Gotta love both SilverStone and Lian Li for making this possible.
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)
- Thread starter wahaha360
- Start date
Gotta love both SilverStone and Lian Li for making this possible.
Bobalias_LeShay
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2013
- Messages
- 287
Yay! Now we just need the stars to align and the GTX 880, Broadwell desktop parts, and 120mm SFX-L PSUs to come out this fall. A man can dream. And a man can try to shoehorn a 295x2 into the chassis with a 4790k if the 880 and Broadwell aren't out yet
What, no credit?
It's actually something I've been on about for quite a while now...Maybe for my next trick I can get a manufacturer to do a decent mDTX board...
You should know there's less room for rads on the bottom. Not just thickness - both length and width are limited, and the xflow exceeds both. The issue for length is the I/O module at the front, and unless you remove it, the max length you're looking at is ~276mm, and that's with very tight bends on the USB and audio cables. Width is restricted by the side panel clips, and there you only have 132mm... the HWlabs rads are all 133mm. Maybe you can squeeze in the extra mm, but just be aware that there's a good chance they won't work.
Aibohphobia
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2013
- Messages
- 1,333
What, no credit?
Maybe for my next trick I can get a manufacturer to do a decent mDTX board...
Gigabyte seems willing to do low-volume semi-custom boards: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/quo/projectq-run-any-os-the-unique-motherboard
Admittedly that was just a standard board with certain components specifically chosen to be compatible with hackintosh but it doesn't seem too out of the question to get a mini-DTX board since they already have the GA-B85M-D2V.
PlayfulPhoenix
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2014
- Messages
- 302
Yeah, w360 and I talked about exactly that over a year ago. It just made more sense to focus our efforts on getting one project (the M1) successful.
MDTX is also something I push for every now and then. The M1 has three slots in part because I wanted a case that could enable the form factor. It's a nice middle ground between ITX and mATX.The ASUS ROG Necere VII?
I actually made my case for it to an ASUS rep on another forum a few years ago; he basically gave me the line about it being a failed form factor, no customer awareness, no demand, etc.
I'm sure I've pointed it out to people before, that you guys lit the fire for this
(Quoted from another thread)
Changing to? Or including both?
Changing to. We're ordering extras of both types though, so if you need the other type, it'll be available.
Ah ha, just seen your explanation in the improvements thread.
What, no credit?
Maybe for my next trick I can get a manufacturer to do a decent mDTX board...
I didn't know you and wahaha360 were pushing for it. Why are you two so godly?
Hey, just wondering, assuming a 35-day production cycle, would cases ship out as they're done, or would everything go to wahaha360 in one shipment (for people who chose the US economy shipping option anyway).
if it's the latter, would it be possible for me to change my shipping option? as I'd like my Ncase before the end of August if possible (I have all of August free to fiddle with my build )
if it's the latter, would it be possible for me to change my shipping option? as I'd like my Ncase before the end of August if possible (I have all of August free to fiddle with my build
)US economy is shipped in bulk to the US first, then re-shipped. Send w360 an email if you want to change your order. Note he's been very busy lately with his dayjob/life etc., so it may take a few days to get to back to you.Hey, just wondering, assuming a 35-day production cycle, would cases ship out as they're done, or would everything go to wahaha360 in one shipment (for people who chose the US economy shipping option anyway).
if it's the latter, would it be possible for me to change my shipping option? as I'd like my Ncase before the end of August if possible (I have all of August free to fiddle with my build
hshot_rooke
n00b
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2014
- Messages
- 42
Hi all,
This will be my first mitx build. Currently I've got an Corsair AIO in my ATX tower and it is pretty loud. I know quite a few people in the thread has a M1 v1, can anyone tell me from their experiences if any of their AIO's are close to silent?
Alternatively, I wouldn't be opposed to go custom watercooling but I have no idea what I would be buying in terms of blocks/reservoirs fitments/tubing/rads.....
Any help appreciated, thanks.
This will be my first mitx build. Currently I've got an Corsair AIO in my ATX tower and it is pretty loud. I know quite a few people in the thread has a M1 v1, can anyone tell me from their experiences if any of their AIO's are close to silent?
Alternatively, I wouldn't be opposed to go custom watercooling but I have no idea what I would be buying in terms of blocks/reservoirs fitments/tubing/rads.....
Any help appreciated, thanks.
Just thinking out loud, since one of the big 'limitations' of the i7 5820k Haswell-E chip is that it will only have 28 PCIe lanes instead of 40, would manufacturers try to take advantage of this and make a 'gimped' x99 platform on miniITX... I'm hoping the way Intel limited this entry-level chip to haswell-E will work out in our favor
Bobalias_LeShay
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2013
- Messages
- 287
I think the chances of that are slim to none. Why would you put a monster chip in a form factor that only allows 1 PCIe slot and 2 DIMMs? It just doesn't make any sense. Not to mention you're then into a submarket of a submarket. People who want ITX and people who need a sledgehammer of a processor.
JJ from Asus once mentioned that even though something like a X79/X99 might be possible (daughterboards, etc.), it would be a rahter expensive niche solutions.
