ksanders2006
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
- Messages
- 157
Can't he be charged for this?
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
Michael's Computers
- Thread starter obs
- Start date
Originally posted by Black Morty Rackham
To be honest, I think that if you can fool people, get away with it, and not break any laws, go for it.People are idiots. Might as well take advantage of it.
See, i think that's where the problem with this is.
It's fraud, which is obviously against the law.
He's claiming to sell something that's fake.
Now if he was selling a 486 computer, claimed it was a 486 computer, didn't make any bogus claims, and someone still paid $2000 then yeah, I see nothing wrong with it.
A fool and his money as they say.
SarverSystems
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2002
- Messages
- 7,408
We should all put $1.00 into a fund, buy a system from him. Then we'll see what happens from there.
I can just guess, but I am sure there is NO samples avaliable. Tom couldn't get one, so I don't think its in the intrest that kyle waste the energy typing a request to him.
Crap, this reply was useless. But I am not going to delete it because that would be counter productive.
Cheers,
Crap, this reply was useless. But I am not going to delete it because that would be counter productive.
Cheers,
Yeah I really doubt anyone would get one. I tried a few weeks ago to no avail. I even tried sucking up to him. An interesting tidbit.. I sent it to "[email protected]" and his return address was "[email protected]". Check out his sig too
From: "Jeff Fila"
To: [email protected]
Subject: Contact From Michael's Computers
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 10:59:48 -0500
Hi Michael,
I've known about your site and your computers for a while and think you do some pretty cool stuff. I am the managing editor for Designtechnica, one of the most popular computer and consumer electronics review Websites on the net. We specialize in finding products with what we call the "cool factor" and I think our readers would be very interested in your products.
If you'd like to have any products reviewed for the Designtechnica readers, let me know. We'd love to get our hands on some of your designs.
Thanks,
Jeff
Jeff Fila
Managing Editor
Designtechnica Corporation
www.designtechnica.com
From: "Jeff Fila"
To: [email protected]
Subject: Contact From Michael's Computers
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 10:59:48 -0500
Hi Michael,
I've known about your site and your computers for a while and think you do some pretty cool stuff. I am the managing editor for Designtechnica, one of the most popular computer and consumer electronics review Websites on the net. We specialize in finding products with what we call the "cool factor" and I think our readers would be very interested in your products.
If you'd like to have any products reviewed for the Designtechnica readers, let me know. We'd love to get our hands on some of your designs.
Thanks,
Jeff
Jeff Fila
Managing Editor
Designtechnica Corporation
www.designtechnica.com
youd think that if he was legit hed be sending review samples to major venues. You can NEVER have "too much" business.
/edit: im watching the video interview...what a bullshitter. yeh, they cant send a unit because theyre making something "better"
Chris_Morley
Former [H] Consumer Managing Ed.
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2000
- Messages
- 3,609
I emailed him back in December. This is what I wrote:
I have a few questions about your MX51.
1) The graphic you have on your page is the 3200+. Is this the
processor used, or is it the FX-51? They are not the same and you seem to switch from one to the other in your specs.
2) The ATI M10P is a Radeon 9600 Pro. It has half the rendering
pipelines and half the bandwidth available, yet you say it's the fastest video card available, with 3DMark2003 scores of over 15,000.
3) 15,000 in 3DMark03 is very impressive. Companies using the 9800XT 256MB card in their destops are having a hard time pushing 7,000. I'd like to know what special tricks you're using to get that score with an inferior graphics card.
4) That laptop is from an ODM in Taiwan, yet you say you're a
manufacturer and not an integrator. That's a white book laptop available to anyone.
5) You have quotes from CGW on your website. I have all the issues from the past several months and I can't seem to find it anywhere. I know Wil at CGW personally, maybe I could ask him?
6) I won't even go into some of the other claims you have on your website, but from what I've read, either you have NO idea what you're doing or you're trying to ride a wave of traffic to your website using deceptive practices.
Either way you're a liar or a fool.
Chris
And this is what I got back:
Thank you for contacting us Chris,
We are utilizing the FX-51 processor which we have been doing so for the last 5 weeks now since we are a manufacturing company.
We are also using the latest video chipsets which are 3 times as fast as the 9800 Pro and
at many times 5 times as fast. Our average scores have surpassed 15,000 within 3DMArk2003.
We are the only instant computer systems. Perhaps thats why we sell to smart clients every week.
