NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

[grazina]

I'm sure everyone is going to use a mix of SSDs and 3.5" and 2.5". 3.5" is still the best price/performance for people who hoard data (leaving aside the separate NAS argument for later). Using 2.5" to get the same storage means spending more and at the same time using up more sata ports.

Not everyone is going to use the NH-C14, when there are other air cooler options like NT06-PRO or NH-L12, NH-C12P. There are also options like H60 and custom water cooling. Not everyone is going to place priority on cooling the CPU either. Not everyone is going to place two fans below the GPU.

Don't see a problem in using more sata ports. That's what they're there for.
I know. Different people will use different configurations, but for me keeping high quality components at a reasonable temperature is more important than having a 4tb 3.5". For that I have an external one. An none of those coolers you mentioned comes close when cooling an 3770k, even at stock speed. I wonder how they'll do with the 4770k. Can't speak about the NT06-PRO because I don't even know that it'll fit, but all the reviews I've rad put it below the NH-L12, and the NH-C14 performs much better than it's smaller brother.

 

[mesasone]

Don't see a problem in using more sata ports. That's what they're there for.
I know. Different people will use different configurations, but for me keeping high quality components at a reasonable temperature is more important than having a 4tb 3.5". For that I have an external one. An none of those coolers you mentioned comes close when cooling an 3770k, even at stock speed. I wonder how they'll do with the 4770k. Can't speak about the NT06-PRO because I don't even know that it'll fit, but all the reviews I've rad put it below the NH-L12, and the NH-C14 performs much better than it's smaller brother.

I have a NH-C12P SE14 sitting right beside me, formerly cooling my 3570k OC'd @ 4.4 GHz. It performed just fine. Before that, it was cooling an 3.4 GHz overclocked Q6600 which uses even more power than a 3570k or 3770k, and it cooled that just fine as well. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be able to cool a 4770k just as well, and I'd suspect the other coolers would as well.

It's already been established that this case is not for the folks seeking max overclocks or massive cooling potential.

 

[Deleted member 222586]

It's already been established that this case is not for the folks seeking max overclocks or massive cooling potential.

This is something that didnt require extensive testing to be certain about Simple logic still applies, and small boxes aren't for the "die-hard" enthusiasts (talking about performance over everything else).

 

[grazina]

I have a NH-C12P SE14 sitting right beside me, formerly cooling my 3570k OC'd @ 4.4 GHz. It performed just fine. Before that, it was cooling an 3.4 GHz overclocked Q6600 which uses even more power than a 3570k or 3770k, and it cooled that just fine as well. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be able to cool a 4770k just as well, and I'd suspect the other coolers would as well.

The NH-C12P SE14 and the NH-C14 do seem to have a similar performance at stock speeds, with the NH-C4 gaining a slight advantage when overclocking. I'm glad you're having a good experience with it.

This is something that didnt require extensive testing to be certain about Simple logic still applies, and small boxes aren't for the "die-hard" enthusiasts (talking about performance over everything else).

It's already been established that this case is not for the folks seeking max overclocks or massive cooling potential.

I'm gonna have to disagree with both of you for the simple fact that there is a reason you have Z77 m-itx boards and soon Z87 m-itx boards, and specifically the asus ones that have that riser card for a more stable overclock. So if something like the P8Z77-I wasn't made for a small box, then it simply shouldn't exist, cause buying an m-itx board like that and then putting it in a atx or even m-atx case seems illogical.
From all the testing Necere did, I told myself two things:
1- Forget about watercooling.
2- This case will be able to hold a very powerful system that will put to shame allot of big water cooled rigs. You just have to choose the right components, tweak them and know what you're doing.

But I'm sure in a couple of months were gonna be showing each other or systems.

 

[Deleted member 222586]

I'm gonna have to disagree with both of you for the simple fact that there is a reason you have Z77 m-itx boards and soon Z87 m-itx boards, and specifically the asus ones that have that riser card for a more stable overclock. So if something like the P8Z77-I wasn't made for a small box, then it simply shouldn't exist, cause buying an m-itx board like that and then putting it in a atx or even m-atx case seems illogical.
From all the testing Necere did, I told myself two things:
1- Forget about watercooling.
2- This case will be able to hold a very powerful system that will put to shame allot of big water cooled rigs. You just have to choose the right components, tweak them and know what you're doing.

