New Samsung 4k for everyone.

[Lateralus]

Agree fully. imyourzero is overreacting, to call out the board over our 6700/7500 comments due to his own issue not being able to see our consensus, even with the help of the absolutely clear rtings test, is ridiculous.

Lost all credibility to me by going back and quoting the "night and day" stuff, from people that were trying to help him, and everyone else, with our extremely accurate synopsis on the issue. He's in the ignore drawer now with AgentF and NCX heheh. Don't have the time.

And for some never-had-the-money-to-buy-anyway window shopper (Grotok) to chime in and claim he's now going to "pass" due to imyourzero and Nitemare's ridiculous thoughts the past day, despite hundreds of postivie "OMG" reviews, is even more hilarious...yeah guy, you go ahead and wait, because you're a truly sharp shopper.

Meanwhile each of us is in absolute heaven to the point were we're hardly posting any more due to being so busy enjoying the displays.

Thread is pretty much settled now, the Samsungs have been determined by the group to be the singular best line of 4k displays at their pricepoint at the moment for our particular PC needs. All we do now is sit back, enjoy our wondrous 4k experience, and wait for firmware update releases (and drama) to occur haha.

Holy cow, dude...close-minded much? I never "called out the board" over anything. I was disappointed when my experience didn't line up with that of you, Brahmzy, Cyph, and anyone else who noticed a big improvement going to the 7xxx series. I even asked if maybe I was missing something that you guys did regarding a menu setting or something, and I said that maybe my single early test of comparing ghosting in Batman: AC might be insufficient to reveal the true differences. Never called you guys liars or anything like that. And those guys have been courteous to me and have provided suggestions to try and be helpful.

Look at the conversation history over the past few posts, You were generally equally as helpful until you told me that no one said that there was a big difference between 6xxx and 7xxx regarding the blur/ghosting and I proved otherwise. Now you're butthurt and want to tune me out. That says a lot, really. God forbid I have a different take on things. I'm trying to get to the bottom of things in order to help prospective buyers and current 6xxx owners. You just want to stick your fingers in your ears.

Remember...you were the one just a few days ago who agreed with WorldExclusive when he said that $450 was not worth a reduction in blur. You even called the blur issue overblown. You also said the blur fetish was a nit pick and that you weren't one to pick that nit. You kept talking about how much of an improvement the 6700 was vs. your older monitors and that the $450 would be better spent on another Titan X rather than the pursuit of less blur. It's all right there for everyone to see, assuming you don't edit your posts.

Look, I'm glad that you're enjoying your 7500. I am, too. I'm just not blown away by the difference vs. my 6700. Our experiences were different. Nothing wrong with that. And I'm not so immature that I'm going to stop talking to someone just because they disagree with me. I'm honestly flabbergasted at your reaction to me and Nitemare just because our experiences differed from yours. Are you a teenager or something?

Go get your blanky and enjoy your 7500; this thread won't miss you. The rest of us will be checking in to further try and help people by contributing to a mature discussion.

 

[pvc]

I just got the UN48JU7500 from Crutchfield, and I’m really loving it so far! (I’m coming from a Benq BL3200PT.)

I do have one issue though: Whenever I turn the TV off (with the remote) while my PC is still on, and then I turn the TV back on, it reverts to 4:2:2. So I either need to restart my PC, or go into NVIDIA Control Panel and set the “Digital color format:” to RGB and then back to YCbCr444.

Does anyone else have this problem? Or am I missing something?

Edit: Firmware version is 1209

Mine does that when device type is DVI PC but not when it is PC.

 

[Masejoer]

The only issue I've noticed so far, which didn't affect the other two, is that my windows get resized when I turn it on after it's been off.

I have that issue on a JU6500 also.

 

[Cyph]

Everyone should calm down. I think this goes back to the fact that humans are different, with different taste and preferences. Person A is not going to have the same experience as person B. Take into account that preconceived notions and prejudice plays into it as well.

