The entire Citadel sequence after Priority Earth was that way for me. It all felt off. Even the stuff with Anderson aside from the last conversation with him. And the way that ended with him dying and the wound appearing on Shepard seemed out of place. Everything after that was a double WTF?
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Mass Effect 3 SPOILERS THREAD
- Thread starter TheOneKnownAsMe
- Start date
The entire Citadel sequence after Priority Earth was that way for me. It all felt off. Even the stuff with Anderson aside from the last conversation with him. And the way that ended with him dying and the wound appearing on Shepard seemed out of place. Everything after that was a double WTF?
Wow, I must not have been paying attention to all the details, I was just glad I beat the game after what felt like a long time of playing lol.
Yeah you're right, now that I think of it, that whole sequence was a pretty big WTF, I think I was just glad I beat the game, LOL.
The blood on Shepard.. I saw that and I was like, must have been from injuries, but yeah.. that is most definitely a bullet wound I think, I hope the DLC will answer some questions.
The thing about the ending is that the more you think about it, the more it falls apart. An illusion makes plenty of sense, but BioWare acts like it wants to distance itself from the notion. Maybe this means it actually is an illusion and BioWare is pissy because people figured it out so quickly?
Florin22xxl
Limp Gawd
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How on earth can the ending in mass effect 3 ruin mass effect 1 and 2 as games?
)
Ryom
[H]ard|Gawd
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Given that they are story driven games, you realize that doing everything right isn't actually going to make a difference in the end. Hence, there is no real story and everything falls apart. When I had ME3 on order I was anticipating a full trilogy replay after beating it just to see how differently I could make things end up. Once I beat ME3 I realized there was absolutely no point to that and lost interest entirely.
Solitude
[H]ard|Gawd
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Indoctrination. I just want to know the characters and reapers fate after shepard got knocked out/enthralled. I NEED to know.
Solitude
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I read somewhere a guy changed the textures used on the glowing kid and it DOES smile when you choose control. if that's true I believe that is a significant clue.
I think ultimately that's what the problem is with the ending. I fully expected Shepard to die in most of the "endings", though I'm surprised there wasn't a totally happy ending where he lived with his love interest wherever or whatever. But the fact that the endings basically render the entire series moot is what really irks me. Your goal was to save the galaxy but it ends up destroyed anyway, or severely set back thousands of years, just as if the Reapers won in the first place. Adding to that the lack of your choices having any final, lasting impact as well.
I don't see much talk either about the "good" destroy ending with Shepard's body in the rubble. I've watched a few long reviews on Youtube about the endings but no one has touched on this.
I don't see much talk either about the "good" destroy ending with Shepard's body in the rubble. I've watched a few long reviews on Youtube about the endings but no one has touched on this.
It's the one I got and the only reason I got it was thanks to a lot of help and forewarning around here from people that had played the game and finished it much faster than I did.
Seeing that Shepherd lived for me is the only reason I didn't get violent.
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I wonder if that really was Shepard. You didn't see the face and there are other N7 soldiers and its almost definite that its concrete rubble and not from the Citadel. I was wondering if they were going to use this as a jumping off point for more DLC or ME4 or something using a new N7 character.
This.
Possibly. However, if you look in the PC folder, they do call the video file "Shepard Lives" or something like that...so it is pretty clear what the intent is with that video as far as what they want us to think.
Mass Effect is a huge cash cow. It's branching into movies and merchandising like crazy. The franchise is just getting going from their perspective. Call EA whatever you want but they know how to do one thing and do it well. MAKE MONEY. There is much more money to be made from Mass Effect. Considering what the original ending would have done was effectively end the series in a finite way which would have prevented sequels, I'll bet that EA moved in and told them to create an open ended conclusion to this game. The problem is that's not what it looks like.
Consider: The game has these awkward dream sequences. My first thought is that they might pull the "it was a dream card" at some point with the game's ending. The amount of plot holes in the ending aside, the dream sequences really do set the game up for that. Whether or not it is the nightmare of an injured Shepard laying in the rubble on Earth or an indoctrinated Shepard who most overcome the Reaper's influence is a matter of debate. It is hard to know what BioWare intended. I think the dream sequence crap was a built in "way out" to continue the series. Whether or not BioWare intended this or not from the start is also debatable. But I'd wager that EA told BioWare to change the ending to the game hence the first delay.