We will be posting our latest pictures of our MX51s within a day. We manufacture our systems here in Southern California.
Are you ready for instant performance? Thank you again for your inquiries Chris!
Showed it to our field sales engineer from AMD, Travis Justillian, and he just about died laughing.
I have a few questions about your MX51.
1) The graphic you have on your page is the 3200+. Is this the
processor used, or is it the FX-51? They are not the same and you seem to switch from one to the other in your specs.
2) The ATI M10P is a Radeon 9600 Pro. It has half the rendering
pipelines and half the bandwidth available, yet you say it's the fastest video card available, with 3DMark2003 scores of over 15,000.
3) 15,000 in 3DMark03 is very impressive. Companies using the 9800XT 256MB card in their destops are having a hard time pushing 7,000. I'd like to know what special tricks you're using to get that score with an inferior graphics card.
4) That laptop is from an ODM in Taiwan, yet you say you're a
manufacturer and not an integrator. That's a white book laptop available to anyone.
5) You have quotes from CGW on your website. I have all the issues from the past several months and I can't seem to find it anywhere. I know Wil at CGW personally, maybe I could ask him?
6) I won't even go into some of the other claims you have on your website, but from what I've read, either you have NO idea what you're doing or you're trying to ride a wave of traffic to your website using deceptive practices.
Either way you're a liar or a fool.
Chris
And this is what I got back:
Thank you for contacting us Chris,
We are utilizing the FX-51 processor which we have been doing so for the last 5 weeks now since we are a manufacturing company.
We are also using the latest video chipsets which are 3 times as fast as the 9800 Pro and
at many times 5 times as fast. Our average scores have surpassed 15,000 within 3DMArk2003.
We are the only instant computer systems. Perhaps thats why we sell to smart clients every week.
We will be posting our latest pictures of our MX51s within a day. We manufacture our systems here in Southern California.
Are you ready for instant performance? Thank you again for your inquiries Chris!
Showed it to our field sales engineer from AMD, Travis Justillian, and he just about died laughing.
- Joined
- May 18, 1997
- Messages
- 55,601
We looked into these guys last year and decided that giving them ANY press was the wrong thing to do. They are full of shit and I seriously doubt that anyone that even knows what the Internet is would buy a product from them...
For any of you that are curious about the site and didn't get to see it.
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.michaelscomputers.com/
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.michaelscomputers.com/
CaNaDian PyRo
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2002
- Messages
- 217
But the resulting drama that ensues guarantees hilarity.
CaNaDian PyRo
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2002
- Messages
- 217
LoL.Originally posted by eyedol
For any of you that are curious about the site and didn't get to see it.
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.michaelscomputers.com/
I Googled 'TXK Hyper drive' with no results.
CrimandEvil
Dick with a heart of gold
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2003
- Messages
- 19,670
LOL! I'd hate to have a pissed Marine on my tail!
HOLY SHIT! I Just got done reading some of the customer reviews on michael's computers that Eyedol posted. Here's the link to the customer's reviews
http://web.archive.org/web/20030401110338/michaelscomputers.com/Michaels_Customer_Comments.htm
from his latest page. Here's what I found:
Holy crap does that sound way to perfect, and that guy was doing all those things at once? Bullshit. Jesus christ, who would want to do all that at once anyway?
But CHECK THIS OUT...
Union City is where I went to High School, and currently where I live very close to. I wonder if I could look this "Briana Silva" and find her somehow... hmmm... I'm literally 2 minutes from Union City. I'm now very very curious.
I just did a white page search for Briana Silva, and found nothing. Did a Google search... nothing. Did a Yahoo People's search and found 2 people:
2 Briana Silvas However, they're not located in Union City.
One of my friends I played sports with in High School was named Matt Silva. I wonder if Briana is his mother or relative of some sort. He lived in Union City... damn I wish I had his phone # still.
I'll keep you guys posted if I find out any more info on this "Briana".
-Logiks
http://web.archive.org/web/20030401110338/michaelscomputers.com/Michaels_Customer_Comments.htm
from his latest page. Here's what I found:
Holy crap does that sound way to perfect, and that guy was doing all those things at once? Bullshit. Jesus christ, who would want to do all that at once anyway?
But CHECK THIS OUT...
Union City is where I went to High School, and currently where I live very close to. I wonder if I could look this "Briana Silva" and find her somehow... hmmm... I'm literally 2 minutes from Union City. I'm now very very curious.
