Mass Effect Legendary Edition

Wiz33

Gawd
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
518
Like Dan said, that's the only thing that really makes any sense, but IIRC there is never a single mention in the game (dialogue, journal entries, etc) that the "human Reaper" was some sort of core or "heart" that would be at the center of the larger cuttlefish looking Reapers... it's just referred to as a "human Reaper" multiple times. If taken literally then one would indeed assume it was supposed to be a giant space-borne entity like the other Reapers but in a form loosely resembling a human. This idea really doesn't make any sense for the reasons outlined above. It was sort of theorycrafted by fans into the "core of a Reaper" idea.

In other words I'm agreeing with you, I'm just pointing out that the concept was kind of bungled by the writers and/or development team because it really wasn't made clear.

Well, given that a Reaper will dwarf any alliance ship short of the DA. It's highly possible for what you saw will fit inside as the core, just that the outer shell have not been fitted.
 

Dan_D

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
58,200
Like Dan said, that's the only thing that really makes any sense, but IIRC there is never a single mention in the game (dialogue, journal entries, etc) that the "human Reaper" was some sort of core or "heart" that would be at the center of the larger cuttlefish looking Reapers... it's just referred to as a "human Reaper" multiple times. If taken literally then one would indeed assume it was supposed to be a giant space-borne entity like the other Reapers but in a form loosely resembling a human. This idea really doesn't make any sense for the reasons outlined above. It was sort of theorycrafted by fans into the "core of a Reaper" idea.

In other words I'm agreeing with you, I'm just pointing out that the concept was kind of bungled by the writers and/or development team because it really wasn't made clear.
Agreed. It wasn't clear, and I think if that's what the developers were going for it would have made many people feel much better about it. I also think it could have given us an opportunity to go inside Harbinger and have something to fight. The bullshit on the Citadel was both too derivative of ME1 and basically shit from the moment you walk into the beam and transport up to the Citadel.
Well, given that a Reaper will dwarf any alliance ship short of the DA. It's highly possible for what you saw will fit inside as the core, just that the outer shell have not been fitted.
Again, the Destiny Ascension is an Asari vessel, not an Alliance one. That said, the rest of what you said makes sense if that premise is correct. Sadly, we have to rationalize the endings of the last two games because they have shitty elements. ME2's is much less egregious than ME3's problems though.
 

Wiz33

Gawd
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
518
Ok, In the fear of starting a war here ๐Ÿ˜œ. Which ending option will you go for and why? I think I'll stay away for a few days and come back when things clam back down ๐Ÿ˜œ
 

Dan_D

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
58,200
Ok, In the fear of starting a war here ๐Ÿ˜œ. Which ending option will you go for and why? I think I'll stay away for a few days and come back when things clam back down ๐Ÿ˜œ
Control or Destroy endings are fine. Synthesis is for Nazi's and child molesters. Anyone who chooses this ending is a terrible human being who would agree with eugenics as a matter of course. The fourth option is the "give up and do nothing ending" which is just dumb. I can't believe the people who requested that crap get added to the game. It's even harder to understand why BioWare actually included it.
 

Derangel

Fully [H]
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
19,608
Control or Destroy endings are fine. Synthesis is for Nazi's and child molesters. Anyone who chooses this ending is a terrible human being who would agree with eugenics as a matter of course. The fourth option is the "give up and do nothing ending" which is just dumb. I can't believe the people who requested that crap get added to the game. It's even harder to understand why BioWare actually included it.

Destroy is effectively genocide. Control is basically slavery. All the endings suck in their own way. While it's written very poorly (like a lot of ME3) I like the "I don't trust this star child that has been haunting my dreams" concept behind the fourth ending. It's still a bad ending, but it almost feels like one some versions of Shepard would go for, especially ones that agree with Ashley's outlook on humanity and their place in the universe.
 

Dan_D

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
58,200
Destroy is effectively genocide. Control is basically slavery. All the endings suck in their own way. While it's written very poorly (like a lot of ME3) I like the "I don't trust this star child that has been haunting my dreams" concept behind the fourth ending. It's still a bad ending, but it almost feels like one some versions of Shepard would go for, especially ones that agree with Ashley's outlook on humanity and their place in the universe.
I will agree that each ending is "bad" in its own way.

