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NEC LCD2470WNX
- Thread starter Manny Calavera
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delfin2003
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- May 24, 2007
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Hey guys,
So I have the luxury of having all three monitors, Dell 2407 WFP REV03 24", NEC 24" MultiSync 2470 WNX and Samsung 244T 24". I compared Nec, Samsung and Dell and yes there is a picture difference. First of all, here is the link to the picture that I used to compare them:
http://www.farfromfearless.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/190492_1157239813_large.jpg
Having three monitors Nec, Samsung and Dell side by side, Nec and Samsung connected to a 700$ GeForece 8 GTX via DVI-D cables and Dell connected to GeForce 7 via DVD-D as well, I started googling digital art pictures and found the one above.
Brightness: All of the monitors have a very good brighteness. In fact, at full brightness monitors hurt your eyes. I am a software engineer and trust me, you will not want to stare at the monitors with brightness at full power. As I started turning down the brightness, samsung tended to have a little bluish hue to it, not very noticable and nec tended to have a slight yellowish hue. I didn't turn the brightness down on Dell, decided to leave it alone. Again, the hue is not noticable and you would not know it is there if you had not had a second monitor by the side to compare.
Contrast and Colors: Dell and Samsung had a noticable difference in contrast vs. Nec. Greens were noticably reacher on Dell and Samsung than on the Nec. However, Nec revealed much more detail about the dark background than Samsung or Dell. So its richer greens vs better shadow detail. I personally prefferred reacher colors rather that more detail in the dark with slightly washed out colors. I tried the contrast adjustment but this had minimum change on Nec. Then I tried setting DV Mode to PHOTO on NEC and that did prove to be useful. Colors became richer on Nec, even richer than that of Samsung or Dell however shadow detail was noticably decreased. I could not see good shadow detail with PHOTO mode turned on. It seems like Samsung and Dell have their monitor color processing adjusted between Nec's Standard Mode and Photo Mode. I ended up leaving Nec's DV mode at Standard since it provided much more shadow detail. When I say much more here I mean much more.
Black Border: Black border around the picture was good on Dell and Nec. Samsung had a black border with sort of pinkish hue to it and border background seemed to be leaking light.
Colclusion: All the monitors are very good monitors. Dell REV 03 performed very well. It is an excellent choice for the price. Nec is pricy and I think that contrast controls could be improved. Samsung is great but the black borders around the picture seemed to have a light pinkish hue to them. As it comes to the rest of the pictures that I have looked at, they all seemed to be around the same quality. Again the color richness seemed to be slightly better on both Samsung and Dell rather than Nec. But you will not notice it if you not stare and compare pictures. Anyway, hope this gives you an idea.
Mikhail
So I have the luxury of having all three monitors, Dell 2407 WFP REV03 24", NEC 24" MultiSync 2470 WNX and Samsung 244T 24". I compared Nec, Samsung and Dell and yes there is a picture difference. First of all, here is the link to the picture that I used to compare them:
http://www.farfromfearless.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/190492_1157239813_large.jpg
Having three monitors Nec, Samsung and Dell side by side, Nec and Samsung connected to a 700$ GeForece 8 GTX via DVI-D cables and Dell connected to GeForce 7 via DVD-D as well, I started googling digital art pictures and found the one above.
Brightness: All of the monitors have a very good brighteness. In fact, at full brightness monitors hurt your eyes. I am a software engineer and trust me, you will not want to stare at the monitors with brightness at full power. As I started turning down the brightness, samsung tended to have a little bluish hue to it, not very noticable and nec tended to have a slight yellowish hue. I didn't turn the brightness down on Dell, decided to leave it alone. Again, the hue is not noticable and you would not know it is there if you had not had a second monitor by the side to compare.
Contrast and Colors: Dell and Samsung had a noticable difference in contrast vs. Nec. Greens were noticably reacher on Dell and Samsung than on the Nec. However, Nec revealed much more detail about the dark background than Samsung or Dell. So its richer greens vs better shadow detail. I personally prefferred reacher colors rather that more detail in the dark with slightly washed out colors. I tried the contrast adjustment but this had minimum change on Nec. Then I tried setting DV Mode to PHOTO on NEC and that did prove to be useful. Colors became richer on Nec, even richer than that of Samsung or Dell however shadow detail was noticably decreased. I could not see good shadow detail with PHOTO mode turned on. It seems like Samsung and Dell have their monitor color processing adjusted between Nec's Standard Mode and Photo Mode. I ended up leaving Nec's DV mode at Standard since it provided much more shadow detail. When I say much more here I mean much more.
