New Intel Core Processor Combines High-Performance CPU with Custom Discrete Graphics from AMD

SighTurtle said:
25-35% of laptops sold have a Nvidia GPU. (Percentages are guesses, point is Intel wants the GPU money too.)
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I won't argue the numbers, they were a guess. But the answer is probably correct regardless. You could get away with saying that "since this will cut NVidia out of some market share it's a fair guess that it will be profitable for Intel".
 
With the advances considering the AMD Mesa driver this is great news for Linux users looking for the perfect laptop configuration.
 
Kdawg said:
how does this benefit intel?

99% of laptops sold have an intel chip, shitty gpu or not.
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Except maybe to counter AMD's new Ryzen Mobile (raven ridge)? It would have been a highly viable alternative to intel's offerings, especially with games.

Everyone thinks games like Crysis are worthless on laptops. But there are plenty of games which are highly playable on laptops and well liked. Civ, Roblox, Terreria, Minecraft, even racing and sports games don't take a tremendous amount of GPU power but would still benefit from something better than an IRIS Pro.
 
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Now the big question:

What is the future of RTG?

Is Raj leaving because this deal shoots AMD in the foot? I'm going to have to re-contemplate all this now.
 
I don't comprehend why AMD would want to do this. I mean...Ryzen is doing well and Raven Ridge just got announced. If this is just a cash motivated deal, it seems short sighted to me.

But yes, Kyle was right.
 
Burticus said:
I don't comprehend why AMD would want to do this. I mean...Ryzen is doing well and Raven Ridge just got announced. If this is just a cash motivated deal, it seems short sighted to me.

But yes, Kyle was right.
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As Kyle stated, Raja fought to make/keep RTG a separate entity of AMD, thus under it's own leadership, capable of doing these deals. As RTG was just barely floating, Raj did some back room dealing to save RTG. I don't know how much of a loss this is. I'm sure RTG worked out a nice little profit for themselves.


But Navi better be pretty freaking spectacular.
 
ole-m said:
Finally got off an rather good architecture ?
Navi that bad?

Let's set the targets AMD had to design everything upon to be able to succeed and thus Raja's limitations, it's not written anywhere but looking at finance there is no other way.

1.\ It had to use viable technology for the Future which scales and works in the entire stack : HBM2 and existing gddr5 controller for mid\low range - No new GDDR5 controller!
2.\ Hugely modular design : Ryzen, Vega. - There is no differences between them, multiply and that's it.
3.\ Development cost have to be a one time deal preferably, no playing with rops, tmu, shader ratios and memory busses and memory configurations - All for the next years.

Thus the end results are what we see, Gpu's are very very complex unlike cpu's and changing it radically is practically impossible.
Their goal is a to have one chip for Compute and making unlike Nvidia and Intel which has a chip for anything you want - That costs money..






the way it looks is that the Open standards are starting to win out, 1/5th the price of gsync and Xbox, PS4, Laptops and desktop can use it while gsync is just some desktop computers, enthusiasts and consumers are two vastly different classes of consumers and 75% of market ain't gonna buy a 500$+ screen.

As for cuda\opencl - Performance is roughly the same and devs like opencl over cuda but Nvidia have poured tons of resources into Cuda thus Cuda got really big but Adobe is doing a switch and others are also following thus AMD\Intel seem to be winning that one but that one really remains to be seen.
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I am not an AMD apologist. Polaris was originally MEANT to go toe to toe with Nvidia, as Kyle reported when also reporting on the thread subject a year ago.

Even with heavy revisions, Vega still couldn't beat Nvidia because it still was hindered by the arctic islands architecture.

AMD made some major business decisions to turn a failure into an asset.

Navi is to be a new architecture. My hope was it would be something that could compete with Nvidia.

But if its the same guys who designed the arctic islands, i don't have much faith. RTG needs their Keller. Thought Raja would be it, but if he's out, hope it's because like Keller, his work is done, and not because he screwed the pooch.
 
DigitalGriffin said:
As Kyle stated, Raja fought to make/keep RTG a separate entity of AMD, thus under it's own leadership, capable of doing these deals. As RTG was just barely floating, Raj did some back room dealing to save RTG. I don't know how much of a loss this is. I'm sure RTG worked out a nice little profit for themselves.


But Navi better be pretty freaking spectacular.
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Agreed
 
doz said:
Kyle told us all about this almost a year ago.
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Yep.

I believed it then, but what I still struggle with is how this is in AMD's best interest.

The one thing they have that Intel doesn't is capable GPU technology. Why throw Intel a bone here?
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Yep.

I believed it then, but what I still struggle with is how this is in AMD's best interest.

