New Samsung 4k for everyone.

Tyler-Durden

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Messages
2,302
I've just about settled on this as my next monitor. My question below may have been answered somewhere in the previous 126 pages, but I don't have time to read every one of them. So...

Are there any advantages of the JU7500 over the JU6700 that justify the extra $450?
 

Mako360

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 1, 2006
Messages
336
I agree with you 100% except there's 1 major flaw to your argument. There already is a "big, cheap, no PWM, 4k, low input lag, IPS viewing angle, VA contrast, no blooming, great uniformity, etc" monitor out right now. It's called the Philips BDM4065UC and it's what I and thousands of other people also own.

This Samsung technically only has 2 confirmed pro's to the Philips and brings 2 con's. From my personal preference/experience though, the Samsung has 4 pro's which makes me want to change to the Samsung from the Philips which are:

PRO: 48" Curved.

Phillips: Not offered.

And based on how you glossed over the MANY negatives that have been expressed in the Phillips thread, you obviously already made your choice.

My job isn't to sell you guy, the thread has already answered any comparison question you could dream up, and I could give a shit what you buy or keep. Best of luck.

I've just about settled on this as my next monitor. My question below may have been answered somewhere in the previous 126 pages, but I don't have time to read every one of them. So...

Are there any advantages of the JU7500 over the JU6700 that justify the extra $450?

Read the thread. You can do it bruh, I knowwwww how hard it is, omg omg omg so long! But it's a thousand+ dollar purchase amirite? So invest a little time and learn the way others learn. Also don't work for you either...so...Best of luck.
 

Q-BZ

Fully [H]
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
19,515
I've just about settled on this as my next monitor. My question below may have been answered somewhere in the previous 126 pages, but I don't have time to read every one of them. So...

Are there any advantages of the JU7500 over the JU6700 that justify the extra $450?

Check around post 1393 thereabouts and then again around 2245 thereabouts.

I used the thread search and got lucky. I've been lurking with interest in this thread. ;)
 

Cyph

Gawd
Joined
Mar 24, 2015
Messages
812
I agree with you 100% except there's 1 major flaw to your argument. There already is a "big, cheap, no PWM, 4k, low input lag, IPS viewing angle, VA contrast, no blooming, great uniformity, etc" monitor out right now. It's called the Philips BDM4065UC and it's what I and thousands of other people also own.

This Samsung technically only has 2 confirmed pro's to the Philips and brings 2 con's. From my personal preference/experience though, the Samsung has 4 pro's which makes me want to change to the Samsung from the Philips which are:

Pros:
1. Has a more glossy screen than the Philips (most people actually would hate this but I'm a glossy fan)
2. The screen has a slight curve to it which is much needed for such a large screen sitting close while the Philips doesn't.
3. This screen probably has a more vivid "wow factor" picture than the Philips due to my vast experience owning Samsung TV's (although the colors could theoretically be more unrealistic than the Philips)
4. The Samsung can be larger than 40" such as 48" unlike the Philips.

Cons:
1. The Samsung has PWM at any brightness unlike the Philips where is goes away at max brightness and also has double the PWM frequency.
2. The Samsung has more lag than the Philips in true 4:4:4 mode but theoretically the same in 4:2:2 mode (assuming another firmware doesn't botch it up again) ***This is what I'm trying to confirm before purchasing***

PWM affects only users with issues of PWM. Seinfeld reported he had headaches on the Phillips at 20 backlight no difference. So if you're sensitive to PWM, you're up the creek with both.

The Phillips was my first choice. You want me to list the cons?
1. Non squared pixel.
2. Image retention.
3. Dull colors.
4. Discoloration between contrasting solid colors. You were in the thread did you not remember? http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1838713&page=69
5. Dark hole with solid colors. http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1838713&page=70
6. Inferior uniformity.
7. Edit: crap scaler.

The same cheap TPVision panel is in every single 40" monitor on the market including Seiki and Crossover. Unless it's a firmware issue, it's on all of them.

Pros you conveniently left out for the Samsung:
1. Superior build quality. So far no one has mentioned a deformed monitor other than shipping damage. No one has mentioned dead pixels except for a hair under a panel I returned.
2. Superior warranty. Try and get someone to fix your Phillips Like the Samsung which was mentioned in this thread.
3. Superior video quality. No compression artifacts when watching videos.
4. Superior scaler. It is practically a native 1080P monitor.
5. Firmware support to add features, fix issues for up to a year.
6. quad core processor for improved image quality.
7. apps that extend the functionality of the TV.