Black Border: Black border around the picture was good on Dell and Nec. Samsung had a black border with sort of pinkish hue to it and border background seemed to be leaking light.
Colclusion: All the monitors are very good monitors. Dell REV 03 performed very well. It is an excellent choice for the price. Nec is pricy and I think that contrast controls could be improved. Samsung is great but the black borders around the picture seemed to have a light pinkish hue to them. As it comes to the rest of the pictures that I have looked at, they all seemed to be around the same quality. Again the color richness seemed to be slightly better on both Samsung and Dell rather than Nec. But you will not notice it if you not stare and compare pictures. Anyway, hope this gives you an idea.
Mikhail
WicKeDcHilD
Gawd
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- Oct 4, 2006
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How about someone do a comparison with pictures instead of just talking...
I'm a Kindergarten teacher, and I will confirm the same thing.
Interesting comparison about the colors.
MasterTactician
2[H]4U
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- Oct 18, 2005
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And how about 1:1 1080p scaling?
Read the Posts on the second page
MasterTactician
2[H]4U
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No mention of scaling via VGA...Does anyone know if there are any issues there?
lightscreen
n00b
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- Dec 17, 2007
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This thread kinda died.
Any more input on this monitor? Did folks quit buying them?
Any more input on this monitor? Did folks quit buying them?
I bought one at the end of July. I like it quite a bit, but I can see why people go with other alternatives. Dell's monitors have more inputs and cost less, but I wanted something with guaranteed proper aspect control and I'm partial to NEC for their warranty support.
VGA has aspect adjustment. You can choose to stretch to fill the screen, maintain aspect, or 1:1. There are also some adjustments for choosing if a signal is a certain resolution (1360x768/1680x1050, 1280x768/1680x1050, and 1024x768/1400x1050). I don't believe these adjustments work in DVI mode
VGA has aspect adjustment. You can choose to stretch to fill the screen, maintain aspect, or 1:1. There are also some adjustments for choosing if a signal is a certain resolution (1360x768/1680x1050, 1280x768/1680x1050, and 1024x768/1400x1050). I don't believe these adjustments work in DVI mode
The gray-to-gray response time is 6ms. 16ms must be the on to off time, as G-to-G is advertised as 6ms on NEC's site.
The monitor's reviewed at Prad, if you want to read it. I played Bioshock on it and I didn't see the artifacts they described in the review. That was before I picked up a 20WMGX2 and then an LCD24WMCX. Having said that, it's not a medical imaging display by a long shot.
Like I said, I bought it namely because I'm partial to NEC. I knew exactly what I was getting (no panel lottery), I knew exactly how scaling worked (documented in the manual) and I like NEC's warranty service (I've used it twice, once for a 900u, once for a 17" LCD). If I were to buy now, I might choose the 2490WUXiSV. At the time, the 2490 was almost twice the price of the 2470WNX. Now? You can get the 2490 w/ SpectraView II (hardware calibration package) for $1156 from Provantage.
I hate you for tempting me.
The monitor's reviewed at Prad, if you want to read it. I played Bioshock on it and I didn't see the artifacts they described in the review. That was before I picked up a 20WMGX2 and then an LCD24WMCX. Having said that, it's not a medical imaging display by a long shot.
Like I said, I bought it namely because I'm partial to NEC. I knew exactly what I was getting (no panel lottery), I knew exactly how scaling worked (documented in the manual) and I like NEC's warranty service (I've used it twice, once for a 900u, once for a 17" LCD). If I were to buy now, I might choose the 2490WUXiSV. At the time, the 2490 was almost twice the price of the 2470WNX. Now? You can get the 2490 w/ SpectraView II (hardware calibration package) for $1156 from Provantage.
I hate you for tempting me.
you could say the same thing for dell. if they spend some money on their display quality instead of cosmetics, maybe they'd produce a decent monitor.
I am also partial to NEC, so I decided on either a 20WMGX2 (IPS) or a 2470 (PVA). The only con with the 20 was its size, but that doesn't matter now because I just can't find one. So that leaves the 2470, which I noticed had the same 6ms response as the 20WMGX2, but the reviews and forums warn about "input lag". Have you done alot of gaming on it? Did you notice the input lag or other problems?