It's hard to say, but fan outcry may or may not have been intentional. But it solidifies the game in people's minds. The game has been out for a month and a half. Single player games aren't usually discussed too much after they've been out for a week or two. Yet web sites still report on this issue and will start doing so in droves once the new DLC comes out. The conclusion needs to be undone for things to continue because things like the SyntheStarTrekTMPGalactica ending create too many issues for the franchise to move forward. We've already discussed how prequels will be too limited in scope and would likely end up unsatisfying. The only way through is foward. And don't kid yourself, many people would fork over $60+ for an Mass Effect 4 tomorrow to resolve the ending of the third game because we love the characters and universe so much.
The game was supposed to feature your ME2 team as temporary squad mates on missions. This game has about a 3rd less actual missions than Mass Effect 2 did. Vehicle stuff was supposed to come back in some way but didn't. There is a lot of talk about other things like retaking Omega, and other sequences in the game. It's hard to separate fact from fiction here but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that EA probably looked at the game and realized they could get two games out of this. So some content was reserved for Mass Effect 4. I don't know whether or not some of this content was completed in anyway, but it's possible some of it was and is held back for DLC or ME4, or some of it was lost due to time constraints. Also consider that Shepard is as much a part of Mass Effect as anything. While another protagonist could work, Many Mass Effect fans have Shepards dating back five years each with their own unique choices and variables. Mass Effect without Shepard at this point I fear is like Halo without the Masterchief.
EA constantly pushes the boundaries with customers. Trust me, we will most likely see a Mass Effect 4, using the same graphics and the same engine in 2 years time with Shepard as the main protagonist. The bad ending for the most part will only feed the hype machine for the next game. We see a trailer with Shepard, and people will be lining up like never before to buy Mass Effect. I hate to say it but this ploy, despite being able to see something like this being the case, will work on me just like it will on any other Mass Effect fan.
Consider: The game has these awkward dream sequences. My first thought is that they might pull the "it was a dream card" at some point with the game's ending. The amount of plot holes in the ending aside, the dream sequences really do set the game up for that. Whether or not it is the nightmare of an injured Shepard laying in the rubble on Earth or an indoctrinated Shepard who most overcome the Reaper's influence is a matter of debate. It is hard to know what BioWare intended. I think the dream sequence crap was a built in "way out" to continue the series. Whether or not BioWare intended this or not from the start is also debatable. But I'd wager that EA told BioWare to change the ending to the game hence the first delay.
It's hard to say, but fan outcry may or may not have been intentional. But it solidifies the game in people's minds. The game has been out for a month and a half. Single player games aren't usually discussed too much after they've been out for a week or two. Yet web sites still report on this issue and will start doing so in droves once the new DLC comes out. The conclusion needs to be undone for things to continue because things like the SyntheStarTrekTMPGalactica ending create too many issues for the franchise to move forward. We've already discussed how prequels will be too limited in scope and would likely end up unsatisfying. The only way through is foward. And don't kid yourself, many people would fork over $60+ for an Mass Effect 4 tomorrow to resolve the ending of the third game because we love the characters and universe so much.
The game was supposed to feature your ME2 team as temporary squad mates on missions. This game has about a 3rd less actual missions than Mass Effect 2 did. Vehicle stuff was supposed to come back in some way but didn't. There is a lot of talk about other things like retaking Omega, and other sequences in the game. It's hard to separate fact from fiction here but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that EA probably looked at the game and realized they could get two games out of this. So some content was reserved for Mass Effect 4. I don't know whether or not some of this content was completed in anyway, but it's possible some of it was and is held back for DLC or ME4, or some of it was lost due to time constraints. Also consider that Shepard is as much a part of Mass Effect as anything. While another protagonist could work, Many Mass Effect fans have Shepards dating back five years each with their own unique choices and variables. Mass Effect without Shepard at this point I fear is like Halo without the Masterchief.
EA constantly pushes the boundaries with customers. Trust me, we will most likely see a Mass Effect 4, using the same graphics and the same engine in 2 years time with Shepard as the main protagonist. The bad ending for the most part will only feed the hype machine for the next game. We see a trailer with Shepard, and people will be lining up like never before to buy Mass Effect. I hate to say it but this ploy, despite being able to see something like this being the case, will work on me just like it will on any other Mass Effect fan.
Disregarding asset reuse examining the footage really seems to indicate it's the Citadel. At first I thought rubble in London but you can clearly see the Citadel type cables hanging around and even some markings on the rubble that would be appropriate. I don't think its a far-fetched idea to think that concrete of some type was used on the Citadel while itself is probably constructed from something entirely different, everything that has been added by the other races may be concrete based.
