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NEC LCD2470WNX
- Thread starter Manny Calavera
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Manny Calavera
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Do you still own the Dell 2005fpw, or are you going by memory? Did you do a side-by-side comparison?
Side by side.And yes I still own it
Good job with the pics, although you probably should've used flash throughout since you were in a pretty dimly lit room--lots of camera shake in the early unpacking photos.
That camera is old and of low res ccd,I drink coffee like its going out of style
You'll excuse me if I don't entirely trust your color judgment, since as you stated yourself you're not a photographerI have an NEC 2070NX (S-IPS), so I agree that NEC makes some quality stuff, but the panel in the 2470WNX worries me since I do a lot of photo editing and need a monitor that has low/no color shift across the entire panel as well as reasonably accurate color rendition. I don't do absolutely color-critical work, but I want my photo colors to be as accurate as possible.
You also mentioned that the NEC is better than the Dell 2407 in image quality. Can you elaborate on this? How is it better, and how much better? Thanks for all the info, Manny.
Hard to say how much better,but out of the box it was noticeably better,and did not need anywhere as much configuring
edit: Thanks for teh comment about the pics,but the flash was used some and it wrecked the pics,at least the ones I tried to take.This if anything,has taught me to buy a high res CCD,high qualtiy digi cam asap.
Manny Calavera
2[H]4U
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Obviously cost is an issue(nothing wrong with that..) get the Dell.I bought a A04,one of the first in Canada,if not the first,and it had 0 dead pixels and I still sent it back.You get what you pay for.
Very true about the extra res (19x12) showing the defects in the standard dvd resolution off,and not in a good way.I sit about 24 to 27" away from my 2470.My wife sits about 3 to 4 feet away from hers.
the LG seemed to soften artifacts. perhaps it because of it's semi-gloss coating? the NEC's coating i've noticed has a graininess to it; i can see the same grain as i move windows and pictures across the screen. even now my solid turquoise background seems to "twinkle". i'm not really sure how to explain it. add this twinkling and the artifacts of compressed video and perhaps one gets the nightmare i'm getting on especially my divx movies. the colors look worse, the macroblocks look even blockier.. lol.. people faces are crawling with artifacts now! the skin tones on faces have more shades than i remember. that freaked me out the first time. maybe i'm seeing what was always there but just noticed it. the whole thing is just weird. i'll play with the settings some more. can anyone suggest settings i can use for movies? thanks.
hey Manny Calavera, what was bad about the dell and what was good?
about using my 19" NEC for comparison. i was using it at 1920x1200 in panning mode (i think that's what it's called..) i know the dot pitch is different, but the difference was overwhelming in the ability to soften artifacts. i think the OptiClear makes a huge difference.. i've used the 20WMGX2 that has a lower dot pitch than the 2470WNX and movies looked great... actually... when i bought this monitor i thought it had OptiClear.. whoops... =T but now that i know how much an OptiClear version would cost..... >_<
I was able to pick up a new in box L246W on ebay for $420. i was gonna use that money to upgrade my rig, but i am weak
. i'll be able to do a side by side comparison when it gets here.Have you looked at the 24" Gateway? To me, the Gateway looks incredibly sparkly/grainy...like there's tiny crystals embedded in the screen or something. This would drive me nuts. So I am curious if the effect you are talking about is something like that?
On the other hand, my wife has a Lenovo T61 with the Flexview S-IPS screen that lots of people claim looks "sparkly", but that one looks fine to me (although I think I can see what they are talking about, but it is not annoying...the Gateway is super annoying).
Mofongo
i had the 24" gateway for a few days. it's grainy, like the 21" version, but i never had a chance to really test it. i couldn't get the brightness down far enough for it not to hurt my eyes. my eyes were red from the first couple days of usage. on the 21" gateway my divx movies looked good, a lot like my Samsung 215TW which shares the same panel. the coating is different and not grainy.
