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Mass Effect 3 SPOILERS THREAD
- Thread starter TheOneKnownAsMe
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Play Quarian Infiltrator on Gold against Geth and it's just sickening how much XP you'll get. Geth Pyros are one shot kills if you get them in their tanks. Hacked rocket troopers do plenty of damage to other Geth. Geth Prime are just a few headshots. HOnestly, the worst Geth enemies are the Prime's drones. They're small and easily underestimated, but they still do plenty of damage.
No I didn't get that. It isn't from BioWare and is totally meaningless, although it does prove that virtually anyone can craft a better ending to this awesome franchise and story than BioWare seems to be capable of. Why BioWare didn't go with their original idea is beyond me.
Perhaps, mediocrity isn't the right word. In thinking about this, I'll spell out why this is bullshit. For one thing, it assumes the problems between organics and synthetics has squat to do with their "hardware" and that combining them into something that is philosophically the same thing is the ultimate solution to the problem. It makes a blanket assertion that physical differences are the only reason for such conflicts between organics and synthetics to exist. Fear of the unknown is what started the problem with the Quarians and the Geth. Their hardware had nothing to do with it. And again, once these issues were ironed out, depending on your choices they were able to come together for the greater good. They didn't need to have their physiology marginalized in order to make this happen. It happened because one man/woman cut through the bullshit and got to the heart of the matter.
Also keep in mind that the Geth were apathetic towards organics. They didn't care what happened to them either way. The Geth that followed Saren and Sovereign were different. They attacked because the Reapers told them to. They worshipped the "Old Machines" and did as commanded. Nothing more, nothing less. So again, the problem isn't an issue of being synthetic, vs. organic. It is the motivations of the people that come into play. So long as everyone gets to keep their own individuality and identity, there is always a chance for problems.
The worst part about synthesis is that it robs people of their physical identity by changing them and altering them into a state of being without solicitation. Even if my dick was full of medicine that could cure any disease, you think raping some girl would leave her feeling any less violated or traumatized? Even if it was good for her in the long run, the trauma would remain. Even if the changes are less severe than Shepard's cybernetics, which I doubt given how everyone looks in the synthesis ending, (if they were easily removed then what's the point?) the fact is people will end up traumatized when they see bioluminescent circuitry and trace paths, and a set of Illusive Man's eyes staring back at them in the mirror.
You don't think this would tramautized the entire galaxy? You don't think something like this could lead to mass suicides? Do you think the recently self-aware Geth want organic parts that wear out, age and decompose after a certain period of time? For those who survive, and given the nature of most people and the races in the Mass Effect universe, I don't think this would bring understanding, but rather it would start the blame game. Who's fucking fault is this? Oh yeah, that Shepard guy. He was a human so let's kill humans!
Maybe, maybe not. Either way, people won't be thinking straight, because they will all be horrified, traumatized, and end up feeling like this was done to them. Even if it doesn't look so gross.
It's taking violation of civil rights, violation of mind, body and soul to a new level never previously attained in any fiction to date. Still feel like you did the galaxy some kind of favor? If so then there is no reasoning with you.
Now this I agree with. I think BioWare being vague, either out of choice or due to being short on time and money may have had vastly different intentions when they added this lame duck ending to the game. But I don't see how clarification will help it seem like anything less than the worst war crime I can think of.
So another game company ripped off the ending to Star Trek the Motion Picture? I'm a huge Star Trek fan and even I don't like that movie.
The problem is, unless you discuss it with everyone in the galaxy first, you won't know. And frankly, it's wrong to force this type of change down someone's throat especially with all the unknowns. Especially since Shepard asks no questions about this.
That's exactly what it was a response to. And really, I don't see much difference. There are a few things you have to understand, which all get back to the original dark energy idea, and why Reapers are made the way they are. Additionally, you also have to understand that the races of the galaxy have a genetic memory. The Asari are the only species that can see it in others that can't see it in themselves. The Rachni for example can read their own genetic memory, but humans can't. Reapers can and do. They distill the qualities of a species into a Reaper in the most literal and basic way. A Reaper preserves the essence of a species.
Getting back on track, the point is that people don't want their form altered without at least being asked. Just like I don't want my ears pierced, my head shaved, tattoos being placed on me, or two arms added to my upper body without my knowledge and express permission. I don't give two squirts of piss if anyone else things its a good idea or not. This is the very point. In that regard, being ground into meat paste to make a Reaper, or turned into Tron-Cyborg looking things might as well be the same damned thing. It's unsolicited alteration of our form. Screw that.
I don't care what problems you think it will solve. The trauma inflicted and the damage done psychologically to everyone isn't worth the price and isn't a solution. It's just another horrific set of problems. And again I challenge the assumption that this is the root problem between synthetics and organics as we've seen that this is neither the problem or a necessary solution in the game PRIOR to that point.
