NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

Hey guys!

Sorry I was unable to post build results right away. Too many things to do...
Anyway, here is the working machine:
PC_small.jpg


Build process was quite straight forward. Due to time constraints I was unable to trim cables and tubing. Also GPU is not water-cooled for now. These tasks are to be done later on.
_MG_5100.jpg


Couple notes about assembly worth mentioning.
1. H220 on Gigabyte MB is a very tight fit. Horizontal positioning is impossible as H200 would push RAM stick too hard and may displace it. Vertical positioning is OK but with my particular GPU H220 was hitting GPU backplate screw so I had to reposition tubing a bit. (Could not switch PC off so pictures is not very informative)
_MG_5104.jpg


2. I was unable to fit two SSDs next to PSU inside the front plate. I understand that my second SSD is not slim, but taking into account the width of plates holding 2 SSDs together I don't know how it is possible to stick it there. So I had to put it underneath GPU.
_MG_5102.jpg


Notes not related to M1:
  • The PC would not start with my old keyboard plugged in. Very weird. I am using simple keyboard for now but will look deeper into this issue as my old one is the one I love so much (Optimus Maximus) ;)
  • Old SSD (F120) is detected by MB only after reboot. This may very well be SSD firmware problem. Need to investigate.
 
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Rapture1983 said:
I'd like to use an Aquaero 5 XT in this case. Do you think it would fit in the front above the frontpanel? I know I'd have to cut the front ;)
Click to expand...
You'd need to cut both the front panel and the front of the chassis, as well as remove the two side panel clips on either side. And work out a way of mounting it. And it wouldn't be flush with the front panel due to the angled sides. But yes, in theory you could.



Nikoi said:
2. I was unable to fit two SSDs next to PSU inside the front plate. I understand that my second SSD is not slim, but taking into account the width of plates holding 2 SSDs together I don't know how it is possible to stick it there. So I had to put it underneath GPU.
Click to expand...
The inside-front chassis mount is limited to one 2.5" with the H220 installed due to the length of the radiator. This is something I mentioned in the watercooling build test notes. I wouldn't blame you if you missed it, though.
 
wahaha360 said:
SPCR, Maximum PC might do a review, but we don't have product for review right now.
Click to expand...

That would be really badass for Maximum PC to do a review in their actual printed magazine.. hopefully with the M1 featured on the front cover. I bet nearly everyone here would buy a copy!

(not that we really need a professional review, but it would serve as a powerful statement to the industry that they better wake up and start listening to their customers' needs, or be left behind)
 
Necere said:
You'd need to cut both the front panel and the front of the chassis, as well as remove the two side panel clips on either side. And work out a way of mounting it. And it wouldn't be flush with the front panel due to the angled sides. But yes, in theory you could.



The inside-front chassis mount is limited to one 2.5" with the H220 installed due to the length of the radiator. This is something I mentioned in the watercooling build test notes. I wouldn't blame you if you missed it, though.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much. Doesn't look good at all. I gues I'll have to find another solution.
 
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Geoffrey4283 said:
Asked the guy that designed it about a couple potential pain points; he confirmed that it is made to support the SupremeFX daughterboard, and that an M.2/NGFF should fit (as the stock heatsink and the PCH/SB portion of the waterblock are essentially the same height). The only thing he isn't certain about is whether the audio headers on the daughtercard clear the top of the block; he's going to check when he's back to work tomorrow.
Click to expand...

Did you get any word back on the question of audio header clearance?
 
Should I be at all concerned that I haven't seen anything resembling a tracking number on the ncases site? Almost last minute purchase here so it's rather understandable that I get served last. Just sort of wondering here.
 
FnordMan said:
Should I be at all concerned that I haven't seen anything resembling a tracking number on the ncases site? Almost last minute purchase here so it's rather understandable that I get served last. Just sort of wondering here.
Click to expand...

Indiegogo mail:

Hi everyone,

All M1s shipped. Delivery estimated around mid December.

All tracking numbers updated. Log into www.ncases.com and look for a number starting with "C" in the "Shipping Label" box beneth your address.

To track your package, please use the Taiwan Postal Office tracking service, http://postserv.post.gov.tw/webpost/CSController?cmd=POS4007_1.

The Taiwan Postal Office hasn't updated tracking status because all packages are en route. I'm currently looking into this for more updates. I will make announcement once I have something.