Other than the extra inputs, which I don't need, how does the 2470 compare to the 20WMGX2 generally? Contrast, blacks, colors, viewing angle, etc.? Was size the main reason you bought the 2470 when you already had the famous 20WMGX2?
Looks like Super Warehouse has it for $566.
No, I didn't notice any issues. I don't have any of the advance DV mode options enabled, but I'm not sure that disables overdrive.
Old panels with higher latency used to make me ill, especially when interpolating (an old NEC 1760V, purchased in Nov, 2003). I haven't had any of those issues on the 2470, 20WMGX2, or 24WMCX., but I suspect I'm just not that aware of it after a certain threshold.
The 2470's text is easier to read, but not quite as crisp. That may not make sense, but with the 20WMGX2, black text will sometimes have a green tinge to it on one side (over digital input). This has to do with the adjustment of "Sharpness", and it seems I couldn't quite get the 20WMGX2 to be the same as the 2470.
I bought the 2470 before I bought the 20WMGX2. The 2470 replaced a Diamond Pro 900u that died. I bought the monitor on July 30th. 1920x1200 was a must. I bought the 20WMGX2 on October 18th to use as a LAN party monitor while waiting for the LCD24WMCX to arrive on the market. For $400 after rebate, it was too good a price to pass up (rebate's still pending...).
The 2470 is different than the 20WMGX2. For one, the 2470 has a matte finish. That impacts vibrancy a bit. The Prad review of the 2470 is accurate. Colors are good and subtle shades work, but they're not overpoweringly bright. The 20WMGX has a bit more "pop", but a dark screen is blueish-tinged instead of neutral. That seems to be a characteristic of IPS panels. Viewable angle seems to be about the same for both the 2470 and 20WMGX2. It's the 24WMCX where viewable angle is noticeable.
I haven't seen the Dell panel. I wouldn't buy a Dell, personally. I do not believe that "panel lotteries" are a good thing and I'm not a fan of Dell service and support. I don't begrudge people who buy Dells, though. Several of my friends have Dell panels and are happy with them, though I don't know anyone with the HC model.
HeadHunter
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Hi, my NEC 2470WNX just arrived, great panel imho, but since I switched from sony fw900 CRT I CAN actually feel the input lag (in windows so far, haven't tried games, I'll do that tomorrow).
So I need to know....Will it get better? I mean will I get used to it so that it won't make me crazy???
So I need to know....Will it get better? I mean will I get used to it so that it won't make me crazy???
HeadHunter
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Yes I do, but it's just about a strange feeling about movement, it took me some time to realize that it's caused by lag...
But I compared it to crt with stopwatches and lag is about 30ms, so I'm probably overly sensitive... :-( What can I do?
HeadHunter
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use the sony crt for games and the nec for everything else
Sure, and some 40" lcd for movies would be nice as well...
Unfortunately I have not enough space on my desk
Seriously: have anyone had the same problem with those 24" s-pva panels? Did you get used to that or do you still feel the lag?
I think it's a matter of placebo effect with your feelings of lag.
Theoreticaly there is an influence of input lag, but 30 ms is unnoticable - unless you're a real hardcore gamer
On the other hand - have you checked and increased your computer's USB rate? Default Windows XP setting is 125 Hz for USB (system checks 125 times a second if there is a signal from input devices like mouse, tablet, joystick etc.). Maximum available is 1000 Hz - much much higher. Increasing this rate will improve accuracy (maybe speed) of your mouse.
You need two programs:
1. Mouse rate checker - title is obvious. Here's the link:
http://tscherwitschke.de/mouseratechecker.html
2. USB Mouserate Switcher - Here's link:
http://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/System-Tweak/USB-Mouserate-switcher.shtml
(reboot needed after setting new Hertz rate)
Recommended setting is 500 Hz - so is set in my system.
To add two cents' worth - I own 2470WNX since 2 months - great great piece of monitor. I don't regret any penny
This topic helped me A LOT in making my decision. Good to see that it came alive after few months of "sleeping"
Cheers!
Theoreticaly there is an influence of input lag, but 30 ms is unnoticable - unless you're a real hardcore gamer
On the other hand - have you checked and increased your computer's USB rate? Default Windows XP setting is 125 Hz for USB (system checks 125 times a second if there is a signal from input devices like mouse, tablet, joystick etc.). Maximum available is 1000 Hz - much much higher. Increasing this rate will improve accuracy (maybe speed) of your mouse.