But I'm sure in a couple of months were gonna be showing each other or systems.

Just because boards exist doesn't mean much, because the ITX "power" cases are much, much bigger than the M1. You can't put very power hungry systems in very small cases simply because you will cook the case to death. Its simple logic.

Just because you can mix components doesn't mean they will work perfectly.

Also, there is something that I haven't seen, how are the HDD temperatures when using high-end power-hungry components? I'm asking because the temperature of my HDD's rise to death when using power-hungry graphics card on my FT03.

 

[Phuncz]

I'm gonna have to disagree with both of you for the simple fact that there is a reason you have Z77 m-itx boards and soon Z87 m-itx boards, and specifically the asus ones that have that riser card for a more stable overclock. So if something like the P8Z77-I wasn't made for a small box, then it simply shouldn't exist, cause buying an m-itx board like that and then putting it in a atx or even m-atx case seems illogical.

Now you're just making stuff up. If there is no reason for something to exist because it's not logical, there wouldn't be so many street-legal sports cars that can go >120mph, extremely expensive audio equipment (like 500$ power cables) and various other things that don't make sense.
The only reason the mITX Z77 motherboards exist because people want them. Nothing is produced in our capitalistic world because "it makes sense".

This case will be able to hold a very powerful system that will put to shame allot of big water cooled rigs. You just have to choose the right components, tweak them and know what you're doing.

No, no it won't. It's a case. It will never be better at performance because it's smaller. It can only be better because it is designed better. But this case is extremely small for the hardware most are going to put in there, so it will actually be at a disadvantage. Anyone serious with performance and watercooling, would and should not buy a crappy 50$ case.

And then there is the limitations this case has:
- no SLI or Crossfire
- no Socket 2011 or dual-CPU
- no dual 240mm radiators or single 360mm radiator
- no more than a few hard disks
- no full-featured ATX motherboards
- no >120mm fans
etc.

If you meant that you could build a computer faster than another, better watercooled one, that is indeed possible, but that's what I can say about my current PC too. It's a moot point.

 

[grazina]

you will cook the case to death. Its simple logic.

I'm cooking something alright.

Also, there is something that I haven't seen, how are the HDD temperatures when using high-end power-hungry components? I'm asking because the temperature of my HDD's rise to death when using power-hungry graphics card on my FT03.

On Thermal and noise testing, part 1:

I did monitor HDD temps and GPU VRM temps for this test (during gaming anyway) using HWInfo. The bottom 3.5 HDD hit temps of around 42C, while the hottest GPU VRM sensor reading was about 12C less than the GPU core temp (which seems low, but I'm not sure).

On Thermal and noise testing, part 2:

I also noted the temps reported by the SSDs (mounted vertically at the front of the case) and the Intel PCH. The former hit ~45C, while the latter ~65C. These are well within the acceptable range, as I understand.

The only reason the mITX Z77 motherboards exist because people want them.

And they want them because they want to be able to build powerful systems in small cases.

No, no it won't. It's a case. It will never be better at performance because it's smaller. It can only be better because it is designed better. But this case is extremely small for the hardware most are going to put in there, so it will actually be at a disadvantage. Anyone serious with performance and watercooling, would and should not buy a crappy 50$ case.

And then there is the limitations this case has:
- no SLI or Crossfire
- no Socket 2011 or dual-CPU
- no dual 240mm radiators or single 360mm radiator
- no more than a few hard disks
- no full-featured ATX motherboards
- no >120mm fans
etc.

If you meant that you could build a computer faster than another, better watercooled one, that is indeed possible, but that's what I can say about my current PC too. It's a moot point.

Ok. When I say a system that will put many to shame I wasn't going to where you took us.
Three Titans are better than one, but not by much. Dual cpu's also, but where are the games that take advantage?
Building a powerful system is not the same as building the most powerful system.
My point is that you can build something in this case that will be better than something that uses an atx board and case. You just have to make the right choices in terms of components. I would never put a gtx 690 in this case, even if the psu supported it, but a titan you bet its going in there and a 4770k.
So far with this case the only compromise I've seen is the water cooling that I think won't work because of the small space for tubbing.