If you didn't get a tracking number, send me an email ([email protected]).

We will keep at it until every package arrives at your door.

Thank you all for making it possible!
Click to expand...
 
FnordMan said:
Should I be at all concerned that I haven't seen anything resembling a tracking number on the ncases site? Almost last minute purchase here so it's rather understandable that I get served last. Just sort of wondering here.
Click to expand...

Another email update was sent out today. If you didn't get a tracking number you better email them.



Hi everyone,

All M1s shipped. Delivery estimated around mid December.

All tracking numbers updated. Log into www.ncases.com and look for a number starting with "C" in the "Shipping Label" box beneth your address.

To track your package, please use the Taiwan Postal Office tracking service, http://postserv.post.gov.tw/webpost/CSController?cmd=POS4007_1.

The Taiwan Postal Office hasn't updated tracking status because all packages are en route. I'm currently looking into this for more updates. I will make announcement once I have something.

If you didn't get a tracking number, send me an email ([email protected]).

We will keep at it until every package arrives at your door.

Thank you all for making it possible!
 
Nikoi said:
Hey guys!

Sorry I was unable to post build results right away. Too many things to do...
Anyway, here is the working machine:
PC_small.jpg


Build process was quite straight forward. Due to time constraints I was unable to trim cables and tubing. Also GPU is not water-cooled for now. These tasks are to be done later on.
_MG_5100.jpg


Couple notes about assembly worth mentioning.
1. H220 on Gigabyte MB is a very tight fit. Horizontal positioning is impossible as H200 would push RAM stick too hard and may displace it. Vertical positioning is OK but with my particular GPU H220 was hitting GPU backplate screw so I had to reposition tubing a bit. (Could not switch PC off so pictures is not very informative)
_MG_5104.jpg


2. I was unable to fit two SSDs next to PSU inside the front plate. I understand that my second SSD is not slim, but taking into account the width of plates holding 2 SSDs together I don't know how it is possible to stick it there. So I had to put it underneath GPU.
_MG_5102.jpg


Notes not related to M1:
  • The PC would not start with my old keyboard plugged in. Very weird. I am using simple keyboard for now but will look deeper into this issue as my old one is the one I love so much (Optimus Maximus) ;)
  • Old SSD (F120) is detected by MB only after reboot. This may very well be SSD firmware problem. Need to investigate.
Click to expand...

how are the temperatures?
 
grazina said:
Can somebody that owns the ST45SF-G post a picture of the psu monted on the case using the full atx adaptor? Want to see how much clearance there is when the ST45SF-G is mounted as if it was a full size psu.
Don't think anybody as posted a picture of this particular setup. Would like it with the fan facing the inside of the case.
Thanks
Click to expand...

Necere, any chance you can help with this one?
 
grazina said:
One thing I find strange/peculiar is that this case generated so much bus and sales went beyond expectations, yet no hardware site as reviewed one, as in, no reviewer both one for themselves and reviewed it. Or maybe they 're all in the USA and the case have yet to arrive. But strange
Click to expand...

No need to review something that can't be bought :D Although I'm sure the NCASE team will certainly put the case for sale (or sale the design) in a few months from now. I think it's only fair, and I'd be very happy to see the case into the market. Nobody is going to steal my First edition #0366, so :D (also, just look at the "first edition").

Shockwave818 said:
I was able to purchase 2 cases, but it turns out I don't need the second. I was thinking of throwing it up for sale on the Hard sale forums to keep it "in the community" instead of going to eBay.

Is this okay to do, or frowned upon?
Click to expand...

I doubt it you will even need to put the sale listing. I'm sure you have some pm's already :cool:

grazina said:
Well, I don't actually need a review, since I sleep with the case less than 3 feet away from me, but there are so many websites that report on special projects and kickstarter endeavors, I'm just surprised no one picked up on this success story, seeing that the case is so amazing. After all, two guys whose face we've never seen, raised over 160 thousand dollars (more than twice the original ask) to build same pc cases and delivered a kickass product.

On a different and unrelated subject, The Falcon Tiki should be available in this case. The original case looks like #%& and the huge and heavy marble stone doesn't help. My Ncase M1 is about to become my own customized steam box. I already have all the components on stand by, expect for the fracking psu. Silverstone better come up with something new fast. I'm turning green and it's not with envy.
Click to expand...

