New Samsung 4k for everyone.

Discussion in 'Displays' started by seanclayton, Mar 1, 2015.

  1. coolhandm3

    coolhandm3 Limp Gawd

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    I just checked with the leo bodnar and changing device type to game doesnt do anything.

    Pc mode is 36ms when uhd is off, when you turn it on it goes up to 44ms, so turning on 4:4:4 raises the lag in pc mode. Again use dvi/pc as device type for lowest lag and 4:4:4.

    I also tried all of the hdmi inputs, all turned back the exact same numbers.

    As for the 1209 update, I still dont feel the chroma test brown fox looks that great, compared to pc mode for 4:4:4. Text is readable but not great on that test, some letters like N's got better but others got a little worse.

    Still hoping Samsung updates game mode to have 4:4:4 and the input lag doesnt increase by doing it.

    I also checked and pc games are passing 4:4:4, I can clearly see this in pc mode with certain colors like blue and red, red being the most apparent.
     
  2. cleiomar

    cleiomar n00b

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    Can't seem to get 4:4:4 working with the input set to DVI PC, only works when set to just PC.
     
  3. coolhandm3

    coolhandm3 Limp Gawd

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    Sorry, I just assumed uhd color on with dvi/pc would pass 4:4:4.

    Looks like the only option is pc mode for that right now.
     
  4. Cyph

    Cyph Gawd

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    I played some games last night and edited some photos in Photoshop. Nothing seems out of place. Do we have some photographic evidence of inferior colors on game mode? Since 1207, I'm not seeing anything different.
     
  5. coolhandm3

    coolhandm3 Limp Gawd

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    You using 1209? You see any difference to 1207? I didnt really see any type of significant difference.

    Text that is red in games you can see its sharper in pc mode.
     
  6. Leilong

    Leilong n00b

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    I'm currently thinking about picking up the 40ju7100 or 40ju7500 (coming from a BL3200pt). I have a gtx 970, so I won't be able to play the newest games at max resolution, but I plan on getting a titan x soon. So I guess my question to the current owners is, how is 1080p for games? I'm not the type to mind the lower resolution on a bigger screen, I used to play games on my 42" panasonic plasma w/o issue. I just know that lower resolutions look horrible on my benq. So I guess the better question is, how is the scaler? Sorry if this question has been asked before.
     
  7. pvc

    pvc [H]Lite

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    UN40JU6500 + 1209

    There is no difference between PC and DVI PC for me. Will post images once I get home.

    (Further corroborated by the fact that Game Mode is greyed out in both device type settinds).
     
  8. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

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    I see a quality difference between game and PC modes but the colors themselves seem about the same.
     
  9. cleiomar

    cleiomar n00b

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    Weird, game mode is not greyed out in DVI PC for me with JU6700 and 1209. Will try doing a reset to see if that changes anything.
     
  10. TDSlam720

    TDSlam720 Limp Gawd

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    I asked this probably 30-40 pages ago. Cyph I believe was kind enough to provide some feedback and pictures. 1080p scales nicely on this set from what I've read.
     
  11. TDSlam720

    TDSlam720 Limp Gawd

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    Alright so to recap:

    Game Mode: 21ms

    PC Mode UHD (4:4:4) OFF: 36ms

    PC Mode UHD (4:4:4) ON: 44ms



    Originally I was thinking the 4:4:4 was causing the 20ish ms lag difference between game mode and PC mode, but now it seems to only account for about 8ms of lag. Where's the other 15 coming from? What processing effect could cause that?
     
  12. Cyph

    Cyph Gawd

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    I'm not seeing much difference between game and PC mode. I'm sure there is, but I cannot see it. You say red is less sharp? Can you take pictures? I'm not seeing it.

    Scaler is excellent. I play in 1080P right now while I wait for 390x/980ti or TitanX if those two ends up no good. Edit: You can tell it's 4:1 pixel doubling in 1080P because when GPU scaling is turned off, 1080P is full screen whereas 1440P is letter boxed.

