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New Samsung 4k for everyone.
- Thread starter seanclayton
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PC mode: monitor on the left has 18ms lag. so adding the difference in the images yields 51ms lag.
This one is with game mode on. Pretty much can't tell the difference. and I can't seem to get another image as clear as the last one lol.
I'm curious did you update to the latest firmware? The Leo Bodnar results shows input lag as 36ms.
In the end, you have to make a decision based on what's important to you, if input lag is high on your list, the that's the decision you need to make.
WorldExclusive
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Please don't quote those numbers as fact.
What he quoted has actually been stated several times recently in this thread. Weather it is true or not I do not know, but multiple users have clarified it.
SixFootDuo
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several times? Huh? There are so many numbers being thrown around I can't keep track of anything. Who really can?
I swear to god everyone has a different number. Something is fcked.
I also don't trust numbers from random people simply because you don't know their agenda, how they tested, etc etc.
I swear to god everyone has a different number. Something is fcked.
I also don't trust numbers from random people simply because you don't know their agenda, how they tested, etc etc.
WorldExclusive
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Stated where? 19ms game, 51ms PC?
I'd notice the difference between the two, which is not my experience.
The numbers have been all over the place. Let's wait until we get a formal review.
Things are taken as fact very quickly. People will say "no buy" from a single forum post.
There are also 21ms (game mode) and 42ms (other modes) numbers which have been thrown around in this thread several times.
SixFootDuo
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I love how the guy says "around 51ms" ignoring all other reports that said 36ms. I mean, laughable. I've seen another thread that said 29ms. I saw a 40, I saw another 30, now we are creeping up to 50.
Give it a few days and we will see 60 and 70.
I've never seen anything like this on HardOCP in a thread. I am getting to the point where I just a need a video from a trusted unbiased source in a clinical settings period. Not some guys bedroom or basement with empty bags of Doritos at his desk side, Bawls bottles on his desk an a huge bottle of "lotion" next to his night stand.
This has become horsesht for sure.
Someone tell me what I am supposed to be experiencing first hand with latency because I can't see or feel anything on my 6500. And I am pretty damn sure since I work at home I have more gaming time than 90% of you.
8/10 Mythic in WoW ... zilch issues and I have literally tens of thousands of hours played. Don't even get me started on BF4 or anything else.
Give it a few days and we will see 60 and 70.
I've never seen anything like this on HardOCP in a thread. I am getting to the point where I just a need a video from a trusted unbiased source in a clinical settings period. Not some guys bedroom or basement with empty bags of Doritos at his desk side, Bawls bottles on his desk an a huge bottle of "lotion" next to his night stand.
This has become horsesht for sure.
Someone tell me what I am supposed to be experiencing first hand with latency because I can't see or feel anything on my 6500. And I am pretty damn sure since I work at home I have more gaming time than 90% of you.
8/10 Mythic in WoW ... zilch issues and I have literally tens of thousands of hours played. Don't even get me started on BF4 or anything else.
No I am not talking about the input lag number I am talking about what he quoted, that game mode only does 4:2:0 on the JU series and 4:4:4 PPC mode, but 4:4:4 game mode on the JS series.
Are people really returning a panel because of a set of number? Regardless of the lag, it appears that many are buying specs. Ultimately, each person is different. Does it look good to you? Do you see lag when you play your favorite game? Is the picture better than your previous monitor?
The person returning the monitor didn't even use it for anything productive. He jury rigged a set up, use a non high speed camera which has been proven to not be as accurate as Bodnar, SMTT, or oscilloscope methods. Monitors only update every 16.7ms in chunks of 16ms. He's returning it because he's convinced that it has lag. Never mind how it looks to his eyes or if he feels the affect of lag. That's buying specs, not a monitor. However, it's his money and he should do whatever he feels like. Regardless if its a good panel or not, it'd pointless to keep it if he perceives it to be bad. No need to jump on his decision. It doesn't invalidate yours.
The person returning the monitor didn't even use it for anything productive. He jury rigged a set up, use a non high speed camera which has been proven to not be as accurate as Bodnar, SMTT, or oscilloscope methods. Monitors only update every 16.7ms in chunks of 16ms. He's returning it because he's convinced that it has lag. Never mind how it looks to his eyes or if he feels the affect of lag. That's buying specs, not a monitor. However, it's his money and he should do whatever he feels like. Regardless if its a good panel or not, it'd pointless to keep it if he perceives it to be bad. No need to jump on his decision. It doesn't invalidate yours.
