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Am I even gonna get a bare metal install or a VM?
Don't answer, I already know and I don't want to know.
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Microsoft wants to move Windows fully to the cloud
- Thread starter kac77
- Start date
Am I even gonna get a bare metal install or a VM?
Don't answer, I already know and I don't want to know.
Exactly you just print screenshoot that they never said to do it fully, they want to increase that business and make it work on more Televisions/device, they have at least 2 family of enterprise products. Maybe you read fast and if you already have the word in mind, you read fully when it says increasingly.
Do you think Windows (with the current Internet infrastructure, server cost, etc....) would try to loose everyone that would never pay, as something than run a web browser like a tablet enough for them, they do not need to rend a full blowm X86 machine to start with, gamers and other low-latency affair to shift the industry into something that cost them much more to run than having us pay for the hardware and its electricity ?
Having kids being on windows PC growing up because of games, making them more natural user of that system later on at work-school-etc... seem like a non-necessary risk to take, they show sign of trying to lock people in with direct storage and what not. Being the leader seem good for them.
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I can totally envision them doing this in developed countries, pushing a cloud version of Windows. I imagine maybe they'll still be some Windows Starter/offline version for emerging markets/countries like Africa and India.
They let companies run compute via cloud, they'll let you game. They already let you game on their servers using their electricity with GamePass. They can also limit how much you store probably if you're a data hoarder just like they already do to OneDrive users. And they only have all the monthly/annual subscriptions in the world to gain from it. They already did the cost to run it all to find the optimal subscription price probably. If not they'll just raise your subscription price.
Really been a question of not 'if' but 'when' for a while now IMO.
You would have the option to do that, not you must do that.
Not terribly different from a diskless client using a PXE boot.
Sure they already offer it on the Xbox I think, but the latency issue make it a big risk, pc gamers are often quite obsess.
Obviously, that not the question or the title of the thread, it has many advantage people want, they will make the product and publicized it yes (like they have been doing for years). it is not new.
I really doubt that you said one day microsoft will offer DevBox for 50 cent to $1 an hour to rent and people debated you that this will never be the case and will offer lesser one for work from home easier for company to setup, instead of remote working on a PC in the company building it is on Microsoft infrastructure.
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They'll tell you 'tough, go buy an Xbox then'
Honestly depending on what the pricing is I would consider this once the lease on my existing VMWare Horizon stack is up.
If HR and Management are going to keep telling me to build systems that scale for 60+ users and then populate the department with half that, while my budget is then crippled by leasing and licensing a system that is scaled and designed for 60+ then I would shift in a heartbeat if the right performance metrics are available.
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Gonna have to get some decommissioned server hardware if you wanna run the newest games and Windows locally
*cracks knuckles* knew this day was coming sometime
Edit: Just to add, I hate this too, but it makes too much sense for them to not do it (or do I mean to do it? lol) IMO from their/a business perspective
*cracks knuckles* knew this day was coming sometime
Edit: Just to add, I hate this too, but it makes too much sense for them to not do it (or do I mean to do it? lol) IMO from their/a business perspective
Why would they not love generation of kids growing up playing on windows PC and used to it when they enter school-workforce, Gaming PC sold with windows license on them, etc...
If it happen it will be because the tech is so good for it to make sense imo, lot of stuff will want low latency and be local compute, self driving car-augmented reality VR to video games, hybrid local-cloud solution are there for a long time I think.
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Know what exactly ?
Seem a risk, they could easily shift to game on a lower latency affair, like a Play station 11 if they make one
Sure, that was then. But these days I keep reading that Windows Defender is as good as any other security suite.
Interesting. As (retired) product manager, I don't remember ever seeing a slide like this one in any company I ever worked for.
When Steve Jobs rejoined Apple, it was a very "leaky" company. Jobs cracked down, hard, and the leaks stopped. And these days, Apple still doesn't leak corporate secrets very much. So my question is, where/when/how did you find this apparently confidential MS do? Date? Website?
Yeah, but you will also notice that they lack many of the other features like link scanning, email attachment filtering, and many active monitoring functions, which are the selling features now of Norton, Mcaffee, and the rest.