I think it's more likely that they reused cables and cable textures rather than have the Citadel be made of space-concrete. That makes no sense. Sure individual buildings might be but where Shepard was shouldn't be as that's the connecting point between the Crucible and the Presidium tower. (BTW, why was Shepard able to go there without a space suit?) I've heard the arguments about markings but frankly I think that's a bit far fetched. I see concrete all the time with markings on it. Take the highways in Phoenix for example. They feature Native American art in a lot of areas. Smash that up into little pieces and it might look quite alien. And again where Shepard supposedly was, shouldn't have had an atmosphere and furthermore the Citadel is supposed to be destroyed in the destroy ending. If that's the case then again how could Shepard be alive if this crap isn't a dream? See it makes no sense.
On a different spoiler, I finally saw what happens if you prevent Mordin from curing the genophage and I've got to say, that scene was difficult to watch. I can't imagine anyone doing that who didn't feel like a total asshole after.
This is just further proof BioWare has some damn good writers but they sure weren't used for the ending.
This is just further proof BioWare has some damn good writers but they sure weren't used for the ending.
Actually you don't have to kill Mordin under the right circumstances. If Eve is dead and Wreav is in charge, he can be talked out of curing the genophage. To further solidify your assholery, If you don't cure the genophage and Wrex is alive he'll confront you on the Citadel at some point and you'll be forced to kill him in self defense, or let Commander Bailey and C-SEC take care of him. So murdering Mordin to prevent the cure (which you have to do if Wrex is alive) will result in you having to kill Wrex as well.
Godmachine
[H]F Junkie
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Jesus this game can get quite depressing fast.
I have to say overall I enjoyed ME1 and ME2 quite a bit more.
I have to say overall I enjoyed ME1 and ME2 quite a bit more.
Yeah, I saw that too, kind of bummed me out. I was always proud of Shepard and Wrex having a good friendship if things were done right in ME1.
the no space suit thing i didnt have an issue with 3 words
Mass Effect field aka force fields
if they can have personal kinetic shields why not a VERY high power one that could keep air in?
this is why i think they post on PA was real
the guy the wrote that part and Talis stuff was epic
it really makes me think the ending was done by some one else with out over site
"Official" canon is Wrex died in ME1
What's generating this field? The Citadel? For what purpose?
im talking about the part with TIM on the Crucible in which case it was part of it
if you talking about the Citadel id guess the same thing
watch the docking scene in ME1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06Zhs6ZOtDk
Watch at 1:25 you can see the energy field
if you talking about the Citadel id guess the same thing
watch the docking scene in ME1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06Zhs6ZOtDk
Watch at 1:25 you can see the energy field
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Mass Effect doesn't have an official canon. At least not with regard to any content in the games themselves. BioWare has always carefully avoided it.
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Speaking of Mass Effect movies, there is going to be one but they're not going with the ME story. They're gonna make up something completely different. This pisses me off to no end. The story is what makes this game so popular. Why the fuck would you change everything. The only thing that makes me OK with it is its being done by the guys that made The Dark Knight so there is hope.
www.ingame.msnbc.msn.com/technology/ingame/mass-effect-movie-wont-be-based-mass-effect-games-120565
www.ingame.msnbc.msn.com/technology/ingame/mass-effect-movie-wont-be-based-mass-effect-games-120565
But the only ending in which Shepard presumably lives happens to be the hardest one to get. I guess you could say that BioWare is rewarding the most dedicated players by offering a glimpse (a hint?) of what's to come -- Shepard returning to consciousness from some crazy hallucination. Though you could also argue that the destroy ending is the only possible ending for Shepard to survive in the first place. This, unfortunately, encounters all sorts of practical problems.
Messed up ending this is. I hope the EC gets released sooner than later.
Messed up ending this is. I hope the EC gets released sooner than later.
This is as bad as what they're doing to World War Z.
That's an old article. It's pre-release of Mass Effect 3. I'm not sure how much stock I place in that.
in regards to the novels and if you go by the defaults ie dont carry a save game over from ME1 Wrex is dead in ME2 and 3 as well as the novels
there is a canon
things that are canon
Wrex is dead
Counsel dies
Udina on Counsel
there are a few others too
i think Liara is the canon LI too
That doesn't make something canon. The game chooses defaults, almost all of which are the worst choices because you didn't bother to play the first game and choose more wisely. So the game defaults to something so the story can work. The novels and comics don't even take place during the time frame of the games. Either they are prequels or they take place in between novel events. Things like Shepard's gender, physical appearance and background are never referred to. The only events I'm aware of from the games which get mentioned in comics or the novels are things which are common to all playthroughs and for all possible variations of the Shepard character.