Waiting is a nasty game. I just bought the damn psu and I'm done with it, everything functioning. Sure, I'd love to buy a more powerful psu but, after all the hours spend on cable routing (note: a PAIN in the ass that you can't make look good depending on your mobo layout) I'm in no way changing it until it blows up.

grazina said:
Can somebody that owns the ST45SF-G post a picture of the psu monted on the case using the full atx adaptor? Want to see how much clearance there is when the ST45SF-G is mounted as if it was a full size psu.
Don't think anybody as posted a picture of this particular setup. Would like it with the fan facing the inside of the case.
Thanks
Click to expand...

Imo, its totally pointless. Since the psu will still be at the same height, you will have the same gpu clearance, but you will have to sacrifice the HDD holder on the bracket and, maybe, the fan on such bracket, let alone you will have close to no space for cable routing nor anything.

May I ask what do you have in your mind?


Proglin said:
Necere,

I´m a bit confuse. How is it suppose to use 2 ssds in front?

Is it like this:
NhQ8BuB.jpg


If "almost" fit. Very tight to close. I think i´m doing something wrong (maybe it is because 2AM here)
Click to expand...

You are using the wrong screws. You have to use the counter sunk ones, I think they are the same that hold the top panel.

IanM said:
Z7dWe33.jpg
Click to expand...

Pointless and... late, VERY late.

Tute said:
/sigh

Go home MSI, you're drunk.

On a side note, I still haven't figured out how the hard drives attach. Anyone care to help?
Click to expand...

Its terribly easy and efficient. You have 2 actual places to put them:

a) Between the floor and the gpu. You put 4 grommets + 4 screws on the bottom of the hard-drive, and then slide it through the holes on the bottom of the case. Coulnd't be easier. On the bracket holder, you put 4 grommets + 4 screws on the sides of the HDD's, and slide them through such holder. Again, very easy.

----

A few critiques to the NCASE team:

a) There are far too many "clips" on the panels of the case. I think one of my panels got bent (mind you, close to nothing, but this is my little baby, so I took real care of it) just by putting it out (and I only did it ONCE).

b) The front IO (with the USBs and audio stuff)... I'd suggest you don't make it alu next time. Why? A handy place that is used to plug stuff is not useful if you need to handle it as if you were handling dynamite. Sure, it won't explode, but I'll die if I scratch my baby.

c) A sort of manual would be handy.. if anything to tell you which screws are used where. :D Trial and error also works... but it would have been easier.

d) I spent a few minutes looking at the panels and wondering if they were identical or what... they have a small dent on one corner that shows how to place them. A manual... :D

---

Other than that, and thats me being very very picky, I'd like to say that this is one of the easiest cases to handle I have ever worked with... and mind you, its BY FAR the smallest one ever. So, the fact that you can put many, many stuff in there, that everything is super efficient...heck even the hard-drives are as easy as it gets to put in place. Sure, you will have to change them like 5 times once you realise what is the optimal position for cable routing (hugh, Silverstone need to change the cables on the ST45SF-G. They are SO DAMN STIFF you have to make wonders to put them where you want them to be) and that its been done with a record-breaking time (big companies need... what? like 15 months to release a product that has flaws everywhere?)... then... KUDOS to you, and you better have made a nice profit since I want another NCASE (M2?), but this time at sub-10 liters. :D
 
prava said:
a) There are far too many "clips" on the panels of the case. I think one of my panels got bent (mind you, close to nothing, but this is my little baby, so I took real care of it) just by putting it out (and I only did it ONCE).
Click to expand...

You can easily remove the unnecesary plastic retainers on the case if you want to.
 
prava said:
Imo, its totally pointless. Since the psu will still be at the same height, you will have the same gpu clearance, but you will have to sacrifice the HDD holder on the bracket and, maybe, the fan on such bracket, let alone you will have close to no space for cable routing nor anything.

May I ask what do you have in your mind?
Click to expand...

It's ok, because I don't plan on using the hdd holder in that section of the case. Basically, I want to see the clearance because I plan on attempting this mod of the psu. With the psu in its normal position the noctua nh-c14 won't allow this to be done.
IaMTCl.jpg

As for gpu clearance its ok because there is more than enough space for a full size graphics card.
 
grazina:

You can put 92x92x14mm Noctua there. Actually I'm planning to make the whole bent sheet of PSU which holds the fan from scratch and attach such Noctua fan there...
 