It's a solution in search of a problem. It's also a flawed idea and just a horrible choice as I've outlined above.
I think the implications of how horrible this is, and what such a choice represents is beyond salvaging through clarification.
Maplehamwich
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In regards to the fan made trailer posted by Kotaku.
http://kotaku.com/5900629/alternative-mass-effect-3-launch-trailer-is-better-than-the-official-one
The end of the trailer got it right.
Mass Effect 3: Stand Alone
- Run to the final fight by yourself, as the forces you worked to unite throughout the entirety of the series sit and watch.
http://kotaku.com/5900629/alternative-mass-effect-3-launch-trailer-is-better-than-the-official-one
The end of the trailer got it right.
Mass Effect 3: Stand Alone
- Run to the final fight by yourself, as the forces you worked to unite throughout the entirety of the series sit and watch.
This was really cool to watch. I don't necessarily agree with the speech given by Harbinger (?) in the beginning as the Reapers don't see themselves as really destroying life, rather harvesting it for a good purpose.
That trailer is actually really badass though. I always thought ME3 had the worst launch trailer of the series. Not that it was bad, but the other two games did it better.
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Dan_D said:
Has their been a leak of BioWare's originally intended ending? I Googled it but didn't find anything and these threads are way too long to go back and read.
Maplehamwich
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They had a pretty good arc starting in ME1 and carried over into ME2. They intended a certain type of ending, but obviously it wasn't super detailed at that point.
-SourceWords Attributed to Drew Karpyshyn said:
Yes. Take this for what it's worth. This is what I've managed to peace together from vids of people talking about it and things I've read here and there. I've never been able to find the actual leaked script. I avoided grabbing it when it hit the web because I didn't want anything spoiled. I never imagined I'd regret that decision.
Anyway, here it goes as I understand it. Obviously there is a degree of probable error here, and others who read it may know more than me, so anyone who does should feel free to step in and correct me.
The original plot centered around dark energy. There is a codex entry about it in ME1 and you can visit the system where Haestrom is, but you can only scan planets in the system. You can't actually land on Haestrom or anything like that. In Mass Effect 2 we find out that a lot of stars are aging prematurely and again, this is due to dark energy. Keep in mind that all mass effect technology manipulates dark energy to form mass effect fields. This even includes the Reapers themselves who have mass effect cores and use such fields for kinetic barriers, and even their own weapons. FTL travel outside of relays requires their own mass effect cores to operate etc.
OK, so the way it works is this. The Reapers, despite hibernating in dark space, really can't go anywhere else either because travel between galaxies is beyond their ability either as they need relays to move anywhere quickly just like we do. So the dark energy problem effects them as well. So in essence, they are trying to solve the dark energy problem. The issue is, that they don't know how to do it.
Now here is the point I'm unclear on, so there is a bit more speculation here than I'd like. When races in the galaxy start to use Mass Effect technology to a large degree, it compounds the problem by accelerating the effect. Afterall dark energy is the problem and mass effect technology manipulates it. By the Reapers hanging outside the galaxy, and sleeping most of the time, they minimize their own impact on the ecosystem of the galaxy. When enough time has passed and races in the galaxy start to use this technology to a large degree, they cull them in order to reduce the negative impact on the galaxy from it's use. This saves the galaxy from further harm and in the long run, may save many, many, more lives than it takes.
Now, I'm not sure if the Reapers let civilizations advance in the hopes that they'll detect the problem and try and do something about it or not. But keep in mind that races in Mass Effect, from Human to Asari all have a genetic memory. Liara mentions this in Mass Effect 1, as does the Rachni Queen. What this genetic memory contains is really not known. For the Rachni, it's literal. Much like the Goa'uld in Stargate SG-1. They pass down almost everything. For humans, we know we have at least instinctual programing in our makeup. It is this diversity that Asari like. Asari children are always Asari, but they do incorporate that genetic diversity, or at least the memory part of it into their children to further the species as a whole. They don't delve too much into this. But understanding this is key to understanding the Reapers.
The Reapers cull entire civilizations and preserve their very essence in Reaper form. So each race supposedly gives rise to a new Reaper. This is why grinding up humans into meat paste makes sense. Now why they decided on a human form Reaper for humankind rather than the traditional form is unknown. The fact that the eyes are more like the Protheans may either indicate that it was to be a Prothean Reaper at one point, or that the design was only to vaguely resemble humans and the finished product would be more Reaper like when done. Afterall, other Reapers have many sets of eyes like Protheans. But by meaking people into Reaper shells, the essence, and even the knowledge of a race is preserved. EDI is quick in ME2 to point out that Reapers are not purely synthetic and are technorganic sapient constructs.