    The colors to me seem fine other than the 4:4:4 test which is not real world to me. I edited photos in Photoshop and have not noticed anything different. However, the 15ms has to be due to processing that makes PC mode look better. I can't attribute it to as just purely due to being in 4:4:4 chroma mode. I've noticed that these panels have superior quality than the other monitors and I think the video processing has something to do with it.
     
  13. zehoo

    zehoo Limp Gawd

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    Nice, you'll have to give some feedback on how the Aus version performs. I'm looking at grabbing a UA40JU6400 but I'm unsure atm. I may wait to see how other brands pan out and for prices to drop later in the year.
     
  14. pvc

    pvc [H]Lite

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    Let me check again then tonight. It was definitely greyed out on 1207. If 1209 has enabled game mode in DVI PC, that would be amazing news.
     
  15. vorpel

    vorpel Limp Gawd

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    Just got my side monitors in and setup last night. I still have some work to do (need to enable on-board video for the bottom right monitor).

    This the the 48" JU6700 flanked with stacked Dell U2414H's on either side. Running currently connected monitors on a single GTX 980. I will only be gaming on the Samsung (center). I took the 6700 off the factory stand and got the display lowered another 1 to 1.5 inches. Here is the mount I used - it is at it's lowest setting. Here are the side mounts for the stacked Dell's.

    Overall I'm very pleased with the setup. I'm looking forward to calibrating the displays and getting my 2nd and 3rd computers connected (top left and right monitors will be used, otherwise I can run all 5 from my main system). I also need to replace the monitor shelf and make one that fits this setup.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2015
  16. SlippinJimmy

    SlippinJimmy [H]Lite

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    Are any of you guys using 2 970s and getting decent framerates with most games?
     
  17. Brahmzy

    Brahmzy [H]ardness Supreme

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    Totally depends on your use of AA. Without AA I get consistent 60FPS on BF4 with my 980, which your 2 970s should destroy. AA pretty much kills framerates/VRAM on 4K.
     
  18. Lateralus

    Lateralus More [H]uman than Human

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    Got my 48JU7500 set up and updated to 1209. Will post gaming impressions later.
     
  19. Grotok

    Grotok n00b

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    No shipping damage from crutchfield? That may be where I have to order from, I can't find it locally.
     
  20. ctrlbrk

    ctrlbrk [H]Lite

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    For someone that is not gaming, what is the best way to power three of these monitors? If possible, with just one video card?
     
  21. Lateralus

    Lateralus More [H]uman than Human

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    Yup. Both my 48JU6700 and 48JU7500 arrived from Crutchfield in pristine condition. The 6700 shipped via regular UPS and came in the usual brown truck, while the 7500 was shipped via freight (a.k.a. UPS Supply Chain Solutions) and arrived in a large box truck.
     
  22. magic carpet

    magic carpet n00b

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    Did you try 3D games with nvidia 3D TVPlay?
    Is it stuck at 24Hz in 1080P frame packing?
    No way to get 2160p with 3D games... :(
     
  23. Seinfeld

    Seinfeld Limp Gawd

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    So when watching movies and using the browser etc, the lag is over 100 ms?

    Code:
    Samsung JU6500
    Input Lag: 26.5 ms
    With Interpolation: 117.5 ms
    Outside Game Mode: 118.1 ms
    Code:
    Samsung JU6700
    Input Lag: 27.8 ms
    With Interpolation: 116.0 ms
    Outside Game Mode: 116.5 ms
    
    Code:
    JU7100
    Input Lag: 26.1 ms
    With Interpolation: 116.1 ms
    Outside Game Mode: 127.9 ms
    http://www.rtings.com/info/input-lag-tvs
     
  24. Darwin32

    Darwin32 [H]Lite

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    That's a bit tricky since these TV's do not have display port connections, so the only way is HDMI 2.0, and the only HDMI 2.0 cards out there are GXT9XX and Titan X, all of which only have one HDMI 2.0 connection.

    Also there is no confirmed DP 1.2 to HDMI 2.0 adapter, DVI to HDMI 2.0 will also probably not work, and Intel IGP will only permit 4k@30 Hz I believe..