 

[cookiePlant]

Grazina, you talk too much.

 

[ellroy80]

Grazina, you talk too much.

+1. Less talking, more thinking required.

 

[grazina]

I do talk allot, but you know the saying:
Money talks, ... walks.
You guys must be doing allot of walking, cause I can't figure out why you're here if you're gonna go for something mediocre.

 

[Deleted member 222586]

@grazina: thx for the data on HDD temperature... but 42ºC are not acceptable temperatures, as HDD failure vastly increases with temperature.

Mmmm, I'll have to find a solution for it, maybe its time to get a NAS or something similar, but 42ºC in spring... it will mean 50ºC in august.

 

[grazina]

@grazina: thx for the data on HDD temperature... but 42ºC are not acceptable temperatures, as HDD failure vastly increases with temperature.

Mmmm, I'll have to find a solution for it, maybe its time to get a NAS or something similar, but 42ºC in spring... it will mean 50ºC in august.

I actually just checking a review of the M500 960gb and it has a safety feature that starts down throttling the ssd when the temps reach 65º Celsius. So yeah, some careful planning on where to place the disk will be required, as I'm guessing a mechanical 2.5" will get even hotter.

 

[Necere]

If you center the 2.5" mounting, won't you be able to close the lid in the front if you keep it to 7mm hd's? The problem in this pic appears to be the curvature of the lid, so if it closes you'll simply have to center the mounting and include a third set of those brackets. Can you check that? Should be fairly simple to confirm.

Yes - I was able to snap closed three of the four clips on the front panel in that pic. The reason the drive mount is off center is because the soft-mounted grommet and screws extend through the panel and there's very little room one the side with the PSU. As it turns out though, there's just enough room (I didn't know the exact dimensions of the grommet+screw when designing), so it might be something that's doable. There are some other considerations regarding the internal 2.5" bracket and some mounting holes, however.

Also, to me it appears that the set of rubbers screws you're using adds bulk to the width of two ssd in the front and since they don't vibrate you might be able to use some sort of screw that's not as thick.

It's more to allow ease of mounting, since you just screw them to the drive and then they slot in securely. But if someone wanted to use mechanical 2.5" drives, they'd be good for isolating vibration, too.

Yes, I know the 3.5" bracket is removable, but I meant that it's a cost I don't think is justified.
If you're using full atx psu you can't use it

Actually... if more modest CPU cooling is acceptable, you could attach the 3.5" HDD bracket to the rear fan mount, which would allow an ATX PSU to be used.

Just one question on the PSU - are you still considering turning it 180 degrees to suck air in from the outside of the case (assuming you are going to ventilate the right side panel, which it sounds like you are)? Or, is it possible to mount it turned 180 degrees with the current bracket?

Yes, the holes for SFX are symmetrical, so the bracket supports it either way.

So far with this case the only compromise I've seen is the water cooling that I think won't work because of the small space for tubbing.

That sounds like a challenge

Obviously, a custom loop with GPU cooling will be a challenge, and getting a (non-integrated) res and/or pump inside the case will likely be out of the question without putting some limits to other components (e.g. short GPU). But doing CPU-only W/C via a Swiftech H220 or one of the CLCs (which, I know, a lot of people don't consider "real" W/C) is easily achievable.

@grazina: thx for the data on HDD temperature... but 42ºC are not acceptable temperatures, as HDD failure vastly increases with temperature.

Mmmm, I'll have to find a solution for it, maybe its time to get a NAS or something similar, but 42ºC in spring... it will mean 50ºC in august.

I don't know about that. From this Google study on HDD failure rates:

37-42C is about the optimal temp for lowest failure rates; and in fact, the failure rates are much higher at lower temperatures than at higher ones. At 50C it's merely as high as at 32C. Under 25C is when the failures start to skyrocket.

 

[Deleted member 222586]

I don't know about that. From this Google study on HDD failure rates:

37-42C is about the optimal temp for lowest failure rates; and in fact, the failure rates are much higher at lower temperatures than at higher ones. At 50C it's merely as high as at 32C. Under 25C is when the failures start to skyrocket.

