems people are reporting. Guess I'll be holding off until next year's sets. I almost bought a UN48JS9000 back when it was $1999 with all kinds of promos attached. Now at $2300 and all the uncertainty, I think it's a good thing I waited. Maybe I'll wait for Pascal too, at this rate...
 
z0ne said:
As I know all the JU7*** have 8bit panels. 10bits are equipped with quantum-dots, feature just for SUHD.

p.p. My JU7500 runs fine when I used it (in the small time - up to 3 hours per day)
Click to expand...

Thanks for that z0ne, kinda thought as much.

Frode B. Nilsen said:
I needed to buy a HDMI converter ($100 including shipping) to be able to install an Operating System (OS), and to enter the BIOS. Then I need to use a $900 DSLR with a $400 lens, to be able to figure out how to adjust the TV. Only to end up with a real need for a $200 calibration tool, if I need accurate colors and sharp rendering. That is how badly this thing is broken.

You may ridicule that as much as you want, but it simply will not change those facts. Those are real issues. What you are asking for is silly in comparison. Completely useless. If you got my post at all. A complete derailing of any usability logic what so ever.
Click to expand...

As I said, this is a set I can be happy with some time, and if that doesn't fit with your agenda here tough. Look it's real easy, "useless" questions or not (from anybody), if it bothers you...move along (yeah it's that easy), but I can tell you're gonna make a lot of friends here so I'll just leave you to the "ridiculing."
 
El-Dubya said:
Thanks for the response Killahurtz.

A member over at EVGA forums had this to say on the subject:

"HDMI 2.0 does not support 4:4:4 10 bit color at 2160p at 60hz. Secondarily, pretty much every game (Alien Isolation being the sole exception I can think of) out there and almost all applications(excepting some image processing programs) use a 8 bit pallet including Windows."
http://www.hdmi.org/manuf.../hdmi_2_0_faq.aspx#146

So if that's the case I guess that sucks (if it even makes a noticeable difference). Still, Istill wonder if anyone could answer my second question:

Was it determined that the 7000 series have 10-bit panels, and if so does that mean they are capable of a 10-bit 1.07 billion color palette or is that still reserved for the SUHD TVs?
Click to expand...


That makes sense. I don't know how much that "sucks" though. I mean 8 bit is the industry standard. Just about every screen out there, with the exception of a few very high end professional models are going to be 8 bit.

In fact, most consumer video cards won't even output above 8 bit in Windows.


If "not better than everything else out there" = "sucks", then that seems like a pretty high standard to me :p
 
El-Dubya said:
I did a quick forum search, but didn't find an update to this yet. For those running their TV off an nvidia gpu (970 or above), are any of you given an option yet (in the latest drivers) to choose anything above 8 bits per channel for color depth output?

Also, was it determined that the 7000 series have 10-bit panels, and if so does that mean they are capable of 10-bit 1.07 billion color palette or is that still reserved for the SUHD TVs?
Click to expand...

Yeah, so to add to my post above, even if HDMI 2.0 supported this at the full resolution, in it's consumer video cards Nvidia blocks anything above 8bit output in it's windows drivers. Only Quadro-type professional video cards support 10bit output.

The hardware all supports it, but it is blocked in the drivers. Nvidia has chosen to differentiate their cards this way.
 
ForgedReality said:
Jeez. All these problems people are reporting. Guess I'll be holding off until next year's sets. I almost bought a UN48JS9000 back when it was $1999 with all kinds of promos attached. Now at $2300 and all the uncertainty, I think it's a good thing I waited. Maybe I'll wait for Pascal too, at this rate...
Click to expand...

mine works impeccably...for what that is worth
 
Zarathustra[H];1041907867 said:
Yeah, so to add to my post above, even if HDMI 2.0 supported this at the full resolution, in it's consumer video cards Nvidia blocks anything above 8bit output in it's windows drivers. Only Quadro-type professional video cards support 10bit output.

The hardware all supports it, but it is blocked in the drivers. Nvidia has chosen to differentiate their cards this way.
Click to expand...

