Mass Effect 3 SPOILERS THREAD

[Jellylesg]

it's a mob mentality in my opinion...a few people hate the ending, it starts spreading on forums, Facebook etc and it soon becomes popular to 'hate' the ending versus trying to understand it or appreciate that not everything needs to end on a happy note or with every last small plot line wrapped up

to me BioWare did a great job wrapping up the main stories that I cared about most...yes the ending could have been different but it doesn't take away from the entire Mass Effect series as a whole...the journey is always more important then the destination

I'd ordinarily agree with you since the way groupthink spreads and infects people so easily is clear to see a lot of the time.

But everyone I know who played it and I all insulated ourselves from any coverage of the third game until completion, knowing how fond people are of intentionally spoiling stuff like this - and it's been a big, long story we all enjoyed and were looking forward to concluding.

We also all found it to be phenomenally, spectacularly shitty. For all the reasons others have covered. It's just been a case of vindication to come out of the "no ME3 discussion bubble" to find hundreds of thousands of other players similarly blown away by how godawful it was.

To be honest, I actually tabbed out of the game once the shiny little boy gave me my options, to re-watch just his speech on youtube to make sure I'd heard them all right. I wasn't sure I hadn't mis-heard him say "lol unlucky every choice fucks it all up bye".

 

[J W]

fixed!

I actually initially thought that the ending was a hallucination, which I thought worked. Then I read a statement from BioWare that basically said that no more content would be added after the end in ME3, so I began to have doubts about my first impression. Also, I began to suspect that this creative universe which BioWare imagined was basically blown up for God knows what reason. I was sad.

Where I'm at right now is 1) if the ending is all an illusion then fine, but this means the game is incomplete. If this is the case then I hope that more content will actually be added to the end. I don't care that BioWare's statement was a lie. 2) If the ending isn't an illusion, then I'm completely confused.

Some sort of trauma-induced hallucination was what I thought. However, the indoctrination stuff fits much better, I think.

 

[polonyc2]

To be honest, I actually tabbed out of the game once the shiny little boy gave me my options, to re-watch just his speech on youtube to make sure I'd heard them all right. I wasn't sure I hadn't mis-heard him say "lol unlucky every choice fucks it all up bye".

the only video the people who hate the ending of ME3 need to watch is the video from ME1 and Shep's talk with Sovereign...then go back and replay the end of ME3 and see if it makes more sense

"You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding...There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own you cannot even imagine it, I am beyond your comprehension"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnDp2mWU7ic

 

[TwistedAegis]

the only video the guys who hate the ending of ME3 need to watch is the video from ME1 and Shep's talk with Sovereign...then go back and replay the end of ME3 and see if it makes more sense

"You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding...There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own you cannot even imagine it, I am beyond your comprehension"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnDp2mWU7ic

That's just a weak excuse. So Bioware foists an ending that basically tells us we kill nearly everyone we care about, end the civilations we're trying to save, full of plotholes...but really what it is is that "we're incapable of understanding it"? Bullshit.

Fine, you like the ending, we get it. But to try and lump us all together into groupthink is A) condescending and B)shows you haven't really read all of the posts.

 

[J W]

And another thing, it's blatantly obvious that the ending was rushed and very little time or craftsmanship was involved in creating it. It's just a big middle finger from EA/Bioware.

There's this. Though, the indoctrination thing is pretty dang creative. I don't know if it's fan fiction or not, but the newest youtube video sure makes a convincing case for it.

I haven't really been following this thread, so these might have been posted.

- Colin Moriarty Video IGN (makes my blood boil)
Funny thing about Colin, soon after making this video on ME3's ending, it was discovered that he whined like a little girl on his podcast about the clothing the main character in Infamous 2 was wearing. The company ended up changing said clothing, and Moriarty had absolutely no qualms about artistic integrity then, he even went so far to praise the developer for listening to its fans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqgRP5_YKu0

LOL! Do people generally not like the ending in Rosemary's Baby? There are only two real ways to look at it, and one of them is damn funny.

 

[stewartjm]

the only video the people who hate the ending of ME3 need to watch is the video from ME1 and Shep's talk with Sovereign..

At that point in ME1 Bioware was riffing any of a myriad of science fiction stories about ancient, sentient, galaxy wide killing machines. Most of those stories didn't need to pull a multi-level Deus Ex Machina ending in the last act. They were actually plotted out from the get go, and were much much more satisfying in the end. ME sure "borrows" a lot of ideas from the Revelation Space universe, and it would've been much much better, if only it had borrowed the "ending", or at least the "ending" of it's reaper equivalents.

