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NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)
- Thread starter wahaha360
- Start date
Hi everyone
Thanks to Wahaha and Necere for making this absolutely amazing case possible. I love it. want to know how much? I am taking this over my original reservation for the Murderbox M2
Anyway, after getting my order in for rev2, I've been combing through this thread and have more or less made up my mind about my summer build. I'll be upgrading from an 2500k based build to a 4790K with full watercooling. and by full watercooling, I mean dual 240mm rads, one with mid-high fin density on the side, and a thin fin one on the bottom with the 15mm prolimatech fans.
This for this build to happen, I noticed two concerns: I think the apogee drive II would be a better option than the H220 to drive the whole loop, but I've noticed more than a few users having problems with the apogee (the H220 has it's own problems). I dug a little deeper and saw on the spec sheet for the Apogee drive II that it is only rated to function at up to 60 degrees Celcius, could this be why so many users are seeing their Apogees fail?
http://www.swiftech.com/ApogeeDrive2.aspx#tab3
The other common problem with water cooling in the Ncase seem to be the poor quality of the custom rad. So I was wondering if something like the EK X3 res would work on that slot? people have mentioned that they were using it, but I could never find any pics, especially regarding the mounting. would the vent holes on the back of the Ncase or some of the fan holes line up perfectly for the EK X3?
Thanks to Wahaha and Necere for making this absolutely amazing case possible. I love it. want to know how much? I am taking this over my original reservation for the Murderbox M2
Anyway, after getting my order in for rev2, I've been combing through this thread and have more or less made up my mind about my summer build. I'll be upgrading from an 2500k based build to a 4790K with full watercooling. and by full watercooling, I mean dual 240mm rads, one with mid-high fin density on the side, and a thin fin one on the bottom with the 15mm prolimatech fans.
This for this build to happen, I noticed two concerns: I think the apogee drive II would be a better option than the H220 to drive the whole loop, but I've noticed more than a few users having problems with the apogee (the H220 has it's own problems). I dug a little deeper and saw on the spec sheet for the Apogee drive II that it is only rated to function at up to 60 degrees Celcius, could this be why so many users are seeing their Apogees fail?
http://www.swiftech.com/ApogeeDrive2.aspx#tab3
The other common problem with water cooling in the Ncase seem to be the poor quality of the custom rad. So I was wondering if something like the EK X3 res would work on that slot? people have mentioned that they were using it, but I could never find any pics, especially regarding the mounting. would the vent holes on the back of the Ncase or some of the fan holes line up perfectly for the EK X3?
AFD
2[H]4U
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Wow, that's quite a crazy change-up!
Nice to see the M1 v2 bringing in another huge surge of new members.. welcome to [H] everybody!
Aw, poor Murderbox. Charles actually dropped us an email a few months back congratulating us on the project. Thought that was nice of him.
In any case, it's always good to hear that people appreciate the work we've done, so thanks for that.
Probably the toughest build you could do in this case. Hope you're in for a challenge!
I hadn't heard that the AD2 had a high failure rate... it's more or less an upgraded Laing DDC, which is one of the most commonly used pumps for watercooling out there. I'd be very surprised if water temps were getting anywhere close to 60C in any loop.
There's a build with an EK res in the user build gallery (black/white/blue, about halfway down). The rear mount is a standard set of 92 and 80mm fan mounting holes, so any res with a suitable bracket will work. Koolance has tube reservoirs with a bracket that should work.
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PlayfulPhoenix
Limp Gawd
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Woo
I'm no longer alone! I (currently) have very similar ambitions, though I won't be building until the end of the year, roughly.I've been debating between the Apogee Drive II and the Cooler Master Glacer 240L (which is the spiritual successor to the H220 and is developed by Swiftech for US sale). The Apogee would theoretically be "better" (and the build gallery shows that it's used in plenty of builds), but the 240L is a much better value - you get the block and side radiator for less than the Apogee all by itself!
Not sure what you mean here, could you elaborate?
For some reason it's a typo that happens a lot. He meant "res," of course, and the FrozenQ M1 res specifically.
PlayfulPhoenix
Limp Gawd
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Gooootcha.