You need two programs:
1. Mouse rate checker - title is obvious. Here's the link:
http://tscherwitschke.de/mouseratechecker.html
2. USB Mouserate Switcher - Here's link:
http://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/System-Tweak/USB-Mouserate-switcher.shtml
(reboot needed after setting new Hertz rate)
Recommended setting is 500 Hz - so is set in my system.
To add two cents' worth - I own 2470WNX since 2 months - great great piece of monitor. I don't regret any penny
This topic helped me A LOT in making my decision. Good to see that it came alive after few months of "sleeping"
Cheers!
HeadHunter
n00b
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2007
- Messages
- 17
I think it's a matter of placebo effect with your feelings of lag.
Theoreticaly there is an influence of input lag, but 30 ms is unnoticable - unless you're a real hardcore gamer
On the other hand - have you checked and increased your computer's USB rate? Default Windows XP setting is 125 Hz for USB (system checks 125 times a second if there is a signal from input devices like mouse, tablet, joystick etc.). Maximum available is 1000 Hz - much much higher. Increasing this rate will improve accuracy (maybe speed) of your mouse.
To add two cents' worth - I own 2470WNX since 2 months - great great piece of monitor. I don't regret any penny
This topic helped me A LOT in making my decision. Good to see that it came alive after few months of "sleeping"
Cheers!
Thx, but I have Razer Copperhead => USB at 1000hz, and I'm sure that its not placebo :-(
Could it be just a bad piece?
Is there nobody who has the same experience???
EDIT: May be I have just the best reflexes in the world ;-)
EDIT 2: as you have mentioned usb rate - if you can feel diference between 125 hz ( 8 ms lag) and 500 hz ( 2 ms lag) (I can feel that), then it's obvious that you should feel 30-40 ms lag, isn't it??? Ok, I presume that only diference between 125 hz usb and 500 hz usb is the response time, but it should be as far as I know...
My mouse runs off the USB hub in the monitor. Mouserate checker shows I'm getting 125hz out of it. That's plenty for me. It's odd that Prad didn't get 125hz, though. I have a keyboard, mouse, Kensington USB Bluetooth adpater, and my Zune plugged into the hub on the monitor and the mouse is still running at 125hz, so I don't know what their problem was.
I was aware of limitations of USB hub in 2470 (after PRAD.DE review), but I've just checked my 2470's hub and it runs on the same rate as mouse connected directly to computer (currently 500 Hz).
It's not first thing which is not as bad as they (PRAD) stated in their review - "light streaks and Overdrive coronas" in games. I have not noticed any - maybe they used too high brightness setting (on defaul factory's setting it's 100% - way too much) - too much brightness kills tonal changes.
However it's a pitty that this hub is not capable of full bandwidth speed downloading. I connected my camera to it and it downloads photos about twice slower as connected directly to PC. One of very few cons.
HeadHunter - where is your mouse connected - directly to PC or to 2470's hub?
Have you tried with lower Hz settings (500, 250)?
Maybe it's really a matter of getting used to it - I switched to LCD six years ago so I may be "undersensitive".
On PRAD.DE they measured input lag and they say it's about 30 ms - or eve more when using monitors build in scaling chip. If you are playing on non native resolutions try scaling through graphic card rather than 2470.
The best way would be to use a fast (really fast) camera - like in bullet time capturing, and record both mouse and pointer on screen to have an ultimate proof. Some amteur digital cameras (even compacts) are capable of capturing movies with 60 frames per second (resolution 320x240) - but it may not be enough.
I'm realy curious how this case will end
It's not first thing which is not as bad as they (PRAD) stated in their review - "light streaks and Overdrive coronas" in games. I have not noticed any - maybe they used too high brightness setting (on defaul factory's setting it's 100% - way too much) - too much brightness kills tonal changes.
However it's a pitty that this hub is not capable of full bandwidth speed downloading. I connected my camera to it and it downloads photos about twice slower as connected directly to PC. One of very few cons.
HeadHunter - where is your mouse connected - directly to PC or to 2470's hub?
Have you tried with lower Hz settings (500, 250)?
Maybe it's really a matter of getting used to it - I switched to LCD six years ago so I may be "undersensitive".
On PRAD.DE they measured input lag and they say it's about 30 ms - or eve more when using monitors build in scaling chip. If you are playing on non native resolutions try scaling through graphic card rather than 2470.