Bioware had at least one, probably multiple, properly forshadowed plot arcs, one being the dark energy plot. But for some strange reason, it couldn't possibly be an insane deadline, no way, it had to be "the leak". they threw them all out, and wrote something brand new at the last minute, and boy does it show.

Also at that point in ME1 the Reapers were mysterious and foreboding. At the end of ME3, the Reapers are just some other ancient being's pets. Heck they're probably indoctrinated haha haha ha...

 

[TwistedAegis]

Just thought of this - if in the blue child's time he/she/it had witnessed that synthetic life was destined to always destroy organic life - how/when/where did organic life ever come back? Following the logic, at that point in time life should have been purely synthetic. So unless the blue child was a synthetic who chose to wipe out all other synthetic life to allow organics to have a chance again...the universe should have been purely synthetic, which could easily wipe out any organic life prior to its ascension. There was no "cycle" at that point, so there should have been nothing to disrupt the dominance of synthetics and thus nothing to begin the current cycle.

 

[polonyc2]

the guy who did the voice for Sovereign should have voiced all the Reapers...that was one of the best scenes in the entire trilogy...I was expecting 1 final conversation and showdown with the king of Reapers in ME3...that disappointed me...at one point during the final battle it is mentioned that Harbinger and other Reapers are breaking off from the battle and headed to Earth

I thought for sure we were going to have an epic showdown with 2-3 Reapers

 

[Elios]

the guy who did the voice for Sovereign should have voiced all the Reapers...that was one of the best scenes in the entire trilogy...I was expecting 1 final conversation and showdown with the king of Reapers in ME3...that disappointed me...at one point during the final battle it is mentioned that Harbinger and other Reapers are breaking off from the battle and headed to Earth

I thought for sure we were going to have an epic showdown with 2-3 Reapers

no you got your "king of reapers" convo just turned out the king was a hologram of an 8 year old boy....

 

[soulsavior]

it's a mob mentality in my opinion...a few people hate the ending, it starts spreading on forums, Facebook etc and it soon becomes popular to 'hate' the ending versus trying to understand it or appreciate that not everything needs to end on a happy note or with every last small plot line wrapped up

Perhaps for some people, but certainly not for me. After the ending, I was like, "holy crap, that was terrible. Maybe I'm crazy and missed something, let me check the forums to see what other people thought. Oh, there's already a 500 page thread of people that hate the ending, I see I'm not alone."

 

[soulsavior]

the only video the people who hate the ending of ME3 need to watch is the video from ME1 and Shep's talk with Sovereign...then go back and replay the end of ME3 and see if it makes more sense

"You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding...There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own you cannot even imagine it, I am beyond your comprehension"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnDp2mWU7ic

I especially like the part where he says,

"Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation. An accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die."

"We are eternal. The pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything."

Those sure sound like the words of something who's real motives (according to god child) are apparently to preserve organic life, right? I mean, he seems so sympathetic to organics and really appreciates them! Also, wasn't "synthesis" supposed to be the pinnacle of evolution according to god child? Apparently he didn't inform Sovereign of what was really going on here.

The ending now makes less sense. Thanks.

 

[J W]

I think the herd mentality thing is true to an extent. I don't think it affects how people feel about the ending. Most people either like it or don't like it. It's a dark ending no matter how you slice it, though, so many people probably aren't going to like it because of that. Some may be in the middle, but I think this would be a small minority.

I do think the mob mentality thing is true when you consider the "Take back" movements and stuff. I don't know how motivated most people would be to demand a new ending if they had to do so singularly.

 

[song414]

I honestly was depressed for a couple of days after I finished this.

I was too. Well really I never felt like this from a game. I feel an emptyness after beating it and realizing its over. Maybe because there was no closure and the story really puts you in there.

 

[soulsavior]

I think the herd mentality thing is true to an extent. I don't think it affects how people feel about the ending. Most people either like it or don't like it. It's a dark ending no matter how you slice it, though, so many people probably aren't going to like it because of that. Some may be in the middle, but I think this would be a small minority.

I do think the mob mentality thing has teeth when you consider the "Take back" movements and stuff. I don't know how motivated most people would be to demand a new ending if they had to do so singularly.