Now getting back to what was clearer to me, the Reapers see the diversity of humans, which Mordin is quick to mention often, and see something specific in Shepard. In fact it may be that Shepard drew their attention more. The Illusive Man even states this could be responsible for their change in behavior. This is why they began abducting humans by the thousands. Part of the rest of the story is that Sovereign wanted to started culling earlier than usual, but the Prothean machinations and sabotage of the Citadel made this impossible. This results in lost time and desparation on the part of the Reapers. Which is why they accelerate their plans in ME2. They are already well behind schedule in ME3. At any rate, their hope is that humanity is the key they've been looking for in solving this problem and by harvesting humanity and completing a human Reaper, they hope it can solve the dark energy problem.
So when the Reapers talk about being everyone's salvation, not destruction, it starts to make more sense. It also adds context to a lot of things and makes the story more coherant. It also explains their motivations, paints them as being less evil, and even explains Harbinger's fascination with Shepard. Even down to why they want his physical body.
Supposedly there were two interesting twists here. Apparently Harbinger was the original Reaper, constructed by the actual people who built the Mass Relays and the Citadel. They essentially turned themselves into the Reaper to preserve their own race and solve the problem. The game was supposed to offer two choices at the end. Either say "screw you" and destroy the Reapers, opting to use your united galactic community to hopefully solve the problem one day, or to sacrifice humanity to make the human Reaper in the hopes that it could save everyone.
Now again this is my interpretation of what I've come to learn about the original story line. I'm not sure how accurate it is. But that's the basic gist of it. Why they went with this Catalyst starchild bullshit is beyond me. About the only way I can make sense of that is by hoping the indoctrination theory turns out to be true and BioWare is going to go back on their promise of it being Shepard's last game and stretch things into a fourth game. I'd honestly be fine with that. Virtually anything would be better than what we got in the end. Still I think the original idea would have been brilliant if handled right. And everything about the first two games and 95% of the third game tells me they could have. I'm not really sure why they decided to go with this psuedo intellectual and philosophical nonsense about synthetics vs. organics when the third game's own plot points prove this notion to be complete bullshit.
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The problem with 'original ideas' from a writer that left is that it's easy to type out a few paragraphs of a proposed ending that might be better. and for a professional writer it's probably easy to put it in a way that appeals to players who are disappointed with the ending of a game that you used to write for. the thing is he left. so whatever his original ideas were, well you lost the ability to complain about where the game went when you started working on TOR. maybe you could say that you were pushed out because you didn't agree with the other writers, or whatever, but complaining after the fact is like Donovan McNabb saying that Robert Griffin III is going to struggle in Washington after he got cut.
I'm sure that if you were to read the actual ending, summed up into a few paragraphs by a writer, that it might not sound as bad as it turned out in the game. i'm sure they could spin it however they wanted with such a paraphrasing.
my issue though, is that the game is out, the book is written the tv show has aired...the ending sucks, we should move on. i know, i know, it's awful, and to complain is fine, but to demand a new ending is setting a bad precedent. should we have demanded a remake of the last episode of Seinfeld/Soprano's etc? a remake of Blade Trinity? i say we swallow the hard pill: that they put out a weak ending and move on, hope for, i don't know, a reboot of the series? prequels? sequels? something to get back the momentum and move on, further develop an awesome universe they created.
they're releasing an extended cut, at what cost? it's free, that's not what i mean. i have to wait longer fr DLC, for whatever they were planning on releasing next, in order to get a few cut scenes that won't save the ending. even if they redid it and used the Indoctrination Theory, or added the Dark Matter, or whatever, people will complain because now they gotten an inch. "well if they made that change, they can make another. or they should have made this change, or that change." even now i'm listening and there's no one ending that people would like. and if there was? we're going user generated content now? and expecting them to make a game based on an ending that fans created? i don't like that idea.
instead create more DLC. A story that involves another dead reaper, or another partially formed one that died because of dark matter, or whatever else the next threat is. make it like the Shadow Broker DLC, nice and long an involved, and use it to setup the next game, or trilogy or whatever.
sooner or later every story has to end, and lets be honest: most don't end well. Babylon 5 had a bad last season, but i remember the first 4 seasons, just like i remember the body of the game of mass effect 3 and 2 and 1. some of the best i've ever played.
do i wish the ending was done better? hells yes. i wanted space battles, ground war, slow motion, explosions, everything. but the ending came out, and it was disappointing. i don't want other studios to scramble on a game, release it and then patch up the ending. once it's out and it's bad, it's done.
just my .02
I'm sure that if you were to read the actual ending, summed up into a few paragraphs by a writer, that it might not sound as bad as it turned out in the game. i'm sure they could spin it however they wanted with such a paraphrasing.
