NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

bydus said:
Many thanks for replies. I've decided to go for normal heatsink cooling solution, after much research i've decided to go for noctua nh-l12 or noctua nh-l9i. However i'm not sure if nh-l9i will able to be quiet and cool i7-4970 cpu - any comments on that ? [/IMG]
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Noctua states that the case needs good cooling (when using nh-l9i) in order to handle CPUs with higher TDP than 65W. The i7-4970 is 88W. But I have seen many reviews for this cooler where they even used a 95W CPU.

With that said, I just got the l9i myself, and plan to use it with the same CPU. I don't plan to overclock, and I plan to disable the turbo boost if needed. The raw 4 GHz speed offered is plenty for me, and if the CPU overheats, can always lower the multiplier a little. In worst case, get a better cooler later.

I got this cooler because of it's small size and good acoustics. It was cheap too.
 
bydus said:
From my understanding it would be best to do it in reverse (in m1 case) as it would get the hot air outside of the case ...
Can some1 explain it to me like im 5 ? :)
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Fans don't pick out just the hot air and leave the cold air behind. They just move whatever air is in front of them.

Heatsink works best when it's getting freshest air possible. Preferably from outside the case. This will get the best CPU temps.

Your 'reverse' idea is not so great. Air from the motherboard area will be warmer and not cool the heatsink as effectively as fresh air.

Best thing to do is try it yourself. Measure temps with both orientations. Then you will see it with your own eyes and that's better than reading a theory.
 
So I apparently made a mistake on my build here. I have been sitting on a H220 cooled system for a couple of months because I simply haven't had money to finish it. Long story short I finished the system, filled it up and was setting up to let it leak test. I shut off the rig after letting it run for maybe 30 seconds to move the whole system. PSU started squealing and then I hear a pop and some magic smoke. Upon evaluation it looks like I blow a nuvoton 3941s which is what powers the fan headers. Looks like it blew on pin 2 which is voltage in from the board. I bad my 2 Cougar fans on CHA_FAN1 and the H220 pump on CPU_FAN1.

Has anyone else run an H220 off of a Z87e-itx header without issue? I'm super bummed to have this issue considering how long my M1 has been relegated to a spot in my closet while waiting. I'm considering whether or not to RMA the board or just solder in a new component myself.
 
You didn't use the Swiftech splitter? You're not supposed to power the pump directly off the motherboard.
 
WiSK said:
You didn't use the Swiftech splitter? You're not supposed to power the pump directly off the motherboard.
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If you check the installation guide page 9, it says:

If your motherboard is equipped with several PWM capable headers, you may choose to control the fans and/or cpu-cooler separately, without using the PWM splitter
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The "cpu-cooler" is the pump so it is supported. Not only that, but Voklskier ran the pump off the CPU-fan header which is usually rated to supply a higher current than regular chassis fan headers although the specs aren't in the manual.
This one is difficult to prove though and I could imagine that ASROCK would blame Swiftech. Your best bet is to get the rated amperage for the fan header and the H220 pump to determine if the pump is below the limit. If it is, RMA the motherboard.
If not, you can try RMA'ing it anyway and... omit... how it happened, but you risk paying a fee if they won't cover it.

You can also just RMA without doing any research and tell them what happened and see what they say. Again, be ready to pay for it if they won't cover it. I'm not much a DIY guy, but if you think you can fix it yourself and don't want to risk paying for an RMA, sure, you could try replacing it, but you definitely void your warranty unlike with the RMA.
 
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To be perfectly honest I chose not to run the pump off the splitter because I didn't need anymore wires in my already crowded build. My understanding was it was the less desirable setup but it was still acceptable considering the pump according to swiftech pulls .5A. Taking a second look at it though it rates nominal power so who knows what it draws on spin up. Either way the Asrock couldn't handle it for some reason. I can get a replacement IC for $5.99 and just solder it on myself (yes I know whats involved but I work as a technician in an EE department so I have all the tools) Gonna go that route for now and use the splitter or some other ghetto setup I do myself.
 
Anyone with this combination?

Noctua NH-L12 / ASUS Maximus VII Impact / NCase M1.

Does this combination work? If yes, which heat pipe orientations work and which don't?

Are low profile memory modules mandatory?

Does the large top fan interfere with the fan / HD bracket?

Thank you.
 
Had a couple more questions.

1. I was going to stick 2ssds, a 3.5 hard drive, and a slim optical drive in the case. Where would be the optimal placement for this?

2. Also, I saw that some people were running pwm fans off their gpu. Was wondering how they were doing this. I know they are using some kind of adapter but does that adapter plug into the gpu or you have to solder something to gpu?

3. Also is there some kind of basic optimal way to put everything together when assembling the build as to minimize frustration?
 
voklskier4452 said:
Has anyone else run an H220 off of a Z87e-itx header without issue?
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I have, without an issue. I did use a Noctua 4-pin PWM splitter for the H220's own fans, no aftermarket ones.

WiSK said:
You didn't use the Swiftech splitter? You're not supposed to power the pump directly off the motherboard.
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I didn't on the Z87E-ITX and I still don't on the VII Impact, it doesn't allow you to bring the pump's AND fan's noise down seperately. In my case it was the fans making too much noise when the pump was at it's quietest or the pump would flutter when I turn it down to compensate for the noisy fans.

jdajjarapu said:
2. Also, I saw that some people were running pwm fans off their gpu. Was wondering how they were doing this. I know they are using some kind of adapter but does that adapter plug into the gpu or you have to solder something to gpu?

3. Also is there some kind of basic optimal way to put everything together when assembling the build as to minimize frustration?
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2. if your GPU has a 4-pin mini connector like this: http://www.moddiy.com/products/Mini-4%2dPin-GPU-to-2-x-4%2dPin-FWM-Fan-Adapter.html

3. http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1791688
 
XelNika said:
If you check the installation guide page 9, it says:
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Aha :)

It's different to the MCP35X (Apogee Drive II) then, which should never be run off the motherboard.

There was also the RMA experience of Adudeinblue's H220 some months ago. According to Bryan at Swiftech, some motherboard headers power can fluctuate (under GPU load) and cause damage to the pump.

Bryan at Swiftech said:
... It’s a much higher wattage pump that requires quite a bit more current. Also, due to the fact that it’s a PWM device the current needs to stay fairly consistent or you’ll damage the pump...
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http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1041006320#post1041006320

Although I didn't realise at the time that the H220 manual states that you can use motherboard PWM headers. Maybe Adudeinblue put it on a non-PWM header instead.
 
The problem with Adudeinblue was most likely the same problem most H220 users have: a defective pump. Bryan just found a way to blame something else so he did not need to honor the warranty. This is either Bryan, refusing to acknowledge the issues with the H220, or one of the upper management forcing Bryan to reduce the amount of RMA's being issued.

Long before the 12V fluctuations from an over-the-limit PSU (GTX 780Ti on a ST45SF-G = within spec) would cause issues with an electric motor, the GPU would have crashed or the motherboard or PSU would have engaged the undervolt protection. If their pump can't deal with the ATX-spec voltage deviations, their pump is the cause. As many with the H220 have realised, the pump is prone to failure.
 
WiSK said:
Fans don't pick out just the hot air and leave the cold air behind. They just move whatever air is in front of them.

Heatsink works best when it's getting freshest air possible. Preferably from outside the case. This will get the best CPU temps.

Your 'reverse' idea is not so great. Air from the motherboard area will be warmer and not cool the heatsink as effectively as fresh air.

Best thing to do is try it yourself. Measure temps with both orientations. Then you will see it with your own eyes and that's better than reading a theory.
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Now that makes perfect sense :) many thanks for clear explanation!
 
Phuncz said:
Bryan just found a way to blame something else
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I know, but now we see a more serious issue, also related to H220 and motherboard headers. Voklskier's motherboard is damaged and it could be a costly replacement, and possibly due to Swiftech dubious advice.
 
I was wondering if i got noctua nh-l9i low profile cooler for 4790k will it be able to cool it well without any overclock and be relatively quiet in closed case around a meter away ?

edit: accually i've decided to go for i5-4690k since there is not much difference in game performance - so question stays the same about noctua l9i
 
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Could anyone try to take a picture of the nuvoton 3941s that I blew up. It is right dead center above the CPU socket. Or even just give me all the letters/numbers that are on it. I can't read the bottom row which are the important bit. You should only have to remove your top piece on the M1 to get this.

Many internet points to whoever helps me. I don't think I can RMA I broke the gpu retention tab off a while ago and just noticed it again.
 
voklskier4452 said:
Could anyone try to take a picture of the nuvoton 3941s that I blew up. It is right dead center above the CPU socket. Or even just give me all the letters/numbers that are on it. I can't read the bottom row which are the important bit.
Click to expand...
3941S
321QA
 
I burnt a trace when I accidentally shorted the fan output to ground (chassis) while routing plugs around the case (with system running).

Fortunately for me it was just the trace, and reconnecting this allowed it to work again. The trace was right on the top edge of the mobo, easily accessible and fixable. Very luckily I guess.

At the time of the event, there was smoke, The CPU header no longer supplied power to the fan, but the computer continued to operate.
 
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Thank you Necere, I have two replacement ICs on order from Aliexpress. I have no issue changing out an IC that is this large with this few pins. I have had to hand solder 0402 pieces on regularly enough so this is looking simple. Provided it is the only damaged component. Makes me want to sell my R9 290 though considering this whole watercooling affair has gone very poorly and I only WCd to keep the R9 290 quiet.
 
So I emailed the evga customer support on whether the specific gtx 980 had 4 pin mini connectors for extra fans. here was their response:

"The card has a single 4 pin connector and a 2 pin connector on it, but we don't recommend using a splitter like that for additional fans. It could potentially overload the fan connector and short out the fan controller."

Thoughts? Do they tell everyone this information just to be safe. i was planning on hooking up 2 noctua f12 pwm fans off a splitter to the 4 pin on the gpu but i dont want to overload the fan controller now.
 
Noctua fans don't draw much power so you should be good but you could always wire up the 12V power to the PSU and just use the GPU for fan control.
 
Or if that all fails, build your own basic fan controller with a thermocouple screwed to the heatsink base. I did that for the few weeks after I had killed the CPU fan header on my Z87e-itx. I actually built two, one for the CPU, and one for the GPU. The GPU one is still being used, it takes the GPU heatsink temp and controls the bottom two 120mm intake fans.

It's not as fast or as responsive as the sensors that actually read cpu temp, but at least it does respond to heatsink temp and will continue running the fans till the heatsink has cooled down. It was really basic, and an electronics engineer would cringe at the design, but for the time to build it, it worked ok, and wasn't wasting too much energy to make it worth redesigning. Importantly, I could control what temp I wanted the fans to start going, and then the gradient at which the fans sped up for an increase in temp.
 
i thought about connecting the fans with a 4 pin connector w/ a splitter y splitter cable off the gpu such as this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321122344060

Was wondering how to "wire up the 12V power to the PSU and just use the GPU for fan control. "

I thought if the 4 pin cable coming off the gpu --> to the wire/splitter --> to the fans supplied power. how do you connect it off the psu to the fans to soley supply power and connect the fans to the gpu to control fan speed?
 
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You'll need to double-check the pinout for the fan connector on the GPU but the pinout on most PWM connectors is GND - 12V - tach - PWM control. The fourth wire is the PWM control signal and only it is needed for the GPU to control the fan speed, the power doesn't have to come from the same source.

So you could wire the GND and 12V to the PSU, the PWM line to the GPU, and ONE of the tach to the GPU. Either way you go, make sure only one of the fans is wired for the third wire, otherwise the fan controller will get two RPM signals and will get confused. On second thought, if you're hooking up the Noctua's in addition to the stock fans you'll want to make sure neither fan is hooked up to the tach line.

If you don't have the tools to wire it up yourself you could probably make it work with enough adapters but I don't think you'll have issues running off the card, the NF-F12s are only 0.05A each so even two of them would only be 1.2W at full speed.
 
