NEC LCD2470WNX

romeo2180 said:
The contrast is the best I've seen on any unit

The stand is as good as it gets. Believe me, this unit can be maneuvered with ease. Perfect.

OSD mode change notifiers are annoying. These are the little pop-up windows that appear every time the monitor changes state, i.e. resolution, wake-up, shut down, etc. Need to able to turn these off.

Lag: I must really stink at gaming because I really don't see it. I've been playing COD4 and have no problem aiming sites, zeroing in quickly and triggering where I pointed. If it's there, it's not affecting my gameplay. Maybe I don't notice because of this:
Click to expand...

I agree on the contrast. Despite the given 1000:1, PRAD actually found it be more like 1400:1. As far as brightness goes, my friend's Planar PX2611W (IPS) is too bright even at 0, but the NEC looks great up to about 75, and also has a low brightness mode if you want it. The stand and ergonomics are the best I've seen on any monitor ever. The notifiers can indeed be turned off, in fact mine came that way by default.

Don't worry about lag; I compared scores for every single 24" non-TN available, and the NEC 2470 has the lowest input lag of the bunch (2 frames or less average), matched only by the NEC 2490, BenQ FP241W, and LG L245/246. Now add to that the fact that the 2470 also has the fastest possible response time for its class (6ms), and you just cannot get a faster 24" non-TN.

In fact, if you compare the stats, there is only one better 24" non-TN, and that's the $1100 NEC 2490 (IPS). The 2470 has the highest brightness and contrast ratio, fastest response time, and lowest input lag in its class. Its only weakness is the lack of extra A/V inputs (which I don't need) and speakers, and the speakers you can get for an extra fee (NEC Soundbar 20W). Check for yourself; here is every 24" non-TN available when I bought my 2470. Numbers came from the manufacturers, except for input lag (PRAD, TFT Central, BeHardware) and price (NewEgg):

Model (Price): Panel type, Primary Digital Input, Brightness, Contrast Ratio, Viewing Angles, Response Time, Input Lag

1. NEC MultiSync LCD2490WUXi ($1139): H-IPS, DVI-D w/HDCP, 400 cd/m2, 800:1, 178o, 8ms; lag=33ms (2 Frames).

2. NEC MultiSync LCD2470WNX ($719): S-PVA, DVI-D w/HDCP, 500 cd/m2, 1000:1, 176o, 6ms; lag=23.5 min-33ms av (1.5-2 Frames).

3. Dell 2407 WFP-HC ($699): S-PVA, DVI-D w/HDCP, 400 cd/m2, 1000:1, 178o, 6ms; lag=34.3ms or 30 min-34 av-50ms max (2-3 Frames).

4. BenQ FP241W ($639): P-MVA, DVI/HDMI w/HDCP, 500 cd/m2, 1000:1, 178o, 6ms; lag=33.7ms or 24 min-33 av-52ms max (1.5-3 Frames).

5. LG L245WP/L246WP ($629/649): P-MVA, HDMI w/HDCP, 500 cd/m2, 1000:1, 178o, 8ms; lag=23-33ms (1.5-2 Frames)

6. ViewSonic VX2435WM ($659-100 R=559): S-MVA, HDMI w/HDCP, 500 cd/m2, 1000:1, 176o, 8ms; lag=36.3ms or 41 min-51 av-59 max (2-3+ Frames)

7. Samsung 245T ($649): S-PVA, DVI-D w/HDCP, 300 cd/m2, 1000:1, 178o, 6ms; lag=58.8ms or 42 min-58 av-68 max (2.5-4 Frames)

8. HP LP2465 ($604): S-PVA, DVI-I, 500 cd/m2, 1000:1, 178o, 6ms; lag=50ms (3 Frames)

9. Planar PX2411W ($589): S-PVA, DVI, 450 cd/m2, 1000:1, 178o, 6ms; lag=?
 
So, I got this monitor, and while there is no ghosting in the regular Native mode, once I change to sRGB I get some pretty bad inverse ghosting. Anyone else getting this same problem?

EDIT: nevermind, slight ghosting in all modes. Colors are great, but whoever said this monitor doesn't ghost must not have moved any windows around and looked too hard.

EDIT2: Greys give a nasty pink trail in srgb mode. In native mode there is just a slight amount of ghosting. Annoying enough while gaming to cause slight flickers if the frame rates drop below 60

For comparison I have a gateway FPD2485W.

the NEC kills it in color reproduction and black/dark grey reproductions
 
notnyt said:
So, I got this monitor, and while there is no ghosting in the regular Native mode, once I change to sRGB I get some pretty bad inverse ghosting. Anyone else getting this same problem?