my issue though, is that the game is out, the book is written the tv show has aired...the ending sucks, we should move on. i know, i know, it's awful, and to complain is fine, but to demand a new ending is setting a bad precedent. should we have demanded a remake of the last episode of Seinfeld/Soprano's etc? a remake of Blade Trinity? i say we swallow the hard pill: that they put out a weak ending and move on, hope for, i don't know, a reboot of the series? prequels? sequels? something to get back the momentum and move on, further develop an awesome universe they created.
they're releasing an extended cut, at what cost? it's free, that's not what i mean. i have to wait longer fr DLC, for whatever they were planning on releasing next, in order to get a few cut scenes that won't save the ending. even if they redid it and used the Indoctrination Theory, or added the Dark Matter, or whatever, people will complain because now they gotten an inch. "well if they made that change, they can make another. or they should have made this change, or that change." even now i'm listening and there's no one ending that people would like. and if there was? we're going user generated content now? and expecting them to make a game based on an ending that fans created? i don't like that idea.
instead create more DLC. A story that involves another dead reaper, or another partially formed one that died because of dark matter, or whatever else the next threat is. make it like the Shadow Broker DLC, nice and long an involved, and use it to setup the next game, or trilogy or whatever.
sooner or later every story has to end, and lets be honest: most don't end well. Babylon 5 had a bad last season, but i remember the first 4 seasons, just like i remember the body of the game of mass effect 3 and 2 and 1. some of the best i've ever played.
do i wish the ending was done better? hells yes. i wanted space battles, ground war, slow motion, explosions, everything. but the ending came out, and it was disappointing. i don't want other studios to scramble on a game, release it and then patch up the ending. once it's out and it's bad, it's done.
just my .02
It is not bad precident to demand better quality endings to the games and shows we like. The thing about shows is once they are done they are done. They get cancelled for a reason. Usually because the ratings dropped. For games, things are different. They are interactive. Games also have a more dynamic nature in that they can continue to evolve long after release.
Counterstrike is barely recognizable compared to it's days as a mod. The core of what made it good (if you like that sort of thing) is still there. Adding more, or tweaking doesn't hurt the artistic integrity of the thing so long as it's handled right. It is time we stopped rolling over and accepting shitty endings to games. It's bad enough most games have shitty stories to begin with. Mass Effect was awesome up until the last few minutes story wise. (The ending mission sucked, but that's another topic.) Why not demand a do over on that? They released something well below expectations and requiring something be done to satisfy us as paying customers isn't necessarily a bad thing.
And why not? It's accepted practice when people get poor products and services from retailers. Why not with this?
Counterstrike is barely recognizable compared to it's days as a mod. The core of what made it good (if you like that sort of thing) is still there. Adding more, or tweaking doesn't hurt the artistic integrity of the thing so long as it's handled right. It is time we stopped rolling over and accepting shitty endings to games. It's bad enough most games have shitty stories to begin with. Mass Effect was awesome up until the last few minutes story wise. (The ending mission sucked, but that's another topic.) Why not demand a do over on that? They released something well below expectations and requiring something be done to satisfy us as paying customers isn't necessarily a bad thing.
And why not? It's accepted practice when people get poor products and services from retailers. Why not with this?
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Archengeia covers some of what the original storyline was in his video on ME3. Dan's post seems to be pretty much about the same. It's a good video to watch if you love ME but couldn't stand ME3.
http://youtu.be/HUqAhKW7498
I don't normally sit through long videos of any sort but his ideas and comments kept my attention for the full 30m. He starts into the "original concept" around 3m into it if you want to just get the background story.
Yeah, that's a pretty good video. I'm not sure I agree with him on all his ideas concerning how they could have ended it with the material they have, but I will say it's better than what we've received so far. The bitch of it is, BioWare's clarified ending could actually be slightly different, but radically change our perception of what happened. Then of course they'll say they meant to do it that way all along and this was their true artistic vision or some such crap. They'll never cop to having written a bad ending, or simply dropping the ball on how they delivered that ending. Personally I believe the original idea is a lot better than what we got, and I'm almost positive that what we got was due mainly to budgetary and time constraints. Basically the whole final act is rushed slop because of EA's deadlines. Even though Mass Effect 2 started development prior to Mass Effect 1's release, it still took about 3 years to make delivery on it. Mass Effect 3 is as others put it, substantially shorter than Mass Effect 2. It seems likely they weren't able to do all that EA wanted in the time alloted, even with the initial delay.
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I don't agree with him 100% either, but he makes very logical arguments about some things that I do like. I love his idea for fighting Harbinger on the ground.
In his 3rd video about ME3 he states that at this point he's lost all faith in BW to deliver games like DA:O and ME2 anymore, and I feel the same way myself. DA2 while not awesome, was a step in the wrong direction in my mind, and it was so obviously rushed (as confirmed by one of the music composers in an interview), and it just felt "off" compared to DA:O. After seeing ME3, I have zero faith that they'll make DA3 anything worth even looking at, and I won't believe any of the bullshit marketing promises this time around like I did for ME3. That bit me in the ass so hard I still have scars.