I just did a white page search for Briana Silva, and found nothing. Did a Google search... nothing. Did a Yahoo People's search and found 2 people:
2 Briana Silvas However, they're not located in Union City.
One of my friends I played sports with in High School was named Matt Silva. I wonder if Briana is his mother or relative of some sort. He lived in Union City... damn I wish I had his phone # still.
I'll keep you guys posted if I find out any more info on this "Briana".
-Logiks
I read the article, and watched the interview. I thought it was unneeded. Tom's shouldn't have done that. Waste of time, and effort. I see where they're coming from to watch out for frauds on the internet, but I feel it was unecessary for them to go out and actually cross examine someone like that. If they want to fraud, go ahead. If the customer is too stupid to even think about what stores are good and do some research for like 5 minutes, then in my opinion, they deserve to be ripped the hell off.
I have to agree with you. They should have waited until Michael's gave them a PC to review, or they should have just gone out and bought one. Maybe doing some real investigative work and finding some previous customers would have been a good idea. Making all this fuss without hard evidence is not fair. Sure there is a 98% chance that Michael's claims are full of BS, but you can't run someone into the ground like that.
One question I have about the interview is did Michael know it was being taped? If not and it was a concealed camera, recording the audio part of it is a violation of federal law. A person can secretly shoot all the video and photo's they want, but recording audio is a whole different ball game.
And to Logiks, posting peoples personal info on the boards, especially when they are "innocent bystanders", just isn't a nice courteous thing to do.
I am the reporter who did the article... I will address your incorrect points
1. There are no pcs. We tried to get a review unit, other review sites have tried to get a review unit. No one here wanted to risk $2000 on trying to buy a unit.
How do you review a non-existent computer? Would you order a non-existent computer?
2. We did contact previous customers. Rather they contacted us, didn't you read the article?
3. Regarding the videotaping, please go to the Sharky Forums... you will see the answer there.
4. Regarding the legality of audio taping. You are ABSOLUTELY WRONG on that. In the public (outside of a house/building/etc) there is no expectation of privacy. You can secretely audio/video tape anyone.
You are confusing private situations and public situations. In a private closed door meeting, secret audio taping would be illegal, unless you are the owner of the building/business.
Humphrey Cheung
Editor - www.tomshardware.com
SarverSystems
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2002
- Messages
- 7,408
Hey not5150, I'm curious how you conecealed the camera and what kind camera it was. Not that I plan to do any of that sneaky stuff myself, I'm just curious.
It looks to me like it was concealed in a notepad or briefcase, being that most of the video is at an angle. I imagine you holding soemthing like a briefcase trying to look inconspicuous.
It looks to me like it was concealed in a notepad or briefcase, being that most of the video is at an angle. I imagine you holding soemthing like a briefcase trying to look inconspicuous.
It wasn't concealed at all... I think he just didn't notice it.
Here is the huge Sharky thread
Sharky Forum - Michael's Computer's thread
Camera is a Panasonic GS-70 3CCD. Very small.
Here is the huge Sharky thread
Sharky Forum - Michael's Computer's thread
Camera is a Panasonic GS-70 3CCD. Very small.
"No one here wanted to risk $2000 on trying to buy a unit."
Why not? I think you guys should have tried to buy one of these POSs under a pseudo name and then sue the shit out of him for false advertising. You could easily get the rest of the companies whose logos he is using to sign on with their support. That way THG would get its money back and Michael would go byebye. Great fun.
Why not? I think you guys should have tried to buy one of these POSs under a pseudo name and then sue the shit out of him for false advertising. You could easily get the rest of the companies whose logos he is using to sign on with their support. That way THG would get its money back and Michael would go byebye. Great fun.
CrimandEvil
Dick with a heart of gold
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2003
- Messages
- 19,670
Thats called "Entrapment", "fraud", and "Indentity thief" and with a few other felonies tacked on you will easily spent just as much time behind bars as he would, then again the case agianst him could just as easily be thrown out because of the fraudulant ways that the evidence was obtained. Does that sound fun? Well maybe if you call bunking with some guy named "bubba" fun?
Yes I read your article.
1. If you didn't want to risk $2000 on a unit, then why do the story. The whole issue with this guy is his outlandish claims about his PC's. Would I buy a PC to back my story. Hell yes. That's the whole point.
2. You did not interview any customers. You showed a couple of e-mails, but no interviews. Big deal. I didn't say get emails, I said interviews.