Nvidia drivers support higher than 8 bit now on consumer cards.
It cannot be enabled if the device you are connecting doesnt support though.
 
Resolution: 3840x2160

Total pixel count per frame = 3840*2160 = 8294400

8 bits per channel, 3 channels, thus 24 bits (no point in sending alpha channel to monitor, right?)

8294400 * 24 bits = 199065600 bits per frame

Since we have 60 frames per second, we multiply the above to get the bits per second.

Bits per second @ 60hz = 11943936000

Divide by 1024^3 and we have 11.12Gbps

Old HDMI Cables were 10.2Gbps, thus we need HDMI 2.0 and the new 18Gbps cables for 4k @ 60hz


The problem is, if we do the same math above, but up the bits per channel to 10, the total required bandwidth is only 13.9Gbps, well under the 18Gbps capability of HDMI 2.0, so it seems like something else might be at foot here.

This does suggest that if the screen supports 10bit output, and the gpu and drivers support it, HDMI 2.0 shouldn't be the weak link...
 
^ one of the reasons why i posted. Someone had mentioned they had 10 bpc option now in the control panel for their "Over 1 Billion colors" Samsung monitor and I was wondering if this option was available (and properly implemented) on the SUHD sets.

The 7000 series I heard some time ago had a 10-bit panel, but there was a lot of misinformation then so just wanted to be sure. Of course, whether any of this makes any difference or not, I'd simply like to know from a technical standpoint. ^Thanks to everyone who looked into this.
 
Zarathustra[H];1041907898 said:
Interesting. When did they change this?
Click to expand...

I spotted it a year or 2 back.
The setting is now available on the same page as "change resolution".

My AV system supports up to 12bit and allows me to change between 8bit and 12bit.
If I select one of my displays which are 8bit only, it only shows 8bit.
 
El-Dubya said:
^ one of the reasons why i posted. Someone had mentioned they had 10 bpc option now in the control panel for their "Over 1 Billion colors" Samsung monitor and I was wondering if this option was available (and properly implemented) on the SUHD sets.

The 7000 series I heard some time ago had a 10-bit panel, but there was a lot of misinformation then so just wanted to be sure. Of course, whether any of this makes any difference or not, I'd simply like to know from a technical standpoint. ^Thanks to everyone who looked into this.
Click to expand...

If a 4K screen connected via HDMI is capable of 10bits+/colour, this will have to be below 4K res because there isnt enough bandwidth on a HDMI 2.0 connection to support higher than 8bit at 4K.
It will take the next gen HDMI 2 to allow it.
 
Nenu said:
If a 4K screen connected via HDMI is capable of 10bits+/colour, this will have to be below 4K res because there isnt enough bandwidth on a HDMI 2.0 connection to support higher than 8bit at 4K.
It will take the next gen HDMI 2 to allow it.
Click to expand...

Well, I just did the calculations (see below) and I don't see any reason why the bandwidth should be the problem.

10 bits 3 channels at 60hz 3840x2160 is 13.9Gbps according to my calculations. HDMI 2.0 supports up to 18Gbps...

Zarathustra[H];1041907895 said:
Resolution: 3840x2160

Total pixel count per frame = 3840*2160 = 8294400

8 bits per channel, 3 channels, thus 24 bits (no point in sending alpha channel to monitor, right?)

8294400 * 24 bits = 199065600 bits per frame

Since we have 60 frames per second, we multiply the above to get the bits per second.

Bits per second @ 60hz = 11943936000

Divide by 1024^3 and we have 11.12Gbps

Old HDMI Cables were 10.2Gbps, thus we need HDMI 2.0 and the new 18Gbps cables for 4k @ 60hz


The problem is, if we do the same math above, but up the bits per channel to 10, the total required bandwidth is only 13.9Gbps, well under the 18Gbps capability of HDMI 2.0, so it seems like something else might be at foot here.