I've been telling people not to load up Origin, not to play MP, not to download anything, free or not for ME3 and basically cut EA off from getting more numbers and data they can use to say "see, people aren't upset, look how many are playing!". Cut them off cold until we see what this "EC" entails.
Personally, I dont see this "EC" solving the problem at all, and the backlash will be even worse I think if they don't deliver this time. Even if they do by some miracle deliver, no one is gonna forget this for a looooong time, and the stain will be on EA/BW for ages.
TwistedAegis
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So beat my 2nd playthrough, with 100% Readiness and a score of 6400. Chose destroy to get the scene in the rubble...and as much as I want to think it confirms indoctrination theory, it doesn't have to. It could just be random and BW being lame.
Control consumes your body. So does synthesis. Destroy doesn't, you shoot out the cylinder. So perhaps randomly you live after crashing down to Earth out of orbit? (You're surrounded by concrete, it can't be the Citadel). Honestly, and sadly, it wouldn't be any more random than anything else about the ending. Like, if synthesis is the ultimate ending that the StarChild really wants - couldn't they just throw any random ass human in there to obtain human DNA and thus begin synthesis??
However, one new thing I noticed - did anyone see the PDA right outside where you talk to Liara to say goodbye? It's a note from someone looking for someone else and ranting a bit about the beam - however the random note basically implies very strongly that if you go up the beam, you become indoctrinated. "You're never the same again, ahh the voices."
Also, I didn't see the messaging station at the end, either, where you could call out to old squadmates who weren't there. That was decent of them. I do have to say that romancing Miranda in ME3 was lame as hell - and I'm surprised that even at the end, if you romanced Ashley in ME1 then spurned her in ME3 and don't convince her to come back, she makes no appearance whatsoever.
Control consumes your body. So does synthesis. Destroy doesn't, you shoot out the cylinder. So perhaps randomly you live after crashing down to Earth out of orbit? (You're surrounded by concrete, it can't be the Citadel). Honestly, and sadly, it wouldn't be any more random than anything else about the ending. Like, if synthesis is the ultimate ending that the StarChild really wants - couldn't they just throw any random ass human in there to obtain human DNA and thus begin synthesis??
However, one new thing I noticed - did anyone see the PDA right outside where you talk to Liara to say goodbye? It's a note from someone looking for someone else and ranting a bit about the beam - however the random note basically implies very strongly that if you go up the beam, you become indoctrinated. "You're never the same again, ahh the voices."
Also, I didn't see the messaging station at the end, either, where you could call out to old squadmates who weren't there. That was decent of them. I do have to say that romancing Miranda in ME3 was lame as hell - and I'm surprised that even at the end, if you romanced Ashley in ME1 then spurned her in ME3 and don't convince her to come back, she makes no appearance whatsoever.
Your surprised? The entire Priority: Earth mission licks goat testicles. Aside from the scene with Liara, I almost universally hate everything about it.
And don't get me started on the SyntheStarTrekTMPSuck ending and why space magic is lame and pulling trace paths out of your vegetables, or getting them stuck in your teeth is total nonsense.
I re-watched the rubble scene a few times and it clearly looks like street rubble which means Shepard's body is on Earth but its too much of a stretch for BW to think we'd really believe he survived the explosion on the Citadel, reentry into the atmosphere and slamming back onto the planet.
What if, and I haven't seen this speculated, the events did play out as shown but Shepard really never left went into the beam. Maybe he didn't need a physical presence to interact with the starchild?
I wouldn't be surprised if BW has been trolling this entire time though and planned ahead on the extended DLC. If that's the case then that's a really terrible way to end the game.
I thought for a while that BioWare may be trolling, but their statements pretty much contradict that thought. I don't doubt that BioWare already has a plan for the next game, though I'm sure it's something that I wont like (MP extravaganza, weak story, short SP campaign on rails, iOS game).
After watching the rubble scene at 19:10 in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythY_GkEBck I'm not so sure he's on Earth. A few people pointed out on the Bioware forums that we're seeing "cables" that appear on the Citadel in this shot instead of rebar. Infact it looks like the cables Legion was attached to when rescued from Reaper control.
Christ I can't believe I'm being this anal about this. I'll go mad before the DLC arrives and I'm sure it will disappoint.
Christ I can't believe I'm being this anal about this. I'll go mad before the DLC arrives and I'm sure it will disappoint.
So you told one of the characters to take a hike and are upset when you don't see them again?