YES, that's the effect i'm talking about. I tried playing a WMV 1280x720p videos. took about two hours to view them. from what i can see... in brighter scenes, it looks fine. in darker scenes, the dark areas show twinkling. and there a lot of pixels moving around on people's faces like mosquito noise. strange since i've never really noticed them before. i think i should check my video card and drivers before continuing.
i'll keep testing though. thanks for the info on the gateway 24"
do the Benq, LG, NEC, Gateway and Dell all use the same panel?
Not sure about the NEC, but the BenQ and LG use the same AU Optronics P-MVA panel, and the Dell and Gateway use a Samsung S-PVA panel.
I am beginning to think that one of the main flaws of the NEC is the lack of connections. I've been switching back and fourth from PC to my 360 with the DVI connections and it has been killing my ass to do so. It is such an irritation to unhook the device on the back, twist those two knobs and then hook up the new connection every time I play and then back onto my PC. Is there an easier way that I am overlooking?
ah and there is no PIP in the NEC, is there?
i think i'd find a good use for that, i have a second rig which could use the d-sub input, so having my main rig on hdmi (to dvi) would allow me to use them both at once. i'm doing lots of operating system programming on that second rig, so being able to do tests on small part of the screen would be really, really nice.
I can use the PIP like I've described above, right?
i think i'd find a good use for that, i have a second rig which could use the d-sub input, so having my main rig on hdmi (to dvi) would allow me to use them both at once. i'm doing lots of operating system programming on that second rig, so being able to do tests on small part of the screen would be really, really nice.
I can use the PIP like I've described above, right?
Hmm...the mosquito noise could be due to a variety of things. The first is that it could really be in the movie itself. A good test for this would be to get a new, animated movie (like Shrek 2 or Cars) and watch it. Animated movies, since they are not transferred from film to digital, tend not to have any mosquito noise in them (although they can still have mpeg artifacts [like macroblocking] but these tend to artificially flatten things out).
Or it could come from some sort of dynamic contrast processing that the monitor itself is doing. Or it could be a combination (i.e. mosquito noise is really there in the movie, but the monitor's dynamic contrast it stretching out the difference between the two input RGB values and making it more noticeable).
Mofongo
You could use a DVI-D M/F extension cable to bring the connection to a place where it is easier to swap them back and forth.
I am using this solution myself when I was using a friends PS3 on my Dell 2407WFP and so far have perceived no degredation in image quality either with the PC or the PS3.
Here is a link to the one I purchased from MonoPrice, http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10209&cs_id=1020903&p_id=243&seq=1&format=2&style=. Despite it being described as beige, I received a black cable of the same quaility as the other DVI-D cables.
There's an easier way...
An HDMI switcher like this one http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...cs_id=1011001&p_id=2786&seq=1&format=2&style=
And 2 DVI-HDMI cable, or one for the computer and another HDMI-? for the Xbox.
Hey senakun, I need more info. When I read your complaint about the NEC "twinkle" I was surprised b/c it was the first serious negative comment about the 2470. I looked back over the prior replies and found yours from 5/11 stating you had a whole row of bad pixels and you were sending the NEC back.
Are these twinkles you speak of part of what you saw on the flawed NEC that you returned or is this being repeated on your replacement monitor?
Have any other owners of NEC 2470 had similar experiences w/movies? I was going to pull the trigger on the NEC tomorrow but now I want to know more about this "flaw."
Thanks,
hey shaftoe. it's not a whole row across the screen, but a segment about half-inch wide. i'm not sure why it twinkles like that.. maybe mine has a bad coating on it or something. i was able to make my divx movies look a little better by turning down the 3d sharpening effects.
anyway, i'm finally sending it back tomorrow for another one. it appears that other people are happy with their own. maybe i got a dud. i have 2 other NEC monitors and they're great.
That is a good question! I went to the NEC site in Australia and Googled it with no luck. I know there must be a model with the WNX suffice because I saw the model names 2690 and 2490WNX on a Japanese site yesterday. I just figured it was probably the Asia version of the WUXi that has a H-IPS display.