Synthesis forces change on all organic and inorganic beings in the galaxy. It's like someone abducting you and changing your skin color or other physical and biological characteristics without your consent. It's solving racism by using space magic to make everyone the same. Forcibly turning everyone in to hybrid synthetics without their consent is just about as bad as it gets. It's the type of violation that's often beyond what can be achieved in real life. Frankly, it's a fucking horror show for those involved if you think about it. Several points concerning this were brought up and dialog revolving around that can actually be said / triggered in the game post-Levithan if I am not mistaken. Destroy is in fact, genocide. However, it's only genocide of the synthetic life in the galaxy. This is bad given you may have worked hard to save the Geth and prove they can work / co-exist with the Quarians. You do kill the Reapers, but one could argue that they have it coming given millions of years worth of genocide they have committed and it being necessary in order to stop that cycle.

Control does enslave the Reapers, but again this too is almost justice as the Reapers kind of deserve it given what they've done. Unfortunately, the Star Brat and this ending create story problems as they contradict the idea that Reapers were sentient life forms with their own will. It was better in ME1 when we had no understanding of the Reaper's motives as Sovereign stated: "It was beyond our understanding." It really isn't. In the final version of ME3, we learn they were programed to do it as a solution to a particular problem. They are unable to determine their own destiny and are slaves to their base programming. The writers could have worked around this via the concept of "shackled AI", and the crucible being a transmitter capable of setting them free, but I still think the criticism is valid.

But I totally disagree with any version of Shepard going for the "pout like a child and do nothing" ending. Shepard is person of action in all forms. He/She wouldn't do nothing. Shepard is often presented with choices and finds an alternative to those choices, taking a path others said would be too difficult or even impossible. Even when Shepard's choices are more binary, he or she will still make one. Doing nothing and accepting fate just isn't in Shepard's character. We do not have full control over the character. While we can choose the methods that Shepard may employ to complete tasks or even choose which tasks Shepard does or doesn't do, ultimately what drives a Paragon or Renegade Shepard is largely the same. Either extreme and everything in between is driven to do the same things. It's the methodology and philosophy behind their actions that makes the difference.

For a Paragon Shepard, the means are just as important as the ends. For a Renegade Shepard, the means always justifies the ends regardless of what those means are.
 

Armenius

Fully [H]
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
25,743
I honestly feel like Destroy is the only proper ending out of the ones we're given.
 

Dan_D

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
58,200
If only they had gone with the indoctrination theory & ran with it...

People always say that and I do agree it would probably have been better than what we got depending on how that was handled. I don't think this was really the right way to handle the ending though. I think it would have worked against Shepard's character as it's his/her super strong will that makes them special. Shepard even (thus far) has always seemed immune to indoctrination and it would explain Harbinger's interest in Shepard if that's the case. Outside of that, there is no reason for it. We know Shepard isn't the first person to kill a Reaper. Humanity was far from the first species to do so. We know it was done as far back as 37 million years ago.
 

CrimsonKnight13

Lord Stabington of [H]ard|Fortress
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
7,540
People always say that and I do agree it would probably have been better than what we got depending on how that was handled. I don't think this was really the right way to handle the ending though. I think it would have worked against Shepard's character as it's his/her super strong will that makes them special. Shepard even (thus far) has always seemed immune to indoctrination and it would explain Harbinger's interest in Shepard if that's the case. Outside of that, there is no reason for it. We know Shepard isn't the first person to kill a Reaper. Humanity was far from the first species to do so. We know it was done as far back as 37 million years ago.
Would've been still better than multiple lose choice IMHO. I hate all of the endings of ME3.
 

Mr. Bluntman

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
6,599
I honestly feel like Destroy is the only proper ending out of the ones we're given.
This. I never bothered to pick any other ending and always worked to get maximum war assets so Shep could live. In the in game dialog he says it himself that he didn't make it all the way to the Starbrat just to throw his life away. The goal from the start was always to destroy the Reapers, and that's honestly the only choice I see our Determinator making in the end. Start that family or build a house on the homeworld and all that. And I agree with CrimsonKnight, the default endings are shit. I can't wait for the ending mods to come for ME:LA.

So far I have about 120 hours in and I can say for a fact that 2 and 3 received the least work. There's still very pixelated lightmaps dispersed throughout in 3 (2 looks great) and that is so disappointing to see. Most textures are better but some are still shit as Dan_D has already disclosed. Ambient occlusion being included definitely helps, but it isn't of very high quality. Unfortunately there is no way to force driver anti aliasing that I am aware of and nVIDIA hasn't released a driver updated specifically for this game. Right now GPU utilization is between low teens to low 40's at maximum at 2560x1440 at a capped 30fps on a Titan X Pascal. Where's that driver, nVIDIA?
 
Last edited:

Wiz33

Gawd
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
518
I honestly feel like Destroy is the only proper ending out of the ones we're given.
Only if I didn't spent half the game getting a peaceful end to the Geth/Quarian war. Oh and getting EDI and Joker together. Will not choose destroy.
 