All those extra processing causes lag, but the Samsung has a feature that elimates that lag for the gamers. Yet, here you are singularly focusing on input lag above all else. Buy what makes you happy... But if you're here to tell us Samsung owners why our panel is inferior, then you have no clue. Go buy the Phillips and be happy with your low input lag. We are pretty happy with the Samsung and our low input lag. ;)
 
Last edited:

Tyler-Durden

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Messages
2,302
Read the thread. You can do it bruh, I knowwwww how hard it is, omg omg omg so long! But it's a thousand+ dollar purchase amirite? So invest a little time and learn the way others learn. Also don't work for you either...so...Best of luck.
I actually have a life apart from my computer and [H], so you read the whole thread. Maybe you'll earn a merit badge from the powers that be on [H].

Check around post 1393 thereabouts and then again around 2245 thereabouts.

I used the thread search and got lucky. I've been lurking with interest in this thread. ;)
Thanks, man. I'll take a look. :)
 

rufio

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 4, 2003
Messages
1,361
Is the 1210 firmware good to use vs 1209 now? I've been out of country for the last 2 weeks and it seems like Samsung has been working the whole time!
 

Seyumi

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 30, 2011
Messages
367
You're all such haters lol. I just ordered the 40" JU7500 from Amazon. I already know the Samsung is superior to the Philips I wasn't trying to defend my current monitor. I just got cold feet when people were reporting up to 2 more frames on lag +36ms? on 4k versus 1080p but it appears the newest firmware quickly fixed it. I plan on keeping this but thank god for Amazon's awesome return policy if for some reason it doesn't work out (not sure if I'm sensitive to PWM or not).
 

Cyph

Gawd
Joined
Mar 24, 2015
Messages
812
Not a firmware issue but a Windows one: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2625567/

To fix. In Regedit, go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\COntrol\Graphics Drivers\Configuration

Find the entries that starts with SIMULATED and your monitor string. If you don't know which one, change all of them. Go to the first subfolder 00, and find the keys: PrimSurfSize.cx and change to hex "f00," and PrimSurfSize.cy hex value "870." That should change the default monitor size to 3840 x 2160 which will no longer resize and move your windows to the upper left corner.
 

vorpel

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 7, 2006
Messages
395
Connect HDMI from PC to your TV.
Connect HDMI from your PC to your AV system.
Set clone video mode (or any other mode except single screen) in the video driver and then set as default the audio output device to your AV system in the sound Playback Devices.


Due to content protection, when playing back Blu Ray movies from BD discs, you may be forced to only use one display or it will give an error or blank screen.
So connect your AV amp to your TV as well and only use this for watching movies if you have to.
(lag doesnt matter watching movies)

I have had this happen so I just ripped all my movies to hard drive and dont suffer the stupid protection problems any more lol.

Thanks for the info!
 

Brahmzy

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
4,958
Not a firmware issue but a Windows one: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2625567/

To fix. In Regedit, go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\COntrol\Graphics Drivers\Configuration

Find the entries that starts with SIMULATED and your monitor string. If you don't know which one, change all of them. Go to the first subfolder 00, and find the keys: PrimSurfSize.cx and change to hex "f00," and PrimSurfSize.cy hex value "870." That should change the default monitor size to 3840 x 2160 which will no longer resize and move your windows to the upper left corner.

Awesome - gonna try this!!!!
 

Nitemare3219

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
206
You’re kind of preaching to the choir bud. 95% of the people in this thread are probably coming from 27”+ IPS monitors who are used to more laggy monitors due to the nature of IPS. Not the “pro gamers” who won’t touch a monitor that isn’t a TN, 1MS, and 144mhz with a 10 foot poll sacrificing resolution, monitor size, color accuracy, and vibrancy for that 1 extra frame of speed. No offense, but I’m getting kind of tired of hearing from random people on the internet that the monitor “feels good,” and “don’t be a noob and try it for yourself.” I’d trust a subject matter expert such as Tft Central who’s been reviewing monitors for probably over a decade versus you. He explicitly says anything more than 32ms is not suitable for high end gaming. I’m not dropping $950~$1400 on a monitor that may potentially have more than 32ms of lag on 4k resolution. Myself and dozens of other people on this thread are patiently waiting on good solid #’s and results before splurging on what may be the best monitor of all time. The last firmware potentially pushed the lag to 55ms on game mode and 75ms on PC mode on 4K (not 1080p) which was the sole factor for me not buying it. Awaiting results on the new firmware which some people have said has fixed the lag.