I looked for something specific that would indicate exactly where Shepard was in the rubble scene. It looks to me like Shepard is on Earth in rubble in London. There is some radio chatter you can't make out which sounds alot like the radio chatter heard before going into the beam. Still I suppose it is possible to be on the Citadel. While the Citadel itself isn't made of concrete, many of the structures on it could be. Only the Citadel's main structure is the durable super metal of unknown composition. The stuff built by it's occupants can be a variety of conventional materials.
I don't think cables mean jack squat. There is Reaper tech littering Earth. So that explains cables there. Reaper tech cables seem far less likely on the Citadel. As do concrete and rebar.
Ugh, the endings just don't make any damned sense.
TwistedAegis
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Not upset, just surprised she doesn't make some kind of cameo at the end. It wasn't as if she didn't totally blow you off in ME2, so during the final assault for the lives of every species in the galaxy and with all you went through together in ME1, you'd think even just a quick e-mail or message of good luck, etc, would have come through. Oh well, guess she's just an unforgiving bitch.
Not upset, just surprised she doesn't make some kind of cameo at the end. It wasn't as if she didn't totally blow you off in ME2, so during the final assault for the lives of every species in the galaxy and with all you went through together in ME1, you'd think even just a quick e-mail or message of good luck, etc, would have come through. Oh well, guess she's just an unforgiving bitch.
I liked her in ME1 despite her being racist and a bit like a high school girl with a crush. Though with Shepard's urgings she calms down a lot with regard to her racism. In any case I'm glad I went with Liara, because Ashley is a huge bitch in ME2 and thinks an apology is all that's needed to move on. Then in ME3 I got sick of her questioning Shepard's loyalty constantly. Then she wants a shoulder to cry on when her sister's husband croaks?
If paragon Shepard is far more of a friend than she deserves. If you romanced her it's even worse because she'll get pissed off if you romanced someone else in ME2, despite it being pretty clear on Horizon that she's done with Shepard. If you "worked things out with a lot of people" as she put it in one of my playthroughs, then the romance is toast. Good god she's just hard as hell to please. Sometimes I regret leaving Kaiden Onasi on Virmire and rescuing her instead.
Monkey God
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Don't fall into a black hole of over analysis of images and objects in the game. You'd be surprised how much stuff gets reused over and over again. Artist time, rendering time, all that costs money. If they could cut corners on the story dont think for a second they wouldn't cut corners on FX budgets.
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I prefer Kaiden over Ashley. She bit the dust on Virmire for being an extremist.
This is good advice given the likelyhood that they cut the ending together extremely fast due to being out of money and time.
Monkey God
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Wise choice. I wanted to toss that bitch over the ledge numerous times in ME3.
You do realize that you can shoot her yourself in ME3 right?
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Im starting a playthru of all 3 games with a renegade fem-Shep and I think I might let Ashley burn on Virmire. I always kept her cause of that sweet ass but gawdamighty is she an annoying bitch. And that whole poetry crap is just creepy not to mention the fact that she calls you a traitor in 2 and spends all of 3 questioning your loyalty. Think this time I'll go with Kaiden. Hell maybe he'll have some cool dialogue or something. I don't know cause he always dies quicker than the random away team member in Star Trek in all my playthru's.
In all my playthrough's Kaiden never leaves Virmire. So beyond ME1, I haven't ever heard any of his dialog.
TwistedAegis
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2009
- Messages
- 8,958
I liked her in ME1 despite her being racist and a bit like a high school girl with a crush. Though with Shepard's urgings she calms down a lot with regard to her racism. In any case I'm glad I went with Liara, because Ashley is a huge bitch in ME2 and thinks an apology is all that's needed to move on. Then in ME3 I got sick of her questioning Shepard's loyalty constantly. Then she wants a shoulder to cry on when her sister's husband croaks?
Yeah, after ME3 I really feel like I dropped the ball not going with Liara from the beginning.
Same for me. If I do another ME3 playthrough I think I'll mod my savefile so Ashley's dead and Kaiden's alive. Ashley's just so annoying and worthless. I did enjoy the scene with her and Liara in ME1 when she storms out when I asked why I had to pick between them and couldn't have both.
I wonder if the bug with Ken and Gabby's been fixed? I'm noticing they're talking now in my second playthrough, but it might be because Ash considers my Shep a friend this playthrough. (I was poor in my first playthrough and didn't get her a gift while she was in the hospital.) (For those that don't know, there's a bug that keeps Ken and Gabby from doing much if Ash isn't Shep's "friend".)
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I played through the games enough time to have romanced a lot of the different characters. Liara's romance arc is the best by FAR. You get a longer scene with her in ME1. Though you don't see her much in ME2 overall, she greets Shepard with a kiss and actually talks to Shepard without being hostile. Unlike some others........cough Ashley/Kaiden.....cough. If you downloaded the Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC, then of course you get a really long mission with her combined with an awesome story arc, and again you can reaffirm the relationship. If you invite her to the Normandy, then you get it on without much fanfare or a decent scene. Still, it's better than what you get with Ashley. And none of this really precludes getting with someone else in ME2 really.