BioWare has avoided canon because they want everyone's Shepard to be "canon."
I'm working my way through all three games again, I want to see how it all holds up when played continuously. I need to play through ME2 with a jerk Shepard anyways, I didn't get around to it previously. lol Who knows, maybe I'll get thought it by the time the EC stuff gets released.
Also, I find it funny how so many of you are pulling the "I didn't like it so the only ones who did must be my hated stereotype of choice" card. lol I could say the same thing about those who didn't like it and I would be just as wrong.
Also, I find it funny how so many of you are pulling the "I didn't like it so the only ones who did must be my hated stereotype of choice" card. lol I could say the same thing about those who didn't like it and I would be just as wrong.
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I may sound insane but the amount of speculation and fan fiction created by this "horrible" ending may make it out to be one of the best endings in modern gaming.
Look if it was a typical ending if everyone lives and people have babies with rainbow and unicorns this game would of been forgotten in a few months. now we have bioware with the option to change the ending in anyway possible, all the while keeping the hype/speculation/theories from the original ending.
This game will most likely go down in gaming history,.instead if just being another trilogy that people like.
Look if it was a typical ending if everyone lives and people have babies with rainbow and unicorns this game would of been forgotten in a few months. now we have bioware with the option to change the ending in anyway possible, all the while keeping the hype/speculation/theories from the original ending.
This game will most likely go down in gaming history,.instead if just being another trilogy that people like.
If they had just done what they told us all along and created great endings to begin with it would've been remembered. It would've been remembered anyway for the great series it was.
The only "going down" it's doing is in the "wtf" book
The only "going down" it's doing is in the "wtf" book
Guarantee you it won't, and bioware put themselves in the best possible spot to make sure they can have the perfect ending.
So I posted this on the BioWare forum:
OK so the more I think about Mass Effect 3 the more I hate it. I'm still fine with about 94% of the game. It's the last mission which I can't stand, but of course the endings are the kicker. We all know that so I won't delve too deeply into the issue.
Genocide / Mass Rape / Violation of Rights and Liberty
Control
So essentially Shepard's choice here is to enslave the Reapers or at least force them to follow his wishes. Force them to conform and bend to his or her will. I'm not sure what I find more appaling. The fact that the game's solution is to grab some electrical pipes and think magic happy thoughts or the fact that it endorses slavery and compuslory servitude as a means of viable self-defense. Yeah slavery is bad, but OK if it's done in self-defense right? Got it.
Synthesis
So this one endorses what amounts to DNA / genetic rape of the whole galaxy at once. You can attempt to justify this as the next step in evolution or whatever. The fact is that compelling people to bend to your will and force changes in their very DNA and physiology amounts to galactic rape. Not quite genocide, at least not until the mass suicides start and believe me, people all of the sudden seeing bioluminescent trace paths in their skin will probably kill themselves rather than get assimilited.
Destroy
So the Starchild is a liar but this choice is presented as kill EDI, possibly the Quarians and definately kill yourself and the Geth. Fantastic so we commit genocide on a galactic scale. So Shepard is basically turned into a moron (who questions nothing) and a genocidal maniac with a god complex. Excellent. Moving on. The Emporer, Megatron, Cobra Commander, the Joker, and pretty much all comic and cartoon villians would be so proud.
So yeah umm..... Liara might be a rapist?
I want to start off and say that I like Liara a lot. Probably a little more than is healthy. To call her my favorite romance option is an understatement. I just wanted you to know that what I'm about to say isn't because I hate Liara. Far from it. It's the fact that the writers abandoned consistency with this character at the end which bothers me. Not to say that Liara was always consistent in her portrayal. She wasn't. She changes and grows and sometimes not for reasons we understand at the time. But with a little digging, we find that she always has a reason or a strong justification for anything she's done up until this. The worst part is this change is so sublte, you may not even notice it at first.
Marriage, old age and lots of little blue children
So alot of fans are conjecturing that Liara might have melded with Shepard in such a way as to get herself pregnant and produce little mini-Blue AsariFemSheps. Cute on the surface. Hell paragon Shep can even ask for this in ME2. This seems extremely unlikely and incongruent to me. Obviously the title of this section is sensationlist attention whoring so I won't even try to deny that the evidence pointing to Liara doing this isn't entirely circumstantial and relatively weak. I think the fans want this and it may or may not have been the writers intention. OK, so the main justification for this can be two fold. Liara may wish to preserve Shepard in some way in case he or she doesn't return from the mission. Sounds reasonable. Shepard may have even asked for this in LOtSB in which Shepard can comment on wanting marriage, old age and lots of little blue children. It's actually one of the more touching scenes and bits of dialog in the whole thing and even shows a playful aspect of Liara's personality we've not really seen before in which she playfully hits Shepard and says: "You just say these things" or something like that.