Mr. Bluntman

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
6,599
Only if I didn't spent half the game getting a peaceful end to the Geth/Quarian war. Oh and getting EDI and Joker together. Will not choose destroy.
youropinion.gif

The geth and EDI can be re-created. Organic civilizations, once they're gone, they're gone. Same with Shepard. Destroy.
 
Last edited:

Dan_D

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
58,200
This. I never bothered to pick any other ending and always worked to get maximum war assets so Shep could live. In the in game dialog he says it himself that he didn't make it all the way to the Starbrat just to throw his life away. The goal from the start was always to destroy the Reapers, and that's honestly the only choice I see our Determinator making in the end. Start that family or build a house on the homeworld and all that. And I agree with CrimsonKnight, the default endings are shit. I can't wait for the ending mods to come for ME:LA.

So far I have about 120 hours in and I can say for a fact that 2 and 3 received the least work. There's still very pixelated lightmaps dispersed throughout in 3 (2 looks great) and that is so disappointing to see. Most textures are better but some are still shit as Dan_D has already disclosed. Ambient occlusion being included definitely helps, but it isn't of very high quality. Unfortunately there is no way to force driver anti aliasing that I am aware of and nVIDIA hasn't released a driver updated specifically for this game. Right now GPU utilization is between low teens to low 40's at maximum at 2560x1440 at a capped 30fps on a Titan X Pascal. Where's that driver, nVIDIA?

I can tell you that work is being done in the modding community to address the shitty textures. I'm still undecided how much work I'm going to do on that front. It's a lot of work.
 

Derangel

Fully [H]
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
19,608
I will agree that each ending is "bad" in its own way.

Synthesis forces change on all organic and inorganic beings in the galaxy. It's like someone abducting you and changing your skin color or other physical and biological characteristics without your consent. It's solving racism by using space magic to make everyone the same. Forcibly turning everyone in to hybrid synthetics without their consent is just about as bad as it gets. It's the type of violation that's often beyond what can be achieved in real life. Frankly, it's a fucking horror show for those involved if you think about it. Several points concerning this were brought up and dialog revolving around that can actually be said / triggered in the game post-Levithan if I am not mistaken. Destroy is in fact, genocide. However, it's only genocide of the synthetic life in the galaxy. This is bad given you may have worked hard to save the Geth and prove they can work / co-exist with the Quarians. You do kill the Reapers, but one could argue that they have it coming given millions of years worth of genocide they have committed and it being necessary in order to stop that cycle.

Control does enslave the Reapers, but again this too is almost justice as the Reapers kind of deserve it given what they've done. Unfortunately, the Star Brat and this ending create story problems as they contradict the idea that Reapers were sentient life forms with their own will. It was better in ME1 when we had no understanding of the Reaper's motives as Sovereign stated: "It was beyond our understanding." It really isn't. In the final version of ME3, we learn they were programed to do it as a solution to a particular problem. They are unable to determine their own destiny and are slaves to their base programming. The writers could have worked around this via the concept of "shackled AI", and the crucible being a transmitter capable of setting them free, but I still think the criticism is valid.

But I totally disagree with any version of Shepard going for the "pout like a child and do nothing" ending. Shepard is person of action in all forms. He/She wouldn't do nothing. Shepard is often presented with choices and finds an alternative to those choices, taking a path others said would be too difficult or even impossible. Even when Shepard's choices are more binary, he or she will still make one. Doing nothing and accepting fate just isn't in Shepard's character. We do not have full control over the character. While we can choose the methods that Shepard may employ to complete tasks or even choose which tasks Shepard does or doesn't do, ultimately what drives a Paragon or Renegade Shepard is largely the same. Either extreme and everything in between is driven to do the same things. It's the methodology and philosophy behind their actions that makes the difference.

For a Paragon Shepard, the means are just as important as the ends. For a Renegade Shepard, the means always justifies the ends regardless of what those means are.

Those are all fair takes. I can't remember which ending I picked the first time I played. Might have been Synth. Then I redid the ending and picked the fourth to see what it was like.

I don't disagree with your assessment on the fourth ending, but I think a lot of it comes down to how bad it's done. It's, by far, the worst written of the endings. I think that kind of ending could be done well, if there was actual effort put into it and they didn't make Shepard come off as a blooming idiot.
 

Mr. Bluntman

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
6,599
I can tell you that work is being done in the modding community to address the shitty textures. I'm still undecided how much work I'm going to do on that front. It's a lot of work.
Will anything be done to address the shitty lightmaps as well?
 