EDIT: nevermind, slight ghosting in all modes. Colors are great, but whoever said this monitor doesn't ghost must not have moved any windows around and looked too hard.

EDIT2: Greys give a nasty pink trail in srgb mode. In native mode there is just a slight amount of ghosting. Annoying enough while gaming to cause slight flickers if the frame rates drop below 60

For comparison I have a gateway FPD2485W.

the NEC kills it in color reproduction and black/dark grey reproductions
Click to expand...


You can see ghosting? Check to make sure Overdrive is on. You'll have to enable advanced mode.

Power off the monitor, then press and hold input and power. It'll give you a TON of options in the OCD at that point. The 4th or 5th screen has the option to turn on Overdrive.

Personally I don't see any ghosting with it on or off.
 
Stanley Pain said:
You can see ghosting? Check to make sure Overdrive is on. You'll have to enable advanced mode.

Power off the monitor, then press and hold input and power. It'll give you a TON of options in the OCD at that point. The 4th or 5th screen has the option to turn on Overdrive.

Personally I don't see any ghosting with it on or off.
Click to expand...

Thanks I'll have to check this out when I get home from work. Didn't know about that.

All I did was plug monitor in, turn to sRGB and theres some inverse ghosting from overdrive (pink trails on grey, little green sometimes too).
 
That's the same kind of ghosting reported on the Dell 2407WFP, and I've also seen the same on the EIZO CE240W. In both cases, the color settings affected the severity of the ghosting. On the EIZO, the problem was only severe when the colors weren't set to native, which is the same as setting the RGB settings to 100%. It sounds like this monitor is the same way.
 
I've tried it on sRGB, and yes I moved windows around, ran the PassMark Monitor Test, PixPerAn, and so on. No ghosting in any mode. Just out of curiosity, whats the manufacture date on the back?

From what I've read, the Dell 2407 HC is the one with inverse ghosting, not the original Dell 2407. The NEC doesn't use the same panel as the HC.
 
The original Dell 2407WFP had red/green ghosting that varied depending on the color settings, which is not the same as the inverse ghosting on the Dell 2407WFP-HC.
 
ToastyX said:
The original Dell 2407WFP had red/green ghosting that varied depending on the color settings, which is not the same as the inverse ghosting on the Dell 2407WFP-HC.
Click to expand...

OK, I'm off to see if I can find some ghosting...

EDIT: I just tried it again in sRGB mode, and still no ghosting, even with grays. As for Native, I've played multiple games and never seen any flickering, even when the frame rate was well below 60 fps. ToastyX, I know the Dell used the same panel, ar at least an older revision of it, but what panel does the Eizo use?
 
Stanley Pain said:
You can see ghosting? Check to make sure Overdrive is on. You'll have to enable advanced mode.

Power off the monitor, then press and hold input and power. It'll give you a TON of options in the OCD at that point. The 4th or 5th screen has the option to turn on Overdrive.

Personally I don't see any ghosting with it on or off.
Click to expand...

Are you sure its power and input? When I do that on mine, the only additional option I get is Low Brightness mode.
 
The EIZO has the same panel as the Dell, but I don't know how many revisions exist for this panel. Samsung keeps changing the panel, and the revisions make their way into the same models.
 
Stanley Pain said:
You can see ghosting? Check to make sure Overdrive is on. You'll have to enable advanced mode.

Power off the monitor, then press and hold input and power. It'll give you a TON of options in the OCD at that point. The 4th or 5th screen has the option to turn on Overdrive.

Personally I don't see any ghosting with it on or off.
Click to expand...

All I get is a low brightness option.
 
on back of monitor I see revision A1 and model L246H3.

Theres also a date tag that says 2007.11

I emailed them yesterday and I haven't heard back. I'll try to call them during the day tomorrow.

I reckon I'll keep RMAing it until I get one that doesn't suck.
 
Stanley Pain said:
I have a 2690WUXi so the options might be a bit different.
Click to expand...
Then why are you in here telling people you don't see any ghosting? This is a totally different monitor.
 
got the monitor just now. very little ghosting visible indeed when moving mouse cursor over the desktop but that's about it. haven't noticed any visible (to my eyes) lag in either Crysis or WoW.