Now keep in mind that even for the faithful, Liara has always respected Shepards ability to choose. In fact she has on 4 occasions given Shepard an opportunity to back out of the relationship and go his or her separate way. So, Liara respects Shepard enough or is rather at least smart enough not to presume anything and always makes sure that she's still wanted by Shepard. You can crush her and hurt her feelings in any number of ways and she always seems to brace for it, but she checks because she's smart and I think out of respect. She doesn't want to misread Shepard at any point admitting her limited social experience causes her some issues, especially with humans. I also feel she does this so as not to make Shepard feel trapped or boxed in by those choices. Part of this is more of a game mechanic than anything but hey it makes sense.
Alright, the fact that she checks constantly to ensure Shepard still wants her may boil down to simple insecurity. I won't argue that point. It may also indicate that she is just intelligent and again respects Shepard's choices. She doesn't presume to know what Shepard is thinking at any time in the series and even on things not related to the romance, always asks Shepard how he or she feels about anything. In ME3 she has learned to read Shep a bit and knows when there is more going on in Shep's head. OK. So we've established that she doesn't presume anything with Shepard. This is key to my point. She even double checks inspite of Shepard showing continued interest and feelings for her with actions like on the Mars mission and upon returning to the Normandy and again on the Citadel. That's just in ME3 alone. If your paragon, faithful to Liara etc. she never has any reason other than time in between encounters to doubt that Shepard still feels the same way about her. Yet she always verifies. So why would she not do this with regard to having Shepard's kid? This is presuming that Maiden's can even have kids. I don't know when they reach sexual maturity but Liara is quite young. Probably not any different than an 11 year old human girl having kids, but we don't know. But let's say she can biologically speaking. She's just going to get pregnant, hide this from Shepard and even worse risk this act being all for nothing by risking getting killed as a potential squad mate for the final mission? If the writers actually do this I'm going to call bull**** on this decision. Not because I don't want to see that, but because doing it in the manner that we've seen so far is ham-fisted and bad.
Now we know this melding is different. We see it, and Shepard's reaction as well as her description of the "gift" tell us this isn't like the normal melds she's done with him or her previously. I think this is why people think she may have gotten pregnant by Shepard. One could argue that it's no different than a human couple having sex without protection and BAM by "accident" there is a kid 9 months later. People don't usually cry rape in this scenario. Many don't think anything but "oh crap what am I going to do with a kid?" This shouldn't be a normal thought process and really is an act of stupidity and lack of foreknowledge of the consequences that any 5th grade biology class prepares you for. Liara is not this stupid and I don't think she would take it upon herself to do this without asking Shepard first. She practically threw herself on her sword with regard to giving Shepard's body to Cerberus. Given how this effected her, making unilateral decisions for Shepard's future seems to disturb her a gread deal. It clearly weighs heavily on her and she shows genuine relief if you thank her, and she feels worse and gets more upset if you berate her decision.
Now physical sex is one thing, but it seems clear that Shepard may not really entirely understand what just happened or at least not understand the consequences of doing it. She does not tell him or her that the gift would get her pregnant. She never even implies this. For the sake of this argument we'll go with Paragon Shepard said he or she wanted marriage, old age, and lots of little blue children and Liara is just going to use that as permission to do as she pleases. It seems out of character for her to do this, but under the circumstances and given the state of the galaxy, her clear inability to let Shepard go to the point of codependancy issues, let's go with that.
Alright. Well what about the people who hate Liara, but did give into the melding or even those who liked her but didn't romance her? Obivously this is a moot point if you didn't accept the "gift." But let's say Shepard did accept the gift. Hey it's the last game, I may not like her but let's see where this goes? Technically, what Liara does could amount to rape if it produces a child. Asari often raise their daughters alone as their chosen bond mates rarely live as long as they do. So they accept this socially, but I don't think Asari go around knocking themselves up as a general rule. Now obviously an ending without little blue children invalidates this whole section of the post. That's certainly a strong possibility. Honestly on one hand I hope for a future for Shepard which involves little blue children, but once I started thinking about it, her behavior should she get pregnant actually could amount to rape. If this happens I don't think I'll like Liara any less, but I will be pissed at the writers for not handling it better.