Dan_D

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
58,200
Will anything be done to address the shitty lightmaps as well?
Well, that's part of texture work. There are three to five separate textures for every object in the games. Each one does something different. You have your diffuse texture, specular map and the normal map. In other cases there tint and stripe maps as well. In at least one case there is also a separate mask that creates a specific visual effect.
 

Mr. Bluntman

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
6,599
I am now encountering a weird bug where some textures will go pitch black upon getting close to an object or wall. In other cases I lose the specularity/bump map layers on some meshes/models. I've reinstalled twice and the problem is still there in Mass Effect 3.
 

Dan_D

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
58,200
I am now encountering a weird bug where some textures will go pitch black upon getting close to an object or wall. In other cases I lose the specularity/bump map layers on some meshes/models. I've reinstalled twice and the problem is still there in Mass Effect 3.
Well, that's not normal for the game. I've got more than a dozen playthroughs of Mass Effect 3 and that's never been a problem without modding the game and breaking files. I've nearly completed ME3 in the Legendary Edition and never saw anything like that. I'm not sure what could cause that, but it's not an issue with the specular maps themselves. That much I know for certain as I've pulled many of them and looked at them directly.
 

Wiz33

Gawd
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
518
So what was your Galactic Readiness when you hit Earth in ME3. I did almost every side quests in ME1,2,3 and did almost all the system scan in ME3 and was still short of 7800 before I hit Horizon but finishing Horizon and a couple more scans finally got be above 7800. I now understand why they say don't just jump into ME3 if you want the best ending.
 

Mr. Bluntman

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
6,599
So what was your Galactic Readiness when you hit Earth in ME3. I did almost every side quests in ME1,2,3 and did almost all the system scan in ME3 and was still short of 7800 before I hit Horizon but finishing Horizon and a couple more scans finally got be above 7800. I now understand why they say don't just jump into ME3 if you want the best ending.
My last run it was 8132. If I went back and did a bit more in ME1 I bet I could get that a little higher. Not sure what the maximum is but I'm sure a quick Google search will tell me. And yes, don't rush in ME3 (or in any of the games, for that matter), do everything, get everything if you want maximum EMS.
 

Wiz33

Gawd
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
518
My last run it was 8132. If I went back and did a bit more in ME1 I bet I could get that a little higher. Not sure what the maximum is but I'm sure a quick Google search will tell me. And yes, don't rush in ME3 (or in any of the games, for that matter), do everything, get everything if you want maximum EMS.

Not rushing a all, actually talking the time to pay attention to all the dialog and exploring all the conversation with different squad mates on the team. Really makes you appreciate the attention to details the writing team did.
 

Dan_D

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
58,200
I'm dreading the end. I may just play Earth till I get to the Citadel then quit. I'm afraid I'm just going to shoot the Starchild /Lead writer ๐Ÿ˜œ๐Ÿ˜ข

That's what I'll do until the Mass Effect Happy Ending Mod is ported for ME3LE. (Such things are being worked on.)
 

SmokeRngs

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - April 2008
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
17,122
I'm dreading the end. I may just play Earth till I get to the Citadel then quit. I'm afraid I'm just going to shoot the Starchild /Lead writer ๐Ÿ˜œ๐Ÿ˜ข
That's exactly what I did my very first playthrough of ME3 years back. And all of a sudden my choices were gone and they game ended.
 

termite

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 27, 2004
Messages
5,595
That's exactly what I did my very first playthrough of ME3 years back. And all of a sudden my choices were gone and they game ended.

That was my strategy the last couple of playthroughs. Do everything, complete the citadel missions, with only the Priority Earth mission left.

Then just shut it off.
 

Mr. Bluntman

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
6,599
That's what I'll do until the Mass Effect Happy Ending Mod is ported for ME3LE. (Such things are being worked on.)
I personally prefer JAM. I haven't been able to find any news if that is being ported as well. Any news about this mod in particular?
 

Mr. Bluntman

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
6,599
Not rushing a all, actually talking the time to pay attention to all the dialog and exploring all the conversation with different squad mates on the team. Really makes you appreciate the attention to details the writing team did.
And at the same time depending on who your LI is you really feel the gaps in attention and time given. But then again the game was rushed and should have had a full 3 years of development to fully flesh out the last half of the game. ME:LA could have done a little of that but it didn't. Only 1 received anything but texture upgrades to what the game should have looked like at launch.
I'm dreading the end. I may just play Earth till I get to the Citadel then quit. I'm afraid I'm just going to shoot the Starchild /Lead writer ๐Ÿ˜œ๐Ÿ˜ข
Yeah, the ending is horrible and a slap to the face to anyone who played all the way from the beginning of ME1 up to that point. And Starbrat can stick his "ideal" solution up where the sun doesn't shine.
 