Wow, I go to bed and so many replies... should've joined months ago And I've had a fair amount of communication with Charles over the past year or two, really nice guy, and the Murderbox is really a really nice product. but it really only holds 5 x 120mm rad space. granted I'll probably have a lower fin density with my 2 x 240m rads on the Ncase, but I don't feel I'll be sacrificing much
Phoenix, Necere is right, I did mean the FrozenQ M1 res specifically. while I suspect that people who got a nice res might be keeping quiet, the problems i've seen on this forum doesn't make me too excited about paying $90+ for one. Thanks for pointing out the Ek res in the gallery Necere, I totally missed it
Also, thanks for the reassurance Necere, I'll try my luck with the Apogee DII then. though maybe I should be extreme and use indigo xtreme (yes that's a practiced line, I've always wanted to say that) with their 90C burn in right under the pump.
Phoenix, I guess I"ll be joining you in the double rad club once all my hardware are ordered and sitting in my den. I really liked the refinements Intel has done on the i7 4790K, and figured that a double rad setup will really show me its full potential. on the GPU side I'll be rocking my trusty 7970 (I think it may even be a first edition, got it in January of 2012 LOL) until Maxwell comes along. just felt better about getting an $100 waterblock for it and wait, rather than go through all the trouble (and cost) of getting an 780 ti now and be all jelly of the maxwell folks come 2015
And I've had a fair amount of communication with Charles over the past year or two, really nice guy, and the Murderbox is really a really nice product. but it really only holds 5 x 120mm rad space. granted I'll probably have a lower fin density with my 2 x 240m rads on the Ncase, but I don't feel I'll be sacrificing muchPhoenix, Necere is right, I did mean the FrozenQ M1 res specifically. while I suspect that people who got a nice res might be keeping quiet, the problems i've seen on this forum doesn't make me too excited about paying $90+ for one. Thanks for pointing out the Ek res in the gallery Necere, I totally missed it
Also, thanks for the reassurance Necere, I'll try my luck with the Apogee DII then. though maybe I should be extreme and use indigo xtreme (yes that's a practiced line, I've always wanted to say that
) with their 90C burn in right under the pump. Phoenix, I guess I"ll be joining you in the double rad club once all my hardware are ordered and sitting in my den. I really liked the refinements Intel has done on the i7 4790K, and figured that a double rad setup will really show me its full potential. on the GPU side I'll be rocking my trusty 7970 (I think it may even be a first edition, got it in January of 2012 LOL) until Maxwell comes along. just felt better about getting an $100 waterblock for it and wait, rather than go through all the trouble (and cost) of getting an 780 ti now and be all jelly of the maxwell folks come 2015
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Curiositie
Limp Gawd
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On another note related to me asking if anyone had used the DC-LT in this case..
Can someone measure the space between the I/O panel and radiator/fans when using a H220 (or any other ~30mm thick radiator with 25mm thick fans) ?
Can someone measure the space between the I/O panel and radiator/fans when using a H220 (or any other ~30mm thick radiator with 25mm thick fans) ?
PlayfulPhoenix
Limp Gawd
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You'll likely beat me to the build - But welcome to the club
The ironically fortunate limitation of needing to save some more for my build means I'll be ready to buy parts when Broadwell is out and Maxwell is likely to be released - if not close enough where waiting is justified. In the interim, I've been giving layout and part selection a good amount of thought, but my experience with watercooling is quite limited & dated. I have plenty to learn!
I do wonder how many others are also considering two 240mm radiators, though. Or, putting just one on the bottom of the case. I'd expect that having some confirmation of this being possible earlier in the thread may very well have invited more people to more seriously consider doing it. Anyone else planning on a dual-dual-rad setup?
Curiositie
Limp Gawd
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I'm thinking about it.
Realistically I shouldn't need more than 1x240, I'll be using a stock or close to it i5 3670k, and a 560ti that will be upgraded to something Maxwell at some point.
But more radiator space means more quiet, and that's my goal.
So I was planning on an xt45 on the side, and a st30 for the bottom, or more likely two st30's.
Realistically I shouldn't need more than 1x240, I'll be using a stock or close to it i5 3670k, and a 560ti that will be upgraded to something Maxwell at some point.
But more radiator space means more quiet, and that's my goal.
So I was planning on an xt45 on the side, and a st30 for the bottom, or more likely two st30's.
The rads will fit but the tubing might be hard to run down to the GPU. There's a build in the gallery with a CLC on a short GPU.
Phuncz
2[H]4U
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So the "screwless no ODD" can be placed on a version 1 without issue ?