Thoughts? Seems ludicrous to me.
OK so the more I think about Mass Effect 3 the more I hate it. I'm still fine with about 94% of the game. It's the last mission which I can't stand, but of course the endings are the kicker. We all know that so I won't delve too deeply into the issue.
Genocide / Mass Rape / Violation of Rights and Liberty
Control
So essentially Shepard's choice here is to enslave the Reapers or at least force them to follow his wishes. Force them to conform and bend to his or her will. I'm not sure what I find more appaling. The fact that the game's solution is to grab some electrical pipes and think magic happy thoughts or the fact that it endorses slavery and compuslory servitude as a means of viable self-defense. Yeah slavery is bad, but OK if it's done in self-defense right? Got it.
Synthesis
So this one endorses what amounts to DNA / genetic rape of the whole galaxy at once. You can attempt to justify this as the next step in evolution or whatever. The fact is that compelling people to bend to your will and force changes in their very DNA and physiology amounts to galactic rape. Not quite genocide, at least not until the mass suicides start and believe me, people all of the sudden seeing bioluminescent trace paths in their skin will probably kill themselves rather than get assimilited.
Destroy
So the Starchild is a liar but this choice is presented as kill EDI, possibly the Quarians and definately kill yourself and the Geth. Fantastic so we commit genocide on a galactic scale. So Shepard is basically turned into a moron (who questions nothing) and a genocidal maniac with a god complex. Excellent. Moving on. The Emporer, Megatron, Cobra Commander, the Joker, and pretty much all comic and cartoon villians would be so proud.
So yeah umm..... Liara might be a rapist?
I want to start off and say that I like Liara a lot. Probably a little more than is healthy. To call her my favorite romance option is an understatement. I just wanted you to know that what I'm about to say isn't because I hate Liara. Far from it. It's the fact that the writers abandoned consistency with this character at the end which bothers me. Not to say that Liara was always consistent in her portrayal. She wasn't. She changes and grows and sometimes not for reasons we understand at the time. But with a little digging, we find that she always has a reason or a strong justification for anything she's done up until this. The worst part is this change is so sublte, you may not even notice it at first.
Marriage, old age and lots of little blue children
So alot of fans are conjecturing that Liara might have melded with Shepard in such a way as to get herself pregnant and produce little mini-Blue AsariFemSheps. Cute on the surface. Hell paragon Shep can even ask for this in ME2. This seems extremely unlikely and incongruent to me. Obviously the title of this section is sensationlist attention whoring so I won't even try to deny that the evidence pointing to Liara doing this isn't entirely circumstantial and relatively weak. I think the fans want this and it may or may not have been the writers intention. OK, so the main justification for this can be two fold. Liara may wish to preserve Shepard in some way in case he or she doesn't return from the mission. Sounds reasonable. Shepard may have even asked for this in LOtSB in which Shepard can comment on wanting marriage, old age and lots of little blue children. It's actually one of the more touching scenes and bits of dialog in the whole thing and even shows a playful aspect of Liara's personality we've not really seen before in which she playfully hits Shepard and says: "You just say these things" or something like that.
Now keep in mind that even for the faithful, Liara has always respected Shepards ability to choose. In fact she has on 4 occasions given Shepard an opportunity to back out of the relationship and go his or her separate way. So, Liara respects Shepard enough or is rather at least smart enough not to presume anything and always makes sure that she's still wanted by Shepard. You can crush her and hurt her feelings in any number of ways and she always seems to brace for it, but she checks because she's smart and I think out of respect. She doesn't want to misread Shepard at any point admitting her limited social experience causes her some issues, especially with humans. I also feel she does this so as not to make Shepard feel trapped or boxed in by those choices. Part of this is more of a game mechanic than anything but hey it makes sense.