The one thing they have that Intel doesn't is capable GPU technology. Why throw Intel a bone here?
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AMD has been shooting ATI/RTG in the foot since they were acquired. There was a lack of funding to do it right. So I guess this is their (RTG's) way of surviving. Remember RTG is independent of AMD despite being a subsidiary.


But I guess one might ask why GM and Ford might work on transmissions together. It's the same reasoning.
 
Burticus said:
I don't comprehend why AMD would want to do this. I mean...Ryzen is doing well and Raven Ridge just got announced. If this is just a cash motivated deal, it seems short sighted to me.

But yes, Kyle was right.
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It is money not to long ago AMD had a lot of trouble they ditched the desktop cpu after Piledriver then to looked to improve their FMx platform where they thought they still could earn money. Don't forget that this deal is somewhat weird, supposedly only for laptops.
Kaby-G is going to be an extremely low volume halo product.
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https://semiaccurate.com/2017/11/06/intel-gpus-officially-dont-work-amd-rescue/

This is doable in modern laptops because most have bespoke board designs, desktops are not in the same boat. The cost overheads likely will never justify a Kaby-G desktop even if Intel sorely wants it
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In the end it is a product that could not only earn AMD some money but have more "consumer" based HBM2 products which in turn benefits us as consumers...
 
I have to fully disagree with Semiaccurate here. Intel & AMD would not waste R&D budget on a low volume part.

He's always got an axe to grind vs Intel and so it has clouded his judgement. This solution is going to replace all of the dGPU notebook designs in 2018, with only the very boutique high-end (large bricks) to retain NV GPUs.

Kyle Great call and courage to stick by your claims for a long time when others publicly called you nasty names for spreading that fake rumor.
 
Bahanime said:
I have to fully disagree with Semiaccurate here. Intel & AMD would not waste R&D budget on a low volume part.

He's always got an axe to grind vs Intel and so it has clouded his judgement. This solution is going to replace all of the dGPU notebook designs in 2018, with only the very boutique high-end (large bricks) to retain NV GPUs.

Kyle Great call and courage to stick by your claims for a long time when others publicly called you nasty names for spreading that fake rumor.
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You can disagree but look at how RX Vega is going. If you are talking large scale production for Intel , that is something completely different. And today were still waiting on custom Vega boards which supposedly are still not here because the volume that AMD is shipping to AIB is not enough.

Unless Intel grows HBM2 on trees it is not happening.
 
Everyone is bashing AMD for this move yet Intel has more to lose if this venture goes bad......
 
Pieter3dnow said:
You can disagree but look at how RX Vega is going. If you are talking large scale production for Intel , that is something completely different. And today were still waiting on custom Vega boards which supposedly are still not here because the volume that AMD is shipping to AIB is not enough.

Unless Intel grows HBM2 on trees it is not happening.
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It's all about the ramp up. If these become available Q1, the HBM2 supply issues might be resolved. But I do agree this is more a niche piece for upper end intel CPU's.

And I thought the custom board issues were due to how there were differences in the Vega die heights.
 
BulletDust said:
With the advances considering the AMD Mesa driver this is great news for Linux users looking for the perfect laptop configuration.
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Correction:
With the advancing kernel display driver and mesa opengl\vulkan driver.
To be fair I'm game with AMD or Intel graphics under linux, I just don't like Nvidia under Linux but we'll have more options on amd graphics now(maybe?) for more high performance open source goodness for the few millions who care about that.
 
Pieter3dnow said:
You can disagree but look at how RX Vega is going. If you are talking large scale production for Intel , that is something completely different. And today were still waiting on custom Vega boards which supposedly are still not here because the volume that AMD is shipping to AIB is not enough.

Unless Intel grows HBM2 on trees it is not happening.
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Timeframe is important. This is a early 2018 product. There's no rush to market like RX Vega. HBM2 yields maturing as we speak. The Radeon chip supplied looks to be ~200mm2 so basically, a small chip, yields will be non-issue.

Both companies would not commit for this to be a low volume product. Logic 101, use it.
 
Burticus said:
I don't comprehend why AMD would want to do this. I mean...Ryzen is doing well and Raven Ridge just got announced. If this is just a cash motivated deal, it seems short sighted to me.

But yes, Kyle was right.
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AMD is doing better than it was but it is still not doing well. This is a “we desperately need money and show growth play” as well as a sure fire way to make some significant strides in market share, but at what cost? AMD states their recently announced mobile offerings will not compete with Intel’s new offering, so it appears AMD has already ceded part of the market to Intel.
 
doz said:
Everyone is bashing AMD for this move yet Intel has more to lose if this venture goes bad......
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Lol what does Intel have to lose? AMD fans have been proclaiming for years now that Ryzen + RTG products will wreck Intel and now Intel has RTG products on package. I don’t think NVDA will even care all that much as they’re clearly moving in other, more profitable directions than GPUs.
 