Frankly, I'll never be one to demand anything. If the developers sit down, play through the ending, and think "yep, nailed it" I don't want them to change it for our sake. I'd like to think the fact that they plan on expanding on it in some fashion is a sign that they themselves wanted the ending to be more, but they ran out of time or money.

 

[Solitude]

I fucking loved the ending to Mass Effect 3 and the only part that really had me scratching my head was the crash landing or whatever. Evberything leading up to that.....talk about emotional.

 

[spacing guild]

There is just no way to make decisions in a game trilogy that effect an ending in way that's profound. It just isn't possible. There would have to be quantifiable consequences to every minor decision and plot progress along those lines. There would have to be dialogue written to reflect all those decisions. With every decision, the possible outcomes are multiplied.

If you want to say the endings were weak...that there were plot holes. That's okay. But to realistically expect that a decision you made in ME 1 would have a tangible effect on your ending of ME3, you were kidding yourself all along.

You could tell, starting with ME1, that subplots were the only decisions you were making. If you believed different, you were lying to yourselves... if you're smart enough to play this game, you should have been smart enough to know that what you guys are claiming that you expected, simply isn't possible..maybe it could have been more micromanaged...to perhaps 7 or 10 possible endings. But that would have to include the possibility that what you did in ME1 and ME2, caused you fail in a possible ending of ME3. Like one of the Wish-Granter "false" endings in the original Stalker.

When Shepard took down that reaper in ME3 by lazer-painting that target, that reaper before it died basically foreshadowed the ending to come. If you didn't see that mid-game... I don't know.

 

[Dallows]

You know the more I listen to like the discussion with Sovereign and the talk with the god child... I realize the core of this story is just the shitty part pulled from the Matrix.

 

[prelag]

There is just no way to make decisions in a game trilogy that effect an ending in way that's profound. It just isn't possible. There would have to be quantifiable consequences to every minor decision and plot progress along those lines. There would have to be dialogue written to reflect all those decisions. With every decision, the possible outcomes are multiplied.

If you want to say the endings were weak...that there were plot holes. That's okay. But to realistically expect that a decision you made in ME 1 would have a tangible effect on your ending of ME3, you were kidding yourself all along.

You could tell, starting with ME1, that subplots were the only decisions you were making. If you believed different, you were lying to yourselves... if you're smart enough to play this game, you should have been smart enough to know that what you guys are claiming that you expected, simply isn't possible..maybe it could have been more micromanaged...to perhaps 7 or 10 possible endings. But that would have to include the possibility that what you did in ME1 and ME2, caused you fail in a possible ending of ME3. Like one of the Wish-Granter "false" endings in the original Stalker.

When Shepard took down that reaper in ME3 by lazer-painting that target, that reaper before it died basically foreshadowed the ending to come. If you didn't see that mid-game... I don't know.

This has to be the dumbest thing I've EVER read on this forum.

"It's not Biowares fault the endings suck, because it wasn't actually possible for them to make sixteen different endings to begin with!"

BULLSHIT!

Publishers love people like you. They BANK on people like you.

Why put out quality products, when you can rush development cycles and cut costs while still selling a shit ton of games to fuckwads like you?

If you believe that it was technically impossible for Bioware to create multiple endings that took prior decisions into account, I have some prime real estate to sell you in the everglades.

I really need to take a break from gaming. This whole Generation ME, composed of kids who grew up on Xbox and Mountain Dew are driving this industry straight into the shitter.

 

[yujie]

The Reapers sort of remind me of the shadow wars in B5 when the Vorlons vs Shadows and mix & match the conflicts of one another of another. The Vorlons advocate chaos to advance the younger races while the Vorlons interfere with younger races. Asari=Minbari, Narn=Turians

 

[spacing guild]

This has to be the dumbest thing I've EVER read on this forum.

"It's not Biowares fault the endings suck, because it wasn't actually possible for them to make sixteen different endings to begin with!"

BULLSHIT!

Publishers love people like you. They BANK on people like you.

Why put out quality products, when you can rush development cycles and cut costs while still selling a shit ton of games to fuckwads like you?

If you believe that it was technically impossible for Bioware to create multiple endings that took prior decisions into account, I have some prime real estate to sell you in the everglades.

I really need to take a break from gaming. This whole Generation ME, composed of kids who grew up on Xbox and Mountain Dew are driving this industry straight into the shitter.

If you noticed, I mentioned Stalker. I mentioned that Stalker had multiple endings. Only a hardcore PC gamer would know something like that. I stopped consoles with the Super NES. I'm a pure PC gamer.