While I can't provide "solid numbers," I have been providing image frame comparisons against a Yamakasi Catleap - an IPS monitor with no noticeable input lag. This test has proven accurate when I have tested 5 different displays. You can find my earlier tests a few pages back. It is my belief the shipped firmware (version 1006 in my case) provided the least input lag (levels were somehow the same for 4:4:4 PC and 4:2:0? game mode). Firmware 1210 may have fixed this, but in my short hour or two of desktop use with the new firmware, it may have only improved, not solved the issue. I have been in the process of moving back home from school. Tomorrow (technically tonight, Saturday) I will be testing again against the Catleap for lag. On Monday, I should have a new 48" JU7500, hopefully with early firmware, to test for lag and ghosting issues that I felt the updates brought.

I've just about settled on this as my next monitor. My question below may have been answered somewhere in the previous 126 pages, but I don't have time to read every one of them. So...

Are there any advantages of the JU7500 over the JU6700 that justify the extra $450?

3D
24 Hz capability (no judder during film)
True 120 Hz panel for 120 Hz smoothed 4K gaming (albeit with greater processing lag)
Better speakers
Glossy panel
Some members noticed less blur with this panel during gaming

I may be missing a few things, but I'd say it is.

Is the 1210 firmware good to use vs 1209 now? I've been out of country for the last 2 weeks and it seems like Samsung has been working the whole time!

I will be testing this in about 24 hours. It certainly isn't any worse.

Not a firmware issue but a Windows one: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2625567/

To fix. In Regedit, go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\COntrol\Graphics Drivers\Configuration

Find the entries that starts with SIMULATED and your monitor string. If you don't know which one, change all of them. Go to the first subfolder 00, and find the keys: PrimSurfSize.cx and change to hex "f00," and PrimSurfSize.cy hex value "870." That should change the default monitor size to 3840 x 2160 which will no longer resize and move your windows to the upper left corner.

Fantastic. I just wonder if this would cause an issue when hooking up a single display later on that isn't 4K?

I really feel the need to strenuously test 4:4:4 PC mode against 4:2:2 game mode. Technically, as I've seen explained, it should be essentially halving part of the color resolution (horizontal I believe). This is a huge deal, but I seriously haven't been able to notice a difference to my naked eye, or with taking pictures by hand. I'll be taking tripod photos, to include the use of a macro lens where we can see subpixels, comparing things tomorrow if I have time - if not, then Sunday.

Sorry about the absence lately fellas. I've been busy. Next week will be an interesting one! I'm receiving my 980 hybrid coolers for my Titan X's, the 48" JU7500, and a Herman Miller Embody chair... though I may end up liking the Steelcase Leap better. :D
 

Mako360

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 1, 2006
Messages
336
Ordered one of those EVGA AIO hybrid water coolers for it (the 980 GTX one works on the Titan X), supposed to get here today...will be curious if it helps at all:

http://www.evga.com/products/Product.aspx?pn=400-HY-H980-B1

Installed tonight, what a difference. It won't unlock more overclocking headroom as these cards are power limited more than heat limited (just install one of the many modded bioses out there for more juice), but the noise factor is amazing.

Basically the Titan X runs at 20% fan, permanently, and the rest of the system is near-silent due to the 120mm fan on the radiator being a sub-2000rpm model.

As for performance, ambient idle GPU temp went from 48C to 33C, and 30 minutes+ 4k gaming peak temp fell from 74C to 51C...all without the insane 90%+ fan speed the Titan X was previously hitting under the same circumstances.

Easily worth it, they should all have come this way.
 

Seyumi

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 30, 2011
Messages
367
Installed tonight, what a difference. It won't unlock more overclocking headroom as these cards are power limited more than heat limited (just install one of the many modded bioses out there for more juice), but the noise factor is amazing.

Basically the Titan X runs at 20% fan, permanently, and the rest of the system is near-silent due to the 120mm fan on the radiator being a sub-2000rpm model.

As for performance, ambient idle GPU temp went from 48C to 33C, and 30 minutes+ 4k gaming peak temp fell from 74C to 51C...all without the insane 90%+ fan speed the Titan X was previously hitting under the same circumstances.

Easily worth it, they should all have come this way.