I have an example that could work for your purpose. My original intention was to allow PWM control and RPM feedback for fans. I have disconnected and removed the original GPU fans, and im currently using the bottom 2 fans for the GPU.

Power for the fans comes from somewhere else (such as any 12V rail from the PSU), but the PWM control line, and RPM feedback comes from the GPU. This would work perfectly for your needs, but I have gone for a more direct connection.


I soldered wires directly to my GPU where the PWM output and RPM sense wires

From there, I connected these to a fan plug. Power and Ground are sourced from the PSU, via the secondary connector you see hanging off it.

I am using a 3 pin fan, so currently the PWM pin (for controlling PWM fans) is not used, and has been covered with heat shrink. This is to protect the pin from touching anything in the computer.



And in this second photo, I happen to have captured the two power taps I added to the Motherboard 12V power supply. I have used heatshrink to create a shroud to protect the bare ends if no fan is plugged in.
 
Just ordered the 600w Silverstone, Maximus VII Impact, 16gb of low profile memory and a 4790K. Hopefully the stock cooler is enough until Fractal Design Kelvin is released.
 
okwchin said:
I have an example that could work for your purpose. My original intention was to allow PWM control and RPM feedback for fans. I have disconnected and removed the original GPU fans, and im currently using the bottom 2 fans for the GPU.

Power for the fans comes from somewhere else (such as any 12V rail from the PSU), but the PWM control line, and RPM feedback comes from the GPU. This would work perfectly for your needs, but I have gone for a more direct connection.


I soldered wires directly to my GPU where the PWM output and RPM sense wires

From there, I connected these to a fan plug. Power and Ground are sourced from the PSU, via the secondary connector you see hanging off it.

I am using a 3 pin fan, so currently the PWM pin (for controlling PWM fans) is not used, and has been covered with heat shrink. This is to protect the pin from touching anything in the computer.



And in this second photo, I happen to have captured the two power taps I added to the Motherboard 12V power supply. I have used heatshrink to create a shroud to protect the bare ends if no fan is plugged in.
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Im kind of a newbie here. trying to find the easiest solution w/out delving into soldering. your setup looks very cool...yet advanced. I feel like I would mess that up. Is three any 4 pin mini connector that comes off gpu connects to 2 fans, and also has a sata or other connector to supply power?
 
the chances of having that cable pre-made for the mass market is very unlikely. Having a GPU fan connector/adaptor is probably as close as your going to get.

If soldering is a possibility, it would be much simpler. Otherwise, you would need to cut up an adapter, and simply take the power and ground line from the GPU side of the adapter and connect that to some power source.
 
Looks like whatever happened to my system also killed the PSU. Won't power on via the jumper method. I shorted pins 16/17 and the fan will spin up for like half a second before the PSU turns off. Makes me sad to have to wait so long to use this beautiful case again.

I think I will just make my own adapters like above so that I can power the fans and the pump for my H220 off of the PSU directly and then use the 2 headers on the motherboard to control them via PWM.
 
If you read the lines, you could make out that:
- green = the models fit
- yellow = not all models fit
- red = none fit
- white = unverified
 
What size screwdriver should I be using to build in the M1? I was using a size 1 philips driver to try and remove the side radiator bracket to fix a slight wobble with the rear left foot but found the screw to be quite tight and my screwdriver was skipping over it. ( The screw was not stripped but a bit of paint was worn away on the top )
 
M1 build time next week. I plan on doing some temp testing with different fan configs. Anyone have any good advice on free/cheap testing software for stress testing a 4690K and an old GTX 580? I've never really done this kind of testing before but I think finding the optimal config will help a lot in reducing noise.
 
For benchmarking/stress testing I have been using Unigine Heaven and Valley, there is also Furmark (unrealistically high loads) and 3dmark 2011 Firestrike I believe

A few people were wondering if the MSI GTX 970 Gaming 4g fits, and I can say that it fits fine. Added some pics here:

http://imgur.com/a/SlB1p

And video:

http://youtu.be/VWtCbETCJMQ
 
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