Tried those 2 games so far - Crysis and WoW. both 1920*1200. crysis at high/medium specs - sometimes fps drops below playable, but that's a different story hehe. no problems there. everything beautiful. wow - same thing. currently have settings at 50 contrast/25 brightness - with every shade of black/white still visible. so far everything great. white doesn't hurt my eyes so far.

what really impressed me is the level of blacks. in my monitor, black is almost the same as if the monitor was completely turned off. no bleed whatsoever, no dead pixels. all in all - very very pleased. hope my eyes won't start hurting after 5 days of work, as they did with benq 241wz. the only thing i dislike about the monitor is that it can't be raised high enough on its stand. you can still do pivot, but you have to turn the monitor towards you. other than that - very good. thx to all for advice. if anyone has questions or wants some tests done - please either PM or write here. will be happy to assist. I definitely like this one more then the benq i had. colors simply can't be matched and the design is prettier too.
 
talked to nec, waiting to talk to a level 2 tech. apparently one of the 2 called in sick today.

Monitor was made in Nov 2007.

If I wanted to deal with pink bars I would have bought a dell.. grr.

They'll RMA it I just hope I don't get another one with the same issue. I'll update more once I talk to a level2 tech.

EDIT: so I called back and the other level 2 tech was in training and I was unable to speak with him (had to call twice because the db on the phone decided to just blind transfer me to voicemail). I just set it up for an "MRA" (apparently RMA doesn't work for them).

I emailed in about 3 days ago and I still have received no response.

I'll post another update when I receive the new monitor. Perhaps they switched to shitty panels somewhere along the way?
 
I wonder if I get another crappy display if I can upgrade to the IPS panel through them... heres hoping I get one with no ghosting/trails/flickers.
 
Mine was made in July, 2007, and I don't have any ghosting like what you describe. I run in sRGB mode.

If you're using Vista, windows have a slight shadow to them on their edges. That won't account for the color blotches you're seeing, but it would account for something that looks like inverse ghosting, perhaps.

I'm dragging around the [H] forum window and the greys in the default theme aren't blotching pink. Is there something else I should test dragging with?

I do see overbright ghost edges when I have "show window contents when dragging" turned on. It's not black, but bright white. I see them when dragging across a white background. It's more of a corona than a ghost. I don't see the corona when I drag across black backgrounds, though. It's a bright white for white objects on white objects, so that things like the white address bar in Firefox show a slight white overbright corona/shadow in the opposite direction of movement. Drag right, you see the corona to the left of the edge of the white section. You can see it with a white mouse pointer, too. I've never noticed it before, and it doesn't happen on the TN-based LCD24WMCX.

The 2407WNX does not have an advanced menu with Overdrive enable/disable options, at least not that I'm aware of.
 
I took a bunch of pictures illustrating the problem. here goes.. monitor is "factory reset" then put into sRGB mode.

GREEN/PINK ghosting..
1.jpg


some inverse ghosting and green ghosting
2.jpg


more pink and green ghosting
3.jpg


video of ghosting in action coming soon.
 
I don't see any pink and green ghosting in the FedEx images you've posted, just after-images of the FedEx text. Purple, like Package/Envelope, shows a lighter shade after image. Grey, like Freight, shows a lighter shade after image. As those are shots with a camera, that may simply be a function of how the pictures are taken.

When moving around the actual FedEx I only see the white coronas when swirling or dragging the FedEx site window.

What matters to me is what my eye sees, and my eye's not seeing pink or green coronas around anything, nor inverse ghosting. Try as I might, I can't get black to show up when scrolling the white-on-grey text as you are showing in your pictures. I'm in DV Standard mode, 35% brightness, 50% contrast, using a Huey Pro-generated color profile and have auto-correction enabled so that every 15 minutes it re-evaluates based on room lighting.

If I toggle to other DV modes, I get different shades of coronas. Text is white. All the rest are aqua.

Either my eyes are not sensitive enough, your panel's got issues, or it's way out of whack, calibration-wise. Hopefully an RMA fixes it for you. If not, there's always TN, but the light/dark gradients are annoying to me. Nevertheless, dragging the FedEx window around on my TN panel shows no coronas whatsoever.
 
I hate TN panels, I just gave one of my TN's to my girl. I love the colors on the PVA panel, but its not just my eyes seeing it. I just took some video with the camera so you can see the extent.

100% brightness, 50% contrast just as out of the box. It's not as bad in native mode, but it's still there. Any color adjustments made make the ghosting worse.

you can see it the worst around 35 seconds in and 55 seconds in.

http://countercultured.net/pics/2470/ghosting.wmv

in games it presents itself as an obnoxious flicker while the colors refresh or are temporarily too bright. if something light walks across a dark background, you see the inverse ghosting as a dark shadow follows behind it. It's much easier to see in real life than in the video as my camera only captures 30fps.
 
notnyt said:
I hate TN panels, I just gave one of my TN's to my girl. I love the colors on the PVA panel, but its not just my eyes seeing it. I just took some video with the camera so you can see the extent.