    Somebody will correct me if I'm wrong, but if above is all true, than you would actually need 3 cards to power 3 of these TVs... The cheapest, therefore GTX 960 (~200€/$), will do just fine.
     
  25. Ziran

    Ziran Limp Gawd

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    DVI-PC mode seems buggy. Do the following:

    1) Set to PC: 4-4-4
    2) Set to DVI-PC: 4-4-4
    3) Turn TV off
    4) Turn TV on: 4-2-2 (in DVI-PC)
    5) Set to PC: back to 4-4-4
     
  26. Nenu

    Nenu [H]ardened

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    It shouldnt need frame packing on HDMI 2.x.
    Frame packing was used to fit a 1/2 res per eye 3D signal down HDMI 1.x @ 60fps.
    HDMI 2.x has enough bandwidth to allow full 1080p per eye at 60fps.
     
  27. Wag

    Wag Gawd

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    What's people's streaming experiences like with the 4k smart apps?

    On my FIOS 75Mbps connection I can stream Netflix and YouTube 4k just fine but M-Go and UltraFlix native 4k content stutters like crazy. I wonder why?
     
  28. Cyph

    Cyph Gawd

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    Those numbers are probably no longer accurate. Lag shouldn't matter when watching movies as sound is synchronized so you won't notice anything..
     
  29. Mako360

    Mako360 Limp Gawd

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    Damn, forgot to try M-Go...

    YouTube/Netflix/Amazon 4k all good, 50mbps internet.

    But I will say that on my Roku 3 certain services are just worthless at certain times, like Vudu's HDX content (high bitrate 1080p) will run just fine during the day, but at night, during high demand times when everyone is punishing the service...here come the stutters.

    Will check out M-Go tonight, can't believe I forgot about that additional source of 4k content.
     
  30. Nitemare3219

    Nitemare3219 Limp Gawd

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    Got my 7500 setup today. Input lag does not feel bad at all, not really even noticeably worse than game mode, when using PC mode and 4:4:4. Very comparable to IPS. A lot of the input lag you all are noticing is because of V-Sync on the desktop. When running multiple displays, at least in my scenario, V-Sync turns off on the 7500. I think this is because of HDMI, as my two other DisplayPort monitors maintain V-Sync. I know this is it because I get tearing on the desktop when I try this, and the input lag is completely gone.

    So far, I love the display. It makes 4K shine where smaller ones really don't. It feels perfect in GTA 5 first person - the size of things from 2' away are realistic, especially when driving. I haven't played any other games yet, but GTA 5 is fantastic. I really thought I was going to want the 48" for TV duty, but I can't see myself using it in my current setup as a monitor. My desk is a little too high/chair too short, so with the 40" I am only at mid-level view of the display when sitting straight up. Slouching only makes it worse. I'm also kind of worried about color/contrast shift, and glow on blacks with a larger monitor. I can't really sit any further away with this desk, so I don't think 48" will work as well as 40". I may change my mind, but right now I think I need to stick with 40". Sucks though because I really want the 48" for use other than a monitor. In stores the 40" seemed small, but now that it's on the desk it's pretty massive.

    I did a slew of tests, but be advised I am running boxed firmware version 1006. I am a bit weary of upgrading as I don't have any issue with the PC mode input lag right now... but I am potentially having one issue with some strange lines running through certain colors. I might try an early firmware before the input lag went up if I can find it. Comparison monitors are the Acer 4K G-Sync TN and the BenQ IPS 4K BL3201PH. Anyway, onto some pictures.

    I was expecting better blacks. They are a lot better than IPS, but don't be expecting OLED levels here. I still feel like there is a "glow" when shifting viewing angles, and somewhat on the edges when viewed straight on. The first picture is worst case scenario, backlight 20, high ISO, etc. Second is a bit too optimistic, but there is pretty minimal backlight bleed.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    This is the line issue I was talking about. Look at the 100% bars - they have lines running through them. I also have this on my Chrome, Outlook, and soundcard taskbar icons but not on OneNote, TeamSpeak, or Task Manager. I think firmware might fix it, but as I said I'm holding off right this second. It may be the pixel structure, but I doubt it. My BenQ doesn't do this at all - it's solid blue (last picture).