Martin the Kiteboy

Weaksauce
Joined
Nov 23, 2020
Messages
88
Been playing ME1 LE recently, having a good deal of fun so far. Textures looks great, 4K is lovely, and I really appreciate the HDR. Happy that I started my play-through with Legendary scaling after the last patch, hopefully should make hitting level 30 pretty simple. Playing on Insanity, and aiming for full completion.

What strikes me every time is just how different 1 feels from 2. It is as if 1 is open and innocent, while 2 felt confined and malingering. I think they really nailed the oppressive atmosphere in 2, especially with Omega. Main worlds Feros/Noveria/Ilos have their own feel, but the rest of the game in 1 encourages happy exploration: All is well in the Galaxy. They did well to add this omnipresent sense of gloom and foreboding in 2, and I cannot put my finger on how they did it. Will pay attention on my play through of 2.
 

Dan_D

Extremely [H]
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
58,200
I personally prefer JAM. I haven't been able to find any news if that is being ported as well. Any news about this mod in particular?
I did use JAM, although I can't recall what was different about version B vs. the traditional MEHEM. I don't particularly care for version A of JAM because the Star Brat was a fucking stupid idea. As for the rest, I can't speak to that. Here is the deal with the mods right now:

Remember when BioWare said that they reached out to the mod community? No one in the mod community actually seemed to know anything about that. However, this is because the four people that were talking to BioWare did so under NDA. The toolset that allowed all of the mods for ME3 (and some ME2, ME1 modding) were made by about 3 or 4 people in total. I worked with the guy who did ALOT, but only so much as I provided textures for the ALOT installer packages. The people behind those tools are working with BioWare and the toolset is being updated to allow mods like MEHEM, JAM, etc. to be made compatible with the Legendary Edition. However, at present the toolset is only capable of texture modding. The rest of the functionality is currently incapable of writing to the actual game files. It's been left disabled, but included so that modders can get a feel for it and play with it, but not actually break game installs just yet.

So, that's what's going on with the toolset. This is the necessary first step for anything like JAM, the Thane Mod, Miranda Mod, MEHEM, Better Dreams, etc. to be made compatible with ME3LE. Unfortunately, it is up to the modders to make their stuff work with ME3LE. Otherwise, someone else will have to recreate what was done albeit from scratch, or try and take the old mod and make it work. The latter is a dicey proposition, as legally the mods are the property of their original authors. The ME3 Mod community usually allows use of these mods provided we get credit for them, but at least one popular modder pulled all their stuff of Nexus Mods and is having a fit somewhere at the idea of someone using their mod as a base to recreate it for ME3LE.

The answer is: No one knows. It's certain that some authors will make their mods available for ME3LE, but some may not. I haven't talked directly to the people responsible for those mods. As far as the toolset, I suspect we will see mesh modding next, followed by everything else needed to make these mods a reality in ME3LE. All I know about BioWare's involvement is that its speeding up the process for making these tools work, but I don't know by how much. Under the hood, the Legendary Edition is considerably different than the original games. Even texture mods often don't work when ported over to the new game as lighting is different in these games. My own mods are about 50/50 on working in the new game with the new texture tools and none of them install directly, they have to be manually installed at this point.
 

Wiz33

Gawd
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
518
Been playing ME1 LE recently, having a good deal of fun so far. Textures looks great, 4K is lovely, and I really appreciate the HDR. Happy that I started my play-through with Legendary scaling after the last patch, hopefully should make hitting level 30 pretty simple. Playing on Insanity, and aiming for full completion.

What strikes me every time is just how different 1 feels from 2. It is as if 1 is open and innocent, while 2 felt confined and malingering. I think they really nailed the oppressive atmosphere in 2, especially with Omega. Main worlds Feros/Noveria/Ilos have their own feel, but the rest of the game in 1 encourages happy exploration: All is well in the Galaxy. They did well to add this omnipresent sense of gloom and foreboding in 2, and I cannot put my finger on how they did it. Will pay attention on my play through of 2.

Yea, the style change from 1 to 2 to 3 doesn't sit well with me either but I just chalk it up to 1 being the exploration phase before you you discover the threat of the Reapers. Then 2 is more a team building phase where you try to put a team and resource together to stop the Collectors (so less exploring). Then with 3, the urgency to save Earth is all about getting the varies race to work together and recovering assets to help with the war efforts. I can live with that except for the ending.
 
Top