If AMD would get their shit together and finally bring a modern high performance consumer oriented CPU which would be on par with Intel CPUs in per core performance, then Intel would be forced to sooner or later also release 6-core & 8-core consumer chips in the 200-300$ price range
I'm aware of that discussion with JJ. I guess what I'm trying to pint out here is that the 'gimped' 5820k chip with it's limited 28 PCIe lanes is already strongly pushing manufacturers toward mATX boards for entry-level Haswell-E. at which point I was hoping that demand for an mITX board would ramp up a bit.
if you think about it, I don't think it's too far fetched. the Ncase is extra small. but there are lots of horizontal mITX cases out-there that could easily fit everything people such as graphics professions might want from the Haswell-E plateform.
anyway, just wanted to throw the idea out there... I'll keep dreaming but probably end up buying a z97 rog board
Curiositie
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2014
- Messages
- 465
There wouldn't be a way to order just a side panel, would there?
I feel like it would be neat to put a window on the side panel until I watercool, then switch back to the stock panel for the vents.
As far as I could tell when the order page was still up, It was just top panels and full kits.
or maybe just full kits.
I feel like it would be neat to put a window on the side panel until I watercool, then switch back to the stock panel for the vents.
As far as I could tell when the order page was still up, It was just top panels and full kits.
or maybe just full kits.
I don't know if this is old news, but I just read a post on OCN where a guy was told by Silverstone via email that the new SFX PSU's will be available in August. Should line up fairly well with v2 shipments if that's true! Crossing my fingers it is...
I got bored and sent Seasonic an email if they will make bigger SFX psus and explained that there are a lot of buyers in need of such model etc.
Sadly, and i quote :
Dear customer,
Thank you for contacting Sea Sonic Support Team.
We do not plan to design higher SFX PSU recently and we really appreciate your support.
Thank you.
Sadly, and i quote :
Dear customer,
Thank you for contacting Sea Sonic Support Team.
We do not plan to design higher SFX PSU recently and we really appreciate your support.
Thank you.
The new 500W SFX-L and 600W SFX are not even available to the public yet and you are already asking for bigger ones?I got bored and sent Seasonic an email if they will make bigger SFX psus and explained that there are a lot of buyers in need of such model etc.
Sadly, and i quote :
Dear customer,
Thank you for contacting Sea Sonic Support Team.
We do not plan to design higher SFX PSU recently and we really appreciate your support.
Thank you.
Bit-Tech interviewed Silverstone and they said this:
As they say themselves, these are in a way server level PSUs for consumer prices.
A comparable server PSU (80+ Gold) starts around $200 for 460W and can go to roughly $2000 for a 1500W model.
Give them some time to test these first. Iron out the kinks and maybe, just maybe they can increase wattage.
EDIT: Sorry, I misread. You asked Seasonic not Silverstone. For now the main SFX supplier seems like it will be Silverstone and probably Scythe.
Will the left angle plugs be plugs be made available directly on the website, or will be need to send an e-mail to Wahaha?
Lol that's me!
i was happy when receiving that email that's about when these cases will be shipping out!Not planning to do that.
Via the website, probably. Keep in mind the accessories will be shipped with the extra units by ocean freight, so they won't be here for a few months (this doesn't include the panel kits that were already pre-ordered; they'll be shipped by the buyer's chosen method.).
Phuncz
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2009
- Messages
- 2,630
And the view from above ? I'm curious how it looks like from the outside of the case.
Allanitomwesh
Weaksauce
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2014
- Messages
- 74
Long-time lurker here,figured might as well join and comment now.
I also like the idea of a DTX motherboard,and I have noticed pretty much all the major manufacturers make at least one,as a budget mATX board like say Gigabyte GA-B85M-DS3H or ECS B85H3-M7 or Asus B85M-G
What would stop them from using the parts on their high end ITX boards,on these DTX sized chunks of PCB with the extra slots included? Instant Z97 "micro ATX-ish"?Really couldn't care less what they called it as long as it fits in ITX cases.
Also,will you ever go back and continue with your vertical case design? I understand it was dropped because Silverstone has a patent on it,but I don't think they are bad peoples to extent they'd sue you.Thought it was a great idea for saving desk space.
In this though process,perhaps have a HDD of a higher capacity than 1TB in 2.5in format and a quiet,enthusiast performing,low profile air cooler. Those were my ideas,the air cooler would of course leave one free to liquid cool two gpu's in single slot....
PlayfulPhoenix
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2014
- Messages
- 302
Looking past the M1, there are lots of cases that fit ITX motherboards. For DTX motherboards, not so much - unless you pick something something that fits much larger mATX boards as well.
I suppose you essentially have a chicken and egg problem here. Board manufacturers won't make a motherboard that fits in just a couple cases of reasonable size, and when the demand isn't apparent since so many people are satisfied with the smaller-still ITX form factor. Further, case manufactures have very little incentive to support a motherboard size/standard that almost nobody uses (and this is doubly true for small cases where every bit of volume counts).
FWIW, there's a great thread here on HF that has someone trying to make a small case that uses mATX for the PCI slots - and the current design is really not that much larger than the M1.