I did the same thing on my 3 Titan X's lol. I just have corsair SP120 quiet editions running at a static 1450rpm though. Can't wait to test these on my new Samsung coming soon.
 

Cyph

Gawd
Joined
Mar 24, 2015
Messages
812
While I can't provide "solid numbers," I have been providing image frame comparisons against a Yamakasi Catleap - an IPS monitor with no noticeable input lag. This test has proven accurate when I have tested 5 different displays. You can find my earlier tests a few pages back. It is my belief the shipped firmware (version 1006 in my case) provided the least input lag (levels were somehow the same for 4:4:4 PC and 4:2:0? game mode). Firmware 1210 may have fixed this, but in my short hour or two of desktop use with the new firmware, it may have only improved, not solved the issue. I have been in the process of moving back home from school. Tomorrow (technically tonight, Saturday) I will be testing again against the Catleap for lag. On Monday, I should have a new 48" JU7500, hopefully with early firmware, to test for lag and ghosting issues that I felt the updates

Fantastic. I just wonder if this would cause an issue when hooking up a single display later on that isn't 4K?

Thanks for the effort. However, I hope that this thread doesn't devolve into a bitch-fest about input lag. If people need the lowest Input lag, they really should be buying the XB270HU.

Also, AVSForum has confirmed that the new Sony 2015 TVs don't do 4:4:4 at 60hz 4K. Samsung is really the only game in town so owners should be happy they made the right decision.

The fix for the window reshuffling should not affect non-4k monitors. It just changes the default resolution in the off state. Once the monitor reports it's resolution, the final resolution is still the correct one. The problem previously was that the transitional state was at 768p which is why all the windows were resized to 768 pixels tall and 1024 wide.
 

SlippinJimmy

Weaksauce
Joined
Mar 29, 2015
Messages
104
Thanks for the effort. However, I hope that this thread doesn't devolve into a bitch-fest about input lag. If people need the lowest Input lag, they really should be buying the XB270HU.

Also, AVSForum has confirmed that the new Sony 2015 TVs don't do 4:4:4 at 60hz 4K. Samsung is really the only game in town so owners should be happy they made the right decision.

The fix for the window reshuffling should not affect non-4k monitors. It just changes the default resolution in the off state. Once the monitor reports it's resolution, the final resolution is still the correct one. The problem previously was that the transitional state was at 768p which is why all the windows were resized to 768 pixels tall and 1024 wide.


Wow, and Sony wonders why it isn't doing well in the TV business. I figured that all 2015 TVs would do 4:4:4, but not Vizio and Sony (not sure about Sharp yet).
 

WorldExclusive

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 26, 2009
Messages
11,419
Not a firmware issue but a Windows one: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2625567/

To fix. In Regedit, go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\COntrol\Graphics Drivers\Configuration

Find the entries that starts with SIMULATED and your monitor string. If you don't know which one, change all of them. Go to the first subfolder 00, and find the keys: PrimSurfSize.cx and change to hex "f00," and PrimSurfSize.cy hex value "870." That should change the default monitor size to 3840 x 2160 which will no longer resize and move your windows to the upper left corner.

It worked. Thanks.
This would be great to pin in the OP.

Can someone else takeover the OP mods?
 

chrono69

n00b
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
3
Just got my un40ju6700 set up...

Initial thoughts:

-Fantastic Samsung build quality, screen, and colors. Zero dead pixels. As usual, Samsung is top notch here.
-Terrible stand. Sticks out quite a few inches from behind the tv so even if you push the back of the stand against the wall it makes the TV like 8 inches deep dead center. Which sucks when the tv itself is only a couple of inches deep. Oh well, Just have to mount it to really get it flush against the wall (might not matter for some..)
-Not a fan of the remote. Not sure why. I keep hitting the play/pause button instead of the down arrow. First world problems...

-Running the stock firmware 1006 and it seems totally fine and have no interest in updating until the dust settles lol.

On to the performance: I'm coming from a pretty basic 32 inch vizio led M320VT @1080p so I'm probably not the best person to chime in on ghosting or input lag, but I've noticed none. Before I installed my gtx970 I was stuck at 1080p and for whatever reason it WAS hell on my eyes. Very blurry and was hard to focus. Not sure why. As soon as I upped to uhd 4k, that went away and its an amazing experience and I feel no input lag or ghosting. My take on all of that is if you're really looking for it, you'll find it. Or if you are coming from some uber monitor, you might have issues, but I simply don't have any. I'm just easy to impress probably...