All I see is, complaints about how something wasn't done in Mass Effect. I have yet to see a solution of how it was supposed to be done. Calling me names doesn't mean you have a solution to what you're bitching about.

I alluded to the possibility of the decision-making having meaningful consequences. I mean, anything is possible. My point was that it was technically impractical.

And what would a variable ending, twisted, inter-twined plot accomplish? What if you made a decision that made it impossible for you defeat the collectors and you die?

No Mass Effect 3 for you, motherfucker. Go download another Sheppard who made the right decisions.

The very fact that you're angry about it means that Bioware made a fool out of you. Like I said, I knew from ME1 what they meant about decision-making playing a part in the game... I wasn't fooled. I knew that the war assets menu in the war room was bullshit and would play no part in the ending. But I played the game anyway because it was fun as hell.

It never had a replay appeal for me and it still doesn't. I have no desire to play these games ever again. Because the truth is, when all is said and done with Mass Effect, the story was pretty linear and it always was. Not to say I didn't enjoy many parts of the game. Just not to play them over again.

 

[Dallows]

The whole last section involving earth was pretty pathetic. Nothing like how it should've been. Simple 2 minute CGI space battle sequence and more of the same on the ground fighting. Nothing to bring it over the top, nothing to make you stop and go "holy shit."

I'm so sick of all this hyped up epics that only let me down.

Even the ending credits song is pissing me off.

 

[CrimsonKnight13]

The Reapers sort of remind me of the shadow wars in B5 when the Vorlons vs Shadows and mix & match the conflicts of one another of another. The Vorlons advocate chaos to advance the younger races while the Vorlons interfere with younger races. Asari=Minbari, Narn=Turians

I believe that BioWare borrowed a lot from Babylon 5, Farscape, Battlestar Galactica (both), & many others

 

[prelag]

If you noticed, I mentioned Stalker. I mentioned that Stalker had multiple endings. Only a hardcore PC gamer would know something like that. I stopped consoles with the Super NES. I'm a pure PC gamer.

All I see is, complaints about how something wasn't done in Mass Effect. I have yet to see a solution of how it was supposed to be done. Calling me names doesn't mean you have a solution to what you're bitching about.

I alluded to the possibility of the decision-making having meaningful consequences. I mean, anything is possible. My point was that it was technically impractical.

And what would a variable ending, twisted, inter-twined plot accomplish? What if you made a decision that made it impossible for you defeat the collectors and you die?

No Mass Effect 3 for you, motherfucker. Go download another Sheppard who made the right decisions.

The very fact that you're angry about it means that Bioware made a fool out of you. Like I said, I knew from ME1 what they meant about decision-making playing a part in the game... I wasn't fooled. I knew that the war assets menu in the war room was bullshit and would play no part in the ending. But I played the game anyway because it was fun as hell.

It never had a replay appeal for me and it still doesn't. I have no desire to play these games ever again. Because the truth is, when all is said and done with Mass Effect, the story was pretty linear and it always was. Not to say I didn't enjoy many parts of the game. Just not to play them over again.

I'm not sure if you are trolling, or if you really are this stupid. I'll assume you are stupid or haven't played the game, so I'll try to fight your ignorance with some logic.

First, here are some quotes from the folks at Bioware regarding the endings.

“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t say any more than that…” Mike Gamble

“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens." BioWare will not do a "Lost" and leave fans with more questions than
answers after finishing the game, Gamble promised.

t’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them.” Casey Hudson

Now, on to some of your points. Playing Stalker makes you a hardcore PC gamer?

I'm not sure what decision you could make that would make it impossible to defeat the collectors and die. If such an option existed, it would only prevent you from importing your Shepard into ME3, any normal human being would go back and complete that portion of the game so they didn't die if importing their character were important to them. I found it hard to actually answer this question btw, because of the sheer stupidity you couldn't figure this out on your own.

As far as the anger thing goes, I would liken it more to being lied to. I was angry after I finished the game, now I just feel ripped off. My parents didn't buy me the game, I actually spent hard earned money on it. Before you ask why I felt lied to, see quotes above.

Stop playing football without a helmet, you hardcore PC gamer you.

 

[prelag]

I alluded to the possibility of the decision-making having meaningful consequences. I mean, anything is possible. My point was that it was technically impractical.

My turn. Why is it technically impractical? Please, do explain!

 

[mas]

If you noticed, I mentioned Stalker. I mentioned that Stalker had multiple endings. Only a hardcore PC gamer would know something like that. I stopped consoles with the Super NES. I'm a pure PC gamer.