Also interpretations of someone else's written experience could be magnified. I'm content with the improvement. Like I said, that 450 means different things to different people. For some, they expect more for the money. If all you want is a monitor, then purchase the 6700. If you want to use it for other purpose, get the 7500. If you find a better 4K monitor than this, let me know, I'll return this and buy that one. Just don't tell me about a magical non-ghosting 144hz 4K monitor that's not available. Be realistic and temper your expectations.

 

[Nitemare3219]

Just adding input again on the 7500 vs 6700 debate. $450 for blur reduction alone is not worth it unless the 6700 is down right muddy to look at.

Again, the 6700 was described on AVS as the barebones TV, with the 7500 being high-end, short of the SUHD series. The 7500 gets you better TV features overall. Better motion clarity as its a true 120 Hz panel, which can be used for 120 Hz in 4K, though with expected input lag for a TV. The Ultra Clear Pro panel which doesn't distort the image at all like even a semi-matte will (probably negligible, but worth mentioning). The 7500 has woofers along with the standard 2x10W speakers for better sound. The 7500 can run at 24 Hz to avoid juddering when watching film - a pretty big deal if you ask me. The 7500 does 3D and comes with a pair of glasses. Those things to me are worth the $450, and there may be even further differences.

 

[Nenu]

I just got the UN48JU7500 from Crutchfield, and I’m really loving it so far! (I’m coming from a Benq BL3200PT.)

I do have one issue though: Whenever I turn the TV off (with the remote) while my PC is still on, and then I turn the TV back on, it reverts to 4:2:2. So I either need to restart my PC, or go into NVIDIA Control Panel and set the “Digital color format:” to RGB and then back to YCbCr444.

Does anyone else have this problem? Or am I missing something?

Edit: Firmware version is 1209

Have you tried leaving it in RGB mode?
You shouldnt have to use ycbcr.
RGB should be 4:4:4, just remember to change it from 16-235 to 0-255.

 

[Mako360]

Just adding input again on the 7500 vs 6700 debate. $450 for blur reduction alone is not worth it unless the 6700 is down right muddy to look at..

And I will add again that in my opinion the $450 may be worth it if you prioritize motion blur as one of your most detested visual artifacts. And even then it's dicey, you need to view them yourself to really lock it down.

In a perfect world we all do A/B comparos and decide what's right for each of us.

Also worth noting, as Cyph has a few times, if you ever plan on pressing the display into TV duty, or plan on watching 4k video content, the upgrade to 7500 is also worth the additional cost for the increased amount of tweaking/features/120Hz/3D/etc that it offers. Those may be important to you. They weren't to me as I have no plans on watching much video content on the display, but if you think you can use them then by all means take that step.

 

[Nenu]

If you will keep the display for a long time and intend on using it a ton, get one you will really appreciate.
ie $450 over 5 years isnt much if it makes you happy for hours and hours every day for 5 years.
mho

 

[Mako360]

I have that issue on a JU6500 also.

Fast tip, multiple people with 4k sets on a few message boards have confirmed this specific one works. Worth a shot if you run into window re-sizing a lot and it bothers you:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HDMI-adapte...946?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43db36de22

 

[Zektor144]

Have you tried leaving it in RGB mode?
You shouldnt have to use ycbcr.
RGB should be 4:4:4, just remember to change it from 16-235 to 0-255.

Thanks. I'll give that a try.

Edit: Nope, that didn't work either.

 

[Matthew Kane]

It will break down within warranty.

 

[Brahmzy]

Man I'm loving this thing. Can somebody please do another PWM test on a 7500 w/ fw1209?
I swear PWM is better, don't know how else to explain it. I'm sure a test will prove me wrong...

 

[Cyph]

I just got the UN48JU7500 from Crutchfield, and I’m really loving it so far! (I’m coming from a Benq BL3200PT.)