*finger on the order-button*
*finger on the order-button*
yay ordered silver set and black no odd top and silver no odd top
EDIT: the shipping for the black top panel without ODD is different to the shipping for the silver panel? oop didn't realize that i hadn't changed the country yet
4 deliveries :[
EDIT: the shipping for the black top panel without ODD is different to the shipping for the silver panel? oop didn't realize that i hadn't changed the country yet
4 deliveries :[
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W360 wants to keep the number of SKUs down for the Taiwan-originating shipments. So other parts may not be available until later.
Yes, the panels are interchangeable between V1 and V2. Correction: V2 top panels are not compatible with V1 front panels. Other panel combinations are okay.
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are these panel orders completely separate from the current Ncase rev2 production?
what I mean is: will the panel orders still be available after June 22nd? and have you guys basically ordered a panel bundle from LL, and they'll be sold while supplies last?
what I mean is: will the panel orders still be available after June 22nd? and have you guys basically ordered a panel bundle from LL, and they'll be sold while supplies last?
Phuncz, I'm sorry, I made a mistake. There were some very minor adjustments to the panel dimensions between V1 and V2 so they fit a little better, but one of the side effects is that the V2 top panel is slightly too wide for the V1 front panel. None of the other panels are a problem. If you've ordered it already and want a refund on it, just drop us an email requesting it.
Lucky you... getting $1200 or so back from Charles for my Murderbox means I want to order parts now before I spend the money on some other silly thing
that aside, there are rumors that Intel may skip desktop Broadwell and go straight to launch Skylake at Computex or later in 2015, which could make sense since the main delay for Broadwell was the move to 14nm process, and production of mobile chips will make sure that the process is mature when Skylake production starts
though all in all, the power savings from a 14nm CPU plus 20nm GPU will probably make our double 240mm rads seem overkill
Not at this point, I think. It complicates things from a logistics point of view.
The panels will be produced alongside the M1, and shipped at the same time. We do plan on ordering more than are ordered before June 22nd, which will be sold through the website once they get to the US.
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Necere+W360, glad to hear about the panels being available!
I don't believe Swiftech releases data on RMAs, so it's impossible to know just from reading complaints in forums what the actual failure rate is.
I can say somethings about it
- the AD2 contains the MCP35X pump which is a very high quality pump and has been popular since its release as one of the best Laing DDC based implementations
- all DDC pumps get hot when it runs in a low restriction loop; it's just the way they are designed. If you are only cooling CPU and GPU with a single rad and short tubing, then you should not run it at 100%. Something like 30% to 40% PWM is sufficient for a short loop.
- your coolant will never reach 60C unless something is very wrong; if case air temp is higher than 40C, then you need to worry about the PSU before you worry about the pump (providing it's not running at 100%).
I have two AD2s running 24/7 and would buy again +1
I don't believe Swiftech releases data on RMAs, so it's impossible to know just from reading complaints in forums what the actual failure rate is.
I can say somethings about it
- the AD2 contains the MCP35X pump which is a very high quality pump and has been popular since its release as one of the best Laing DDC based implementations
- all DDC pumps get hot when it runs in a low restriction loop; it's just the way they are designed. If you are only cooling CPU and GPU with a single rad and short tubing, then you should not run it at 100%. Something like 30% to 40% PWM is sufficient for a short loop.
- your coolant will never reach 60C unless something is very wrong; if case air temp is higher than 40C, then you need to worry about the PSU before you worry about the pump (providing it's not running at 100%).
I have two AD2s running 24/7 and would buy again +1
A full V2 kit will still work on a V1 case though right?
Yes, as noted in the disclaimer I've added to the order page.
PlayfulPhoenix
Limp Gawd
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Necere, you're kicking ass and taking names... And you just ran out of names That aside, there are rumors that Intel may skip desktop Broadwell and go straight to launch Skylake at Computex or later in 2015, which could make sense since the main delay for Broadwell was the move to 14nm process, and production of mobile chips will make sure that the process is mature when Skylake production starts
Well, the 9 Series chipset explicitly supports Broadwell CPU's, so I'm feeling confident that there will be Broadwell desktop chips. They might be pushed out a little while for the sake of prioritizing mobile, though. But in the meantime we seem to have escaped Intel's initial plans for an alternating, on-year off-year desktop CPU cadence.