-Sitting about 19 inches away (soon to be like 25 or so once I mount it) and its perfectly fine. Running 10 backlight and its fine on the eyes. I will say the the panel does reflect a bit, and depending on your lighting situation and whats on the screen (like pure black) you can see your reflection. Not a deal breaker at all.

-I wanted to wait to next year to upgrade to skylake and pascal (something that I hope a single card can do 4k ultra with ease for ~$400-500) so I just bought a gtx 970 for $295 to use with my 4 year old build of a i5 760 and 8gb of ddr3 and see what it could do and so far I'm impressed. Desktop usage @ 4k is obviously flawless, and I seem to be able to get decent performance from games. Was playing BF4 online @4k ultra settings last night and was averaging 25-30fps with a few hiccups here and there. It really wasn't that bad. Reducing the settings obviously yields more frames. Elite: Dangerous ran pretty well @ 4k ultra, but it didn't get to an area with a lot of activity...Probably going to pick up gtav and see what I can get out of that. All in all, I'm impressed with the performance I'm wringing out of it, but then again I'm probably a cheap date.

-Purchased @ Crutchfield and I'm totally happy with the service. Purchased at 4pm tuesday, arrived 12pm thursday. Now that amazon charges me tax, there aren't a lot of reliable online vendors that don't charge tax, or don't have some shitty return policy (looking at you newegg). Plus they threw in some blueray player (anyone want to buy a Samsung BD-J5900?). Also got 3% cashback from chase and another 5.4% from befrugal...All in all happy with crutchfield and would recommend to anyone..

Time to go mount this thing now and get it flush against the wall...stupid stand...Hope everyone enjoys today's festivities.
 

Tyler-Durden

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Messages
2,302
3D
24 Hz capability (no judder during film)
True 120 Hz panel for 120 Hz smoothed 4K gaming (albeit with greater processing lag)
Better speakers
Glossy panel
Some members noticed less blur with this panel during gaming

I may be missing a few things, but I'd say it is.
Good stuff. Gonna go with the 7500. Thanks! :)
 

shadow85

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Messages
489
PWM affects only users with issues of PWM. Seinfeld reported he had headaches on the Phillips at 20 backlight no difference. So if you're sensitive to PWM, you're up the creek with both.

The Phillips was my first choice. You want me to list the cons?
.....
Pros you conveniently left out for the Samsung:
.....

So does the samsung JU series have better colour quality than the philips? Where is the proof?

The Sammy can't do 4:4:4 in game mode(or can it?), so it can't have better colour quality?
 

rinaldo00

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 9, 2005
Messages
1,862
I have decided to buy the Samsung, my only debate is what size. My brother is going to help me install it (I have bad dexterity due to a car accident that was not my fault) At first I wanted the 40", but people here have got me wanting to try the 48" curved. At first my brother was saying I was insane for going that large. Well yesterday he went to Best Buy to compare the 40 and the 48. When he came over here afterwards he stunned me. He says 'bro, you must get the 55" curved, it is AMAZING. The 48" looks so small.' He is nuts correct? At 3' that is still too large and with that PPI text will be too small, especially in games where it won't scale. Am I correct to stick with the 48" ?
 

Lateralus

More [H]uman than Human
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
17,112
I have decided to buy the Samsung, my only debate is what size. My brother is going to help me install it (I have bad dexterity due to a car accident that was not my fault) At first I wanted the 40", but people here have got me wanting to try the 48" curved. At first my brother was saying I was insane for going that large. Well yesterday he went to Best Buy to compare the 40 and the 48. When he came over here afterwards he stunned me. He says 'bro, you must get the 55" curved, it is AMAZING. The 48" looks so small.' He is nuts correct? At 3' that is still too large and with that PPI text will be too small, especially in games where it won't scale. Am I correct to stick with the 48" ?

I think Dan D. summed it up pretty well a few pages ago:

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1041567971&postcount=2224
 

rufio

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 4, 2003
Messages
1,361
I have decided to buy the Samsung, my only debate is what size. My brother is going to help me install it (I have bad dexterity due to a car accident that was not my fault) At first I wanted the 40", but people here have got me wanting to try the 48" curved. At first my brother was saying I was insane for going that large. Well yesterday he went to Best Buy to compare the 40 and the 48. When he came over here afterwards he stunned me. He says 'bro, you must get the 55" curved, it is AMAZING. The 48" looks so small.' He is nuts correct? At 3' that is still too large and with that PPI text will be too small, especially in games where it won't scale. Am I correct to stick with the 48" ?