100% brightness, 50% contrast just as out of the box. It's not as bad in native mode, but it's still there. Any color adjustments made make the ghosting worse.

you can see it the worst around 35 seconds in and 55 seconds in.

http://countercultured.net/pics/2470/ghosting.wmv

in games it presents itself as an obnoxious flicker while the colors refresh or are temporarily too bright. if something light walks across a dark background, you see the inverse ghosting as a dark shadow follows behind it. It's much easier to see in real life than in the video as my camera only captures 30fps.
Click to expand...

I can see what you mean. That would probably drive me crazy as well :(
 
Hi !

I've made some experiments with trying to get this ghosting effect and I got similar results to yours (I was using your FedEx page link).

So here are my observations:

DV set to Standard, RGB set to sRGB.

- Contrast set to 50 % (factory setting) and there really is purple ghosting
- Contrast set to 45 % and purple becomes green ghosting
- Contrast set to 40 % green ghosting almost unnoticable (but still is)
- Contrast set to 35 % - NO GHOSTING
- Contrast set to 55 % and above - no green and purple ghosting, but there is starting to show white ghosting




DV set to Standard, RGB set to Native.

- Contrast set to 50 % (factory setting) and there is some white ghosting
- Contrast set to 45 % and more white ghosting (yes - surprisingly)
- Contrast set to 40 % white ghosting almost unnoticable (but still is)
- Contrast set to 35 % - NO GHOSTING
- Contrast set to 55 % and above - a little bit more white ghosting


Brightness setting has NO influence on above setups (tried with Brightness set from 0 to 100 % range) and it didn't either help or make worse.



But those results don't make me pannic.

My usuall setup is: Brightness varies from 30 - 60 % (depends on room lighting) and Contrast set to 35 %. And funny thing is that I choose 35 % Contrast setting without being aware of any ghosting effect - I tried with many setup combinations and those above are my favourites.


You mentioned you're working on factory settings - Brightness 100 % and Contrast 50 %, which are way too high. Try to find some lower setups - for example Brightness 60 - 70 % and Contrast 35 - 40 %


My 2470WNX production date is 7.2007
 
Mine was built in November 2007, and I am running Windows Vista. Contrast=50%. I just tried the FedEx page, as well as multiple other windows over this page and a neutral gray background in Photoshop. In Native and sRGB, there is no ghosting, trailing, or coronas, pink, green, or otherwise. The only shadows visible are the standard Vista theme shadows, and there is no flicker in any of the games I've played so far. However, I haven't tried any DV modes other than Standard. I will do so and get back to you.

Judging by those photos, you should return it. I know I would if mine looked like that.
 
EW27 said:
Mine was built in November 2007, and I am running Windows Vista. Contrast=50%. I just tried the FedEx page, as well as multiple other windows over this page and a neutral gray background in Photoshop. In Native and sRGB, there is no ghosting, trailing, or coronas, pink, green, or otherwise. The only shadows visible are the standard Vista theme shadows, and there is no flicker in any of the games I've played so far. However, I haven't tried any DV modes other than Standard. I will do so and get back to you.

Judging by those photos, you should return it. I know I would if mine looked like that.
Click to expand...

yeah mine is in standard DV mode as well.

weird they were both mfr'd 11/07 and mines fubar.

I've read other reviews that complained about the same thing. the replacement better not suck or im going to be pissed.
 
I tried it again with 35% contrast. While some of the color ghosting was reduced with greys, if i move around the hardforum page i get green ghosts where the red borders the grey (ghost moves from the red to the grey), and the white text develops an inverse ghost trail. The same happened after i dropped my brightness to 60% as well.

I use this monitor in bright light most of the time so I require high brightness/contrast settings.

I'm a bit confused as to the conflicting reports of ghosting since they said they never changed the lcd panel in these displays. Can some people just not notice it or are some displays not exhibiting this "Feature"?


Even with factory default settings I get ghosting on the hardforum page. The posting page I'm on right now moving up develops a light band at the top of the grey border, and a green band where the red borders the grey if i move it down. The text (yellow and white) also develops a purple/black trail.


Funghi said:
Hi !

I've made some experiments with trying to get this ghosting effect and I got similar results to yours (I was using your FedEx page link).