Well, you could achieve identical overclocks with less noise. Or perhaps more aggressive overclocks if thermals were the original limitation (unlikely). Or - the most appealing to me - a dual-GPU card could really be pushed, without resorting to converting your M1 into a very pretty leafblower
(I am really, really hoping that nVidia sees Maxwell's power savings as an opportunity to come out with a GTX 890...)
vipz
Gawd
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About the V2 panels, any chance they will have less warping?
What about the spot welds for the pins, any chance they will be less obvious on the outside?
In other words, are the V2 panels a worthwhile upgrade for V1 owners if they don't want a different color?
What about the spot welds for the pins, any chance they will be less obvious on the outside?
In other words, are the V2 panels a worthwhile upgrade for V1 owners if they don't want a different color?
Are the weld deformations obvious? IMO you really have to be looking for them in the right lighting to see them at all. But there's no change to the process or material thickness, so I guess if it bothers you now the new ones won't be any better.
As for warping, again, the process and materials haven't changed. What has changed are some small adjustments to the panel dimensions which make any warping that is present less apparent.
Geoffrey4283
Weaksauce
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I'd worry a little bit about compatibility with the audio daughter-board; they've moved it down almost an entire SATA port, and the EK block has a channel cut in it just for that.
The new Fractal Design Kelvin AIO liquid coolers have standard G1/4 fittings and look like a decent alternative to the Swiftech H220/CM Glacer 240L for expandable loops:
Pic from Sweclockers
The 240mm rad at 275mm x 30mm should fit nicely in the M1 (specs).
Pic from Sweclockers
The 240mm rad at 275mm x 30mm should fit nicely in the M1 (specs).
The new Fractal Design Kelvin AIO liquid coolers have standard G1/4 fittings and look like a decent alternative to the Swiftech H220/CM Glacer 240L for expandable loops:
Pic from Sweclockers
The 240mm rad at 275mm x 30mm should fit nicely in the M1 (specs).
I really like the clean aesthetichs of the waterblock/pump as well. Might look a bit cheap though. Swiftech design is a bit too messy imo. Either way it is nice to see more options surfacing.
trick_m0nkey
Supreme [H]ardness
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Ordered a set of extra side panels, perfect I'm so happy you guys made these available. Thanks very much again
vipz
Gawd
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No, the weld deformations aren't obvious, though I can use any small improvements to help convince myself to get a another set of panels
Can you explain a bit more about the adjustments to make any warping less apparent?
Curiositie
Limp Gawd
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That Fractal AIO looks amazing for us, the TechPowerUp article makes it sound like it's definitely a ST30, I'm excited.
This photo makes it look as if it's possible to fit a 120mm rad + fan in the bottom front 120mm mount, if I had a shorter GPU, like the 750 Ti (only 145mm long, the 760 DirectCU II Mini pictured below is 170mm).
https://i.imgur.com/no0nU3b.jpg
A 750ti should give 25mm of clearance from the edge of the mobo. Pictures depict the bottom fan mount location as having a bit of overhang into the board area, but I was wondering if this is enough. Ideally, I'd be able to mount an AIO watercooling unit to a 750ti, and install the AIO's rad+fan in the bottom of the case.
Then, I'd be able to install another 120mm AIO to the CPU and mount it on the left fan bracket mount, as well as a pair of 3.5in media drives, with a boot drive in the ODD mount. And all this in only 12L!!
EDIT: alternatively, I guess I could even install a slim 240 AIO to the bottom, but with only one fan installed.
https://i.imgur.com/no0nU3b.jpg
A 750ti should give 25mm of clearance from the edge of the mobo. Pictures depict the bottom fan mount location as having a bit of overhang into the board area, but I was wondering if this is enough. Ideally, I'd be able to mount an AIO watercooling unit to a 750ti, and install the AIO's rad+fan in the bottom of the case.
Then, I'd be able to install another 120mm AIO to the CPU and mount it on the left fan bracket mount, as well as a pair of 3.5in media drives, with a boot drive in the ODD mount. And all this in only 12L!!
EDIT: alternatively, I guess I could even install a slim 240 AIO to the bottom, but with only one fan installed.
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The top panel is about 0.5mm wider, which pushes against the side panels when they're on. If the side panels are slightly bowed, it will push them flatter. The front panel is also slightly wider, which minimizes any apparent bowing out at the ends of the side panels.