I do have one issue though: Whenever I turn the TV off (with the remote) while my PC is still on, and then I turn the TV back on, it reverts to 4:2:2. So I either need to restart my PC, or go into NVIDIA Control Panel and set the “Digital color format:” to RGB and then back to YCbCr444.

Does anyone else have this problem? Or am I missing something?

Edit: Firmware version is 1209

I think this was a bug introduced in 1209. Wait for the next firmware fix.

I'm not seeing any "ghosting" in Windows Desktop. What's going on?

 

[Cyph]

Thanks. I'll give that a try.

Edit: Nope, that didn't work either.

Just tested it on mine. Still 4:4:4 and YCbCR.

 

[Lateralus]

Man I'm loving this thing. Can somebody please do another PWM test on a 7500 w/ fw1209?
I swear PWM is better, don't know how else to explain it. I'm sure a test will prove me wrong...

It would seem that all of the PWM testers are busy enjoying their units.

I too would be interested in knowing if there is a difference in PWM between 6700 and 7500, or any improvement to the PWM via the various firmwares. I'm not sure if that's something that would be adjustable, or locked down by the electronics.

Glad you're (ba da ba ba ba) lovin' it now, though!

 

[praxis219]

Fry's was out of stock of 7500, so I just got my 3rd replacement 6700. History: #1 from Crutchfield was cracked, #2 from Crutchfield had a random .2 sec backlight flicker every few minutes while warming up, and this one is from Fry's, which just got them in stock last week. The serial number is much higher, and holy cow, the image quality on this unit is so much better than the previous one.

I'm using the exact same wallpaper -- the right edge of the wallpaper is pretty dark, and on the last unit thought that it fades to almost black. On this unit, nope, I can vividly see all the details of the rockface. This is a HUGE difference, and I didn't know what I was missing out. I'm actually happy that the 2nd unit had the flicker problem, because I would've been missing out tremendously. Now looking at the monitor, the lighting on the left side of the panel is better, too. In fact the unit is way better in terms of overall brightness uniformity. I don't mean light bleed, either... even on black screens the last one didn't really have that. This one just looks so much more vivid on the same wallpaper, areas of the sky that light up are gorgeous.

So it's either
a) Panel lottery
and/or
b) The newer production run is better.

Looking at this unit gives my eyes a visual feast compared to the last one... I'm extremely happy right now.

Previous unit last part of S/N started with: 2005
Current unit last part of S/N started with: 3002

Both were running firmware 1209.

 

[Brahmzy]

It would seem that all of the PWM testers are busy enjoying their units.

I too would be interested in knowing if there is a difference in PWM between 6700 and 7500, or any improvement to the PWM via the various firmwares. I'm not sure if that's something that would be adjustable, or locked down by the electronics.

Glad you're (ba da ba ba ba) lovin' it now, though!

Yeah, I think it'd be next to impossible to change PWM with firmware, but after 1207, I just don't seem to be having the same issues I was having. It has to be that I've gotten used to it, which really makes no sense either.
All I know is I need some more GPU horsepower now! Wonder if a single Titan X would be enough for awhile. 30% more than my 980 supposedly. That's significant, but then, not really, at twice the cost. How over lockable are the Titan Xs? Because my 980 OCs pretty well.

 

[Cyph]

I realized that I set my HDMI level to LOW. It makes color and black pop. For those using HDMI Normal, try it on LOW and let me know if it doesn't make everything look better.

 

[Lateralus]

Yeah, I think it'd be next to impossible to change PWM with firmware, but after 1207, I just don't seem to be having the same issues I was having. It has to be that I've gotten used to it, which really makes no sense either.
All I know is I need some more GPU horsepower now! Wonder if a single Titan X would be enough for awhile. 30% more than my 980 supposedly. That's significant, but then, not really, at twice the cost. How over lockable are the Titan Xs? Because my 980 OCs pretty well.