Kaos_Drem said:
Its a 760.

http://videocardz.com/48042/msi-teasing-mini-itx-gaming-graphics-card
Click to expand...

not confirmed, just guessed:
"..
small factor gaming graphics card.

We are probably looking at GeForce GTX 760 GAMING. Card is featuring short PCB, two SLI fingers..."

(highlighting by me)

prava said:
...

[some pic of a MSI mITX + half length GPU combo]

Pointless and... late, VERY late.
...
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say that it's pointless. Late maybe and a shameful copy, but not pointless.
Why did Necere and Wahaha had to run a custom mITX case again?
Right - no offerings on the market.
I don't know about you, but to me a mITX board + color matching GPU in mITX form factor (full height, 170mm long) means, mITX is getting more attention which is a good thing :)
Or don't you want more choices in mITX?

PS: if you want to stay ahead of the curve/mainstream I'd be starting to look at nanoITX stuff by now :D
 
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PiT said:
grazina:

You can put 92x92x14mm Noctua there. Actually I'm planning to make the whole bent sheet of PSU which holds the fan from scratch and attach such Noctua fan there...
Click to expand...

On the outside, like grazina shows it mounted, or on the inside? If you're talking internal, in one of the various places I've been stalking WiSK across the internets, I recall him mentioning that the PCB attached to the power plug limits the size of the fan in one direction, and the board hosting the modular plugs limits the fan in the other direction, thus preventing a 92x92 from fitting (unable to dredge up source link, my google-fu is weak!). Tony Ou also noted some general restrictions, though I interpreted those from a manufacturing perspective, rather than a "could it work" perspective.

In my various fever dreams, I've contemplated what kind of mods would be required to the PSU housing to support a larger fan internally (either 92mm or 100mm, essentially edge-to-edge), and generally found myself at a loss. The teardown at Chiphell (http://www.chiphell.com/article-4711-4.html) has been especially helpful/discouraging in that regard.

Edit: verb replacement ('has' -> 'shows')
 
Geoffrey4283:

On the outside, I've the M1 already build and the ST45SF-G standard fan is terrible... I've had it disassembled allready. I know, the 92mm fan wouldn't fit, because in Silverstone they don't think... If they'd rotate the power connector with the small PCB 90 degrees, the 92mm fan would fit, but yes, a better and bigger fan would cost 5$ more :rolleyes:

The HDD cage with 2 3.5" HDDs should fit even if the 92x92x14mm noctua is on the outside of PSU...
 
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PiT said:
Geoffrey4283:

On the outside, I've the M1 already build and the ST45SF-G standard fan is terrible... I've had it disassembled allready. I know, the 92mm fan wouldn't fit, because in Silverstone they don't think... If they'd rotate the power connector with the small PCB 90 degrees, the 92mm fan would fit, but yes, a better and bigger fan would cost 5$ more :rolleyes:

The HDD cage with 2 3.5" HDDs should fit even if the 92x92x14mm noctua is on the outside of PSU...
Click to expand...

Thus why, in my fever dream, I wouldn't stop at just fabbing the piece of metal that makes up the sides and the fan-bracket, but also redo the back and front to rotate the power connector PCB like you're saying, and maybe drop the modular mounts as close to the floor as possible (if the board is in fact blocking like WiSK had said, though it appears they need the space for the internal wires to pass underneath because they're soldered from the front rather than the back... so maybe need to resolder the internal wires to pass out the back instead of going under the board... on and on the rabbit hole goes)...

And then I look back at all of that and say: HA! I am way too lazy for all of that, and have zero experience working with metal. But, much like the lotto, it is fun to dream...
 
PiT said:
The HDD cage with 2 3.5" HDDs should fit even if the 92x92x14mm noctua is on the outside of PSU...
Click to expand...

In that case, could one make new top and side panels for the psu that increases the depth from its current 63.5mm another 10mm to allow for a 25mm internal fan, or even thicker 32mm? Keeping in mind of course, maintaining allowance for 2 3.5" HDDs in the M1 cage...

Not sure how much benefit there would be in noise saved between a good 15mm and a good 25mm- just curious if it'd be possible and would perhaps increase the selection of available fans.