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Standard looked great to me at first, but its white point is FAR too cool. Compare it with my pretty accurate BenQ, and you'll see. Warm 2 is damn close, but I prefer a little bit of coolness, so I'm using Warm 1.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Image comparison. Color is damn close between this VA and my IPS. IPS still wins by a hair in some situations, but it's very hard to discern a difference almost everywhere. I have no complaints using this VA panel, and I've used IPS exclusively for years. Your color setting (standard, warm, etc.) will affect saturation somewhat. Red seems unaffected, green somewhat, and blue a LOT.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    It kind of looks like color is slightly washed out in the upper corners. Even looking directly at the corner didn't change anything. You can kind of see this in the top of the lighthouse compared to the IPS.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Onto ATTEMPTING to compare lag between the panels. I used a variety of situations and hopefully they are accurate, but some things didn't make much sense. For instance, when comparing pictures I took comparing the IPS to the 7500 with game mode on and off, I couldn't tell a difference. The IPS is BARELY faster... not noticeable in 90% of my shots. Compared to a TN monitor though, the difference is very large - that is, unless V-Sync is OFF. With V-Sync off, the panel is as "fast" as a TN with V-Sync ON. With V-Sync on/off with both, it is a frame or two behind.

    I had to use a strange method to do this. I couldn't be bothered to move the TV to the left, so be aware that the pattern goes left to right, top to bottom. Some pictures are using extended desktop with the frames split between the displays. To compare, look where the split occurs (even though they are on the wrong sides). I had to do this to get V-Sync ON with multiple displays for HDMI. In the pictures where the displays are duplicated, V-Sync if OFF for the 7500 and ON for the other display (again, unavoidable - tried to fix it and couldn't.) I have taken hundreds of photos with my phone doing this, and they always produce 3 blocks (fading, full, filling). If there are more or less, then one panel is slower than the other.

    This is with game mode off, UHD color PC mode.

    BenQ IPS begins filling a block before the 7500 does:
    [​IMG]

    Most of the time though, they seem to be hand-in-hand with each other.
    [​IMG]

    7500 with game mode on, no real difference... can still be a hair slower:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    7500 (UHD PC Mode) V-Sync OFF vs Acer TN V-Sync ON
    7500 is a hair faster.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    V-Sync ON with both
    Acer is fading its last block, 7500 hasn't even started filling one yet. I'd say that's a 1.5-2 frame lag there?
    [​IMG]

    Acer has faded the block that the 7500 still has filled.
    [​IMG]

    7500 with game mode on
    Still lagging behind as much as before.
    [​IMG]

    7500 should be filling a block by now, but it isn't.
    [​IMG]

    Acer has 3 blocks on its screen, 7500 should have 0.
    [​IMG]



    Blur test. Here is the BenQ with normal overdrive:
    [​IMG]

    Acer:
    [​IMG]

    7500, doing a fantastic job:
    [​IMG]

    7500 running at 120 Hz using standard motion clear. It truly feels like a 120 Hz monitor fellas, it's AWESOME. But it has awful lag as it's in a normal mode, and doesn't have 4:4:4 chroma. It's a shame we can't overclock the refresh rate:
    [​IMG]

    Interesting artifacting I noticed when I had it in 120 Hz mode. Can't see this with your eye though, and keep in mind these are solid blocks turning on/off, so not real motion:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2015
  31. coolhandm3

    coolhandm3 Limp Gawd

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    These numbers are not accurate anymore. I posted the numbers already on the 1209 firmware. Game mode has gone down, pc mode has increased.
     
  32. Mako360

    Mako360 Limp Gawd

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    Wow awesome review Nitemare, good work!
     
  33. Lateralus

    Lateralus More [H]uman than Human

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    First off, awesome pics! Looks exactly like the 40" sitting next to the 48".

    Can you elaborate/clarify here? How did you get 120 Hz and what is standard motion clear? It looks like there are 4 options under the Picture Options that might seriously help with blur reduction, but that portion of the menu is grayed out for me on both PC and Game device types.