Not sure how well the Titan X overclocks, but I ended up going SLI 980s for less than the cost of 1 Titan X. As you can imagine, this comes with its own set of pros and cons. Advantage - I'm getting higher frame rates in SLI-supported games than a single X for less money. Disadvantage - 4GB memory cap (unless Direct X 12 comes through with its promise of stackable VRAM) and possible SLI issues. But I haven't run into any dual card issues yet.

I guess you have to decide if the HUGE price premium of a Titan X is worth ~30% more performance from where you are now. It's for sure the better long term bet...but I plan on rocking dual 980s until the prices come down. I should be good for a while.

I realized that I set my HDMI level to LOW. It makes color and black pop. For those using HDMI Normal, try it on LOW and let me know if it doesn't make everything look better.

It absolutely does. This has been mentioned a few times, and is worth bringing up again. There is a huge difference between Normal and Low. Go with Low.

 

[cleiomar]

I realized that I set my HDMI level to LOW. It makes color and black pop. For those using HDMI Normal, try it on LOW and let me know if it doesn't make everything look better.

HDMI low is limited RGB 16-235 and normal is full RGB 0-255. Make sure you're not crushing detail by setting it to low and outputting full RGB in nvidia control panel.

 

[Cyph]

HDMI low is limited RGB 16-235 and normal is full RGB 0-255. Make sure you're not crushing detail by setting it to low and outputting full RGB in nvidia control panel.

This post says that Samsung, "low" is full range.

Edit: Another one: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/63-rear-projection-units/1003951-samsung-hdmi-black-level-setting.html

It makes sense that low is full. When you set RGB to 16-255, it defaults to auto. Changing to low doesn't make any difference. Setting to 0-255, low actually changes the contrast and black. Low is 0-255 not the other way around.

Edit 2: It looks like HDMI Low sets the contrast higher. Changing to Nvidia settings rather than "other applications," at 50, the blacks are brought back. So I'm not sure which is which. However, the blacks aren't crushed as the black details return once I switch over to Nvidia settings. "Normal" definitely makes everything washed out though.

 

[Masejoer]

Yeah, I think it'd be next to impossible to change PWM with firmware, but after 1207, I just don't seem to be having the same issues I was having. It has to be that I've gotten used to it, which really makes no sense either.

Previous year models had pwm controlled by software, which could be updated with firmware. The other hardware may not take kindly to a higher frequency in the long run though.

 

[coolhandm3]

This post says that Samsung, "low" is full range.

Edit: Another one: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/63-rear-projection-units/1003951-samsung-hdmi-black-level-setting.html

It makes sense that low is full. When you set RGB to 16-255, it defaults to auto. Changing to low doesn't make any difference. Setting to 0-255, low actually changes the contrast and black. Low is 0-255 not the other way around.

I realized that I set my HDMI level to LOW. It makes color and black pop. For those using HDMI Normal, try it on LOW and let me know if it doesn't make everything look better.

Your crushing black detial running full rgb from the GTX to the tv in low. Go check the smpte test if you dont think so. I had many tvs isf calibrated and normal on the samsung is for full range rgb. Low with a pc set to full rgb will crush blacks. Just tried it on mine and it crushed blacks...

Yeah, I think it'd be next to impossible to change PWM with firmware, but after 1207, I just don't seem to be having the same issues I was having. It has to be that I've gotten used to it, which really makes no sense either.
All I know is I need some more GPU horsepower now! Wonder if a single Titan X would be enough for awhile. 30% more than my 980 supposedly. That's significant, but then, not really, at twice the cost. How over lockable are the Titan Xs? Because my 980 OCs pretty well.

I have a single Titan X and it runs all my games at 4k maxed out at 60fps or higher, only game so far that struggles to get a constant 60 is crysis 3. Also I run woth no aa.

 

[Brahmzy]

Serious can somebody test PWM on their 7500 with firmware 1209? I'd be very grateful - I don't think I have what's required to run the test. I turned off auto update too. I'm in a very happy place right now, lol.