The best way would be to use a fast (really fast) camera - like in bullet time capturing, and record both mouse and pointer on screen to have an ultimate proof. Some amteur digital cameras (even compacts) are capable of capturing movies with 60 frames per second (resolution 320x240) - but it may not be enough.
I'm realy curious how this case will end
hi everyone!
i've just returned my benq 241 wp because it was too bright and i couldn't fix it so it could both show the colors properly and not be blinding for my eyes. after 5 days of trying both hard and software settings and calibration i gave up.
so now i'm thinking of getting the nec 2470wnx - the pva panel. After reading many reviews as well as the forums - the reactions are mixed. all say it's great for graphics, text and designer programs. some say however it's very bad for games, with ghosting, overdrive artifacts etc, some say it's virtually unnoticeable. On paper it has the same characteristics as the benq i had (6 ms g-t-g, 16 ms full). However benq had many more positive reviews and that's why i got it and was happy with it if it wasn't for unbelievably bright white color. And since gaming and movies is why i'm getting this monitor my question is is it suitable for good decent gaming? Fast shooters like crysis, cs etc? How about watching action movies envolving fast movements on the screen?
Other then this nec - there aren't many 24" to choose from.. i know i don't want TN and i know i don't want to go beyond 700 euro (both nec and benq costs 660 euro here in Austria)
thx alot.
i've just returned my benq 241 wp because it was too bright and i couldn't fix it so it could both show the colors properly and not be blinding for my eyes. after 5 days of trying both hard and software settings and calibration i gave up.
so now i'm thinking of getting the nec 2470wnx - the pva panel. After reading many reviews as well as the forums - the reactions are mixed. all say it's great for graphics, text and designer programs. some say however it's very bad for games, with ghosting, overdrive artifacts etc, some say it's virtually unnoticeable. On paper it has the same characteristics as the benq i had (6 ms g-t-g, 16 ms full). However benq had many more positive reviews and that's why i got it and was happy with it if it wasn't for unbelievably bright white color. And since gaming and movies is why i'm getting this monitor my question is is it suitable for good decent gaming? Fast shooters like crysis, cs etc? How about watching action movies envolving fast movements on the screen?
Other then this nec - there aren't many 24" to choose from.. i know i don't want TN and i know i don't want to go beyond 700 euro (both nec and benq costs 660 euro here in Austria)
thx alot.
BenQ FP241W was the first 24'' which I was choosing from, but after I found a topic (over 200 pages) on this forum I left it with no regret (problems with proper aspect scaling, black out) - crap.
I must disappoint you - all current LCD's are too bright.. 2470 comes with default Brightness 100% and Contrast 50% setting - don't try to turn monitor on that settings in dark room.. On bright day I use usually 50 / 40 setting and at night - dark room with only small lamp on desk - 15 / 10 (sometimes even 0 / 0 - Web browsing on white background pages hurts my eyes..)
As I mentioned above - boys from PRAD made too much noise about overdrive problems in games - probably they played on default (100 / 50) setting so this is their problem.
There will always be a compromise when you choose - some LCD will be better for gaming (usually TN panels - less colors) and some for graphics (PVA, IPS).
Search for a local shop that has 2470 and see it live to your eyes - its better than reading 100 posts. Only so you can judge if it's too bright, input lag, etc.
I must disappoint you - all current LCD's are too bright.. 2470 comes with default Brightness 100% and Contrast 50% setting - don't try to turn monitor on that settings in dark room..
On bright day I use usually 50 / 40 setting and at night - dark room with only small lamp on desk - 15 / 10 (sometimes even 0 / 0 - Web browsing on white background pages hurts my eyes..)As I mentioned above - boys from PRAD made too much noise about overdrive problems in games - probably they played on default (100 / 50) setting so this is their problem.
There will always be a compromise when you choose - some LCD will be better for gaming (usually TN panels - less colors) and some for graphics (PVA, IPS).
