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More DLSS...

I saw DLSS 3 improving image quality over native resolution before in Jedi Survivor. I usually played it with input resolution=output resolution (DLAA), but even when upscaling 50% native res x 50% res resolution (or 1/4th the input pixels, data) the image looked better than native resolution with DLSS off.. It was bonkers that was the case, and beyond impressive. I have an old thread with screenshots someplace...
And that was with the CNN method.
 
Yeah it's totally amazing. I even did DLSS perf at 1440p today -that's 720p input- and with transformers model it looks actually good enough in some games. Crazy.
 
Yep, dlss upscaling was already something I always enabled at quality in most games, now I will consider lower if I need more performance!

I like frame gen but it has room for improvement too.
 
Is the new driver worth installing for 4XXX series owners? I want to try DLSS 4 but the breaking of VRR on OLED and constant black screen on wake from sleep was giving me pause.
 
Is DLAA better than native 4k? In 2042 it LOOKS better than native 4k, and there is zero performance hit. It looks incredibly crispy.
 
DLAA is the best AA that I have seen. You are using the DLSS mechanisms' AA instead of any of the old AA's, and it is superior. It's just 1 piece of what DLSS does. AA, upscaling, and Frame Gen are the 3 features of DLSS that I can think of.
 
KickAssCop said:
Is the new driver worth installing for 4XXX series owners? I want to try DLSS 4 but the breaking of VRR on OLED and constant black screen on wake from sleep was giving me pause.
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Been using DLSS 4 on my 3090. I can tell you that balance and performance are MUCH better quality wise. I can tell you I didnt see any issues with VRR and an OLED monitor (or TV). Monster Hunter Wilds ran just fine on my 65inch Oled?

Tried it on Avowed, and yeah I was pretty impressed with the improvements.
 
GoodBoy said:
DLAA is the best AA that I have seen. You are using the DLSS mechanisms' AA instead of any of the old AA's, and it is superior. It's just 1 piece of what DLSS does. AA, upscaling, and Frame Gen are the 3 features of DLSS that I can think of.
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Don't forget ray reconstruction for less noise in ray traced games :).
 
GoldenTiger said:
Don't forget ray reconstruction for less noise in ray traced games :).
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It is positively amazing what a good job it does. It was good before but the new transformer model is just stunning. The amount of detail it gets from what is really noisy input is wonderful. It hits harder with the transformer model but is so worth it.
 
After like 20+ years of upgrading just so I can add more anti-aliasing (this used to be THE rationale for upgrading) we have DLAA and I must say I am impressed. Holy cow, I wonder what Doom: Dark Ages has in store for us with all this new tech. I’m not looking at gameplay videos to avoid spoiling it—I know I’m buying it.

I feel like it has been ages since I have had a button to push to actually ENHANCE image quality and put some new life into some older games (that support the override). I kind of see why NVIDIA is pushing the tensor core angle now, although we could use a bit more raster.

I feel like the level of detail DLAA injects into your eyeballs just takes things to another level, although dlss quality does not seem far off at all. I kind of hope 5090 has the headroom to just run Doom flat out with DLAA. I’m actually almost worried it might be a bit too intense! 😂
 
Blackstone said:
After like 20+ years of upgrading just so I can add more anti-aliasing (this used to be THE rationale for upgrading) we have DLAA and I must say I am impressed. Holy cow, I wonder what Doom: Dark Ages has in store for us with all this new tech. I’m not looking at gameplay videos to avoid spoiling it—I know I’m buying it.

I feel like it has been ages since I have had a button to push to actually ENHANCE image quality and put some new life into some older games (that support the override). I kind of see why NVIDIA is pushing the tensor core angle now, although we could use a bit more raster.

I feel like the level of detail DLAA injects into your eyeballs just takes things to another level, although dlss quality does not seem far off at all. I kind of hope 5090 has the headroom to just run Doom flat out with DLAA. I’m actually almost worried it might be a bit too intense! 😂
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It is basically the best TAA implementation on the market. The neural network lets it deal with most of TAA's issues very effectively.
 
While the majority of the article was focused on performance differences I thought the key takeaway that I was looking for an update on was :

“The more meaningful difference between these two products lies not in raw performance, but in the overall quality of the upscaling technology. DLSS 4 generally produces better visual results than FSR 4 at resolutions like 1440p, which are typical for mainstream GPUs.

While FSR 4 is certainly usable and has its strengths, DLSS 4 often provides more consistent visual stability. You can learn more about this in our DLSS 4 vs FSR 4 featurearticles.”
 
sethk said:
While the majority of the article was focused on performance differences I thought the key takeaway that I was looking for an update on was :

“The more meaningful difference between these two products lies not in raw performance, but in the overall quality of the upscaling technology. DLSS 4 generally produces better visual results than FSR 4 at resolutions like 1440p, which are typical for mainstream GPUs.

While FSR 4 is certainly usable and has its strengths, DLSS 4 often provides more consistent visual stability. You can learn more about this in our DLSS 4 vs FSR 4 featurearticles.”
Click to expand...
The big caveat with DLSS 4, is it can have a lot of disocclusion artifacts. In some games it can be so distracting, it may actually be better to force it back to DLSS3.

FSR4 is generally more consistent/better, about disocclusion.
FSR4's big caveat is that games with a lot of grass or vegetation, can potentially not look as high res and convincing, after the upscale. But its often also these same situations where DLSS4 is showing a lot of problems with disocclusion. So, pick your poison I guess.