 

[Lateralus]

Fry's was out of stock of 7500, so I just got my 3rd replacement 6700. History: #1 from Crutchfield was cracked, #2 from Crutchfield had a random .2 sec backlight flicker every few minutes while warming up, and this one is from Fry's, which just got them in stock last week. The serial number is much higher, and holy cow, the image quality on this unit is so much better than the previous one.

I'm using the exact same wallpaper -- the right edge of the wallpaper is pretty dark, and on the last unit thought that it fades to almost black. On this unit, nope, I can vividly see all the details of the rockface. This is a HUGE difference, and I didn't know what I was missing out. I'm actually happy that the 2nd unit had the flicker problem, because I would've been missing out tremendously. Now looking at the monitor, the lighting on the left side of the panel is better, too. In fact the unit is way better in terms of overall brightness uniformity. I don't mean light bleed, either... even on black screens the last one didn't really have that. This one just looks so much more vivid on the same wallpaper, areas of the sky that light up are gorgeous.

So it's either
a) Panel lottery
and/or
b) The newer production run is better.

Looking at this unit gives my eyes a visual feast compared to the last one... I'm extremely happy right now.

Previous unit last part of S/N started with: 2005
Current unit last part of S/N started with: 3002

Both were running firmware 1209.

Can you share that wallpaper with us?

 

[Cyph]

GTX 970/980 are starting to be discounted. That means out with the old and in with the new... It's happening!

 

[Wag]

HDMI low is limited RGB 16-235 and normal is full RGB 0-255. Make sure you're not crushing detail by setting it to low and outputting full RGB in nvidia control panel.

Unfortunately I don't have this setting on mine. I have to download this patch. I have to run it every time I install a new set of drivers.

I'm still waiting for the 980ti/390x to be released before I upgrade. With 3 Titans it doesn't make much sense for me to go Titan X.

 

[Nitemare3219]

Not sure how well the Titan X overclocks, but I ended up going SLI 980s for less than the cost of 1 Titan X. As you can imagine, this comes with its own set of pros and cons. Advantage - I'm getting higher frame rates in SLI-supported games than a single X for less money. Disadvantage - 4GB memory cap (unless Direct X 12 comes through with its promise of stackable VRAM) and possible SLI issues. But I haven't run into any dual card issues yet.

I guess you have to decide if the HUGE price premium of a Titan X is worth ~30% more performance from where you are now. It's for sure the better long term bet...but I plan on rocking dual 980s until the prices come down. I should be good for a while.



It absolutely does. This has been mentioned a few times, and is worth bringing up again. There is a huge difference between Normal and Low. Go with Low.

Don't go with low as mentioned below. Also, hate to say it man, but if you're gaming in 4K those 4 GB are going to hurt you. That's why I waited for something better.

This post says that Samsung, "low" is full range.

Edit: Another one: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/63-rear-projection-units/1003951-samsung-hdmi-black-level-setting.html

It makes sense that low is full. When you set RGB to 16-255, it defaults to auto. Changing to low doesn't make any difference. Setting to 0-255, low actually changes the contrast and black. Low is 0-255 not the other way around.

Edit 2: It looks like HDMI Low sets the contrast higher. Changing to Nvidia settings rather than "other applications," at 50, the blacks are brought back. So I'm not sure which is which. However, the blacks aren't crushed as the black details return once I switch over to Nvidia settings. "Normal" definitely makes everything washed out though.

Low is not full range. I don't have anything changed in NVIDIA CP, and even when I do, nothing seems to change - weird.

Your crushing black detial running full rgb from the GTX to the tv in low. Go check the smpte test if you dont think so. I had many tvs isf calibrated and normal on the samsung is for full range rgb. Low with a pc set to full rgb will crush blacks. Just tried it on mine and it crushed blacks...