Search for a local shop that has 2470 and see it live to your eyes - its better than reading 100 posts. Only so you can judge if it's too bright, input lag, etc.
funghi - thx for your quick reply.
the problem is here in Austria in shops there are only cheap (<300 euro) TN models, very very few 19" *VAs, let alone 24"... Another problem is that i can't use it for a week and if i don't like it give it back - I have to give for 5-10% less + sending cost - totaling about 50-60 euro for "seeing if it is ok with my eyes". The problem with benq was that when i played games it was fine. but when i alt+tabbed to see a web page and it was with white background my i got tears in my eyes and it was awful. I don't mind having settings to 10% of maximum as long as all the colors in the gamma are visible with this settings. Now, for instance, i have 15" TN tft samsung which is 8 years old. very poor, however i can play a dark game and then tab into white webpage or word doc without any problems or discomfort. now i want the same, but on *VA panel with 24"
funny you should mention - my settings for benq without eye hurting were 15 brightness and 30 contrast, but i wasn't able to see all the colors properly - the proper settings were 30/50, all colors visible, but white being blinding. does this nec has a similar issue? or is the full color spectrum visible at 10/15? Because when i turned down brightness and contrast in nec, white colors became normal again, but it was impossible to play a game in dark scenes because many darker colors were simply lost :\
the problem is here in Austria in shops there are only cheap (<300 euro) TN models, very very few 19" *VAs, let alone 24"... Another problem is that i can't use it for a week and if i don't like it give it back - I have to give for 5-10% less + sending cost - totaling about 50-60 euro for "seeing if it is ok with my eyes". The problem with benq was that when i played games it was fine. but when i alt+tabbed to see a web page and it was with white background my i got tears in my eyes and it was awful. I don't mind having settings to 10% of maximum as long as all the colors in the gamma are visible with this settings. Now, for instance, i have 15" TN tft samsung which is 8 years old. very poor, however i can play a dark game and then tab into white webpage or word doc without any problems or discomfort. now i want the same, but on *VA panel with 24"
funny you should mention - my settings for benq without eye hurting were 15 brightness and 30 contrast, but i wasn't able to see all the colors properly - the proper settings were 30/50, all colors visible, but white being blinding. does this nec has a similar issue? or is the full color spectrum visible at 10/15? Because when i turned down brightness and contrast in nec, white colors became normal again, but it was impossible to play a game in dark scenes because many darker colors were simply lost :\
HeadHunter
n00b
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- Dec 2, 2007
- Messages
- 17
HeadHunter - where is your mouse connected - directly to PC or to 2470's hub?
Have you tried with lower Hz settings (500, 250)?
Maybe it's really a matter of getting used to it - I switched to LCD six years ago so I may be "undersensitive".
On PRAD.DE they measured input lag and they say it's about 30 ms - or eve more when using monitors build in scaling chip. If you are playing on non native resolutions try scaling through graphic card rather than 2470.
The best way would be to use a fast (really fast) camera - like in bullet time capturing, and record both mouse and pointer on screen to have an ultimate proof. Some amteur digital cameras (even compacts) are capable of capturing movies with 60 frames per second (resolution 320x240) - but it may not be enough.
I'm realy curious how this case will end
My mouse is connected to pc directly... And I've tried to set usb to 125/500 hz too, nothing helps... Problem is within the display, so I hope I'll get used to it, another chance would be Nec 2490 (does it have input lag too? I mean it has a switchable overdrive....).
You dont have to use a camera for that, picture with stopwatches tells the truth - there definately is a lag...
eugene.b
" i have 15" TN tft samsung which is 8 years old ... i can play a dark game and then tab into white webpage or word doc without any problems or discomfort "
Mine is the same situation - my previous monitor was also 15'' LCD and my conclusions are similar. It was set to 60 / 60 ALL THE TIME - for gaming, working, web browsing. Now it's sometimes frustrating to play 3 - 5 times a day with Brightness / Contrast settings. But that's the only advantage of my old LCD.
" now i want the same, but on *VA panel with 24" "
It may be difficult... Most people say that 24 - 20 inch panels are bright. This technology (backlight) has come to its limits.
Now there are some new panels with LED backlight - I don't know anything if it's much better. It will take some time to improve LED backlight to make it perfect. And when it will become perfect (I guess: 3 - 5 years) - marketing guys will show us another technology OLED - and again it will take some time to make it perfect...
Yesterday I checked some sites with color test patterns to see how Brightness / Contrast settings influence on gamma, but I didn't have much time to do a proper tests, so maybe today late evening.
HeadHunter
I must admit I underestimated the problem of lag. I always treated this as "stretching it" or placebo effect. I visited a few sites and there is clear evidence (pictures of software stopwatch running on LCD and CRT connected in clone mode). I intend to make a similar test (got an old 15'' CRT) just for fun.
As I mentioned earlier - maybe 6 years of working with LCD made my eyes got used to it. But I understand your fears - in your case it's like moving from space rocket to a jet plane.. You'll probably get used to it too, but in your case there will be always an annoying thought that "it was once better".. IPS panels are better - but to be 100% sure you would need an 2490 and 2470 connected both to one PC and measured using stopwatch and using your personal feelings.