But, overall, IMO, both are so good its not really worth fussing over. And soon, they will indeed both be so good you won't be able to tell the difference and it won't matter to the user, at all.
 
erek said:
already posted here hours ago,

Post in thread 'Lossless Scaling's Frame Generation Lands on Linux, Works on Steam Deck'
https://hardforum.com/threads/lossl...x-works-on-steam-deck.2042338/post-1046209328
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thats nice, im not allowed over there after telling you youre posting shit in the wrong spot too much. thats another example...
people complain about sub forums being dead while everyone jams everything into news and genmay.
just my opinion, not playing mod.

ps: the video shows a lot of examples of why i dont like the framegen shit. upscale is one thing, fake frames are bs.
 
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pendragon1 said:
ps: the video shows a lot of examples of why i dont like the framegen shit. upscale is one thing, fake frames are bs.
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Lossless scaling uses plain interpolation for its framegen. Nvidia's is based on machine learning and cleans the image up a lot as well as running faster. They aren't comparable, and I love Nvidia's in my games so long as I have a base framerate of around 60 to 70.

At that point the input lag penalty is largely unnoticeable thanks to reflex, and I get a lot more frames to have smoother motion and better motion clarity filling out the hz on my high refresh rate panels.
 
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Nvidia's frame gen has lower latency in theory, but in practice I don't notice the difference. Both solutions feel bad with a mouse unless we're talking 120fps to 240fps or something even higher.

No matter the frame gen tech used, I notice artefacts all the time. Lossless is worse, no question, but not by a lot. Nvidia's looks funky too.

I've seen in places like this forum people who claim to hate upscaling and do DLAA + FG but I'm sorry that is absolutely ridiculous and backwards. Your games have way more latency and way more visual glitches than if you were to use DLSS upscaling and no FG to attain the same final framerate. It's objectively better to upscale than to use frame gen.

I'm not saying frame gen is useless at all, I use it every day, but for now it's really a last resort solution to make a game more fun. Old games with a framerate lock for example, or something like CP77 or Indiana Jones where the path tracing makes enough of a visual difference that enabling FG feels like an acceptable tradeoff.
 
I'm probably going to tinker with the multiple GPU on that Lossless app this next weekend.

Kinda intrigued
 
DogsofJune said:
I'm probably going to tinker with the multiple GPU on that Lossless app this next weekend.

Kinda intrigued
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yeah that does look interesting.. I have room for a 4060 or something should I need a boot down the road. edit: a half height 5060 might be good as the secondary gpu..
 
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Multiple GPU would be more interesting if tech was moving fast enought to make good gpus of 5 years ago irrelevant today and a need to "find" something to do with those laying around....

Even a 2060 has still a lot of value to be used for this.

If iGPUs are good enough to be worth using for it too, that a lot of sitting around GPUs that could make sense.
 
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Maybe my B650 Gigabyte Aorus Elite AX board could run my A770 or RX 9060 XT 16GB cards and B570 in Multiple GPU if I could still keep the main PCIe slot full x16 without dropping to x8 / x8.
 
Using multiple GPUs is a little more complicated, as you need a motherboard that does not switch from PCI-e x16 to x8, because both PCI-e slots are in use, so keep this in mind before purchasing a second GPU.
 
AVATARAT said:
as you need a motherboard that does not switch from PCI-e x16 to x8
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Depend on the vram available, performance will not change much if the workload fit, specially if the gpu can use pci 5.0 x8, like the new 9060xt 16GB (has both 5.0 x16 possible from the B650-card combo and a nice amount of vram) could have virtually the same performance in all scenario, 5.0x8, 4.0-16x is perfectly fine virtually all the time for a 16GB gpu in games.
 
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LukeTbk said:
Depend on the vram available, performance will not change much if the workload fit, specially if the gpu can use pci 5.0 x8, like the new 9060xt 16GB (has both 5.0 x16 possible from the B650-card combo and a nice amount of vram)
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Yes, I agree, but the benefit of the second GPU for FG is almost the same. If we can use the iGPU, that's the best option, but I'm not sure if that works.
 
The board does PCIe 5 with the RX 9060 XT 16GB now, I have the iGpu off on the 7700x if that is an option to use as the second gpu for LS to work? sadly my x58 3-way Sli is long gone.
 
crazycrave said:
The board does PCIe 5 with the RX 9060 XT 16GB now, I have the iGpu off on the 7700x if that is an option to use as the second gpu for LS to work? sadly my x58 3-way Sli is long gone.
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I can't imagine it would. The iGPU in AMD desktop CPUs is tiny. An APU might be able to do it.
 
polonyc2 said:
AMD FSR Redstone Ray Regeneration Tested vs DLSS Ray Reconstruction


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuASMLRGFus
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I forgot to post it, but Daniel Owen also did a follow up video with his own comparison.
I kinda like his more DIY style. And he notices that even ignoring RR, COD seems to have different quality settings or "coverage" for Ray Tracing, between Nvidia and AMD.
The most noticeable example, is the water puddle which reflects the bamboo, as you come up the stairs from the pool area:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISrPis9TdHE
 
chameleoneel said:
The most noticeable example, is the water puddle which reflects the bamboo, as you come up the stairs from the pool area:
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i like the amd look better, its wet concrete not a deep puddle so it shouldnt reflect as much as nv's side.
 
pendragon1 said:
i like the amd look better, its wet concrete not a deep puddle so it shouldnt reflect as much as nv's side.
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DF does a really good job showing and explaining a few surprising details where AMD or Nvidia, technically look better than the other.

I think the situation with the puddle and the bamboo, looks to me like maybe AMD isn't tracing as many rays per frame. The reflection feels incomplete. Like the Bamboo itself isn't coded to trace as much detail, or something.
 
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