If you do, in ME3 Liara will ask if that relationship is behind you or if she needs to move on. If you tell her it's behind you, then Shepard and Liara get back together without any problem. From the dialog, I gathered that she takes some responsibility for not having been there for Shepard in ME2. She confirms this later on when she talks to Shepard about his/her entry in the record / time capsule things she's seeding on several worlds. IF you'll recall whether you romanced her or not, Liara has a thing for Shepard from the very start. IF you confirm another relationship, she admits she has feelings for you but won't pursue the matter any further. However, regardless of whether or not Shepard romanced her, Liara cares deeply enough for Shepard and wouldn't let him/her go. This led to the recovery of Shepard's body. She reluctantly gives it to Cerberus so they can bring him back. She of course knows this is a long shot but takes the chance anyway.
She even appologizes for this and deeply fears Shepard not forgiving her for what she felt she had to do. Of course the game lets you thank her or berate her for your choice. It doesn't matter either way other than berating her upsets her further. Liara even keeps your armor or parts of it in her apartment in a memorial. She also brings you back your original dog tags. In ME3, she actually acts like a girlfriend if you continue the romance. She'll sit in Shepard's lap and kiss Shep etc. You also get the best sex scene with her in ME3. Her good bye scene is also different and more personal if you romanced her. Basically there is a lot of great content with her assuming you actually like the character. Some people don't.
You still see the awkward nerdy girl from the first game in ME2 and ME3, but she's also done a lot of hard living since the Normandy's destruction and it shows in her personality at times.
In contrast....................................
Ashley's just a bitch in ME2 and calls you a traitor and bitches at you for not calling. (Being dead kind of makes communicating hard.) Then all she does is question your loyalty in ME3, while being all needy at the same time. Everything is done on her terms and you just have to put up with her shit. And if you romance Liara starting in ME3, she still harbors those feelings for Shepard and practically jumps at the chance to be more than friends. Ashley on the other hand is a ton of work to romance. And again you put up with distrust and tons of crap.
With the exception of Tali and Garrus, the ME2 romances carried over in ME3 are pretty damned lame. Really your best bet is to carry over from ME1 unless you like Garrus or Tali in which case that's a good route to go through as well. I thought they did a great job on the ME1 romances and carrying them over, paying for your mistakes (IE cheating excessively) and again two ME2 romances, basically squad mates in ME3 are handled well. But everyone else from Miranda, to Thane, Jacob, Kelly, etc. are all just lame kind of add ons. It feels like they were all after thoughts. Kelly is one of the worst. You essentially get to do her in a sleezy cargo container in the docks, but you don't see anything. And then she literally disappears and either you find out she ran and got away in which case you never see her again. Or Cerberus found her and shot her in the head, or she commited suicide via a cyanide pill.
WTF?
I really kept Ashley alive in ME1 because it was easier to build saves off that which I could use for other playthroughs of the game. Some in which I went for her or Liara. Now I'm thinking she might need to die on Virmire and just leave it as a non-issue. I definitely will go that route with a FemShep sometime. Mainly because Kaiden is a character I've never really delt with because he was limited to ME1 for me at least.
Same for me. If I do another ME3 playthrough I think I'll mod my savefile so Ashley's dead and Kaiden's alive. Ashley's just so annoying and worthless. I did enjoy the scene with her and Liara in ME1 when she storms out when I asked why I had to pick between them and couldn't have both.
I wonder if the bug with Ken and Gabby's been fixed? I'm noticing they're talking now in my second playthrough, but it might be because Ash considers my Shep a friend this playthrough. (I was poor in my first playthrough and didn't get her a gift while she was in the hospital.) (For those that don't know, there's a bug that keeps Ken and Gabby from doing much if Ash isn't Shep's "friend".)
That is a funny scene in ME1. Though I never actually did that myself. I always ended things with Ashley quickly if I triggered her romance sub-plot by accident. (Which I almost always seem to do.)
I hadn't heard about that bug. I didn't buy shit for Ashley in my first two ME2 playthroughs and Ken and Gabby were fine. They talked like normal. In my third playthrough I actually romanced Ashley and bought her something but she hates me anyway. When I told her I wanted to work things out with her she said; "I hear you worked things out with a lot of people." Her dialog is particularly hostile in some points. I had to use charm options to get her onboard the Normandy in ME3. It was that bad.
As for being useful, Ashley is one of my favorite squad members. I use Liara for her biotics and Ashley does far more damage than anyone else in the game save for Shepard. She's your strongest DPS character by a wide margin. Her abilities are particularly well suited for guns like the M-76 Revenant and she can clean house in all her appearances. I have Javik and Liara, or Wrex and Liara in ME3 and ME1 respectively. I've always felt Kaiden was the most useless squad member.