I wondered why blacks looked "crushed" - lack of detail in some blacks? They all blend together as black, correct? HDMI normal definitely "washes" stuff out (kind of fix this with color setting to increase saturation - but even with this it feels like a gray haze is over the screen!)

In Evolve, I was adjusting the gamma and could barely see the circle/paw which has never happened before. I had to set it really high to BARELY see it. So I compared shots with setting and LOW/NORMAL as well as a screenshot from GTA 5. The leaves in the screenshot lose all detail in certain spots from being entirely black on LOW, but the detail comes back in NORMAL. A bit hard to see on my camera, but still noticeable.

LOW:

NORMAL:

LOW:

NORMAL:

NORMAL:

LOW (look at leaves):

Just did some more tests and it is very obvious that LOW crushes blacks and oversaturates colors. If you like the oversaturated look, just increase the "color" option in picture options (only available in game mode). LOW also made whites look whiter, but to fix that just set contrast to 100 if it isn't already.

NORMAL:

LOW (transparent white menu box disappears):

LOW:

NORMAL:

LOW:

NORMAL:

LOW:

NORMAL:

Bear in mind my color saturation is set to 65 in these screenshots, so blue, magenta, and red are all a bit "crushed" still... but it's made even worse with LOW.

Also asked a chat rep and they said NORMAL was 0-255 and low 16-235.

 

[Lateralus]

Don't go with low as mentioned below. Also, hate to say it man, but if you're gaming in 4K those 4 GB are going to hurt you. That's why I waited for something better.

There will always be something better. I went from a single 970 to two 980s, so the difference is outstanding. I won't remain on this setup forever. All of the VRAM doomsayers can rest easy. Like I said much earlier, I'll ugprade when I feel that my experience suffers. When things start hitching or bogging down, I'll evaluate options at that time.

Also, you guys are right! Black level set to Low crushes blacks. Black level set to Normal reveals more detail in dark areas...but so far I prefer the darker, more saturated/contrasty look vs. the gray haze. I know that I'm missing out on some detail, but I find that it's great for dark/gritty games where deep blacks add to the experience. Luckily it's easy to switch back and forth, and between the display menu, nVidia control panel, and in-game settings...there are a plethora of options that you can tweak to get things dialed in.

Keep sharing the good info!

 

[Nenu]

I wondered why blacks looked "crushed" - lack of detail in some blacks? They all blend together as black, correct? HDMI normal definitely "washes" stuff out (kind of fix this with color setting to increase saturation - but even with this it feels like a gray haze is over the screen!)

Recalibrate the display.
I use this site.
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/

 

[Nitemare3219]

I'll check into that. Right now my focus is on something else...

I felt like I was feeling a lot of input lag recently, most likely since the firmware update, so I pulled out my Catleap and hooked it up. I compared the Catleap to the BenQ I had (which I sent back yesterday, so I can't compare with that anymore). The two had practically equal response times.

If you check my post back on page 10, the 7500 vs the BenQ, the two were about the same... maybe half a frame difference, and that appeared to be the same in both PC MODE and GAME MODE - weird right?

GAME MODE:

Notice any difference? Because I don't.

Now, I ran the same test but this time with the 7500 vs the Catleap, both running at 2560x1440. Considering the BenQ and Catleap had equal response times, this test should be equivalent. The 7500 is lagging behind by at least 1 frame... looks to me like a frame and a half. I can feel the floaty mouse on the 7500 whereas the Catleap is a lot smoother and faster - both at 60 Hz. The 7500 was in game mode in the first two shots, and DVI/PC mode in the third.

Thoughts...?

 

[Masejoer]

Recalibrate the display.
I use this site.
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/

Agreed - I had great contrast using 0-255. Some youtube videos are only uploaded with 16-255 so I compensate for those via the nVidia Control Panel to make them look better, but I see the full range of colors in any source that is done right.