" i have 15" TN tft samsung which is 8 years old ... i can play a dark game and then tab into white webpage or word doc without any problems or discomfort "
Mine is the same situation - my previous monitor was also 15'' LCD and my conclusions are similar. It was set to 60 / 60 ALL THE TIME - for gaming, working, web browsing. Now it's sometimes frustrating to play 3 - 5 times a day with Brightness / Contrast settings. But that's the only advantage of my old LCD.
" now i want the same, but on *VA panel with 24" "
It may be difficult... Most people say that 24 - 20 inch panels are bright. This technology (backlight) has come to its limits.
Now there are some new panels with LED backlight - I don't know anything if it's much better. It will take some time to improve LED backlight to make it perfect. And when it will become perfect (I guess: 3 - 5 years) - marketing guys will show us another technology OLED - and again it will take some time to make it perfect...
Yesterday I checked some sites with color test patterns to see how Brightness / Contrast settings influence on gamma, but I didn't have much time to do a proper tests, so maybe today late evening.
HeadHunter
I must admit I underestimated the problem of lag. I always treated this as "stretching it" or placebo effect. I visited a few sites and there is clear evidence (pictures of software stopwatch running on LCD and CRT connected in clone mode). I intend to make a similar test (got an old 15'' CRT) just for fun.
As I mentioned earlier - maybe 6 years of working with LCD made my eyes got used to it. But I understand your fears - in your case it's like moving from space rocket to a jet plane.. You'll probably get used to it too, but in your case there will be always an annoying thought that "it was once better".. IPS panels are better - but to be 100% sure you would need an 2490 and 2470 connected both to one PC and measured using stopwatch and using your personal feelings.
You people really need to stop tempting me about getting a 2490 to go with my 2470WNX. I adjusted my desk and my 24WMCX looks fine now, so stop it!
Anywho, I could hook my gaming box up to the 2470WNX over VGA and play for a bit on it. I may do that since I wanna watch some Blu-ray movies on the 24WMCX via the PS3 while I play System Shock 2, but, well, I'll be testing System Shock 2 (albeit at 1600x1200).
The brightness thing is true. 50 constrast/35 brightness is what my 2470WNX is set to. Your eyes get used to it in less than two weeks, if that.
Anywho, I could hook my gaming box up to the 2470WNX over VGA and play for a bit on it. I may do that since I wanna watch some Blu-ray movies on the 24WMCX via the PS3 while I play System Shock 2, but, well, I'll be testing System Shock 2 (albeit at 1600x1200).
The brightness thing is true. 50 constrast/35 brightness is what my 2470WNX is set to. Your eyes get used to it in less than two weeks, if that.
HeadHunter
n00b
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2007
- Messages
- 17
You described it pretty well...
I have a question for all of you (owners of 24 s-pva), how do you feel when you sit in front of a crt? I was sitting in front of fw900 yesterday (friend has one which used to be mine), and it was shock, everything was much more responsive, I can hardly imagine how anyone can't notice that...
I got some time and I've just checked these test patterns:
http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/monitor_calibration.htm
http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/Calibration/monitor_black.htm
http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~adamsmd/color/
http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~adamsmd/color/blacktest.html
Light conditions - dim lit room (only christmas tree lights)
And there is a very good news - 2470 doesn't cut dramaticaly gamma when reducing brightness / contrast setting.
I tried 60 / 40 - the darkest patch I could notice was (2,2,2)
At 0 / 0 (yes) - the darkest patch I could notice was (3,3,3)
To quote " a typical monitor in a dimly lit room will not show anything until level 5-8 " -
My 6 year old 15'' LCD on www.cs.indiana.edu shows on almost all patches only black.. That's what I call progress..
Of course 0 / 0 setup makes white a little bit dark but this setup makes night web browsing much easier.
Colors look good and natural, even on lowest settings - check out these test patterns:
http://www.photoguild.ns.ca/events/calibration.html
Try with your's NEC's or if anybody has for example 24''' Dell - that would be a good comparison.
http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/monitor_calibration.htm
http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/Calibration/monitor_black.htm
http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~adamsmd/color/
http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~adamsmd/color/blacktest.html
Light conditions - dim lit room (only christmas tree lights)
And there is a very good news - 2470 doesn't cut dramaticaly gamma when reducing brightness / contrast setting.