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- Joined
- Jul 28, 2009
- Messages
- 8,430
I take a different strategy. I like having a strong biotic like Samara or Jack cause they'll keep enemies occupied til I can get over to them and finish them off then Ill take somebody like Garrus. Im mainly a shooter player so I want to do as much of the killing as possible and I actually found that when using Grunt and Jack for example, I'd be lining up some good sniper shots and by the time I got it, all the other enemies would be killed off. LOL.
So a good biotic will keep them occupied but won't kill them all and somebody like Garrus will do some damage but leave plenty of bad guys for me to kill.
So a good biotic will keep them occupied but won't kill them all and somebody like Garrus will do some damage but leave plenty of bad guys for me to kill.
Gabby and Ken bug: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/344/index/10136642
Gabby and Ken "romance" scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgr5...DvjVQa1PpcFOZs0i87aVS3jEcDYpU8fbq5uTVTXqs4-0=
"To my great sadness and embarrassment, it looks like there is a bug here that got introduced just before ship. It looks like the test for "is it time for ambient dialog in engineering" accidentally got switched to "are you good friends with Ashley". How did this bug happen? I have no idea, and need to do some detective work. This doesn't just block Ken and Gabby banter, but I think this blocks some Tali and Garrus banter in engineering too. As it stands now to see that banter, I believe you'll need to get Ashley in your party and take her on missions and/or give Ashley lots of attention by speaking to her and giving her the gift in the hospital. If you have Kaidan in your game, obviously this can't be done, and that sucks.
Though the fix is easy, the difficult part is getting the fix into a patch of some sort. Getting content fixes into patches is much harder than you'd think. It's a giant process. I'll try to get that fix through, but sadly, the odds of getting this type of fix into a patch is very low. It just kills me that so many of the people who care about Ken and Gabby (those of you reading this forum) didn't get to see that content. I tested the heck out of it too for weeks before ship. You just don't now how sorry I am. "
- Dusty Everman http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/325/index/10147092/2
Gabby and Ken "romance" scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgr5...DvjVQa1PpcFOZs0i87aVS3jEcDYpU8fbq5uTVTXqs4-0=
"To my great sadness and embarrassment, it looks like there is a bug here that got introduced just before ship. It looks like the test for "is it time for ambient dialog in engineering" accidentally got switched to "are you good friends with Ashley". How did this bug happen? I have no idea, and need to do some detective work. This doesn't just block Ken and Gabby banter, but I think this blocks some Tali and Garrus banter in engineering too. As it stands now to see that banter, I believe you'll need to get Ashley in your party and take her on missions and/or give Ashley lots of attention by speaking to her and giving her the gift in the hospital. If you have Kaidan in your game, obviously this can't be done, and that sucks.
Though the fix is easy, the difficult part is getting the fix into a patch of some sort. Getting content fixes into patches is much harder than you'd think. It's a giant process. I'll try to get that fix through, but sadly, the odds of getting this type of fix into a patch is very low. It just kills me that so many of the people who care about Ken and Gabby (those of you reading this forum) didn't get to see that content. I tested the heck out of it too for weeks before ship. You just don't now how sorry I am. "
- Dusty Everman http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/325/index/10147092/2
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Monkey God
Mangina Full of Sand
- Joined
- May 7, 2007
- Messages
- 6,723
Yes, but I wanted to do the *right* thing, thinking that in the end my choices would matter. I was naive. I may play through again, just so I can shoot that bitch in the face.
interesting since my experience has been the complete opposite, I always found kaiden and all techs/biotics way more useful than any weapon specialists (eg. ashley/garrus/james). I guess this would depend completely on play style, like run n gun vs tactical. I've tried playing through with both in my squad, and got him to mop enemies up far more quickly with combos than having ashley taking potshots with the occasional concussive. but I got to admit my approach to this game has always been absolute control over every squad member, I put no faith in the ai at all.
having overload + reave in this game is pretty huge in terms of potential dps and combos, since he is then capable of triggering both tech and biotic explosions in pretty limitless combinations. even on insanity you're instakilling all common mobs in single moves this way, where ashley is limited to cryo explosions only (cryo ammo/blast + concussive, ironically kaiden is the only one here who would make a good match if you don't have either skill). kaiden + tali is absolutely devestating on any geth missions, then switch to kaiden/tali + liara vs cerberus/reapers for the same effect.
also something that really, really bothered me here was ashley's model... am I the only one here who thinks it looks like complete ass? as if they gave the job to some intern and just said "here's her old model, photoshop it into something a bit different/older looking". totally wrecked imo, turned something likable and cute into this hideous looking transvestite monster (no offense). I seriously thought at first there was some in-joke to her past that I was totally missing here...
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