I had both the 40 and the 48 (non curved, due to photo editing needs). I settled on the 48 based on the fact that the DPI is the same as what I'm used to at work on my 24in 1080p screens. The larger size is still taking a bit to get used to a few things, like full screen application menus being above center view (need to learn to not slouch). The 48 is way more immersive. Coming from a dell 3007wfp the 40' was not as impressive as I thought it would be.
 

Darwin32

Weaksauce
Joined
Sep 5, 2010
Messages
85
I think you guys are sometimes forgetting that we are talking about monitors.... Monitors are meant to be smaller, and closer to your eyes..

To me, as soon as you start pushing your monitor further away from you, this represents a point where your screen is too big...Because what's the point of having larger screen, if you are gonna then make it look smaller by pushing it away.. And if normal distance is ~2 feet (50-60 cm), by this logic, anything larger than 40-42" is simply too big, as it requires some serious head movement.

Than again, maybe you don't mind moving your head. :)

Edit: Plus there is this common wisdom that dictates your eyes should be centered on the upper end of the monitor, which is almost impossible with the 48" screen, even if you lower it down to the desk..
 

Masejoer

Gawd
Joined
Mar 11, 2001
Messages
698
I think you guys are sometimes forgetting that we are talking about monitors.... Monitors are meant to be smaller, and closer to your eyes..

To me, as soon as you start pushing your monitor further away from you, this represents a point where your screen is too big...Because what's the point of having larger screen, if you are gonna then make it look smaller by pushing it away.. And if normal distance is ~2 feet (50-60 cm), by this logic, anything larger than 40-42" is simply too big, as it requires some serious head movement.

Than again, maybe you don't mind moving your head. :)

Edit: Plus there is this common wisdom that dictates your eyes should be centered on the upper end of the monitor, which is almost impossible with the 48" screen, even if you lower it down to the desk..

Then why did you go larger than 15"? Monitors are only displays without tuners built-in - nothing more than that. Limitations of technology are the only reason we started with small screens. There's no reason to think a PC monitor needs to only be viewed by one person, which can be done up close, while tvs must be viewed by multiple people, from a further distance.

48" sitting on the top of a desk still puts a person's eyes near the top of the screen.
 

Lateralus

More [H]uman than Human
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
17,112
Honestly, I thought that the 40" was the better size for a PC monitor when I had it. It felt perfect and was very impressive even after having the 32" BenQ and the curved 34" Dell ultrawide.

All the talk of the 48" pushed me to try it out. When I compared them in the store, I felt that it would be too large due to the reasons Darwin mentioned. My initial impressions were pretty ugly...I actually felt ill when I tried to game on it. It was just overwhelming. But the more I used it, the more I got used to it. I've made it work.

I felt like the 40" was the more "comfortable" size, if that makes any sense, but the 48" does provide a very impressive gaming experience. It delivers immersion in spades. :)
 

Masejoer

Gawd
Joined
Mar 11, 2001
Messages
698
I have decided to buy the Samsung, my only debate is what size. My brother is going to help me install it (I have bad dexterity due to a car accident that was not my fault) At first I wanted the 40", but people here have got me wanting to try the 48" curved. At first my brother was saying I was insane for going that large. Well yesterday he went to Best Buy to compare the 40 and the 48.

Which 48" curved model did your BB have?
 

Darwin32

Weaksauce
Joined
Sep 5, 2010
Messages
85
Then why did you go larger than 15"? Monitors are only displays without tuners built-in - nothing more than that. Limitations of technology are the only reason we started with small screens. There's no reason to think a PC monitor needs to only be viewed by one person, which can be done up close, while tvs must be viewed by multiple people, from a further distance.

48" sitting on the top of a desk still puts a person's eyes near the top of the screen.

I'm following this thread pretty much from the get go, and all the while cautioning people to think twice before going big... And guess what.. Many who initially went with 48 later exchanged it for 40.. I got the feeling probably roughly half of them, or at least one third of them. .. And some of those who kept it then pushed the screens away from them..

So it paints this picture which seemingly strengthens my point..

Although there were also a few who after a while brought their 48" screens even closer to their eyes. So there's no magic bullet here.
 