I tried 60 / 40 - the darkest patch I could notice was (2,2,2)
At 0 / 0 (yes) - the darkest patch I could notice was (3,3,3)
To quote " a typical monitor in a dimly lit room will not show anything until level 5-8 " -
My 6 year old 15'' LCD on www.cs.indiana.edu shows on almost all patches only black.. That's what I call progress..
Of course 0 / 0 setup makes white a little bit dark but this setup makes night web browsing much easier.
Colors look good and natural, even on lowest settings - check out these test patterns:
http://www.photoguild.ns.ca/events/calibration.html
Try with your's NEC's or if anybody has for example 24''' Dell - that would be a good comparison.
I've been playing System Shock 2 all night on the 2470WNX and I'm not feeling any lag or seeing any streaking. I have vsync forced in my drivers so there's no tearing. If anything, it's a bit more vivid than the 24WMCX.
I tried Half-Life 2 for about 10 minutes as well (through part of A Red Letter Day). I'm not seeing any funky coronas from bright light sources against walls, dark or normally lit. Not really sure what they're talking about. I know if you overboost in-game gamma in HL2 or SS2 you'll get to see all the non-black colors used in a dark scene (purple, blue, etc), but that's true on CRT and LCD alike.
Maybe Prad had a bad monitor, or I'm just not sensitive enough to see the problems.
Color-wise, it works fine with Funghi's links. I get about the same results and I'm at 50% contrast, 25-35% brightness.
I tried Half-Life 2 for about 10 minutes as well (through part of A Red Letter Day). I'm not seeing any funky coronas from bright light sources against walls, dark or normally lit. Not really sure what they're talking about. I know if you overboost in-game gamma in HL2 or SS2 you'll get to see all the non-black colors used in a dark scene (purple, blue, etc), but that's true on CRT and LCD alike.
Maybe Prad had a bad monitor, or I'm just not sensitive enough to see the problems.
Color-wise, it works fine with Funghi's links. I get about the same results and I'm at 50% contrast, 25-35% brightness.
what about overdrive problems that people keep complaining about? what's that all about?
to Funghi:
thx for your tests - my old lcd shows those pictures as being 100% black/white so i see the point of getting a new one.
the only thing that bothers me is having to change the settings. are you saying that there's no ideal setting for both gaming and browsing white background pages? Can you store presets there so that you can change them with one button without having to adjust the levels manually? when you adjust settings so that your eyes don't hurt while browsing white pages, are alot of colors in darker games missing? (when i did so with benq - i could see about 30% of colors in World Of Warcraft)
to Funghi:
thx for your tests - my old lcd shows those pictures as being 100% black/white so i see the point of getting a new one.
the only thing that bothers me is having to change the settings. are you saying that there's no ideal setting for both gaming and browsing white background pages? Can you store presets there so that you can change them with one button without having to adjust the levels manually? when you adjust settings so that your eyes don't hurt while browsing white pages, are alot of colors in darker games missing? (when i did so with benq - i could see about 30% of colors in World Of Warcraft)
As IceStorm said "I'm not seeing any funky coronas from bright light sources against walls, dark or normally lit"
Maybe when I had more time for gaming I would make more observations, but I really suffer from lack of time.
System Shock 2 is a good test for black tones since this game takes place in dim, low lit corridors etc.
There is no option for making presets, but the best avaible solution for not playing too much with menu when willing to adjust brightness / gamma is to turn on HOT KEY option. Thanks to this a 4-way button (joystick like) becomes a shortcut for br / cont setting - press up / down for contrast and left / right for brightness. It's much easier than normal through menu digging: MENU / DOWN / LEFT or RIGHT (for brightness) and MENU / DOWN / DOWN / LEFT or RIGHT (for contrast)
Maybe when I had more time for gaming I would make more observations, but I really suffer from lack of time.
System Shock 2 is a good test for black tones since this game takes place in dim, low lit corridors etc.
There is no option for making presets, but the best avaible solution for not playing too much with menu when willing to adjust brightness / gamma is to turn on HOT KEY option. Thanks to this a 4-way button (joystick like) becomes a shortcut for br / cont setting - press up / down for contrast and left / right for brightness. It's much easier than normal through menu digging: MENU / DOWN / LEFT or RIGHT (for brightness) and MENU / DOWN / DOWN / LEFT or RIGHT (for contrast)