This does suggest that if the screen supports 10bit output, and the gpu and drivers support it, HDMI 2.0 shouldn't be the weak link...
Click to expand...
 
greyx said:
is that a reason to get a new display, with the tv heat issue?
mine is getting off and on especially when i play, but it doesn't happent with another monitor
i thought the gpu is damaged, or cpu, ram, mainboard, psu, hdd, sdd, but everything seems to be okay when I use another monitor
Click to expand...

Try adding some active cooling, like letting a fan blow air across the external box. Also, make sure that the air cooling your TV is not pre-heated by for example a PC.

I used to have altered contrast, color tone, sharpness, or brightness, and got random black blinking issues. After reverting to default for all of these, and lowering the backlight, this has yet to occur again. And kill that soft power off, if you have not yet.

Hope that was of any help.

If you are able to reduce or kill the problem, please let us know what the fix were.
 
Zarathustra[H];1041907954 said:
Well, I just did the calculations (see below) and I don't see any reason why the bandwidth should be the problem.

10 bits 3 channels at 60hz 3840x2160 is 13.9Gbps according to my calculations. HDMI 2.0 supports up to 18Gbps...
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, I forgot about the +8bits padding from 24 to 32bit colour that is already transmitted.
10bits per colour should be possible but not 12.

Soz, missed your earlier post covering that :)
 
Nenu said:
Oh yeah, I forgot about the +8bits padding from 24 to 32bit colour that is already transmitted.
10bits per colour should be possible but not 12.

Soz, missed your earlier post covering that :)
Click to expand...

Yeah, the alpha channel is for transparency/blending, but the data sent to the screen will never need that. If they are sending the alpha channel to the screen, that is just silly, and might be an area for reduction of bandwidth use in the future :p
 
Zarathustra[H];1041907954 said:
Well, I just did the calculations (see below) and I don't see any reason why the bandwidth should be the problem.

10 bits 3 channels at 60hz 3840x2160 is 13.9Gbps according to my calculations. HDMI 2.0 supports up to 18Gbps...
Click to expand...

Not according to this guy.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-hdmi-q-one-connector-world/1523994-hdmi-2-0-cedia-webinar.html

He actually lists that 99% of the bandwidth available is being used. (2160/60p 4:4:4)

His listing is higher than DP 1.2 bandwidth, but this seems to be legit. Also hdmi.org list the same feature set, just not the bandwidth.

LL


Another source:

http://hometheaterreview.com/what-you-need-to-know-about-hdmi-20/

DVDO-HDMI-chart-thumb-650xauto-13942.jpg


The numbers I find online are all identical with these.
 
Quadro 2000 - HP Z800 Workstation

seems to only recognize up to 1920x1080p but 12 bpc shows up

Quadro%203.png
 
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Frode B. Nilsen said:
Not according to this guy.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-hdmi-q-one-connector-world/1523994-hdmi-2-0-cedia-webinar.html

He actually lists that 99% of the bandwidth available is being used. (2160/60p 4:4:4)

His listing is higher than DP 1.2 bandwidth, but this seems to be legit. Also hdmi.org list the same feature set, just not the bandwidth.

LL


Another source:

http://hometheaterreview.com/what-you-need-to-know-about-hdmi-20/

DVDO-HDMI-chart-thumb-650xauto-13942.jpg


The numbers I find online are all identical with these.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I would like to see what their calculations look like.

As long as I have remembered, uncompressed image data has been number of pixels X bit depth.

Add in motion, and we also add refresh rate.

Could it be a horrendous level of overhead in the HDMI specification?

Are they assuming 5.1 channel audio and ethernet carried at the same time? Since we are using these for display output only, we should be able to use all the bandwidth for the image only, unless there are artificial barriers in the HDMI spec.
 
z0ne said:
Who said we have HDR? You mean for JU7*** or ? With newest update 1411?
Click to expand...

JU7xxxx with the 1403. I assume we should have some level of HDR/HDMI 2.0a support as of this release, since they released the PR early last month and said it would be available for all 2015 model UHD sets "Now".
 
Cool thanks for the info. Which models also have DIRECT backlight like the JU7500?
 