I've found that many sources look too bright when the TV is setup correctly (youtube videos mentioned above), but I know that my display IS setup correctly. The source is always the issue when I have contrast problems. On older displays with worse contrast, bad sources tended to look better due to the limitations of the display I would be using. Faults in a source are more visible with these tvs, or OLED.

Just another case where people like to blame something other then themselves and/or sources

 

[coolhandm3]

I'll check into that. Right now my focus is on something else...

I felt like I was feeling a lot of input lag recently, most likely since the firmware update, so I pulled out my Catleap and hooked it up. I compared the Catleap to the BenQ I had (which I sent back yesterday, so I can't compare with that anymore). The two had practically equal response times.

If you check my post back on page 10, the 7500 vs the BenQ, the two were about the same... maybe half a frame difference, and that appeared to be the same in both PC MODE and GAME MODE - weird right?

GAME MODE:

Notice any difference? Because I don't.

Now, I ran the same test but this time with the 7500 vs the Catleap, both running at 2560x1440. Considering the BenQ and Catleap had equal response times, this test should be equivalent. The 7500 is lagging behind by at least 1 frame... looks to me like a frame and a half. I can feel the floaty mouse on the 7500 whereas the Catleap is a lot smoother and faster - both at 60 Hz. The 7500 was in game mode in the first two shots, and DVI/PC mode in the third.

Thoughts...?

I did input lag numbers with my leo bodnar for 1004, 1206, 1207 and 1209 firmwares. Input lag went down in game mode, pc mode went up.

Its great you spent the time taking these photos but the leo bodnar is far more consistant and accurate and most sites use it now.

Again, if you feel more lag in game mode after the firmware update it is one of two things: you didnt turn on game mode, or you did and didnt turn off dynamic contrast and turn off smart led or two... its all in your head.

 

[Nitemare3219]

I did input lag numbers with my leo bodnar for 1004, 1206, 1207 and 1209 firmwares. Input lag went down in game mode, pc mode went up.

Its great you spent the time taking these photos but the leo bodnar is far more consistant and accurate and most sites use it now.

Again, if you feel more lag in game mode after the firmware update it is one of two things: you didnt turn on game mode, or you did and didnt turn off dynamic contrast and turn off smart led or two... its all in your head.

So using settings like dynamic contrast and such adds post processing time? I figured it did but wasn't sure. Those two settings are OFF for me, but it seems like SMART LED is still in-use. For instance, when I close a full-screen application and the screen goes black... it really goes BLACK. The backlight shuts off until something comes on screen. That is smart LED, correct? It seems like it's still on, and even in PC mode it does this.

Can you confirm if yours does or not?

And yes I know the pictures can come out slightly different. But a single frame cannot lie. The 7500 is slower than the Catleap is now. And I can FEEL it and SEE it side-by-side. I need to figure out why.

EDIT: Better yet, someone please save this image below, open it with some image viewer (Windows is fine) just make sure it's absolute full-screen with no title bar, etc. When I do this, mine flashes the back light on/off at a moderately paced fading manner. It will flash on, then fade to black. Flash the backlight back on, and fade to black... It does this in game mode, but not PC mode. PC mode will fade to black when closing/alt-tabbing full screen applications though.

http://cdn5.howtogeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Plain-Black-Wallpaper.png

EDIT 2: Also, I just discovered something pretty great that I mis-reported before. If you can tolerate the standard TV lag (non-game nor PC mode), then using Auto Motion Plus can actually produce a picture that looks the same as game mode enabled, but at 120 Hz. I messed up previously by not having the HDMI black level reported properly causing the appearance of washed color, and when I disabled game mode to test it before, sharpness increased to 50 making the image distorted. So, it is possible to use Auto Motion Plus with the same color quality as game mode (and PC mode when gaming) and the same perfect sharpness of 4K. This is probably most ideal in game where twitch reactions aren't necessary (such as RTS) or third person games where you aren't shooting all of the time (could be viable in GTA, etc.) The input lag is worth the trade off for clarity to me in those situations. 4K 120 Hz is beautiful.