It's kinda hard to get below 25ºC on a drive that is being used unless you live inside a freezer. Also, keep in mind that your own tests showed 42ºC... and we aren't in summer. It isnt hard to assume that temperature might rise up to 50ºC depending on the position of the HDD, the hardware used and some other factors.

One of the biggest problems with cases this small is that you have to attach stuff to the panels... and, because the panels get warm, such heat gets transmitted to the components attached to such panels. I know because the same thing happened in the FT03, temperatures were good until the case got hot and, then, there was literally nothing you could do.

 

[Necere]

Well, with all this talk about the increasing obsolescence of 3.5" drives, I'm going to go against the grain and show a very different sort of build from the ones I've done so far: a NAS box.

Using a second 3.5" HDD cage, it's possible to fit four 3.5" drives in (plus a fifth, if using a single 92mm fan on the bottom). It limits you to CPU coolers ~60mm tall or less, but that's not really an issue for a machine intended primarily as a file server.

Pics:













CPU cooler installed is a Scythe Big Shuriken 2. I also have the dual SSDs mounted to the inside front (which was a bit of a squeeze actually; 9.5mm thick SSDs would be limited to a single drive in this location). Note that I didn't connect most of the drive cables, as it was just a quick build for fitment/illustrative purposes and I didn't want to spend a lot of time on it. Won't be doing any thermal testing with this (CPU isn't actually installed)

You could even fit a video card if you were so inclined, but the majority of mini-ITX boards have four or fewer SATA ports, so the PCIe slot would likely need to be used for an SATA controller card instead.

There's probably at least a handful of people that would be interested in building a 20TB NAS in the M1, and while we don't have plans to include a second 3.5" HDD cage, and I don't know if we'll offer them separately (if there's even interest), I thought it worthwhile to show what's possible. If someone really wanted a cage, I'm sure there will be other M1 owners that have no use for theirs and would be willing to part with it (assuming we don't offer them in some way).

 

[Necere]

It's kinda hard to get below 25ºC on a drive that is being used unless you live inside a freezer. Also, keep in mind that your own tests showed 42ºC... and we aren't in summer. It isnt hard to assume that temperature might rise up to 50ºC depending on the position of the HDD, the hardware used and some other factors.

It's possible. You do have to be judicious about what hardware you use. Bear in mind the tests I've been doing are using one of the highest TDP single-GPU cards available. And, while it wasn't particularly warm when I tested with the 3.5" HDD installed, it wasn't exactly cold, either, being around 22C during those tests, IIRC.

One of the biggest problems with cases this small is that you have to attach stuff to the panels... and, because the panels get warm, such heat gets transmitted to the components attached to such panels.

Probably less through conduction through the panels (the drives are rubber mounted, so moderately insulated in that regard), and more just from the warm air.

 

[Necere]

Just a reminder: extra-wide video cards will not fit in the M1, due to the PCIe power connectors not having enough room.

As an example, the EVGA GTX 680 Classified:



The regular-width GTX 670 pictured is fine, it's just the Classified and other cards with wider than normal PCBs that will have issues.

 

[geofelt]

To my mind, the main reason to build with this case is because it is SMALL.
I might think it would be used primarily as a lan box with room for a very good graphics card and a similarly strong cpu. It looks like a SSD and perhaps a 2.5" laptop storage drive will be the way to go. You can get 2gb in a laptop drive.

But, some like small because it needs to fit in a spot. I happen to be in that camp.
As a NAS server box, the new haswell Z87 itx motherboards will come with 6 6gb sata ports. Namely the ASUS Z87-I Deluxe will have 6, and I think the asrock Z87E-Itx

Either way, it is looking good.

With perhaps a $200?case budget, I don't think too many are going to try to save money and stuff old tech into the case; they will probably go with new tech.

 

[phaseshift]

going along nicely, can't wait to see the final product.

 

[rumartinez89]

Just a reminder: extra-wide video cards will not fit in the M1, due to the PCIe power connectors not having enough room.

As an example, the EVGA GTX 680 Classified:



The regular-width GTX 670 pictured is fine, it's just the Classified and other cards with wider than normal PCBs that will have issues.