I assume the only way to test HDR right now is with M-GO's Vidity's stuff. But no way in hell am I going to pay $30 to fool around with that. I'd probably have to pay $65 on top of that to buy a certified hard drive and I'm not going to waste my money on it, not for my 48" display anyways.
 
I called again Samsung service, and i told them the issue with the screen ( turns off - on, randomly ) and Friday someone is coming to see what he can do.
You think he will replace the tv mainboard ? What can cause the heat issue ?
The mainboard is getting too hot / tv power supply ??
 
Zarathustra[H];1041908126 said:
Interesting. I would like to see what their calculations look like.

As long as I have remembered, uncompressed image data has been number of pixels X bit depth.

Add in motion, and we also add refresh rate.
Click to expand...

;)
Check this document (from Extron Electronics website)
http://www.extron.com/download/files/whitepaper/extron4k_wp.pdf
At page 6 , it has a calculation sample.

4K Data Rate Calculator (from Extron Electronics website)
http://www.extron.com/product/videotools.aspx
Remember switch to advanced mode, it will show a timing diagram.

You have to include H-Blank , V-Blank and TMDS 8b/10b encoding overhead when calculate the total bandwidth.
 
z0ne said:
Who said we have HDR? You mean for JU7*** or ? With newest update 1411?
Click to expand...

Wag said:
JU7xxxx with the 1403. I assume we should have some level of HDR/HDMI 2.0a support as of this release, since they released the PR early last month and said it would be available for all 2015 model UHD sets "Now".
Click to expand...

Wag said:
I assume the only way to test HDR right now is with M-GO's Vidity's stuff. But no way in hell am I going to pay $30 to fool around with that. I'd probably have to pay $65 on top of that to buy a certified hard drive and I'm not going to waste my money on it, not for my 48" display anyways.
Click to expand...

I purchased my 48" 9000 from B&H about 2 months ago. They had a deal about a month ago where they offered a 32"Samsung 1080P TV and the New WD cinema drives. I called them, and they sent me the items for free. I love B&H! The Hard drive comes with HDR movies pre-installed and you can activate 2 pre selected for free on M-go's website. I watched a little bit of Exodus God and Kings in full HDR. It does definitely look incredible as far as the picture clarity. Is it a huge difference over regular 4k? No, but it does look better then Netflix 4k content. 30$ a pop for HDR 4k movies though is a bit steep, not to mention there are only a handful of available titles, and the majority of them are pretty lame....
 
Island said:
I purchased my 48" 9000 from B&H about 2 months ago. They had a deal about a month ago where they offered a 32"Samsung 1080P TV and the New WD cinema drives. I called them, and they sent me the items for free. I love B&H! The Hard drive comes with HDR movies pre-installed and you can activate 2 pre selected for free on M-go's website. I watched a little bit of Exodus God and Kings in full HDR. It does definitely look incredible as far as the picture clarity. Is it a huge difference over regular 4k? No, but it does look better then Netflix 4k content. 30$ a pop for HDR 4k movies though is a bit steep, not to mention there are only a handful of available titles, and the majority of them are pretty lame....
Click to expand...

I know the 9000 series supports HDR, it's meant to, I'm just wondering if the JU7xxxx series does with the latest firmware update and how good it is without quantum pixels and direct backlight.
 
Just got my JU7500 last night and it's sweet. Probaly the best over all monitor I have ever used. Extremely happy with it. This will be a keeper till a 40 inch oled drops. 40 inch is about the limit I personally would want on a desk. Works well for me since I'm over 6 foot tall the center of the screen is pretty much level with my eyes. Black levels on this thing crush my 21:9 lg I'm coming from, the 29 inch one. Huge upgrade. Input lag dosent seam bad so far but I didn't get a chance to play any FPS games yet.
 
Wag said:
I know the 9000 series supports HDR, it's meant to, I'm just wondering if the JU7xxxx series does with the latest firmware update and how good it is without quantum pixels and direct backlight.
Click to expand...

Count only the "quantum dot". We have direct backlight (7500). JS7000 even has QD + Direct. It's not as dense as JU9500, but I think is better than JS9000 which is EDGE lit.
 
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