If you cant beat em join em.

I own a threadripper and 8700k and a 7820x. I am not biased in my statement.
 
Tyns said:
Lol what does Intel have to lose? AMD fans have been proclaiming for years now that Ryzen + RTG products will wreck Intel and now Intel has RTG products on package. I don’t think NVDA will even care all that much as they’re clearly moving in other, more profitable directions than GPUs.
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AMD fans don't care as long as the product sports AMD tech and makes AMD money, while cutting Nvidia out of the market. As for your other points.. Intel approached AMD not the other way around (there is a reason AMD stock is up today).
 
1842719
 
muxr said:
AMD fans don't care as long as the product sports AMD tech and makes AMD money, while cutting Nvidia out of the market.
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They shouldn’t care one way or the other as long as they get better products for less money, but you cannot deny much of the enthusiasm for Ryzen was the false notion it would severely hurt Intel. Now we’re seeing calls for government intervention regarding memory prices as though these companies have a responsibility to make things cheap and plentiful for our video games; they run businesses and are trying to make as much money as possible. When I was young and struggled to afford the best equipment I didn’t get angry at companies for charging a lot of money, I️ figured out how to save to buy what I wanted.

I was a huge AMD fan 2001-2004 because they had clearly superior products at cheaper prices, not because i thought Intel was evil. Then AMD bought ATI and ruined both companies due to insufficient finances.
 
Tyns said:
They shouldn’t care one way or the other as long as they get better products for less money, but you cannot deny much of the enthusiasm for Ryzen was the false notion it would severely hurt Intel. Now we’re seeing calls for government intervention regarding memory prices as though these companies have a responsibility to make things cheap and plentiful for our video games; they run businesses and are trying to make as much money as possible. When I was young and struggled to afford the best equipment I didn’t get angry at companies for charging a lot of money, I️ figured out how to save to buy what I wanted.

I was a huge AMD fan 2001-2004 because they had clearly superior products at cheaper prices, not because i thought Intel was evil. Then AMD bought ATI and ruined both companies due to insufficient finances.
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I am an AMD fan because, I like their business ethics better, they embrace open standards and open source and because as a hardware enthusiast they provide a much needed competition to the only one other company in their respective fields they compete in (GPU/Nvidia, CPU/Intel).

This is a win win for AMD the way I see it. With this Intel admits they can't make powerful iGPUs. This changes nothing for Raven Ridge which addresses a much bigger market.

Anyone who claims they are a hardware enthusiast should be happy for AMD, because just look how much more interesting CPU market has gotten since Zen. It's unrecognizable.

edit: with that said I've owned tons of Intel CPUs and Nvidia GPUs over the years. My 1st PC was a 286 with a Hercules graphics card, back in the early 89-90'.
 
ole-m said:
Correction:
With the advancing kernel display driver and mesa opengl\vulkan driver.
To be fair I'm game with AMD or Intel graphics under linux, I just don't like Nvidia under Linux but we'll have more options on amd graphics now(maybe?) for more high performance open source goodness for the few millions who care about that.
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I love Nvidia under Linux, I have no issues with it. I don't care for Wayland when X-org works perfectly and I don't care if the drivers aren't FOSS when they're the best performing graphics drivers currently available under Linux. However, when it comes to laptops, the combination of Nvidia/AMD with the improvements in Mesa (no need to nit pick over the details) are fantastic due to the major issues surrounding combined iGPU and discrete solutions under Linux today.
 
lcpiper said:
I still don't get this kind of thinking.

Look, build two rigs brand new from the ground up with the requirement to drive very good graphics from 2K + displays and you will find no cost savings from an AMD+Freesync build, in fact it will cost you more.

Now the numbers change if you are upgrading and already own some of the components of one type or the other. So realistically, everyone has their own situation to deal with. But G-Sync is a competitive technology and saying otherwise is simply not true.

And before you come back breathing fire, you might try doing exactly what I just said, go price out a killer machine that's intended to drive say, an X34 monitor at 100hz or a 4K display. No fudging with settings, we want the eye candy on for some decent main stream titles that support these resolutions. Don't forget to beef up the PSU to drive the additional AMD video card you are going to need. And also don't forget that the comp is going to run warmer and use more juice though I wouldn't ask you to do a cost analysis, just accept the difference and that it exists.