    Picture > Picture Options > Auto Motion Plus:
    • Auto Motion Plus
    • Blur Reduction
    • Judder Reduction
    • LED Clear Motion

    Can you enable any of those while using it as a monitor?

    Also, mine came with firmware 1004 or 1006 out of the box, and the menu felt seriously fast. It seems to be slightly less responsive after the update, but it might just be in my head.
     
  34. Cyph

    Cyph Gawd

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    Update us after 1209!
     
  35. rtangwai

    rtangwai [H]ard|Gawd

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    I see you took my advice :D

    Based on the distance you set between yourself and the monitors, do you think a row of 4x 24" 1080p monitors across the top are viewable?
     
  36. Seinfeld

    Seinfeld Limp Gawd

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    https://forums.geforce.com/default/...g-4-4-4-full-rgb-output/post/4505144/#4505144

    Seems that the last picture is scaled.
     
  37. pvc

    pvc [H]Lite

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    Yes, I just verified this and can replicate this. Can anyone else on the JU6500/6700 1209 try it too?
     
  38. Nitemare3219

    Nitemare3219 Limp Gawd

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    Sorry, I was too lazy to see exactly what it was called. You can't enable it in PC/monitor mode, nor in game mode. It has to be in standard "TV" mode. It is auto motion plus, and I set it to standard (though any setting should produce the safe effect on a PC I'd guess since it's not like a TV signal). The panel refreshes at 120 Hz even though it has 60 Hz worth of content. It just takes two frames and calculates the changes between them, then creates its own frame in-between if I understand how it works correctly. But trust me it is running at 120 Hz, and reviews/specs can back that up.

    My TV auto-updated to 1209 after I turned it back on from running errands. First thing I noticed that was different - GHOSTING. Bad. I've only been playing around on the desktop right now, but it is there in PC, game, and standard mode and I didn't touch anything. Haven't tried anything to get rid of it yet, but I think the firmware changed it and it's here for good or until they fix whatever they did. I am easily noticing it on the desktop when I drag windows over icons, but I'll show you guys an example below with image thumbnails since they're easier to see. Maybe I just didn't notice it before, but I sure noticed it immediately after this update...

    My "lines" in the blue blocks from my above pictures are gone, but are still present in the Chrome icon, etc.

    I also noticed game mode is now brighter than PC mode when they were the same before the update, despite equal settings. Game mode definitely has better colors and such. When looking at GTA 5 screenshots, I saw no noticeable difference in color or sharpness between the two modes, but I'll need still camera shots to be sure. I can see a slight difference in the blue sky of my desktop wallpaper though - some blotchiness in more spots than on UHD color.

    Is there no way to go back to an earlier firmware if you get the files?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  39. Nitemare3219

    Nitemare3219 Limp Gawd

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    Looked around more in-game with game mode vs PC mode, and they appear no different still. I actually prefer game mode because you can up the "color" option in picture settings, increasing saturation. This allows to close that hairline difference between VA and IPS color, or even surpass it!

    I did toy around with game and PC mode off, and auto motion plus. I recommend everyone at least try it. If you've never gamed at 120 Hz, this will pseudo do it for you. I gamed at true rendered 120 Hz for years, and I CAN'T tell any difference between that and the TV doubling the frame rate. It works so well it's amazing. What's more is that with auto motion plus on and v-sync off, I really didn't feel that much input lag. It's playable to say the least. Be sure your sharpness is at 0 though!

    ALSO! No matter what mode I'm in, when the screen goes black (closing full-screen games for example) the LEDs fade out and the screen goes entirely black. I'm not sure if that's the smart LED feature or what, but in PC mode everything is off, and it still does it. Not that it's a problem, but I find it weird so obviously some sort of processing is still going on.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2015
  40. Cyph

    Cyph Gawd

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    That's why sometimes the black is super black! That's local dimming that they're referring to, and when it works, it's blacker than my plasma.

    Also, you were able to confirm that it's internally 120hz? This would make sense why motion is superior on the 7 series. I wonder how much input lag there is if game mode and motion interpolation are both used? If it's under 50ms, it may be worth it for that 120hz feel of playing games.