For the base minimum Defender is as good or better than the 3'rd parties, but for the more advanced stuff you have to go 3'rd party or dig through the O365 bundle features until you find the Enhanced security or the Endpoint protection stuff which they separated off.
Windows security has come a long way though and many of the selling features from AV suites from 10 years ago no longer apply to the same extent.
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You thinking of/what you know now as:
is them currently doing that with a device that runs the OS/SW and 'everything' locally
'The future' as we're imagining, will still be
but with a device runs everything remotely from a server
Kids nowadays barely know about folder/file structure. Computing, like all things, changes with time - doesn't always mean for better or for the worse, just that it changes
This is the same thing I try to tell the people who scream 'raster only and ever only raster' about graphics all the time
I am pretty sure it was from this presentation here.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/cloud-adoption-framework/strategy/motivations
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/w....mc_id=Portal-fx#clouddesktop-boottocloudmode
https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/windows-events/get-to-know-windows-365-boot/ev-p/3804217
And the website is very selective in what parts they published for a solid clickbait article.
Here is somebody demoing the O365 boot options
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It is in the article of the op:
https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/27/23775117/microsoft-windows-11-cloud-consumer-strategy
it was part of the FTC v microsoft hearing for Activision acquisition and in it they seem cloud gaming does not seem to catch up much outside a quick try the game before buying it for example and couple of interesting factoid came out of it.
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DukenukemX
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Nvidia, Google, and Sony have tried cloud gaming and that never took off, but they did try. The appeal is that you don't need to worry about losing data, because it's on the cloud. You don't need your computer, because any Windows computer is able to get access to everything. You don't need to worry about storage because the cloud has nearly infinite storage, so long as you pay for it. You don't need to worry about computational power because again the cloud has nearly limitless processing power, which again for the right monthly fee.
So the appeal is there, but this won't be aimed towards the poor. If gaming has taught me anything is that these type of systems always aim for the whales. The convenience factor is what Microsoft believes would drive people to Windows 11 on the cloud. Even if the service was free or cheap, the analytics would be financially amazing. We know Microsoft has been working on Xbox Cloud gaming for some time, so they will have a lot of the bases covered. Will it work? Will people buy cheap Windows 11 cloud terminal computers instead of a $1k+ laptop that still only has 1TB of storage? Probably not, but again that's not how Microsoft sees it. Right now most people who use Windows 11 probably made Microsoft no money, as the upgrade was free. Not counting the analytics Microsoft gets from Windows. If Microsoft can convince you to pay $15 or $25 per month to use Windows 11 cloud, that's a lot more money they'll be getting from the millions of Windows users. They might lose a lot of users to Apple or older Windows installations, but it doesn't matter if the money they make will increase. They still make money from OEM licenses, so that won't change.
You have a lot of faith that Microsoft will give you the option. Maybe at first, but as a Linux guy I'm willing to bet that most Windows Cloud machines won't give you the option to install Linux with Secure boot and TPM2.0. As someone who's installed Linux on ChromeBooks, I can tell you that dark future already exists. You can't install Linux on Chromebooks unless you flash a custom bios to get around that limitation.
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Good to know the specifics, it at least served to guide me to the official O365 Boot pages, and the white papers on what I will need to configure in Intune and AzureAD to enable it later if I want to go that route, which I am seriously considering. VMWare Enterprise subscriptions went up again and so did their support contracts. Accounting got a nice sticker shock when they realized how much their overprovisioning of the remote workers is actually costing and they are now asking me if I can repurpose the hardware, which I can't because there are only 3 of them, 2 are required for operation and 1 is the failover and quorum holder so there isn't enough to safely do anything with just one of them as it would have no redundancy so they are stuck with it.
Turns out they announced the Office 365 Boot 2 weeks ago.
They are making it available as a Device license to the Pro, Enterprise, and Education editions.
It requires Intune and AzureAD to backend it.
Not exactly something they are forcing on anybody.
Should they force it, I will be at the front of that mob flaming pitchfork in hand.
Linux is already available in the Azure hosting environment, if you wanted to do this with a Linux environment you could easily replicate it by setting up a TFTP PXE boot server in Azure and have that configured to launch a VNC application window to the hosted VM.
But a lot of those users, will they need a PC at all or something strong enough to run a browser enough.
All true with a browser from a simple tablet with a google office/drive account, no need to rent a full blown machine that stream a video feed back to you depending on the need, which I imagine that what windows will probably try to do (like they're current free office online via the browser offering)
Maybe that no money windows desktop user will simply no exist anymore, gamer on gaming machine, people that work on PC renting it and all the rest phone or equivalent running web app, which seem more likely to me than Azure running a VM for everyone in the same timezone and streaming all of them their current session at a good enough price they are willing to pay outside their work account
This is going to be a great idea, putting windows in the cloud. I'm hoping they'll go a step further and make it browser based just like they did with the office apps, because it's just new cool thing to do.
So I could load up windows to start edge and start windows in the browser. I can't wait.
So I could load up windows to start edge and start windows in the browser. I can't wait.
GoldenTiger
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I can't wait!!!!!
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And also even though I do see this coming, forced, it's not like I meant it's gonna be the only option for Windows 12 or anything. But by Windows 14 or 15? I dunno, maybe by then it is your only option.
Honestly, an iPad with a keyboard and a Google account is more than enough for most people, if you need to be slightly more professional then replace the Google account with an O365 subscription.
Chromebooks are the bare minimum but the Play Store options there are very limited at least an iPad you have options for some basic Adobe suite stuff.
GoldenTiger
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What's old (mainframes and terminals) is new again... I hope it never becomes the only option, but I'm also pretty sure someday it will (for windows, at least).
I mean in the consumer space Apple and Google are whooping their butts, Windows is no longer the default consumer OS, Microsoft has gone from charging for it to giving it away and begging consumers to use a Windows account and not their Google accounts.
Microsoft due to past legislation isn't allowed to do many of the things that Google, Amazon, and even Apple are allowed to get away with and when they were no longer the dominant market force they once were it was too late for them to start.
In business Microsoft is still king because of support and legacy options, but at home? you could pick people at random and maybe get a 50/50 on whether or not they own a Windows PC purchased in the last decade, Android and iOS are king for the residential consumer space now and Microsoft is acting accordingly.
ChromeOS and iOS have pushed them out of the educational market, so in School, kids aren't using Microsoft nearly to the degree they once were, Google and Apple managed to hit them with the "Hook them while their young" approach, and once they are a teenager still not Windows but Android or iOS which feeds into the Chromebook or MacOS when they need something beyond their simple tablet or phone. Microsoft is the peripheral choice for them and it shows, I mean have you seen kids type recently, it's scary sad, almost like they have never had to dish out an entire paragraph of raid instructions to a party in a 12-second window in a lul between pulls.
Microsoft needs to get itself positioned where it can offer its business solutions to customers who may have never used its products before, and they will need to work on hardware that doesn't necessarily have their OS installed.
Furthermore, with work-from-home taking over they rightly should be looking for an easier approach to providing services and securing data for workspaces that are no longer constrained to a single location or even country.
Have a new employee starting for you but they live 2 state's over, Not a problem you can send them a dummy laptop with no internal storage configured for O365 boot to a pre-configured OS that can be centrally managed from a master image with USB sharing turned off so they can't remove data from the environment. The cost of such a device is cheap so if they quit your potential losses on the hardware are minimized, and if you need to fire them you can disable their access remotely with a single button click so there is no potential for malicious retaliatory activity on their part.
Honestly, it's a smart play by Microsoft on this one, as long as it stays as a business use case thing, I can't imagine this being good as a consumer-level thing not at all. For so many reasons the least of all being the "Hello I am calling from Microsoft we need to talk about Virus activity on your PC" potentials.
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Story of my life.... Maybe that's why pugs never chat anymore?
Thankfully I haven't seen a kid typing any time in the last decade+, so I have yet to shed the tears. Do they not teach typing anymore?
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Please, again, as much as I'd hate it - everything would be locked down from Microsoft's end. They know the exes/programs used by these people, and wouldn't allow it into the DC. They start walking you through disabling security? These set of actions just triggered an alarm because of them monitoring user sessions/actions vs what they know the bad guys have you do. There's a small degree of cat and mouse, but by and large those Windows Virus Indian scam farms are fucked if this is the case. But don't worry they'll just turn into a different type of Indian scam farm.
DukenukemX
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While I listed all the benefits that Microsoft will clearly market, but there are downsides to this as well.
- There's the need to have an internet connection, which is still a problem today. If it's not the spotty reliability of ISP's, it's the data caps that'll get you. Not to mention if there's a lot of concurrent use of said connection that might bottleneck the speed.
- Your data is no longer private. What Windows 10/11 does now is bad, but it'll be nothing compared to what Windows Cloud will collect. Apple for example said they'll watch your data to make sure they don't find child porn. Speaking of which.
- They can block you. Amazon and Apple has shown that they can take away their services if they find you doing something inappropriate. This man lost his Amazon smart home feature after someone thought his doorbell said a bad word.
- You're paying a monthly fee. Monthly fees aren't popular which is why Netflix is trying to prevent sharing. It's always cheaper to buy than to paying a reoccurring fee.
- It won't perform as fast as real hardware. As much as people wanna believe that the cloud has unlimited process power, it really doesn't. If the service were to get popular, the amount of processing power will get throttled.
We see with Microsoft that Secure Boot and TPM were optional, until they weren't. These have been around for a while, but Microsoft enforced these even working against the rate of adoption for Windows 11. This can and will be unpopular, but if it makes Microsoft bank then they don't care and they're willing to disrupt their own Windows market for it. This is also why Valve is probably pushing for Linux.
They offer the classes, but they are not mandatory, so very few choose to take them and often do not complete them with a passing grade as they treat the class like a joke.Story of my life.... Maybe that's why pugs never chat anymore?
Thankfully I haven't seen a kid typing any time in the last decade+, so I have yet to shed the tears. Do they not teach typing anymore?
They would find a different angle to work, be it a scary popup saying they missed a payment and all their data will be deleted if they don't correct their account or a really official-looking warning message saying that antivirus activity on their machine has forced them to lock down blah blah blah call this 1800 number below.
Are punch cards or floppy disks going to make a comeback?
That would be a great way for the scammers to make bank, and then make bank again and again and again.
They already make something like $2B USD a year from their fake Microsoft calls, who knows they might be able to push that to 3.
GoldenTiger
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Zarathustra[H]
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Linux, yes. Ubuntu, no.
Ubuntu are every bit as big control freaks trying to take over the world as Microsoft is.
It's been one thing after another with Ubuntu. Building in advertising in the terminal, sending advertising data to Amazon straight from the desktop, trying to control the entire *nix world by pushing Mir, and now the latest effort to try to push snaps, which is controlled by Ubuntu.
If you want the original Ubuntu Gnome2-like experience I'd go with Mint (Either Cinnamon or Mate editions) instead. It is based on Ubuntu, but rips out all of the bad stuff they can, and tries to maintain a classic desktop. Cinnamon for a modern from scratch development. (looks a little cleaner) Mate for a fork of the old Gnome desktop. (Has a little more of the old school functionality)
Zarathustra[H]
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This is an "over my dead body" proposition.
My PC is my local machine and my local machine only. It may connect to the outside world, but it should never try to integrate with it.
I view my LAN as a separate entity from the rest of the internet, not just a gateway to the internet. Most of my network traffic is local only between my machines and servers.
I don't want anything that connects to or syncs with a cloud service of any kind, unless that remote server is entirely and universally under my strict control.
If Microsoft try to push this on me I will abandon their products. If they use some market bullshit to try to force people into this future world they envision I will literally go postal.
This is my red line. Absolutely nothing is off the table when it comes to fighting it. Any means necessary means any means.
If you don't keep your hands off my computer I will find you and make sure your hands can never touch another computer.
I lack a special set of skills, but I am very determined and quite resourceful, and if I have to I will die for my freedom.
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Didn't know that. Thanks!
If they want to take Linux to the mainstream then this is the reality of it, otherwise Linux is going to fall to 4’th place behind Chrome by more than they are comfortable with.