My 2470WNX production date is 7.2007
Click to expand...
 
Standard Mode
sRGB
03/2007 Mfr Date
40% Brightness
50% Contrast

No color bleeding or ghosting. I stared closely while moving windows around and saw nothing. There were some trails buts that's only because I was moving the window so fast. I don't like sRGB because the colors look too real and washed. I'm more into blooming colors with high contrasts so I use Photo Mode.

I've been playing COD4 without a hiccup @ 1440 x 900. Any higher and graphics suffer. I'm using a BFG 8800GTX with Xeon 3060 @ 2.4GHz. Even at the non-native resolution, the game is crystal clear.
 
notnyt said:
I'm a bit confused as to the conflicting reports of ghosting since they said they never changed the lcd panel in these displays.
Click to expand...

I don't know if thats true...

NEC told me that the panel currently used is the LTM240M2-L02. From what I can tell, this is the third revision of the LTM240M2, which was used in the original Dell 2407, which apparently had some of the exact problems you are seeing. Bit Tech found when reviewing the Dell that the first and/or second revision fixed the problems. So I assumed that since 1) NEC is using an even later revision, 2) I have never seen any of the reported problems (and I spent the first week specifically looking for them), and 3) nobody here saw any of them either, they weren't an issue on the 2470 with the newest panel.

All of the above made perfect sense until you said yours, like mine, was also built in November 2007. I wouldn't have been surprised had yours been older (possibly older panel revision), but since they were built at the same time, I should have the same problems you do...right?
 
OK, this is probably a stupid question that has no relevance in this case, but since we have the same mfg. date, I'm just trying to think of anything that might be different: have you installed the NEC driver, or are you using the generic standard PnP monitor driver?
 
tried that as well - in sRGB have some serious pink ghosting of fedex page. In native however i have white ghosting which is almost not visible. So i guess i'm sticking to native. Is color reproduction more accurate in sRGB then in native because most people tend to set color to sRGB in this monitor?

contrast 50 brightness 25
 
EW27 said:
OK, this is probably a stupid question that has no relevance in this case, but since we have the same mfg. date, I'm just trying to think of anything that might be different: have you installed the NEC driver, or are you using the generic standard PnP monitor driver?
Click to expand...

tried with both
 
EW27 said:
Also, I was right about the panels. I asked NEC what panel the 2470 uses; their response:

"Dear xxxxx xxxxxx,

The LCD2470WNX currently has the Samsung LTM240M2-L02 panel.

Sincerely,

Justin Pendleton
NEC Display Solutions Service & Support
Telephone: 1-800-632-4662
E-mail: [email protected]"

So it uses the updated revision of the panel in the Dell 2407 non-HC (LTM240M2), which means NO inverse ghosting, plus all the fixes for the problems reported on the original Dell version (blurry text, banding, etc.). That explains why none of you 2470 owners (including myself) have seen any of these issues.
Click to expand...

lol, wtf

Dear _____________,

Thank you for writing. We do not disclose the exact panel used, but can tell you that it is an S-PVA type of panel. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us for further assistance.

Sincerely,

Justin Pendleton
NEC Display Solutions Service & Support
Telephone: 1-800-632-4662
E-mail: [email protected]
 
also something else I noticed...

its SLOWWWWWW.


i just installed vista on my girls pc which has a CRT and a TN panel.

I sat back down at my computer and the lag was awful. its about double the latency of my gateway 24" pva.
 
notnyt said:
also something else I noticed...

its SLOWWWWWW.
Click to expand...

I think its broken. :(

Was that at native res or interpolated?

Regardless, this thing costs too much to be unhappy with. I'd return it ASAP, even if they'll only let you swap for another 2470WNX.
 
notnyt said:
lol, wtf

Dear _____________,

Thank you for writing. We do not disclose the exact panel used, but can tell you that it is an S-PVA type of panel. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us for further assistance.

Sincerely,

Justin Pendleton
NEC Display Solutions Service & Support
Telephone: 1-800-632-4662
E-mail: [email protected]
Click to expand...

Ummm...that doesn't seem good... :confused:
 
EW27 said:
I think its broken. :(

Was that at native res or interpolated?

Regardless, this thing costs too much to be unhappy with. I'd return it ASAP, even if they'll only let you swap for another 2470WNX.
Click to expand...

from the info menu
1 DVI-D
1920x1200
H 73.8khz V 59.7Hz
 
When first powered, the unit is pretty dull but after what seems like 5-15 minutes, it reaches peak brightness. Are any others experiencing this warm-up period?
 
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