Let me get this straight, that Switch has HDMI-out, HDMI-in, HDMI-in. So what I need to do is:
1) HDMI-out (360) to HDMI-in (switch)
2) HDMI-out (switch) to DVI-in (Monitor)
3) DVI-out (computer-videocard) to HDMI-in (switch)
If so, then I just need to buy another HDMI-DVI cable and the switchbox. Can somebody confirm this connection to make sure that it works?
i found them on the global nec site. turns out the 90 is like 12bit or something and a real professional monitor.
these are the links for the 70 and 90
http://www.necdisplay.com/Products/Product/?product=b1d27b7f-8729-4292-b5f2-922a1c8f63bc
http://www.necdisplay.com/Products/Product/?product=a46240bd-a846-4de7-b644-bd7f0b7e6ece
plus i sent them a message and got this reply
NEC email said:
i am trying to get the prices for the 2470, and info on teh NEC pixel warranty
I currently have a Dell 2405 (original rev.-PVA) and need to replace it. It is a nightmare to work with Photoshop because of the color shifts that I see (big shifts even with the head moving just an inch or two). I have been scared to upgrade to an S-PVA model because I do not want the same problem again. Would there be a noticeable big improvement in color shift between and old PVA and the new S-PVA panel in this monitor?
I don't have the Nec, but do have the 2407 S-PVA. And from what I've read, the 'color shift' is inherent in the panel technology (i.e. S-PVA) so you'd have to go to S-IPS to get away from it. I'm also getting 'color shifting' on my S-PVA just for the record. It doesn't bother me too much since I don't do any photo editing (and have low standards), but it does get a bit annoying in images that are fairly dark. I know the Nec 20" is S-IPS, heard this 24" is too (edit: scratch that, this model doesn't).
LCD2490WUXi-BK is the 24 inch with S-IPS
I was able to pick up a new in box L246W on ebay for $420. i was gonna use that money to upgrade my rig, but i am weak
Don't you already have LG??
Eagerly awaiting your side by side comparison if you do have both monitors.
Also a general question: I'm pretty concerned with color-shifting on these PVA panels. Is it pretty noticeable? I like to slouch left or right while surfing the internet sometimes, so I would be viewing the monitor from an angle at times. How do the P-MVA panels like LG compare in this aspect?
Don't you already have LG??
Eagerly awaiting your side by side comparison if you do have both monitors.
Also a general question: I'm pretty concerned with color-shifting on these PVA panels. Is it pretty noticeable? I like to slouch left or right while surfing the internet sometimes, so I would be viewing the monitor from an angle at times. How do the P-MVA panels like LG compare in this aspect?
i HAD it.. for 600.. but returned it.. then i saw this one on ebay for around 420.. so i bit. sadly the guy's paypal account got broken into and they refunded everyone who just won one of his auctions their money. he said he'll hold it til they reinstate his paypal account though.
what it color shifting? i know the colors change a little if u are viewing from an angle... even the brightness of the backlight can change depending on the angle. i don't think it bothers me. then again, i've never seen an lcd where something didn't change when viewed at an angle. haven't tried s-ips though.
Is there a correlation between color shift and viewing angle? My Dell 2405 (LTM240M1_L01 panel) has a viewing angle of 89 degrees and the color shift is very bad. The 2470 has a viewing angle of 178 degrees. Does that mean that there will be less color shift?
Most monitors specifications show either + or - viewing angles, or just a flat out overall viewing angle. 89+89=178 so thats the same.
WicKeDcHilD
Gawd
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I wish this monitor had the same silver/black look as the 20wmgx2, i have two and would love to sit this one in between the two
Manny Calavera
2[H]4U
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I wish this monitor had the same silver/black look as the 20wmgx2, i have two and would love to sit this one in between the two
There are a few places here in Ottawa that have it in Silver/Black combo's colors... instead of just Black/Black
I just watched Hitchcock's The Birds on DVD and again for the 100th time saw NO sparkling at all.And,jeeze people,saying a screen is 'flawed' because it does not have
a enough inputs,is just plain insane.It is what it is,no more NO less.
Thats like faulting a Ferrari,because it only has a 12 cylinder engine and not a 16 cylinder engine...