Alright, the fact that she checks constantly to ensure Shepard still wants her may boil down to simple insecurity. I won't argue that point. It may also indicate that she is just intelligent and again respects Shepard's choices. She doesn't presume to know what Shepard is thinking at any time in the series and even on things not related to the romance, always asks Shepard how he or she feels about anything. In ME3 she has learned to read Shep a bit and knows when there is more going on in Shep's head. OK. So we've established that she doesn't presume anything with Shepard. This is key to my point. She even double checks inspite of Shepard showing continued interest and feelings for her with actions like on the Mars mission and upon returning to the Normandy and again on the Citadel. That's just in ME3 alone. If your paragon, faithful to Liara etc. she never has any reason other than time in between encounters to doubt that Shepard still feels the same way about her. Yet she always verifies. So why would she not do this with regard to having Shepard's kid? This is presuming that Maiden's can even have kids. I don't know when they reach sexual maturity but Liara is quite young. Probably not any different than an 11 year old human girl having kids, but we don't know. But let's say she can biologically speaking. She's just going to get pregnant, hide this from Shepard and even worse risk this act being all for nothing by risking getting killed as a potential squad mate for the final mission? If the writers actually do this I'm going to call bull**** on this decision. Not because I don't want to see that, but because doing it in the manner that we've seen so far is ham-fisted and bad.
Now we know this melding is different. We see it, and Shepard's reaction as well as her description of the "gift" tell us this isn't like the normal melds she's done with him or her previously. I think this is why people think she may have gotten pregnant by Shepard. One could argue that it's no different than a human couple having sex without protection and BAM by "accident" there is a kid 9 months later. People don't usually cry rape in this scenario. Many don't think anything but "oh crap what am I going to do with a kid?" This shouldn't be a normal thought process and really is an act of stupidity and lack of foreknowledge of the consequences that any 5th grade biology class prepares you for. Liara is not this stupid and I don't think she would take it upon herself to do this without asking Shepard first. She practically threw herself on her sword with regard to giving Shepard's body to Cerberus. Given how this effected her, making unilateral decisions for Shepard's future seems to disturb her a gread deal. It clearly weighs heavily on her and she shows genuine relief if you thank her, and she feels worse and gets more upset if you berate her decision.
Now physical sex is one thing, but it seems clear that Shepard may not really entirely understand what just happened or at least not understand the consequences of doing it. She does not tell him or her that the gift would get her pregnant. She never even implies this. For the sake of this argument we'll go with Paragon Shepard said he or she wanted marriage, old age, and lots of little blue children and Liara is just going to use that as permission to do as she pleases. It seems out of character for her to do this, but under the circumstances and given the state of the galaxy, her clear inability to let Shepard go to the point of codependancy issues, let's go with that.
Alright. Well what about the people who hate Liara, but did give into the melding or even those who liked her but didn't romance her? Obivously this is a moot point if you didn't accept the "gift." But let's say Shepard did accept the gift. Hey it's the last game, I may not like her but let's see where this goes? Technically, what Liara does could amount to rape if it produces a child. Asari often raise their daughters alone as their chosen bond mates rarely live as long as they do. So they accept this socially, but I don't think Asari go around knocking themselves up as a general rule. Now obviously an ending without little blue children invalidates this whole section of the post. That's certainly a strong possibility. Honestly on one hand I hope for a future for Shepard which involves little blue children, but once I started thinking about it, her behavior should she get pregnant actually could amount to rape. If this happens I don't think I'll like Liara any less, but I will be pissed at the writers for not handling it better.
Thoughts? Seems ludicrous to me.
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I think rape is a stretch. Does she give Shepard the "gift" if she's not the love interest? If she does then MAYBE I could get there but if theyre bumping uglys then her getting pregnant wouldnt be any different than any other dude knocking up a chick.
Myself, I dont think the "gift" was anything to get pregnant. She explains in ME1 that their reproductive "thing" or whatever they do is amazing and mind blowing. That gift at the end was anything but. I took her explanation in ME1 to mean they have to have a more drawn out, intimate coupling so to speak in order to get knocked up. I took the gift just as Liara said it was - her sharing her memories with her mate. Since Shepard and Liara hook up before the last mission, that would be where I would see her getting pregnant if little blue fem-Sheps show up in the ending DLC.
I think slavery is a pretty big reach too. Youve got a race of machines that are wiping out all life in the galaxy. Taking control of them and ordering them to leave is not slavery. Ill even go a step further and say you actually did order them onto a plantation to pick cotton, Id still say thats ok since they were one step away from wiping out all organic life in the galaxy for the humpteenth time. Mass murders on a galactic scale for millions of years, thats not slavery - thats just a life sentence in Leavenworth at hard labor.
Im totally with ya on the synthesis being a rape of sorts. Here I am sitting here minding my own business when this big blue blob (or was it the green one) washes over me and now Im a Borg?!?!?