Can you post the link to this?
coolhandm3
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Ok...
First off the JS series does NOT do 4:4:4 chroma in Game mode, only in PC mode, please see these two reviews that clarify that:
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/ue65js9000-201503154027.htm
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/ue65js9500-201502234012.htm
Also HDTVtest uses the Leo Bodnar input lag tester, it is far more consistant then what others are using.
The Ju7500 has 21ms in game mode and 36ms in PC mode. We do NOT have numbers for the JU6500 yet, but going by what the other JS and JU tv's on their website scored with the Leo Bodnar I would be suprised if the JU6500 is much different number wise.
here is the review of the JU7500 with input lag numbers as-well:
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/ue48ju7500-201504074038.htm
SixFootDuo
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From everything I've read over the years, people can literally feel 40+ ms latency. Am I right?
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1041536297&postcount=1080
Ok sorry I was just going by what this guy said:
It depends on the person I guess. For those that can feel it and need it, their only option is the Phillips or Seiki with its host of other problems: ghosting, contrasty coloring issues, and image persistence. I think if input lag is #1 priority, they should be looking at those two or wait another year. Even then, they are gaining 16-20ms at most, not 40-50ms as the Phillips and Seiki have their own input lag as well. Is 20ms the difference between enjoying their games and not? Who knows.
The JS series cost 150% more so I'm not even going to go there.
I've returned the Acer S277, currently have the S32D850 and the BL3200 which I will return as well, and this panel which I will exchange for a 40". I can't tell the difference in input lag between the 32" and the 48", but I can tell the difference between the size, color, and clarity of this one. Also, the scaling on this TV is far superior to any computer monitor. It allows me to play 1080P as if it's a 1080P 40" monitor. I'm done searching unless the Phillips become available and somehow resolved its set of issues.
Also, can someone post screen shots of in game footage between 4:2:0 and 4:4:0 chroma? Is there a big difference or are we are just debating numbers?
Lateralus
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I'm pretty stinkin' sensitive to PWM, ghosting/blur and input lag.
I will be giving my impressions Friday evening. My Z30i is pretty fast on all of that, but yet it's still a big monitor, so it'll be interesting to see the diff.
I could care less about numbers at this point. I will know all of this as soon as I configure the JU6700 and fire up BF4 along with some basic productivity stuff.
If it's too slow for either, it'll be going back, and I'll give the JU7500 a try. If that's too slow, I guess I'm SOL for now.
I will be giving my impressions Friday evening. My Z30i is pretty fast on all of that, but yet it's still a big monitor, so it'll be interesting to see the diff.
I could care less about numbers at this point. I will know all of this as soon as I configure the JU6700 and fire up BF4 along with some basic productivity stuff.
If it's too slow for either, it'll be going back, and I'll give the JU7500 a try. If that's too slow, I guess I'm SOL for now.
So the 6500 is only semi-glossy? That's a bit disappointing. Was hoping for full on glossy color popping glass mirror type gloss
magic carpet
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Does JU7500 and JU7100 share the same specs, except for curved panel?
lol - that depends. I think I would pay up to $150 for a cable that would allow me to go back to having my main computer in the closet. I've been used to no computer noise in my office for the last 10 years, but I could get used to that if need be. It's the heat that I don't want, and solving that in another way is more expensive (vented enclosure for the computer to outside, etc).
I'm hopeful that the professional 22awg HDMI cable from Monoprice will work. It doesn't list any 4K compatibility, but it all comes down to how well the cable can keep the signal intact of that distance.
If you have any suggestions on 50' HDMI cables, please let me know!
Edit: Doh! I missed your link... You know somebody is just hoping there is an idiot out there that will buy it. So sad...!
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Lateralus
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I'm with you there. I don't care about noise so much, because my air purifier is much louder than my PC anyway. But now that winter is over, my little man cave is becoming rather warm.
vorpel said:
I don't know man, those 22AWG cables from Monoprice are pretty beefy. Did you order one of the Active cables, too? From what I understand, those are made for longer distances while using thinner cable. I have no idea how they compare to a thicker passive cable, but might be worth a shot.
Also, I've had great luck with Firefold cables in the past. Here's one that does claim 4K (i.e. "ultra high speed"), though I realize it's 26AWG.
Monoprice should really update their site. All of the bandwidth and resolution specs on their cables are dated. Maybe that's all they are guaranteed for, with a "YMMV" on more demanding applications.