3. I am not going to Sharky Forums to look around for some huge 10 page thread. If you want people to go check, please post a link or quote.
4. You say I'm wrong. I may be wrong. Your are the professional journalist so I am taking you for your word. Besides, it's a not really a legal matter now, since you didn't conseal the camera (based on not5150's reply). But if you weren't consealing the camera, then why didn't you hold it up at eye level like a pro would do? Still shady.
Basicaly, my point is: Tom's Hardware is not some noob website. It plays a large role in the hardware community, wether everyone likes that fact or not, it does. Running some tabloid like story on that website is out of place. JMIO.
Chris_Morley
Former [H] Consumer Managing Ed.
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2000
- Messages
- 3,609
What law school did you go to?
Entrapment - entrapment is where a police officer or other law enforcement officer induces a person to commit a crime that the person wouldnt have committed otherwise for the purpose of bringing a criminal prosecution against that person.
Fraud is defined as a deception deliberately practiced
to secure unfair or unlawful gain.
By definition, identity theft occurs when someone appropriates your personal information without your knowledge in order to commit fraud or theft.
My god, investigatory reporters do that ALL THE TIME.
Chris_Morley
Former [H] Consumer Managing Ed.
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2000
- Messages
- 3,609
1) There was no need to purchase a PC. He wasn't disputing the performance so much as the performance claims, and he was asking for the methods behind it.
2) Why does he need an interview with 'customers'? Those 'customers' never dealt with him, so why do you need them to say 'I didn't deal with him' in any other way than through an email?
3) Sounds like a personal problem.
4) He stated he couldn't hold it up and write at the same time. What's shady about that? News reporters REGULARLY used concealed cameras ALL THE TIME for investigatory work. Their fully hidden and out of view.
Ok... seeing that you didn't want to click on the link to the Sharky thread... I've copied and pasted how I held the camera.
"Camera was under my left arm... wasn't hidden.
It was the only way I could hold my notepad with my left hand and write with my right hand.
The bad angle is because I'm 5'5" and he is a giant 6'4" at least."
I didn't have a tripod, so maybe you can explain how I can write on a notepad and hold up a camera (at eye level) at the same time?
Also in response to your point 1.
Don't you get it?? The fact that we wouldn't risk $2000 is EXACTLY the reason we did the story. Think about it.
"Camera was under my left arm... wasn't hidden.
It was the only way I could hold my notepad with my left hand and write with my right hand.
The bad angle is because I'm 5'5" and he is a giant 6'4" at least."
I didn't have a tripod, so maybe you can explain how I can write on a notepad and hold up a camera (at eye level) at the same time?
Also in response to your point 1.
Don't you get it?? The fact that we wouldn't risk $2000 is EXACTLY the reason we did the story. Think about it.
I wont deal with what you think those terms mean, but maybe next time you should quote EVERYTHING in a post relevent to a topic that you want to dispute. I placed Great fun at the end of my post to indicate that I was being sarcastic.
And if someone bought a computer from this idiot and then realized it was wholly not what he claimed it to be then they can very well sue him for false advertising.
SarverSystems
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2002
- Messages
- 7,408
Who's to stop him from rernaming the parts?
Windows 2004 could really be Windows XP w/SP1. An AMD FX51 could be a regular Athlon OCed by 1MHz.
I'm not sticking up for him, but that's the only logical explaination I can think of.
Windows 2004 could really be Windows XP w/SP1. An AMD FX51 could be a regular Athlon OCed by 1MHz.
I'm not sticking up for him, but that's the only logical explaination I can think of.
Oh I don't know what about copyrights? Lindows had trouble in court, imagine if "michael's computers" produced windows 2k4, definate violation. Same with FX-xx AMD should have rights to the FX name, any judge would see that as a violation. It's not like he rebranded it MX and Frames, he used FX and Windows.
Either way, it's fraud. If he was just selling slow PCs to dumb consumers thats one thing. But outright lying to make profit wouldn't go far in court.
Either way, it's fraud. If he was just selling slow PCs to dumb consumers thats one thing. But outright lying to make profit wouldn't go far in court.
Besides he rambeled for 9 minutes before he realized it was being taped. I think I like it as is. Good work. Oh, yeah, a totally hidden camera would have been kosher too, many journalist do it. But what you got was plenty good for what you needed, bad angles and all.
SarverSystems
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2002
- Messages
- 7,408
I think they need to send a 2nd person out, ask the same questions in a different order, and see if his answers match up.