Well that sucks, really liked the fact that it had a larger blower fan. Guess that also means msi lightning cards won't fit either

 

[Necere]

Well that sucks, really liked the fact that it had a larger blower fan. Guess that also means msi lightning cards won't fit either

Indeed. The issue with out of spec cards (including the MSI Lightning) was discussed previously.

 

[rumartinez89]

Indeed. The issue with out of spec cards (including the MSI Lightning) was discussed previously.

Cool, didn't see that was already discussed. My question for you though is if the pcb kind of steps down like the 7970 matrix platinum(i know it is slightly too long) would that work?

 

[Phuncz]

I do talk allot, but you know the saying:
Money talks, ... walks.
You guys must be doing allot of walking, cause I can't figure out why you're here if you're gonna go for something mediocre.

Why would they even listen to you ?

I won't use the optical drive and would like a no cut out top panel. Probably won't be getting one, unless they make the kickstarter campaign flexible enough.

You are on the fence because of a simple 3mm slot across the top that actually is placed so it isn't really noticeable. If that bothers you, you'll keep finding things to be bothered with on this case.

You're just making up issues and arguments every few replies and it is getting very very annoying. You are basically going towards being perceived as a "troll". Your problems are not everyone's problem. Your entire SSD vs HDD opinion is based on your own skewed experience which is the exact opposite of most people and you completely ignore the facts about both.

 

[Necere]

Cool, didn't see that was already discussed. My question for you though is if the pcb kind of steps down like the 7970 matrix platinum(i know it is slightly too long) would that work?

Yes, if that step-down brings it to within 10-15mm of where the connector is on a standard-width card, which I'm not sure that particular ASUS card does. Another thing to be aware of - the PCB on that card is listed as 5.5", or ~140mm, which is pretty much exactly the amount of width available for a card in the M1. What that means is the PCB is going be right up against the side of the case and act as a barrier for airflow, which could be a real problem with a non-rear exhaust cooler like that uses. For reference, standard cards are 111mm wide, and there's 29mm from the card edge to the side panel.

 

[Phuncz]

What that means is the PCB is going be right up against the side of the case and act as a barrier for airflow, which could be a real problem with a non-rear exhaust cooler like that uses.

For this reason alone I have switched to a MSI N670GTX-PM2D2GD5/OC, because it's a reference blower design and it's also relatively cheap. I'd like to eliminate as much as hot air build-up inside the M1 and blower-style cooled GPU's help that aspect.

 

[rumartinez89]

Yes, if that step-down brings it to within 10-15mm of where the connector is on a standard-width card, which I'm not sure that particular ASUS card does. Another thing to be aware of - the PCB on that card is listed as 5.5", or ~140mm, which is pretty much exactly the amount of width available for a card in the M1. What that means is the PCB is going be right up against the side of the case and act as a barrier for airflow, which could be a real problem with a non-rear exhaust cooler like that uses. For reference, standard cards are 111mm wide, and there's 29mm from the card edge to the side panel.

Good to know. I am planning my build around 20nm video cards which I hope run cooler and won't have such large PCB on the exotic versions. I would probably stick a platinum or other 3/2.5 slot card in there just because the case can hold it.

 

[grazina]

Yes - I was able to snap closed three of the four clips on the front panel in that pic. The reason the drive mount is off center is because the soft-mounted grommet and screws extend through the panel and there's very little room one the side with the PSU. As it turns out though, there's just enough room (I didn't know the exact dimensions of the grommet+screw when designing), so it might be something that's doable. There are some other considerations regarding the internal 2.5" bracket and some mounting holes, however.


It's more to allow ease of mounting, since you just screw them to the drive and then they slot in securely. But if someone wanted to use mechanical 2.5" drives, they'd be good for isolating vibration, too.

I'm glad you thinks that's doable. When I mentioned centering the mount I thought about the clearance behind with the psu, but maybe just a few cm two the right so it clears the curvature of the door. But I leave that in your capable hands.
And I see your point about the grommets absorbing vibrations, specially if it's a 7200rpm drive.

Why would they even listen to you ?

They don't have to listen to me and much less reply to me. It's so easy to just ignore me if you think I'm trolling.

You are on the fence because of a simple 3mm slot across the top that actually is placed so it isn't really noticeable. If that bothers you, you'll keep finding things to be bothered with on this case.