The input lag is very noticeable in PC mode on this (damaged) display. If I place it next to my Asus with 18ms total display latency, span a small window across both and move it up and down really fast you can clearly see the samsu g lagging behind.
Yes I did update. Renamed the input to PC switched to PC mode for one test and game mode for another test.
Well, that's an unfair comparison. The Samsung has a higher input lag than the Asus. You know this going in. If you're going to be doing a side by side comparison, of course you would see the difference. I'm surprised that you're surprised to see that there's lag when you have the two monitors side by side.
That's why game mode is there if you need the lower input lag.
The best way to judge is turn off your Asus. Play with the Samsung by itself to see if the input lag affects you (I know, kind of hard when it's broken). You even said yourself that input lag is the same with game mode on. All the reviews states that PC mode is slower. If you want to use it for fast gaming, then game mode is what you want to use. Now, if with game mode on, the quality of the panel, color, etc. is worse than the Asus, that's a perfectly legitimate reason to return. Let me know your findings.
No 4K big screen panel is perfect right now at this price range. I think if you're looking for imperfection, you will find it.
Can you please post some pictures of the rear of the monitor to illustrate?
WorldExclusive
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Bravo. This pretty much sums up all of the questions and doubts.
It's a 60Hz 4K 40" screen with amazing 4:4:4 picture quality, Smart TV features, Curved/Flat, and good input lag numbers for $850-1150.
If that's not good enough this early in 4K Tech, then nothing will be good enough now or later.
Also, the TV upscales to near 4K quality is something to behold. TV looks like your at a stage play or on the set while they are shooting.
Here's another illustration of what I'm seeing here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbzUX8wa_jw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4CDEeVpYHA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbzUX8wa_jw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4CDEeVpYHA
Is anyone with a non-damaged display in a position to do a similar test? It would be really helpful to some of us who are on the fence.
In the first one, I see that two screens update slightly different from each other. I can't really tell which one is the faster one. Also, the size difference magnifies the issue, because the Samsung moves in bigger increments than the Asus. In the second, one, same thing, but it appears the the Samsung is faster?
The video quality is bad, but I can definitely tell you which one looks better though.
In the first one, I see that two screens update slightly different from each other. I can't really tell which one is the faster one. Also, the size difference magnifies the issue, because the Samsung moves in bigger increments than the Asus. In the second, one, same thing, but it appears the the Samsung is faster?
The video quality is bad, but I can definitely tell you which one looks better though.
Samsung is slower in both videos. watch the mouse.
WorldExclusive
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Slower at the same speed in Game and PC Mode. Can't tell the difference.
You didn't take my advice to try to game on it without the Asus next to it. Any two monitors with different input lag will look out of sync when next to each other. I suspect this issue will eat at you forever because input lag is obviously a huge concern for you. I suggest you return it.
Darthmullet
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Perhaps its more than superficial damage,
I just performed the same test, one window with a Youtube video playing spread between my 7ms Overlord Tempest and my 40" 6700 in PC Mode, I saw no difference whatsoever.
I have run no real latency tests, because I didn't feel the need to. Coming from a 120 hz 7ms input lag gaming monitor, I can tell a VERY slight difference in responsiveness between the two, and I suspect that is because of the refresh rate not input lag. After initial setup (designating HDMI 1 as a raw display, setting to PC mode, naming PC, setting GPU to 60hz) I proceeded to do a raid in WoW, play for several hours in Call of Duty, and Battlefield 4. I noticed nothing different or worse in regards to responsiveness or lag in either.
Perhaps I am not as sensitive to it as others, but I am quite happy with my 6700 from Crutchfield (undamaged)
I'm returning it because it's smashed. I was doing g a few tests to see if I want another one or not.
I also tried loading up a few games to see how it felt. I did notice some display lag. Not an issue for single player games but I'm betting a quake 3 pro would find it unplayable.
Darthmullet
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You're probably right. A FPS pro should be buying a 27" 144hz GSYNC monitor. If they're buying this for FPS pro gaming, the mistake started before the monitor even arrived.
The JS does 4:4:4 in Game mode. Here is a screenshot of my 65JS9000 in game mode with UHD color turned on through HDMI 1. Using a GTX 980 with a dual link dvi to HDMI cable.
http://cdn.overclock.net/1/16/16f8ee15_unnamed.jpeg
Unless, I'm wrong. Doesn't that screen shot show what we need to see?
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I can actually get game mode to say UHD enabled on HDMI1 with my JU6700. When you actually look at the image though, UHD isn't enabled.