EDIT: Like being able to use this: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...-_500-2000_RPM_-_1-17_dBA.html?tl=g36c365s938
 
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Necere said:
Hmm... well, two things that I can think of:
  • Try removing the SATA cable from the front drive and see if you can get the front cover on. Some connectors may be thicker than others.
  • Use the smaller countersunk M3 screws to attach the drives to the brackets.
Click to expand...

prava said:
You are using the wrong screws. You have to use the counter sunk ones, I think they are the same that hold the top panel.
Click to expand...

Necere and Prava,

I changed screws but I think I will need to attach ssds from each side of the front chassi: one between front cover and chassi and other between chassi and PSU.

Without any connection (power or sata) it is already forcing 2 drives when close.
(I just screwed one side to test)

Look:

oAuNoQJ.jpg


Maybe I´m doing something wrong again. I need a manual \o/ Don´t know all kinds of differents screws.

BTW we could built a wiki-manual :D
 
Proglin said:
Necere and Prava,

I changed screws but I think I will need to attach ssds from each side of the front chassi: one between front cover and chassi and other between chassi and PSU.

Without any connection (power or sata) it is already forcing 2 drives when close.
(I just screwed one side to test)

Look:
Click to expand...
Try flipping the top drive around.
 
commander_ said:
Speaking of the 760, what's everyone thoughts on this?

http://rog.asus.com/276632013/graphics-cards-2/faster-than-titan-rog-launches-the-mars-760/

Two 760s in one card... that's amazing.
Click to expand...

Looks OK, they have done that sort of thing in the past. There have been Dual GTX 560 cards, for example. Like the 560 ti 2 Win, etc. It really depends on the price as to whether its worth buying or not, but it could be a good option in this case... Would have to see some benchmarks and power usage, etc.
 
extide said:
Looks OK, they have done that sort of thing in the past. There have been Dual GTX 560 cards, for example. Like the 560 ti 2 Win, etc. It really depends on the price as to whether its worth buying or not, but it could be a good option in this case... Would have to see some benchmarks and power usage, etc.
Click to expand...

Power usage is surprising really, 255W when gaming, ~330 when in Furmark.

Faster than a 780Ti in some benches.

But the price isn't pretty, it's 520 pounds. :eek:
 
Nikoi said:
After three days of continuous video editing and rendering in Adobe CC CPU ([email protected]) was at about 50 degrees and GPU (slightly OC 770GTX) was at about 65 degrees Celsius.
Click to expand...

Ambient? It's going to be summer here in Australia and here specifically in Adelaide, we hit 45 Celsius/113 Fahrenheit and more regularly.
 
Skott said:
Another email update was sent out today. If you didn't get a tracking number you better email them.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I noticed that mere hours after I made that post. It appears I spoke too soon. Thanks for the info anyway.

In other news: Really got to get my butt in gear and order the PSU for the thing if the case is already on it's way. (been putting it off)
 
SithSolo1 said:
I believe the cooler might be too long for the extra ".2" slot.
Click to expand...
You say "length" but use the word "slot" usually associated with a card's "thickness", so I guess you mean the length of the card as 2-3 slot cards are clearly not a problem for the Ncase:

do1NwAk.jpg

(dual-slot card)

But the length might be a problem. The card in the picture is an R9 290X reference which measures 275mm but that's probably the PCB + cooler without the bracket. You should check the first post for exact measurements.
 
Phuncz said:
You say "length" but use the word "slot" usually associated with a card's "thickness", so I guess you mean the length of the card as 2-3 slot cards are clearly not a problem for the Ncase:

*image snip*

But the length might be a problem. The card in the picture is an R9 290X reference which measures 275mm but that's probably the PCB + cooler without the bracket. You should check the first post for exact measurements.
Click to expand...

I think he was referring to the limitations placed on cards that extend into the front GPU cut-out. According to ncases.com, cards that take up more than 2 slots are limited to 11", and 308mm = 12+". Similarly, cards that extend beyond 11.5" are limited to a width of 4.4" (113mm = 4.45"). So, based on the dimensions originally quoted, the card is definitely going to have to take advantage of the cut-out. The question then becomes whether or not 4.4" was a ballpark, and 4.45" will fit through the cut-out width-wise (as the shroud thickness seems to be the same all the way to the end of the card), and whether or not the cut-off has enough margin of error to accommodate a 2.2 slot/41mm thick card.
 
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