I'm in the NO ODD camp, there will definitely be some sort of option for NO ODD top cover.

Even one of the case designers is pushing for this option, so why wouldn't why make sure I have that option if it's possible. Why should I just go along with the majority? There were allot of others that voted for the no cut out, it wasn't just me. I'm sure we would all go for a no cut out if the kickstarter campaign allows for it. You never saw me complain about the 3 rubber holes in the back, and I won't use them. Why? Because it's an option that some might use, but that cut out in my view is UN-appealing because it's right in plain sight, and I don't plan on using an optical drive.

Your entire SSD vs HDD opinion is based on your own skewed experience which is the exact opposite of most people and you completely ignore the facts about both.

I always make my decisions and draw my conclusions based on and from my own past experience. Don't see nothing wrong with that.

You are basically going towards being perceived as a "troll".

Has for trolling, I'm far from doing that, and the fact that every little suggestion I made got replied by Necere makes me think he sees some valid input from my part. I'm trying to ensure the final product gives me the most options for the system I'll be building. When you're on the market for a case you'll buy the one that most resembles what you wanted for your system. With this case still in the refinement stage, shouldn't I be suggesting what I would like to see? I think now is the time to do it.

 

[lordmocha]

hey,

if i was to use the asus680-2gb (tripleslot) (11.8 " x 5.1 " x 2.3 ") i would have to take the shroud off and use two 120mm fans

or

if i was to use the asus680-4gb (dualslot) (10.7 " x 5.4 " x 1.7 ") i could still take the shroud off and use the two 120mm fans, OR leave the shroud on and use the two 120 fans as well

what do you guys think about those three possibilities? im guessing the triple slot with dual 120 would be the best for temps but im not confident

thanks

 

[*Daedalus]

If you look at the pictures on the first page, you'll see the third slot is right down at the bottom of the case. If you populate the third slot, you pretty much won't have room for anything, so the first option is out.

Also, both of those cards are pretty bad value. The 670 is a much better option, never mind the fact that the 700 series will be launching in a few days.

 

[grazina]

hey,

if i was to use the asus680-2gb (tripleslot) (11.8 " x 5.1 " x 2.3 ") i would have to take the shroud off and use two 120mm fans

or

if i was to use the asus680-4gb (dualslot) (10.7 " x 5.4 " x 1.7 ") i could still take the shroud off and use the two 120mm fans, OR leave the shroud on and use the two 120 fans as well

what do you guys think about those three possibilities? im guessing the triple slot with dual 120 would be the best for temps but im not confident

thanks

I assume you are talking about the two models below, so I'll give my opinion on what I would try.

Keep the shroud on this one and install two bottom fans to aid in the cooling, although:

Similar to the previous setup, the ECS MDTX motherboard was changed out for the ASUS, which puts the GPU a slot higher and allows for bottom-mounted fans. I wanted to see how much difference the extra airflow would make, and in particular, how well it works to have a 92mm basically force-feeding outside air to the GPU's intake.

Basically, the added airflow didn't make much difference here. The fan ran a couple percent lower, which makes essentially no difference in terms of noise.

It seems to me as long as the GPU has access to a nearby source of cooler air, it doesn't much matter how fast that air is moving towards it - at least in the case of a blower-style cooler. It'll get the air it needs regardless.

So basically try the stock card with the original fans and see if adding two bottom fans improves either sound or temps.

Now, on this one:

You can try two things. Leave it has it is because being three slots, the fans are going to be directly in contact with the bottom air intake or remove the shroud and use two quality fans to see if the temps get better.

But I must say that these two are high quality cards. I would leave both the stock coolers and fans in place and on the two slot try that fan scenario to see if it improves anything.

 

[Phuncz]

I have not seen this discussed here yet, but it must come to attention:

Placing different fans right in front of eachother is usually a bad idea. It produces a lot of noise and it counter-act propper airflow if they are really mismatched. At the very least, it won't improve the cooling of the card but at the worst, it will make more noise and cool worse. You're better of placing ducts on the fans towards an outside air source or place it as close to the bottom as possible (miniDTX or three-slot cooling).