I again have seen Zero sparkling (and yes I am well aware of what is people are talking about,as I have seen it on other LCD's many times) This one does not exhibit this trait at all.WicKeDcHilD
Gawd
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Manny, what stores were they at? Im in alberta so hopefully i can find it here too...
Manny is the only one who specifically mentined this so far so I will ask others. Does this monitor definitely not have the contrast/color-shifting which other PVAs (2407WFP, Gateway 2485W) have? Especially anyone who has had one of those other monitors and knows what I'm talking about could comment I'd appreciate it.
i have both the LG and th NEC side by side now... not bad,, but i think my old veteran 9500 pro can't handle it thru vga. looks a but blurry. anyway i hooked both up to my 1900xt which had dual DVI. hear a couple things i've observed so far:
- LG stand goes 2 inches higher NEC stand can go 2 inches lower and smoother to operate
- LG screen coating is smooth, while the NEC's is smooth but kinda slick
- LG does not have that sparkly look on my turqoise color desktop like the NEC, it doesn't seem to bother me as much anymore though.... i can see a little bit of grain but not nearly as much as the NEC
- for the most part movies appear darker on the LG and on the NEC images appear brighter. i was watching a 720p avi file where the nights scenes looked horrible on the NEC. on the LG, they still look horrible i guess it's badly encoded. i tried to play with the NEC settings but i couldn't get things to look as dark as the LG. one particular part of the movie shows the moon.. and the banding of the moonlight stretches twice as far on the NEC than the LG. the LG seemed to soften artifacts as i had experienced previously.
- i used to think the text was blurry cuz the monitor had problems, but it was probably my eyes.. the LG backlight seems to get a lot brighter than the NEC. the NEC has a text DV mode that's perfect for me. on the LG i have to play with settings.. putting it in sRGB and lowering brightness to around 20 works okay, but the text seems a bit fuzzy to me, but when i raise the brightness, my eyes don't like it when i have to read text, esp on a white background with a bright backlight. the NEC shows really sharp text with low backlight. even has sharpness settings in the OSD menu.
so far that's all i can think of.. i kinda like the darker versions of things. hides a lot of encoding artifacts when watching movies and dvd's. i'll keep playin with the settings for now. anything i can test for you guys? sorry if my methods are not very systematic or whatever
- LG stand goes 2 inches higher
NEC stand can go 2 inches lower and smoother to operate- LG screen coating is smooth, while the NEC's is smooth but kinda slick
- LG does not have that sparkly look on my turqoise color desktop like the NEC, it doesn't seem to bother me as much anymore though.... i can see a little bit of grain but not nearly as much as the NEC
- for the most part movies appear darker on the LG and on the NEC images appear brighter. i was watching a 720p avi file where the nights scenes looked horrible on the NEC. on the LG, they still look horrible
i guess it's badly encoded. i tried to play with the NEC settings but i couldn't get things to look as dark as the LG. one particular part of the movie shows the moon.. and the banding of the moonlight stretches twice as far on the NEC than the LG. the LG seemed to soften artifacts as i had experienced previously.- i used to think the text was blurry cuz the monitor had problems, but it was probably my eyes.. the LG backlight seems to get a lot brighter than the NEC. the NEC has a text DV mode that's perfect for me. on the LG i have to play with settings.. putting it in sRGB and lowering brightness to around 20 works okay, but the text seems a bit fuzzy to me, but when i raise the brightness, my eyes don't like it when i have to read text, esp on a white background with a bright backlight. the NEC shows really sharp text with low backlight. even has sharpness settings in the OSD menu.
so far that's all i can think of.. i kinda like the darker versions of things. hides a lot of encoding artifacts when watching movies and dvd's. i'll keep playin with the settings for now. anything i can test for you guys? sorry if my methods are not very systematic or whatever
senakun - any comment on this please?