Seyumi

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 30, 2011
Messages
367
I have to agree with the 40" vs 48" argument. Even 40" is kind of too big which is what I use. I still have to shift my head to see UI elements in most games which actually hinders my performance and is slightly more uncomfortable. I have the monitor pushed back on my desk as far as possible too. The only way I could see a 48" being practical is something like a driving or flying sim with no UI elements or anything. Or pushing it farther back and treating it more like a TV with a lounge chair/couch instead of a computer chair. You're also losing out on pixel pitch as well if going 48" which will reduce overall quality if sitting the same distance as a 40". Just my opinion of course. I actually primarily play flight sims so I was considering the 48" but I didn't want all my other games to suffer more.
 

Mako360

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 1, 2006
Messages
336
<~~~ 48" curved, 30-inch view distance. Heaven, in all games.

No there is no "neck pain" or other nonsense. I may even move it closer as I started at a 36-inch view distance and found it shrunk a bit after the first few weeks as your brain adjusts perception over time.
 

rinaldo00

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 9, 2005
Messages
1,862
Which 48" curved model did your BB have?

This was something that shocked me. I live in downtown Chicago (by no means a small town) and they did not have ANY of the new 48" in stock! All they had was 55" and above. In fact the guy I talked to did not know that the JU6700 and JU7500 came in 40" and 48" sizes. I told him Fry's and Amazon had them weeks ago. He used last year's 48" to compare.
 

Lateralus

More [H]uman than Human
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
17,112
I have to agree with the 40" vs 48" argument. Even 40" is kind of too big which is what I use. I still have to shift my head to see UI elements in most games which actually hinders my performance and is slightly more uncomfortable. I have the monitor pushed back on my desk as far as possible too. The only way I could see a 48" being practical is something like a driving or flying sim with no UI elements or anything. Or pushing it farther back and treating it more like a TV with a lounge chair/couch instead of a computer chair. You're also losing out on pixel pitch as well if going 48" which will reduce overall quality if sitting the same distance as a 40". Just my opinion of course. I actually primarily play flight sims so I was considering the 48" but I didn't want all my other games to suffer more.

Yeah, clearly all of us with the 48" are suffering in games. :p

It's entirely personal preference...there is no right or wrong. Text was a bit sharper on the 40" but not drastically so. One could argue that text is easier to read on the 48". For every pro, there is a con.

I could be happy with either! It's great to have options. You don't typically get your choice of size (in the same model line) in the world of PC monitors, so that's one advantage of the HDTV world.
 

Nitemare3219

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
206
So does the samsung JU series have better colour quality than the philips? Where is the proof?

The Sammy can't do 4:4:4 in game mode(or can it?), so it can't have better colour quality?

The proof is coming from me soon... that is, proof that game mode (being 4:2:2 by the looks of it - we're not entirely sure? - since the 1206 firmware update) in games is indiscernible from 4:4:4. Technically it doesn't seem possible, but I have noticed zero difference so far. As I said, I will be doing a very good comparison.

I think you guys are sometimes forgetting that we are talking about monitors.... Monitors are meant to be smaller, and closer to your eyes..

To me, as soon as you start pushing your monitor further away from you, this represents a point where your screen is too big...Because what's the point of having larger screen, if you are gonna then make it look smaller by pushing it away.. And if normal distance is ~2 feet (50-60 cm), by this logic, anything larger than 40-42" is simply too big, as it requires some serious head movement.

Than again, maybe you don't mind moving your head. :)

Edit: Plus there is this common wisdom that dictates your eyes should be centered on the upper end of the monitor, which is almost impossible with the 48" screen, even if you lower it down to the desk..

A larger screen is great in my opinion. After using a 32", and having to go back to a 27", I tried the idea of just sitting closer to occupy more field of view. That's only part of it. Your mind can't be fooled that easily. It feels MUCH better, to me anyway, to sit further from a large screen than closer to a small one.

PLUS! These puppies can double duty beyond monitors. Why wouldn't you pony up $200 more for a 48" over a 40" TV at this price? It makes no sense, and that is why I purchased the 48".

I'm following this thread pretty much from the get go, and all the while cautioning people to think twice before going big... And guess what.. Many who initially went with 48 later exchanged it for 40.. I got the feeling probably roughly half of them, or at least one third of them. .. And some of those who kept it then pushed the screens away from them..

So it paints this picture which seemingly strengthens my point..