The same goes for the PSU and CPU: don't stack fans that aren't designed for them. Unless they are exactly the same fans, you CAN improve airflow and/or pressure but ones "out of phase" will only decrease both as one will be restricting the other.

 

[Deleted member 222586]

Non-blower style cards will work TERRIBLY on this case, unless you setup your case for negative pressure, that is. The reasons are fairly simple: such cards dump heat from all sides, and if you use your side fans as intakes, you will be recycling the hot air all day long on the front of the case.

So, I'd suggest the NCASE team to clearly specify that:

a) Any blower-style card not bigger than XYZ " will work.
b) Anything outside of such scope is on the user's behalf but, in any case, it isn't recommended.

Cards as the DirectCU are very big and, most of the time, power hungry. Add this with the fact that they aren't blower style cards, and you will be dumping probably more than 150W inside the case, which will create an oven inside the case.

It's possible. You do have to be judicious about what hardware you use. Bear in mind the tests I've been doing are using one of the highest TDP single-GPU cards available. And, while it wasn't particularly warm when I tested with the 3.5" HDD installed, it wasn't exactly cold, either, being around 22C during those tests, IIRC.


Probably less through conduction through the panels (the drives are rubber mounted, so moderately insulated in that regard), and more just from the warm air.

Mmm, I didn't realise you got 42ºC when the HDD was in this position:

So, even with direct airflow, the temps were far from good. I wonder what would happen if you placed the 3.5" on the bottom of the case with no airflow at all.

BTW, do you have any new info regarding shipping expenses for those of us who live overseas?

 

[*Daedalus]

Since when is 42° for a hard drive "far from good"? That's completely acceptable. My hard drive gets hotter than that, and it's got a 200mm fan blowing air at it. I dunno what planet you're living on, to be perfectly honest.

 

[Deleted member 222586]

Since when is 42° for a hard drive "far from good"? That's completely acceptable. My hard drive gets hotter than that, and it's got a 200mm fan blowing air at it. I dunno what planet you're living on, to be perfectly honest.

I have no idea how you can have your HDD's hotter than that with a fan blowing towards them, seriously.

My HDD sits at 29ºC being passively cooled. It isn't an SFF case by any means, mind you, but, still, 42ºC with a fan blowing towards it seems unrealisticly high.

 

[*Daedalus]

It's a slow-spinning fan, I'll grant you that, and it's not the only one in the case Since I started building computers though (over ten years, at this stage) I've regularly seen HDD temperatures like that. Maybe it's not 100% optimal, but it's certainly not going to do anything any harm.

 

[PolarBear]

I know there's been a lot of talk about blower type GPU's being optimal but I've recently got a 7870 XT by Sapphire that I'm planning on putting in this case. Necere, you'd have the best idea here. What do you think I should be doing with this card to have it run cool enough in the M1?

Here's a pic of the card.

 

[Deleted member 222586]

Trial and error. How do you want him to know the answer?!?!?!?!

 

[SithSolo1]

Non-blower style cards will work TERRIBLY on this case, unless you setup your case for negative pressure, that is. The reasons are fairly simple: such cards dump heat from all sides, and if you use your side fans as intakes, you will be recycling the hot air all day long on the front of the case.

The second round of testing showed this was not the case. Non-blower style cards will be fine, they will not bake everything in the case if the case is setup properly. Is it ideal? No, but its definitely doable.

I know there's been a lot of talk about blower type GPU's being optimal but I've recently got a 7870 XT by Sapphire that I'm planning on putting in this case. Necere, you'd have the best idea here. What do you think I should be doing with this card to have it run cool enough in the M1?

It should be fine with the stock cooler, if you feel uncomfortable with the temps then start looking at the aftermarket coolers.

 

[doh boy]

Necere,

Can you run the parts you are filling the case with in open air to get some kind of reference for their 'optimal' temperatures?

 

[rumartinez89]

Just a suggestion (don't get mad)

Make it symmetrically holey on both sides.
Pros: improve ventilation
Cons: spoil clean look and make side panels more flexy
Rename case to [H]oleyCheese!

One last question Necere, did you guys decide on adding more ventilation like proposed above? Inknow you were thinking about making it symmetrical on both sides.
Thanks in advance for the response an keep up the good work.