Yeah that would be, to me, the worst possible ending and the biggest douchebag way to go about it. And considering that its WHAT THE REAPERS WANT TO DO ANYWAY, it cant be a good thing. I cant imagine how they would show that in anyway remotely positive. Everybody is half human and half machine. But if thats the case, why werent the members of the Normandy affected? They got hit by that wave too so shouldnt they be cyborg? If they outran the wave, then why would EDI have been destroyed in the destroy ending? If the ship outran the wave then it never wouldve killed her. I kinda buy the destroy ending. The AI doesnt mention the Quarians, only the Geth being destroyed. He never says Shepard would also be destroyed although he does imply it by stating that "even you have synthetic parts" or whatever. Destroying the Reapers once in for all and saving all organic life in the galaxy at the cost of the Geth and EDI is not that unacceptable to me.
I think control is the best option myself. Its the only one where you dont destroy the Citadel so even though the Mass Relays are destroyed you still have the Citadel to fall back on. Also, there is a possibility that I thought of today while at work that Shepard ordered the Reapers not to retreat back to wherever but actually ordered them to cease fire and to obey the orders of the council or the alliance or whoever. That way you could have them actually rebuilding the relays since theyre the ones that built them in the first place.
Whadya think?
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I wouldn't overthink liara's "mind bonding" gift, since I doubt those responsible for this concept really put that much effort into it. the player gets no insight whatsoever into what she chooses to share, or any changes to your state of mind as a result. so... I took it as just another spaced out filler cutscene with some pretty colors to stare at. I found her "space capsule archive" gift more meaningful tbh.
the "even you have sythetic parts" line was probably the most amusing to me, since it represents their last bastion of sanity, knowing full well that it would be completely irrelevant in this context. this distinction has zero significance no matter what route you take, since they failed to be specific in any way about what happens to who. yet it had to be said, otherwise leaving that out would be crazy?
the "even you have sythetic parts" line was probably the most amusing to me, since it represents their last bastion of sanity, knowing full well that it would be completely irrelevant in this context. this distinction has zero significance no matter what route you take, since they failed to be specific in any way about what happens to who. yet it had to be said, otherwise leaving that out would be crazy?
I like generating discussion. I don't think it's likely and I actually argue against this assertion made by many of the people on the forum that this is in fact what she did. I guess it's a bit odd since I argued that Shepard gets turned into a genocidal maniac. Though if that conjecture concerning Liara were to be true, then I'd say the writers once again fucked up and handled things poorly.
I think rape is a stretch. Does she give Shepard the "gift" if she's not the love interest? If she does then MAYBE I could get there but if theyre bumping uglys then her getting pregnant wouldnt be any different than any other dude knocking up a chick.
Myself, I dont think the "gift" was anything to get pregnant. She explains in ME1 that their reproductive "thing" or whatever they do is amazing and mind blowing. That gift at the end was anything but. I took her explanation in ME1 to mean they have to have a more drawn out, intimate coupling so to speak in order to get knocked up. I took the gift just as Liara said it was - her sharing her memories with her mate. Since Shepard and Liara hook up before the last mission, that would be where I would see her getting pregnant if little blue fem-Sheps show up in the ending DLC.
I think slavery is a pretty big reach too. Youve got a race of machines that are wiping out all life in the galaxy. Taking control of them and ordering them to leave is not slavery. Ill even go a step further and say you actually did order them onto a plantation to pick cotton, Id still say thats ok since they were one step away from wiping out all organic life in the galaxy for the humpteenth time. Mass murders on a galactic scale for millions of years, thats not slavery - thats just a life sentence in Leavenworth at hard labor.
Im totally with ya on the synthesis being a rape of sorts. Here I am sitting here minding my own business when this big blue blob (or was it the green one) washes over me and now Im a Borg?!?!?
I kinda buy the destroy ending. The AI doesnt mention the Quarians, only the Geth being destroyed. He never says Shepard would also be destroyed although he does imply it by stating that "even you have synthetic parts" or whatever. Destroying the Reapers once in for all and saving all organic life in the galaxy at the cost of the Geth and EDI is not that unacceptable to me.
I think control is the best option myself. Its the only one where you dont destroy the Citadel so even though the Mass Relays are destroyed you still have the Citadel to fall back on. Also, there is a possibility that I thought of today while at work that Shepard ordered the Reapers not to retreat back to wherever but actually ordered them to cease fire and to obey the orders of the council or the alliance or whoever. That way you could have them actually rebuilding the relays since theyre the ones that built them in the first place.
Whadya think?
Rape is a stretch but again I don't think this is actually what she does. If it turns out that this is the case, then again the writer's went full retard. Beyond that I agree with your statements concerning the ending options.