Although there were also a few who after a while brought their 48" screens even closer to their eyes. So there's no magic bullet here.

I do have a bit of fear about grabbing the 48". It'll hopefully be here Monday... freight services haven't contacted me yet even though they got it on Friday.

Again, I feel like down the road it'll be much better to have the 48" version for the price. You can ALWAYS adjust your desk/chair/sitting situation, but can never make the TV bigger... Right now, I love the 40" size. It feels great, but I am hoping that the 48" feels even more immersive and doesn't color shift as long as I sit in the proper position. I don't like desktop usage on 40" from 24"-30" away, but gaming is awesome - and that is why I bought it.

Sorry guys, I didn't get around to setting up my PC/room from moving today. It'll happen tomorrow, and I'll try to test against the Catleap, followed by the 48" as soon as I get it. But I did get a response in regards to the 4K lag testing from RTINGS! Their findings were consistent with my and coolhandm3's findings. I asked what firmware it was on, and am awaiting a response. I also wonder if they had, and knew of, the V-Sync issue I had when testing with two screens. It seems they didn't, or they accounted for it, because their numbers aren't far from mine. I will know for sure when I test again anyway. I knew PC and game mode were no different - I felt it and the tests confirmed it!

I plan to test UHD on/OFF and YcBcr444 on both the 48" (stock firmware) and latest firmware on the 40", against each other and the Catleap. Also comparing color differences (if any) between those modes, other than the obvious difference between UHD on/off.

Sorry for the delay. Here are the results:



In order to test 4k, because the Beo Lodnar tool doesn&#8217;t output as such, I did the 2 screen method using a 240fps camera (more precise than just taking a picture). Note that these are not offset by the reference monitor&#8217;s input lag, these are the raw results.

Our reference monitor has an input lag of about 36 ms, so add that number to all of these.

1080p (for reference)

Normal: 83.3 ms

Game: -12.5 ms (minus means the input lag is lower than our reference)

PC: 8.3ms



4k @ 60Hz, with UHD On

Normal:37.5 ms

Game: 16.6 ms

PC: 16.6 ms





Therefore, yes, it increases the input lag, but only by 8 ms in PC mode (4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4). Game mode gets on par with PC. Normal is lower, probably due to the UHD On.

Cedric Demers
Rtings.com
 
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Seyumi

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 30, 2011
Messages
367
The proof is coming from me soon...

Thanks Nitemare. I think the most important test many of us are waiting for is the new lag results with the newest firmware version for 4k resolution. That source you quoted just confirmed 52.6ms lag on both game mode & PC mode for 4K resolution which is much higher than my comfort zone. I'm hoping they were using the older firmware that introduced the additional lag. Please let us know asap. Thank you.
 

Cyph

Gawd
Joined
Mar 24, 2015
Messages
812
That doesn't make sense if PC and Game Mode are the same on 4K. Samsung definitely broke something. That means the same processing features were enabled on both. We need a future firmware to fix if 1210 didn't fix it.
 

ssj92

n00b
Joined
Apr 20, 2015
Messages
26
There's no way PC & Game mode are on the same @ 4k. There's definitely a noticeable difference between the two when I switch. My mouse movements have a lot more lag in PC mode. That's why I stick with Game mode. 1210 firmware.
 

coolhandm3

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
386
There's no way PC & Game mode are on the same @ 4k. There's definitely a noticeable difference between the two when I switch. My mouse movements have a lot more lag in PC mode. That's why I stick with Game mode. 1210 firmware.

I agree with this.

We will see when Nitemare does his tests, from what I said earlier game mode in 4k uhd on is the same as 1080p for lag on firmware 1210. There is a definate difference between pc and game mode in 4k.
 

Nitemare3219

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
206
Currently testing... as it looks right now, game mode and PC mode are still botched on 1210 with both YcBcr444 and RGB with UHD on. DVI PC looks to have less than 1 frame of lag behind the Catleap which is great. Still confirming this though, and will also be looking into color differences between game mode and PC mode and YcBcr444.
 

coolhandm3

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
386
Currently testing... as it looks right now, game mode and PC mode are still botched on 1210 with both YcBcr444 and RGB with UHD on. DVI PC looks to have less than 1 frame of lag behind the Catleap which is great. Still confirming this though, and will also be looking into color differences between game mode and PC mode and YcBcr444.

Is that with uhd on with dvi/pc? How many frames of lag are we looking at in 4k?
 
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