All SS would have to do is send them a formal request to cease manufacture. Silverstone would actually probably do that with Lian-Li, since they are the company making the cases. I don't see Lian-Li, Necere or Wahaha spending time and effort on something they know to be illegal.
The alternative would be that they have Silverstone themselves manufacture the case, which is much more plausible. I recall Tony Ou suggesting that SS could do small custom runs way back when they were considering options for the prototype and initial run... But then, of course, you have all the effort needed for another case. Which is really, really considerable.
There are lots of DTX compatible cases ...
SG05/06
Node 304
Prodigy / Phenom ...
250D
etc.
all of them fit DTX motherboards.
There aren't to many with an extra slot though
Allanitomwesh
Weaksauce
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2014
- Messages
- 74
Mainstream ITX cases support DTX,they just lack the third slot,but the board will fit.
I think as a crowdsource all it would need is a reason for one,and people with want,and right now that reason is the M1.Think sound card,other type of card like TV tuner or even liquid cooled crossfire....but i don't think we'd have any luck getting board makers to go retail with DTX
Checking out that thread,good stuff
There's no rush with the tall design,I don't think necrere would even be up to more stress,but I do believe Silverstone's patent is almost over in a few years....
A case for DTX could also be made as a minimal-compromise replacement for an mATX board, with a reduced PCB area (and thus lower production costs).
With only two PCI-E slots and two memory slots, it would slot in at or below the current low-end mATX boards in the lineup. Many low-end mATX boards are really FlexATX boards anyway, so it would mean losing an extra PCI-E slot (I rarely see FlexATX boards using the full 4 slot capability) and about 21mm lopped off the right side of the board.
With only two PCI-E slots and two memory slots, it would slot in at or below the current low-end mATX boards in the lineup. Many low-end mATX boards are really FlexATX boards anyway, so it would mean losing an extra PCI-E slot (I rarely see FlexATX boards using the full 4 slot capability) and about 21mm lopped off the right side of the board.
PlayfulPhoenix
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2014
- Messages
- 302
That's six cases. Newegg currently has eighty. Certainly some of them will support it incidentally, but I think my point stands
Also:None of the cases you mention (milkcow) support a third expansion slot which a mini DTX board would use, either for dual-slot graphics or a third expansion-slot-mounted device. That greatly diminishes the purpose of a board whose sole advantage against a broadly accepted form factor (ITX) is to provide additional slots - mainly because if you want discrete graphics, they now have to be low-power (weak) or water-cooled (very expensive) in order to fit in one slot (a dual-slot GPU would cover the extra PCI slot the mini DTX board would be used for). Now you have a niche within-a-niche within-a-niche
To be clear, I'm not saying I think mini DTX is a bad idea, or that I don't want it to catch on - I very much do! It's just that I don't ever realistically see that happening. A crowdfunded case that sells a thousand or so units is not going to motivate motherboard manufacturers to spend a lot of money developing a motherboard in a form factor that many builders don't even know exists. Ditto for small runs of mini DTX boards inspiring case manufacturers. If you really want this, you pretty much have to go with small runs for both a case and a motherboard, which is very expensive and inconvenient (to say the least).
(You can find and use a cheap motherboard on occasion, alternatively, but that has its own list of drawbacks.)
By my thinking, the only group of people that would be interested in DTX would be those who:
- Want either a low-power discrete graphics card, or a high-power discrete water-cooled graphics card, or a PCI device,
- and 1 or 2 additional PCI cards/expansion-slot-mounted devices,
- in a ITX-sized case,
- but don't want dual graphics cards.
- Currently if you want an ITX-sized case, you only get one PCI device. Obviously, if you use discrete graphics, you have no slots left.
- A mATX case and motherboard address this, but you have a much bigger case. If your highest priority is volume reduction, that's untenable.
- With an ITX board you can have dual-GPUs on a single card, and keep the system power consumption within the constraints that SFX power supplies impose (up to 600W). With dual-card solutions, this isn't true, particularly since pairing two low-power cards is not cost effective. So you'd need an ATX power supply, which, alongside the beefy graphics, would necessitate a lot more space and cooling, greatly increasing the case size, and thus undermining the previous point.
AFD
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2013
- Messages
- 2,154
Thanks for posting! Is that an already made Demci filter, or did you submit a template? And if a custom request, is there any way for us to easily request the same?
I really don't mind the magnetic filter frame blocking the outside ventilation holes, but I'm wondering if it's possible to maybe trim the adhesive pieces (perhaps cut in half length-wise) and still have it hold the filter in place. If that's the sticky backside showing through in your 2nd pic, you're going to have dust getting stuck in there.
Demciflex make a filters of different sizes any needed. Don't forget note in order about magnetic tape ! They removed without any problem and clean easy a filter frame it's a bit wider for more stable hanging. Highly recommend this option , cost me 1x DEMCiflex Filter Ferrous Black/black O/D 270mm x 130mm (I/D 262mm x 102mm) @ USD 9.17 each.
And use this one for the bottom 1 x DEMCiflex Filter Ferrous Black/black O/D 280mm x 150mm (I/D 252mm x 122mm) @ USD 10.55 each
Last edited: