L33t Masta
Gawd
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Numbers do the talking and more people use Windows than Linux. They must be doing something right.
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Microsoft Expected to Post Sharp Profit Rise
- Thread starter HardOCP News
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Numbers do the talking and more people use Windows than Linux. They must be doing something right.
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Wrong, just because you can't tell DDR2 from IEEE1394 doesn't mean you can't write a Bash script.
Your little rant here has absolutely nothing to do with the viabiliy of an OS in general. You attacked Linux by calling it an inferior product. "Everyone uses Windows" (which by the way is not true) is not anywhere near a valid point to support your claim. Then you throw in tha Linux has no professional applications? I suppose IBM's whole line of business software designed to specifically run on Linux isn't professioanl enough
Well, what about Novell's line? Not good enough? Then I guess Sun doesn't count either.I said AT LEAST baseline. Most hardware works with completel functionallity under Linux. Let's see the companies of common hardware that provide drivers for their products:
ATI, AMD, Intel, Realtek, Nvidia, Lexmark ... oh forget it I could go on forever.
As far as DX10 is concern. I'm sorry, but you don't enjoy having full DX10 compatibility simply because NOT A SINGLE GAME fully takes advantage of DX10's features yet. You're enjoying a recoded DX9 experience.
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Successful business strategy does not equate to a superior product.
That may be, but why would "free" need a strategy? Funny how Microsoft can sell for hundreds when *nix can't give their stuff away worth noticing.
Business strategy is not the only thing Microsoft has going for them. If I had to guess, user-friendliness and compatibility are the number one things Microsoft have going for them.
farfromhome
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Ah, but that's where you're wrong. Windows is free, at least in terms of how the general consumer thinks. So it's not free vs costing money, it's free (but have to install) vs free (and already pre-installed). Not a fair fight, and that's exactly how MS intends to keep it.
I can grant you user-friendliness to some degree, though with how most non-techies use their computers, I doubt they'd be able to tell much difference between Ubuntu/OpenOffice/Firefox and Windows/MSOffice/IE. In fact, OpenOffice is probably closer in interface to MS Office 2003 than MS Office 2007 is.
Mostly though, people use it because people use it, and it's hard not to get it. Network effects at their finest. If people grew up with KDE or GNOME, I guarantee they'd find it easier to use than Windows. If another OS was dominant, I guarantee that game developers would abandon Windows like a hot-potato and develop games for whoever was, as would specialty business applications. Right place, right time, good business strategy, and now entrenchment is all it is. MS makes good products, but so do lots of others, and that has nothing to do with why they are successful.
Being entrenched from being one of the first to market for a consumer OS that worked on many different types of hardware probably has more to do with the numbers of users than anything else.
The main point of that statement is the "worked on many different types of hardware" phrase. If my memory serves me correctly, Apple practically had the PC market cornered at one time. When the era of IBM clones came about, MS software worked on all those systems while Apple's OS only worked on their hardware. This is the reason MS was able to grow to the size it is now with the install base it has.
There was no practical competition in the early years and software developers wrote software to work with MS's OS. Over time MS had a virtual monopoly in the consumer OS space in the x86 arena. When you have that type of inertia, it's difficult to stop or derail the machine.
I'm not calling MS shitty (although they have had some software I thought was horrible). I'm not even calling MS's business practices shitty. Obviously, MS has made some great business decisions when opportunities arose but that does not mean MS has the best product.
L33t Masta
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Windows is not free. it's calculated into the cost of a machine. Sure I pirated XP Pro but I actually BOUGHT Vista. And all KDE ang GNOME do is copy the Windows GUI. Linux has nothing. No one will develop for it, no one supports hardware for it. No one in their right mind would market it as a workplace operating system. All around it has nothing. That's why Windows is on top because they offer a superiour product when everything else is shit. SO YOUR LINUX IS FREE! OH YAY! Then why do only 1% of people with a desktop use it? Because Windows is better. I'm sure if Linux was better the word would catch on and then people would be buying desktop PCs with Linux on them left right and center. BUT THEY DON'T BECAUSE IT ISN'T! And if you don't know what hardware is, you don't need Linux. Software and hardware go hand in hand. If you know one you have to know the other. The good ling about Linux is it runs on the slowest of computers, which is where it stays.
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Did you bother reading the articles?
Wrong... KDE and Gnome have features that Windows to this day STILL lacks
Wrong.
Wrong again.
Remember my incompleted list I post earlier. Lets see it again shall we?
Intel -- Check
AMD -- Check
ATI -- Check
Nvidia -- Check
Realtek -- Check
Via -- Check
HP -- Check
Canon -- Check
Lexmark -- Check
and the list goes on.
Redhat, Novell, and Ubuntu all have enterprise versions marketed to business. They include full support, software validation, and 18-month stable product cycles.
Wrong again
Wrong again, you don't need to study econmic theory to understand that if your product is in place long before any viable competitors products are, then you will become entrenched in the market place. It's damn near impossible to overturn a company with 95% market share. It doesn't matter if they have the shittiest product in the world, their momentum would take forever to slow down and turn the tide. Take your beloved Zune for example, you yourself said it was a much better product than even the iPod, SO tell me if being superior is all it takes, then why is the iPod the number one seller?
Wrong... I already pointed out that you don't have to know what hardware is be able to set up a linux box.
Correct to the extent that software needs hardware to run on, and hardware needs software to actually do something, but...
.. you go off nd say this. How do Windows users get away with not knowing hardware while knowing how to use the software, but Linux users can't?
Yeah try running this site on the slowest of hardware.
farfromhome
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I know that and you know that, but the general public, even the ones who know, tend not to think of it that way. And even of the ones who do, tend to notice how few options there are when buying pre-built computers without Windows. The ones who build computers from scratch are in the vast minority.
The WIMP (Windows-Icon-Menus-Pointer) paradigm was not invented by Microsoft, nor even by Apple. It was invented by Xerox PARC many years ago, and has not changed all that much since then. In the few ways it has changed, everybody has copied everybody. MS copied Apple, Apple copied MS, KDE/GNOME copied both, and both Apple and MS have copied some principles from X-Windows. Nobody's a big innovator there.
The claim that nobody develops for it has already been thoroughly debunked by previous posters. IBM, SUN, Novell, and Oracle are not exactly small names in the industry, for example. Not to mention that a huge portion of the Internet runs on *NIX.
As for hardware, more hardware is supported by Linux than by Windows! Not necessarily by the hardware manufacturers themselves, but it doesn't matter where the support comes from as long as it works. And some hardware manufacturers indeed support Linux. Both NVIDIA and AMD provide their latest drivers for Linux, HP has wonderful support for their printers, Ralink and Atheros have helped the open-source community develop drivers for their wireless cards, and so on. In fact, the Creative X-Fi and Lexmark printers are the only examples I can think of of popular hardware that is not supported in Linux.
I'm not even going to respond to the rest of your post, which was just a pointless and incorrect rant.
Actually, Windows is practically free on OEM systems. I haven't personally gone to look at this but others have pointed out that when you do find an option for no OS on an OEM system the bottom line price is usually about the same. I believe some people have pointed out that not having an OS preinstalled will actually cost more. This is mainly because of all the crapware and trial junk installed on OEM systems. OEMs are paid to put that crap on as many systems as they can. If there is no OS installed on the system, they can't install it which means they price the hardware higher.
Basically, bloatware on OEM systems subsidizes the price of the OS. Plus, OEMs like Dell don't pay nearly as much for an OS license as your regular Joe because of volume sales.
MS loves this model because it keeps their OS bundled with these systems. It's basically a vicious cycle that keeps MS rolling in money and keeps the cost of budget systems down for OEMs.
Also, when you've been exposed to one product for most of your computing life (Windows) most people have a tendency to stick with newer iterations of that product because it's "familiar" to them. That doesn't make the product better or easier to use. It just means someone is familiar with the way that product works since it's what they have used the most.
This is just an observation based on previous experience, but I don't think somebody who resorts to calling people "fags" and variations thereof is going to take well to a challenge of opinion based on logic and reason. I have half a mind to think this guy is just a plant to try to entrap people into responding in kind.
L33t Masta
Gawd
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It's obvious he can't come up with an actual argument. However, I continue on for two reasons. The first is because a lot of other people will be reading this thread since it's a link from a front page posting and I don't care for people being fed misinformation. Secondly, I just love to tear the "argument" apart with logic and reasoning just to make the person look stupid. I have no desire to flame anyone but I do love making people look stupid and then watch their reactions to it when they realize how stupid they look. The fag comment was the reaction I was looking for actually. I know I've gotten under their skin at that point which gives me great satisfaction.
L33t Masta
Gawd
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It's obvious he can't come up with an actual argument. However, I continue on for two reasons. The first is because a lot of other people will be reading this thread since it's a link from a front page posting and I don't care for people being fed misinformation. Secondly, I just love to tear the "argument" apart with logic and reasoning just to make the person look stupid. I have no desire to flame anyone but I do love making people look stupid and then watch their reactions to it when they realize how stupid they look. The fag comment was the reaction I was looking for actually. I know I've gotten under their skin at that point which gives me great satisfaction.
Blarg. And you complain about misinformation? Ever been to /b/? we call ever group a <main word>fag. Furfags are furries, tripfags are people who use tripcodes, newfags are people who are new, namefags are people who post with a name, linuxfags are people who use linux. It's a way of our culture, not an insult.
Really, from the way you talk you sound just like a troll. And I know that anyone with common sense uninstalls the bundled pieces of software as soon as they get home. When I got this laptop that's the first thing I did. An OS is not free as you will see on the Dell.com website when you customize a PC. DirectX 10 is not available in linux thus it's useless to have up to date hardware for a linux box. Windows has far better features like memory caching, speedboost, readyboost, it's compatible with all the hardware out there right out of the box. Logitech especially has a habit of supporting WINDOWS but not Linux, funny how that is. My Turtle Beach AK-R8s don't support linux either and the only way to get 5.1 surround on them is with their software. HMMMM. And all the software is made for Windows/Mac (server software not included). All games list compatibility with Windows but not Linux. Wow. What a surprise! And in windows you don't have to type an essay in command only to find out it's wrong and fails to install your drivers! A double click in windows is all I need. And while your getting your windows emulation up and configging WINE to properly use the game (with crashes likely) I'll have software and games working flawlessly. Plus, again, if something was better don't you think more people would be using it?- Joined
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Explain the Zune's market share. You say it better than the iPod. Yet it's been out over a year now and the iPod still outsells it. Market penetration will trump superior product every single time.
L33t Masta
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Apple has a better marketplace for buying music. Hence why it's winning over the Zune. That and kids these days only care about being trendy. That's why the macbook air was made...
Oh, I know they were GUI shells for MSDOS, but for all practical purposes the average user to that OS didn't know and didn't care. It is what they see in front of them that is important, not what is transparently happening in the background.
I will not bash Windows 95 because it was for the most part revolutionary in regards to MS's previous OSes. Instead of being the glorified GUI menu program Windows 3.1 was, Windows 95 was actually a complete operating system. It offered much more than any previous version of Windows. I won't say it was actually easier to use than 3.1, but it was much more powerful.[/quote]
Actually it was easier to use and because it was a full fledged OS that offered something called Plug and Play, a completely revamped interface, new ways of getting things done without slugging through endless windows and even the desktop was appreciated by the masses. That's what counts and that was a major metric that pushed Microsoft into the mainstream. I mean, name me any OS that people lined up for around the blocks like a Star Wars movie aside from Windows 95. It was unprecedented and still is.
That doesn't matter since the economy of the time supported people shelling out the money for that kind of hardware. Believe me, I know what I spend on PC's back then and it was disgusting. But millions of people still bought PC's over Macs and millions more in cubicles world wide used Windows because windows made computing easier. Adoption is what mattered otherwise Apple would have been it this position, but they weren't because they are a closed proprietary hardware company, not a software company like Microsoft is. That's a huge difference in terms of distinction.
Doesn't matter. As a current owner of Apple products as well as PC product (I still have my Apple ][ btw) I can tell you Apple had it's chance and they blew it. There were Apple clones out there like the Orange and others, but Apple even back then was a vigorous litigator against having their hardware open up to the masses and this killed them in terms of market share and acceptance overall. So instead they marketed to an upscale demographic that is primarily geared to the DTP and A/V side of computing. And they are losing that share as well. Apple has such a limited share in the overall computing market that they have decided to get away from desktop computing altogether and Jobs presenting that rinky dink slimline is proof of it. They want to sell you miniaturized mp3/video gear. That is their bread and butter now.
Microsoft is still a software company with a splash of hardware thrown in, but comparing the two is Apples to oranges.
Not sure why. They certainly deserve it considering what they have done and where they are in the market.
That is a pretty silly statement considering that if you look at Apples closed system would you be calling what they do worthless or their software worthless? The two are mutually exclusive. If you have software, but yet nary a hardware platform to use it on, then it would make sense to either make your own hardware platform or tailor the software to a more open platform. That is what Microsoft did. Apple did not. Your sentence is basically a nonsequitor at this point.
And look at the state of PC hardware today. You have so much variation, capacity, and raw horsepower in almost any configuration you can think of because of it, that it makes your above statement a foregone conclusion. I think the obvious stands for itself, so I won't argue it.
No one is asking you too, however you have to give credit where it is due, by not doing so you just put your head in the sand. At least the shareholders would find your words to not be accurate in either case.
[/QUOTE]farfromhome
Gawd
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I did what you said. An identically sped'ed Inspiron 530 (with Vista) and Inspiron 530N (with Ubuntu) both cost $499 (after $100 instant savings). With the E4500 Inspiron 530 model, there is a mere $50 difference between the Vista version and the FreeDOS version...easily explained by the presence of MS Works in the Vista version. You just disproved your own point.
WINE will get it eventually. In the meantime, DX10-capable graphics cards happen to also be the fastest in DX9 and OpenGL. Gaming really is the main weak point of Linux now, but that is the exception.
You really buy all the hype and the buzzwords? Most articles I've read about it have shown ReadyBoost to be a useless gimmick. You really think that a USB flash drive can even come close to the performance of RAM?
As for memory caching, that's been around for ages. XP minimized the amount in the cache to make it appear that less memory was being used. Vista now uses memory more intelligently and pre-caches frequently-used stuff. The Linux kernel has done that long before Windows has (very easy to verify in the GNOME System Monitor or KSystemGuard), it just hasn't created a buzzword to go along with it.
My Logitech MX510 works perfectly in Linux, as does pretty much every mouse in existence. Since when do you need a special driver for a keyboard or a mouse, even in Windows? There are other ways in Linux to assign "multimedia keys" and extra mouse buttons without needing special manufacturer support. (As an irony, my MX510 isn't "supported" by Logitech in Vista, in that Mouseware was never ported to it, and it's too old a mouse for SetPoint. Still works just fine for me though.)
Interesting that you put Mac there. Apple has far less software made for it than Linux at this point. In part because of Apple's tendency to change the API every minor version, and when something is successful, make its own version or buy it out (remember ClarisWorks and CodeWarrior?). Adobe and ironically Microsoft are probably the last large-corporation ISV's for the Mac. And a lot of the open-source software available for the Mac is...ported from Linux.
Anyway, there is tons of software made for Linux (not just server). I'm not going to dredge it up for the 10th time in this thread. It may not always be the exact same things you're familiar with on Windows, but neither is Mac software yet people still like Macs.
Obviously somebody who who has not heard of ID Software, whose games all have native Linux clients. Anyway, it's obvious why you keep harping on games, as it is Linux's main weak point right now. News flash: not everybody is a gamer, and lots of people that are play on consoles.
You don't have to in Linux either, as in modern distros everything is configured by default when setting it up. You should never have to install an open-source driver in Linux (99% of them). Ubuntu, Mandriva, openSUSE, etc... all have nice graphical interfaces for setting up the few remaining proprietary drivers needed (mostly graphics and wireless), so no command-line there either. Seriously, have you tried Linux since 1999?
Repeating it 100 times won't change anything.
SmokeRings said:
SmokeRings said:
ryan975 said:
farfromhome said:
And now back to your points...
And why do you think that is? Perhaps because it has the overwhelming market share... Just like your rant about Windows having more games (for instance). You're confusing effect with cause. Read up about network effects then come back to me.
L33t Masta
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I did what you said. An identically sped'ed Inspiron 530 (with Vista) and Inspiron 530N (with Ubuntu) both cost $499 (after $100 instant savings). With the E4500 Inspiron 530 model, there is a mere $50 difference between the Vista version and the FreeDOS version...easily explained by the presence of MS Works in the Vista version. You just disproved your own point.
WINE will get it eventually. In the meantime, DX10-capable graphics cards happen to also be the fastest in DX9 and OpenGL. Gaming really is the main weak point of Linux now, but that is the exception.
You really buy all the hype and the buzzwords? Most articles I've read about it have shown ReadyBoost to be a useless gimmick. You really think that a USB flash drive can even come close to the performance of RAM?
As for memory caching, that's been around for ages. XP minimized the amount in the cache to make it appear that less memory was being used. Vista now uses memory more intelligently and pre-caches frequently-used stuff. The Linux kernel has done that long before Windows has (very easy to verify in the GNOME System Monitor or KSystemGuard), it just hasn't created a buzzword to go along with it.
My Logitech MX510 works perfectly in Linux, as does pretty much every mouse in existence. Since when do you need a special driver for a keyboard or a mouse, even in Windows? There are other ways in Linux to assign "multimedia keys" and extra mouse buttons without needing special manufacturer support. (As an irony, my MX510 isn't "supported" by Logitech in Vista, in that Mouseware was never ported to it, and it's too old a mouse for SetPoint. Still works just fine for me though.)
Interesting that you put Mac there. Apple has far less software made for it than Linux at this point. In part because of Apple's tendency to change the API every minor version, and when something is successful, make its own version or buy it out (remember ClarisWorks and CodeWarrior?). Adobe and ironically Microsoft are probably the last large-corporation ISV's for the Mac. And a lot of the open-source software available for the Mac is...ported from Linux.
Anyway, there is tons of software made for Linux (not just server). I'm not going to dredge it up for the 10th time in this thread. It may not always be the exact same things you're familiar with on Windows, but neither is Mac software yet people still like Macs.
Obviously somebody who who has not heard of ID Software, whose games all have native Linux clients. Anyway, it's obvious why you keep harping on games, as it is Linux's main weak point right now. News flash: not everybody is a gamer, and lots of people that are play on consoles.
You don't have to in Linux either, as in modern distros everything is configured by default when setting it up. You should never have to install an open-source driver in Linux (99% of them). Ubuntu, Mandriva, openSUSE, etc... all have nice graphical interfaces for setting up the few remaining proprietary drivers needed (mostly graphics and wireless), so no command-line there either. Seriously, have you tried Linux since 1999?
Repeating it 100 times won't change anything.
And now back to your points...
And why do you think that is? Perhaps because it has the overwhelming market share... Just like your rant about Windows having more games (for instance). You're confusing effect with cause. Read up about network effects then come back to me.
I don't feel like splitting up your gigantic post because I'm in bed and far too lazy. You said there was a price difference thus the OS is factored into the cost just like the MS Works software. You actually just disproved yourself.
WINE will never get DX10. That as stupid as saying XP will get DirectX10. It's not going to happen. The sheer amount of back-end having to be changed to accommodate DX10 prompted Microsoft to make it Vista only because an XP port was far too much work.
Yes I buy all the hype and buzzwords. And what the flash does is it's used for the PAGEFILE to offset it from the HDD. Less grinding and far more efficient. I have 2x 2GB flash drives plugged into my PC for this purpose. Memory caching hasn't been around for ages. At least not how Vista is doing it. Actual program and files that are accessed most often are saved into the RAM to be released later when either a program needs more ram or that program is being used.
The point is not getting the device to work but to have all the advanced features that go along with it. Like my G15 LCD would not work in Linux nor would my DPI-on-the-FLY function for my G5.
Apple actually has more because of photoshop, premier and all those nice progress that are used for film and sound editing. Linux has no professional applications. And by professional I mean MADE BY A REAL STUDIO THAT YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR. Open-Source software is crap and you know it.
ID Games?
HOLY FUCKING SHIT LINUX HAS 5 GAMES THAT RUN ON IT! SOMEONE ALERT THE FUCKING NEWSPAPERS!
Just don't forget to mention that Windows has far more than that
And honestly if you aren't going to get support from the largest growing industry then it's no wonder no one uses Linux other than those 3 guys. Nope. Never tried Linux. Closest thing to it in my house is my router with DD-WRT firmware. Sure they all work but if you want your system to load up in less than 110 min you have to customize the kernel to load only what you need. I have a friend who uses Slackware and really it's a pain in the ass.
I'll repeat it until you figure out it's true. If Linux was so fucking special AND REVOLUTIONARY everyone would be using it. But they aren't. Hardware is for Windows. Games are for Windows. Programs are for Windows. PEOPLE CHOOSE WINDOWS. Fuck marketing strategy and all that "used it for so long" bullshit. If there was ANYTHING better people would be switching so fast it would make you sick. But they aren't because Microsoft offers the best selection of programs and the best compatibility with hardware and it's easy to use and has a great GUI (especially Vista) and really is what computer enthusiasts enjoy.
And as the news article posted recently says their sales are slowing down and more people are buying other things. But that hasn't been the case of the Windows OS in more than a decade. So live with it. Linux is a pile of trash.
l33t Masta said:
Look, I like XP and Office is good, too, but you need to understand some things about Microsoft. It is not cool to be so rich that you can release a console a year early and conceal its known defect rate, secure a userbase and steal away developers from the competition, and then pay BILLIONS for extended warranties like its chump change, knowing that anyone who bought your system is going to be too stupidly loyal or lazy to revolt after already buying it. It is not cool then for the competition to then be scolded for choosing higher priced heatsinks and disc drives, forcing them to do the same if they have any hope of competing next time around, lowering the bar for the entire industry.
It's also not cool to have such a stranglehold on the market that you can release a new version of your word processor every two years, or force gamers to upgrade their OS again by making DX10 exclusive to Vista with a few needless complexity quirks. THAT is the bad part about having a monopoly and a stupid consumer like yourself who fails to call them on it.
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No, The costs were exactly the same. $499 for windows, $499 for free OS. Windows IS FREE FOR THE CONSUMER. MS still gets paid though since the cost is offset by all the bloatware that comes pre-install on virtually all pre-builts. By the way, do you think Dell pays $89 for that copy of Vista Home Basic like we do? Think again.
WINE is not Windows, not does it emulate it. It uses the exact same dll's that a Windows install uses. Why you do think its cabalilites are increased when its linked to a Windows system32 folder? The only thing WINE has to do on its own is kernel functions. It would easier to "port" DX10 to WINE than it would be for XP simply because of how it works.
You're putting the chicken before the egg here. It was decided before the first line of code was typed that DX10 would be a Vista only feature. They could have just as easily made it backwards compatible just like they did DX9 and Win98.
Then you are being foolish.
Yeah, because we all know a 50MB/sec transfer rate is so much more effficient than a 6,400MB/s one. Simple fact is that Readybost is a gimmick. It's almost better than hdd access simply because there's nearly no access latency, but for the same money you could add more RAM and have 10 times the boost.
Yes it has. Linux did this exact same thing last century. They just weren't clever marketing nuts that decided to give it a flashy name. They just called it a disk cache.
Funny, my G5 works just fine in Ubuntu. I can change the DPI settings as well since that's not dependant on software. I don't have a G15 so I can't comment on that, nor would I waste the money on something like a useless keyboard bound LCD that would be better suited on my display.
Umm, what? All that software is availble for Windows as well, so Apple has nothing special.
Paying money for something automatically makes it better? Talent, skill, and clean coding have nothing to do with it? Sorry, but GIMP nearly rivals Photoshop, OpenOffice.org surpasses MS Office (well 2007 is a giant leap forward), ... and that's just off the top of my head.
Look, I understand that games are important to you. And as a 15 year old you have nothing else to occupy your time. But by far, PC gamers are the minority compared to businesses and professionals that use PC's to make a living. And Windows is not the only OS that caters to that 80% of the PC users.
Just don't forget to mention that Windows has far more than that
I'm sorry, what?
Like I said, talking about things you have no clue about.
Slackware has always been a pain in the ass. That's just one distribution and doesn't define Linux as a whole. Ubuntu loads in just over 45 seconds for my system, compared to a fresh install of Vista Ultimate 64 which well over a minute before I can use it comfortably.
Because they get Windows already preinstalled at no cost. Why bother changing it a learning something new when what you have works out of the box?
Wrong, Windows is for hardware.
Well, duh. That's just good business sense to cater to 94% of the market and not spend more than you would gain to include another 3%
Wrong.
Only because it's been on nearly every desktop computer system that rolled off an assembly line since 1991. Again, why change something when you already have something that works. Doesn't mean it's superior or that it was chosen.
I know you'll never understand this, that if market and strategy weren't so important, then why do business spend trillions a year paying people to think of slogans, buy advertising spots in newspapers or magazines and on TV? If marketing wasn't so important to the succes of a product then why are Google and Yahoo! so successful? It's not because of their free serivces.
No they wouldn't, people are dumb and use what everyone else uses. You said that yourself about the iPod. Windows is trendy. That's not to say it's useless or inferior, mind you.
No argument there, except to say that there are plenty of enthusiasts that enjoy Fedora, or Ubuntu just as much as others enjoy Windows.
And I guess we're supposed to believe everything in the news then? When Windows comes on every single computer rolling off the assembly line, then it's hard not see why Windows sales are up. Dell sells millions of PC's a year, As does HP and Gateway. People actually BUYING Windows by itself is nearly nothing comparatively.
Another oppinion based on no knowledge or expereince with Linux.
farfromhome
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Way to spin and backtrack.
So Ubuntu costs $50 just like Windows then? Cause the Ubuntu computer came out to the same amount of money as the Vista computer. It was only the FreeDOS that came out $50 cheaper. Even the FreeDOS case it proves that Windows is subsidized. Good luck getting Vista for $50 in the store!Just like WINE will never get DX9 or the ability to run MS Office. Oh, wait. Next...
You must have a terrible hard drive if you can actually tell the difference. The hard drive "grinding" noise is minimal if you get a good hard drive (Western Digitals seem more quiet than Seagates these days IMHO), and it has been shown again and again that there is no performance gain when using ReadyBoost. If you want to fall prey to the hype, by all means, but it's not something I would brag about.
All that you mentioned would work. See the G15 Tools project. And the DPI-on-the-Fly is handled in hardware with the G5, so it will work in any OS.
If open-source is such crap, then why are Intel, IBM, Sun, Novell, etc... all investing in it? Apache runs half the Internet. Firefox may not be the most popular browser (again, due to network effects), but it leads and IE follows in terms of features and expandability. Pidgin (and its Mac cousin Adium) has long since eclipsed the other IM clients. CDex is by far the best CD ripper. Even on Windows, I use mostly open-source software even though I can afford proprietary software, because it's simply the best.
That said, there is a place for some proprietary professional applications. And Linux has them too, whether you want to acknowledge it or not. So you want to talk multimedia? How about the fact that pretty much all computerized effects in the film industry is done on Linux? Pixar has used Linux since 2003 to render all their feature films. I'm too lazy to look up all the other proprietary applications available on Linux, but here are a few. That said, for most tasks, open-source equals if not betters proprietary applications.
There are some others too, but they tend to be more casual games. Still, just because you're too lazy to run WINE to run lots of other games doesn't mean that you can't.
Just don't forget to mention that Windows has far more than that
PC Games are the largest growing industry!?!?! Now you should really stop the presses. I hate to drag you out from your fantasy world, but business software (where Linux is going strong) is a far, far larger industry than games, and will remain so for the forseeable future. And that's coming from a fan of PC games. PC games aren't dead, but they're not even growing at the rate of console games, much less PC non-gaming software.So you don't even speak from experience. How surprising.
Slackware can be a pain, I agree. It is the oldest surviving distribution after all, from the days when you dual-booted with MS-DOS instead of Windows and user-friendliness wasn't even on the radar. Ubuntu, openSUSE, Mandriva, et al are far more user-friendly.All that shows is that you have no understanding how economics and human nature work. If an OS from heaven descended down to Earth and was perfect in every conceivable way and free to boot, it would still take years and years (I'd estimate at least 10) for it to displace Windows by any conceivable degree. And that's without shady business practices from MS.
BTW, of course Linux isn't revolutionary, it's evolutionary. It it were truly revolutionary, even fewer people would be interested. It's human nature to be resistant to change.
Nemesis999
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Stop responding to that idiot. He's obviously a troll, stop feeding it.
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How does that thread dispute what I said? Nearly every computer that roll off an assembly since 1991 has had some version of Windows on it, be it Windows 3.0 or Windows Vista.
lol you said competitor...
TechieSooner
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That's the biggest misconception around... is that the Mac competes with Windows.
FoxhoundOp
[H]ard|Gawd
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We buy Dell PCs all the time here at work, and we get them without operating systems. This isn't through our OEM side of things, either. It is NOT hard to get a machine from Dell that has CentOS, FreeDOS or no operating system at all.
You are talking out of your ass on this one.
HardOCP News
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OK, the long-winded-massively-quoted posts can stop...actual numbers were posted today...please post your massively-long-winded-multiple-quoted post over there
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1266811
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1266811
farfromhome
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Business is a little different. It's not hard (recently) getting a Dell without Windows, but you're very limited in your hardware configurations. I think HP might have some option like that too with some small subset of their consumer computers. I am not aware of any other large OEM's offering that though. (Boutique OEM's are another story, and there are some that specifically cater to Linux, but they tend to be more expensive and not nearly as well-known to the Average Joe and Jane as they can't afford a massive advertising budget.)
farfromhome
Gawd
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If it wasn't clear, I was talking about specifically consumer desktops in my last post. As I said, business computers are another story.
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We buy Dell PCs all the time here at work, and we get them without operating systems. This isn't through our OEM side of things, either. It is NOT hard to get a machine from Dell that has CentOS, FreeDOS or no operating system at all.
You are talking out of your ass on this one.
No ass-talking from me. I included Dell in my list of companies that DOES offer systems without Windows from time to time. Over the past five or so years, when I look at what they have available (which I do often just to see if building is worth it over buying) sometimes the optio iss availible; sometimes it's not though.
TechieSooner
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So big that even Apple themselves have fallen victim to it
LOL, Apple would be dead and buried if they were truly in competition with Windows. I guess they just like to make it SEEM like they can compete with the big boy known as Windows- the market just wouldn't have it.
Forward guidance is the key. Microsoft beat expectations by 9% and goes up, Apple beats it by 30% with a record Q1 and gets clobbered. The reason is forward Q2 guidance. Microsoft deals mainly with business and as a result isn't seasonal. Apple's business is consumer oriented and very seasonal, and since Q2 is their slowest the stock price will go down to reflect that, happens every year.
This is great news for MSFT investors either way as 2006 was brutal for the stock with the Vista delay. I myself played the Summer 2006 dip, buying at $22 and selling at $28, but anyone holding long got creamed. If it wasn't for this ridiculous market right now MSFT would probably be trading closer to where it was in November. I can't wait until this is over and everyone can get back to making money again without the ridiculous volatility we've had since August.
This is great news for MSFT investors either way as 2006 was brutal for the stock with the Vista delay. I myself played the Summer 2006 dip, buying at $22 and selling at $28, but anyone holding long got creamed. If it wasn't for this ridiculous market right now MSFT would probably be trading closer to where it was in November. I can't wait until this is over and everyone can get back to making money again without the ridiculous volatility we've had since August.
yeah eeyrjmr Microsoft's holding a gun to your head forcing you to buy their product
Amusing to say the least when you all claim Linux and OSX can do everything Windows can. But better.
You should be fired from the IT department for withholding Vista CD from your company in favor of XP due to personal crusade against Microsoft.
fyi I am a power-engineer and have jack shit todo with IT in my company (except sorting out the crap that they do and also setting up some linux boxes since they are more stable... against their orders)
Vista is held back sicne it is corporate policy not to roll out VIsta.. it has issues FACT!!!
issues with Xilinx stuff
Issues with Actels stuff
Issues with Matlab stuff
Issues with Cadence stuff
Only the CORE apps my business need
FFS I just spent 2days in spain for meetings and IE7 just would not display the HTML (well expanded tree) report for FPGA/VHDL structure that Actels symlify generates, took FF to show it
Linux does everything I need it todo, but companies are unwilling to put on desktop atm (more uptake in servers tho)
TechieSooner
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Simple matter of fact is Linux (or anything else) doesn't have near the support for applications that Windows does. PERIOD.
All of our propriety business applications (all businesses have at LEAST one), run on Windows only.
All of our propriety business applications (all businesses have at LEAST one), run on Windows only.
Oh, come on. You guys turn everything into a Windows vs. Everything Else debate. I think this is what, the fourth topic this week to do that? This time, the first anti-Microsoft post was obviously a joke and yet it still sparked a multi-page argument.
Linux is great for servers, enthusiasts who like to have complete control over their OS, advanced users looking to save a few bucks by going open-source, and PCs that must run repeatable scripts with little to no user input on a rock-solid and secure platform. OS X is great for multimedia users who want a simple, fun-to-use platform that can't be beaten when it comes to music, photos, and video. Windows is great for gamers, casual Internet/email users, users of specialized or proprietary applications, and multitaskers who want unmatched compatability on a general purpose platform that is an excellent compromise between the power of Linux and the simplicity of OS X.
That's it. Get over it. None of the platforms can do everything the others can do, so they all have their own uses. Microsoft's product is the most successful because their platform is the best for the majority of users. But for the other 10% of users, Windows is not the best choice, so they use Linux or OS X.
These debates are getting ridiculous. No one argues about VIA vs. Intel like this. Why? Because both products have their own purposes. The OS "war" is no different.
I don't want to come across as a self-appointed moderator here; just a little tired of being unable to talk about Microsoft on this board without mentioning why it is better/worse than other operating systems.
Instead, let's talk about the original topic. I for one think Microsoft must have done really well to post a "sharp increase" in the middle of an economic slump.
Linux is great for servers, enthusiasts who like to have complete control over their OS, advanced users looking to save a few bucks by going open-source, and PCs that must run repeatable scripts with little to no user input on a rock-solid and secure platform. OS X is great for multimedia users who want a simple, fun-to-use platform that can't be beaten when it comes to music, photos, and video. Windows is great for gamers, casual Internet/email users, users of specialized or proprietary applications, and multitaskers who want unmatched compatability on a general purpose platform that is an excellent compromise between the power of Linux and the simplicity of OS X.
That's it. Get over it. None of the platforms can do everything the others can do, so they all have their own uses. Microsoft's product is the most successful because their platform is the best for the majority of users. But for the other 10% of users, Windows is not the best choice, so they use Linux or OS X.
These debates are getting ridiculous. No one argues about VIA vs. Intel like this. Why? Because both products have their own purposes. The OS "war" is no different.
I don't want to come across as a self-appointed moderator here; just a little tired of being unable to talk about Microsoft on this board without mentioning why it is better/worse than other operating systems.
Instead, let's talk about the original topic. I for one think Microsoft must have done really well to post a "sharp increase" in the middle of an economic slump.