Basically does the contrast or brightness level change or appear washed out at the edges but not in the center with your eyes centered, or vice versa appears washed out on center and better at the edge of your view (the bad PVAs do one or the other depending upon brightness and contrast settings.) Does it ever appear to have an odd 'shininess' toward the edges on any backgrounds like the [H] forum ? (inconsistent contrast) Manny is the only one who has commented on this so far and second+ opinions are always good, wondering about the NEC btw since that's what this thread is about. You can move your head from side-to-side across the monitor while keeping your focus straight ahead to change your viewing angle relative to different parts of the screen to test this as well.You should try with a DVD or download a well-encoded 1080p movie like the ones MS has up somewhere.
I just got my NEC 2470 Tuesday. Haven't tried to put it thru any rigorous testing just having fun w/it right now. This is my first LCD monitor so I don't have a sense of comparison but my amateur impression is that I got the right monitor. Images are pleasing, richly colored. I haven't even adjusted the settings yet. The one game I tried, Call of Duty, looked great. No ghosting to my eyes. C of D doesn't have a setting for 1900/1200 so I set on 1600/1200 and still got a full screen wo/any distortion.
Re the question of of color/contrast shift, I think I see some. When looking directly at the center of the screen the far edges seem to be ever so slightly paler. It is so slight that I'm not sure I should mention it. Actually I hadn't noticed it until reading this thread and looking at the gray bars of the forum banners. The black does not fade at all. I'm not sure what I just said is helpful. I just tried the same test on the blue banner at the very top of the Explorer page and see no shift at all.
Sorry I can't be more helpful except I'm thrilled w/my NEC. Text is easy to read, colors look great and it looks like my FPS games are going to work well. And I haven't even tried to optimize anything yet.
Edit:
I realized I had run the wrong C of D to see how the wide screen works so I loaded C of D 2 and set up for 19x12. What a treat. I wear trifocals and the lens correction on my glasses just covers the breadth of the wide screen so the screen ends up being my entire range of corrected vision. Wow. But given my vision limitation I don't think I'm a reliable source for assessing color/contrast shift.
Re the question of of color/contrast shift, I think I see some. When looking directly at the center of the screen the far edges seem to be ever so slightly paler. It is so slight that I'm not sure I should mention it. Actually I hadn't noticed it until reading this thread and looking at the gray bars of the forum banners. The black does not fade at all. I'm not sure what I just said is helpful. I just tried the same test on the blue banner at the very top of the Explorer page and see no shift at all.
Sorry I can't be more helpful except I'm thrilled w/my NEC. Text is easy to read, colors look great and it looks like my FPS games are going to work well. And I haven't even tried to optimize anything yet.
Edit:
I realized I had run the wrong C of D to see how the wide screen works so I loaded C of D 2 and set up for 19x12. What a treat. I wear trifocals and the lens correction on my glasses just covers the breadth of the wide screen so the screen ends up being my entire range of corrected vision. Wow. But given my vision limitation I don't think I'm a reliable source for assessing color/contrast shift.
enabled. the LG looks a lot better with it ClearType disabled and comes closer to the NEC's text sharpness. i think the lower intensity backlight (or at least it feels that way) of the NEC makes things easier on my eyes when reading.. especially in TEXT mode.
senakun - any comment on this please?
You should try with a DVD or download a well-encoded 1080p movie like the ones MS has up somewhere.
is color shifting when the color gets softer as the viewing angle increases? the colors get a little bit duller as i look at the screen from more to the side. which one does it more the other, i can't really tell right now. they seem even with what the stuff i've played on them so far. my sisters watch movies on it together each sitting on one side of the screen and it doesn't bother them. the change in color seems pretty slight. for watching movies anyway... i do photo editing so i don't know if this would be hell for someone who does photoshop if the colors change from one shade to another.
I tried a 720p (Song to the Sun, tv drama), 1080p (The Magic of Flight 1080) and DVD movie (The Pacifier). The look about the same. the NEC colors seem more natural at default settings. the LG show more red. a person's hat that was blueish gray on the NEC looked purple on the LG. The pilot in The Magic of Flight 1080 video had rosy cheeks on the LG. if i turn the red down to around 90 i get something comparable but not quite. everyone looks a little unnaturally pale now