 

[Grotok]

Bestbuy had the 40JU7100 in stock, decided to try it to see if I could tolerate the blur/ghosting. I'll post impressions and/or screenshots later. I haven't updated the firmware yet, I'll try and do a before and after comparison. Unfortunately, it'll be limited to videos/pictures with my iphone. If there are any requests, let me know.

 

[Nitemare3219]

Bestbuy had the 40JU7100 in stock, decided to try it to see if I could tolerate the blur/ghosting. I'll post impressions and/or screenshots later. I haven't updated the firmware yet, I'll try and do a before and after comparison. Unfortunately, it'll be limited to videos/pictures with my iphone. If there are any requests, let me know.

Be careful when you setup the TV the first time. Hurry to the menu and goto Support > Software Update > Auto Update OFF. Also report the firmware the TV ships with. This way, you can do a before/after with the TV not updating itself. Hopefully it won't download the update before you manage to do this (it's a large file, about 1.5 GB). But as long as you keep the TV simply turned on either way, it won't update.

The best way to look at the ghosting issue is dragging a white window (like Notepad) around on your desktop. It became very evident to me when I was dragging it across desktop icons. You can kind of see it with text too. Test movement at different speeds to see what is most evident to you. If you can take burst shots with your camera (usually by holding the button down), then it'll be a lot easier to capture a decent frame with the effects. If you can do one before/after firmware update, that'd be great.

 

[Grotok]

Be careful when you setup the TV the first time. Hurry to the menu and goto Support > Software Update > Auto Update OFF. Also report the firmware the TV ships with. This way, you can do a before/after with the TV not updating itself. Hopefully it won't download the update before you manage to do this (it's a large file, about 1.5 GB). But as long as you keep the TV simply turned on either way, it won't update.

The best way to look at the ghosting issue is dragging a white window (like Notepad) around on your desktop. It became very evident to me when I was dragging it across desktop icons. You can kind of see it with text too. Test movement at different speeds to see what is most evident to you. If you can take burst shots with your camera (usually by holding the button down), then it'll be a lot easier to capture a decent frame with the effects. If you can do one before/after firmware update, that'd be great.

I skipped setting up wireless, it shipped with 1004.

 

[Nitemare3219]

I skipped setting up wireless, it shipped with 1004.

Cool. Well, try to compare the feel of the mouse and such to your previous monitor (which was?). Game mode color is going to suck without that firmware update, but what you're after right now is lag. See if you can tell a difference between that and when you have the source set as a PC (hit source, down arrow, edit device type).

Also, if you could test that black image for me full-screen and see if it turns off the backlight in any of the modes, before and after the update, I'd appreciate it.

 

[Agent00F]

Previous year models had pwm controlled by software, which could be updated with firmware. The other hardware may not take kindly to a higher frequency in the long run though.

It would be very unusual in electronics of this sophistication for it not to be "SW" controlled. The only question is how easy it is to change, whether it's just one value somewhere or somehow intertwined w/ some other logic. Also unless it's of poor design something like 1khz isn't exactly pushing anything.

The correct solution would've been to use higher pwm freq for PC mode, and maybe even matched freq to panel fresh in game mode for those looking for pwm motion tracking artifacts. It can be really surprising how people who ostensibly do this for a living don't figure this simple stuff out (same thing in camera SW, etc).

 

[Agent00F]

So using settings like dynamic contrast and such adds post processing time? I figured it did but wasn't sure.

Anything which processes the frame live will necessarily add time. This isn't really the case with with dynamic contrast because it can be done post-hoc (which it has to be to some extent or otherwise some scene transitions will be wrong).

From the numbers it seems this TV like many more or less has a "processing ON" vs "OFF" mode with ~100ms difference, not some sequential compounding effect. Frankly if that's not obvious when fiddling with a setting, then it doesn't matter.