And if you are not willing to do this and want to call me wrong, then I'll do it and you can prove me wrong if you think you can.
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What kind of thinking? If you can't comprehend that things get more features i don't know what to tell you. I quoted idiot and what did I say was wrong? He thinks gsync is superior just because AMD is moving to freesync 2.
 
lcpiper said:
I still don't get this kind of thinking.

Look, build two rigs brand new from the ground up with the requirement to drive very good graphics from 2K + displays and you will find no cost savings from an AMD+Freesync build, in fact it will cost you more.

Now the numbers change if you are upgrading and already own some of the components of one type or the other. So realistically, everyone has their own situation to deal with. But G-Sync is a competitive technology and saying otherwise is simply not true.

And before you come back breathing fire, you might try doing exactly what I just said, go price out a killer machine that's intended to drive say, an X34 monitor at 100hz or a 4K display. No fudging with settings, we want the eye candy on for some decent main stream titles that support these resolutions. Don't forget to beef up the PSU to drive the additional AMD video card you are going to need. And also don't forget that the comp is going to run warmer and use more juice though I wouldn't ask you to do a cost analysis, just accept the difference and that it exists.

And if you are not willing to do this and want to call me wrong, then I'll do it and you can prove me wrong if you think you can.
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Hmm. I'm looking at this and thinking that you're implying the only viable 1440p card is a 1080ti, and that a second vega 56 and the 1000+ watt power supply vs 650 watt is what sends the total cost over the gsync premium and $300 price diff between a V56 and a 1080ti?
 
This package style will make for great Sony/MS gaming console slim revisions, Xbox compatible PCs and notebooks.
 
Tyns said:
AMD is doing better than it was but it is still not doing well.
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Was AMD really doing THAT bad though? I mean, sole producer of APU chips for BOTH camps of game consoles isn't nothing...

blkt said:
This package style will make for great Sony/MS gaming console slim revisions, Xbox compatible PCs and notebooks.
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Problem there is game devs have been specifically coding for the Jaguar chips all this time, no way they will change this mid-stream. Next gen, who knows.
 
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Burticus said:
Was AMD really doing THAT bad though? I mean, sole producer of APU chips for BOTH camps of game consoles isn't nothing...
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They were hemorrhaging cash like crazy though. Also these consoles are notorious for having razor thin margins. Consoles probably saved them, but only a year and a half ago when their stock hit $1.76 bankruptcy was still on the table. Zen and executing well since then have turned it around. They still have a lot of debt and aren't yet generating massive profits but it looks like they are out of the woods now. We were pretty close to just having Intel and Nvidia.
 
Hell hath frozen over, but I remember the faint echos from an internet renegade telling us this would happen some time ago...

But doesn't this directly compete with Ryzen APUs?

Maybe this was the only way to get a discreet GPU in the portable market?
 
umeng2002 said:
But doesn't this directly compete with Ryzen APUs?
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This is a much different class of iGPU from the one in Raven Ridge. Raven Ridge has 10 Vega compute units, while this thing has 24 Polaris CUs. So technically a 140% bigger GPU (Vega is a newer arch but we can ignore that for the most part). Also this product will have HBM2.. while Raven Ridge has to contend with sharing VRAM with system memory and GPU love memory bandwidth. Raven Ridge targets 15 watts, and this will probably be more like 65 watts.

Basically they are for different markets entirely. Raven Ridge is for ultra portable laptops, capable of gaming, while Kaby Lake G is more for professional workstation replacements or gaming laptops.
 
Zion Halcyon said:
Motley fool admits they own shares in Nvidia.

ALWAYS be leery of sites that give stock advice . More often than not, their "advice" is meant to steer people in a direction that will benefit the ADVISORS' stocks, NOT the reader/listener.
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That's a huge conflict of interest if I've ever seen one. I did suspect their articles though and this does seem to work with that suspicion.
 
Burticus said:
Was AMD really doing THAT bad though?
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As a going business concern, yes.

What market does Raven Ridge address, the pro tablet market? What's the use case for a low power laptop that can do some gaming?
 
Tyns said:
As a going business concern, yes.

What market does Raven Ridge address, the pro tablet market? What's the use case for a low power laptop that can do some gaming?
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The use case is all 15W notebooks will have a lot to gain from RR than sticking with Intel + HD-whatever-#, because Zen on low power leverage it's perf/w advantage for higher boost clocks. Without the clock speed advantage than Intel has on desktop, and a single CCX design, RR is superior to Intel's low-power Kabylake for raw performance.

So essentially it obsoletes (hardware perf wise) Intel from the Ultrabook or thin notebook category where price does not approach premium dGPU category, by offering higher CPU performance and much higher graphics performance.

Intel is gonna still be king in the premium Ultrabook and Notebook because of this solution they have now with AMD graphics on an MCM.
 
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