All I see is, complaints about how something wasn't done in Mass Effect. I have yet to see a solution of how it was supposed to be done. Calling me names doesn't mean you have a solution to what you're bitching about.

I alluded to the possibility of the decision-making having meaningful consequences. I mean, anything is possible. My point was that it was technically impractical.

And what would a variable ending, twisted, inter-twined plot accomplish? What if you made a decision that made it impossible for you defeat the collectors and you die?

No Mass Effect 3 for you, motherfucker. Go download another Sheppard who made the right decisions.

The very fact that you're angry about it means that Bioware made a fool out of you. Like I said, I knew from ME1 what they meant about decision-making playing a part in the game... I wasn't fooled. I knew that the war assets menu in the war room was bullshit and would play no part in the ending. But I played the game anyway because it was fun as hell.

It never had a replay appeal for me and it still doesn't. I have no desire to play these games ever again. Because the truth is, when all is said and done with Mass Effect, the story was pretty linear and it always was. Not to say I didn't enjoy many parts of the game. Just not to play them over again.

if you want to seem legitimate, you should probably use references to previous games on topic, instead of mundane details about other games that anyone could look up in 30 seconds. and probably not ask questions that sound like you've never played mass effect before.

 

[spacing guild]

if you want to seem legitimate, you should probably use references to previous games on topic, instead of mundane details about other games that anyone could look up in 30 seconds. and probably not ask questions that sound like you've never played mass effect before.

I played the whole game on Insanity. I must've fucking played something having to do with Mass Effect.

You dopes were lied to and you believed it. That's about all it boils down to. Instead of enjoying the game for what it was, you guys bitch about stuff that was NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

" Now, on to some of your points. Playing Stalker makes you a hardcore PC gamer? " Yes it does.

 

[prelag]

I have my insanity badge. I must've fucking played something having to do with Mass Effect.

You dopes were lied to and you believed it. That's about all it boils down to.

Now we are dopes because the other two games had consequences that mattered and we expected the same in ME3?

Yeah.... you're trolling.

 

[spacing guild]

Now we are dopes because the other two games had consequences that mattered and we expected the same in ME3?

Yeah.... you're trolling.

No i'm not. I'll tell you what happened. I played the game. I played all three games. I took them at face value. I loved the action... I enjoyed the ending of ME3. Holes in the plot? There are holes in every sci-fi series. I wanted to know why like 99% of the people hated it. Why people were SUING over it. I wanted to debate. But it's never a debate, it's just an attack that I don't know what i'm talking about.

I see bitching that people were disappointed that the end had nothing to do with the decisions they made earlier in the series. What ending would have been appropriate to the possible decisions you made over three games? I just don't know how that's possible without the possibility of failure of the mission. You don't even know what the real mission is half the time. They were always revealing new major plot points, always changing the game. How could you possibly know what outcome your decisions were going to have over three games? And if they don't reveal new plot points...then the game suffers from a lack of a good story. I mean, forget the ending. I thought the story in ME3 was pretty good. Some emotional decisions there to be made.

As far as I was concerned, the mission was to stop the reapers. So I stopped them. Destroyed the mass relays and had a good old time. I killed Martin Sheen or whoever he was. The smoking man from the X-files? Is that who he was? He wanted to control. I chose to wipe the slate clean instead of control. There. I made a decision based on my earlier decisions. I win.

 

[prelag]

No i'm not. I'll tell you what happened. I played the game. I played all three games. I took them at face value. I loved the action... I enjoyed the ending of ME3. Holes in the plot? There are holes in every sci-fi series. I wanted to know why like 99% of the people hated it. Why people were SUING over it. I wanted to debate. But it's never a debate, it's just an attack that I don't know what i'm talking about.

I see bitching that people were disappointed that the end had nothing to do with the decisions they made earlier in the series. What ending would have been appropriate to the possible decisions you made over three games? I just don't how that's possible without the possibility of failure of the mission. You don't even know what the real mission is half the time. They were always revealing new major plot points, always changing the game. How could you possibly know what outcome your decisions were going to have over three games? And if they don't reveal new plot points...then the game suffers from a lack of a good story. I mean, forget the ending. I thought the story in ME3 was pretty good. Some emotional decisions there to be made.

If you want to debate, try answering some of your own assertions first. Start with the one I asked you to clarify a few posts up.

 

[fdiaz78]

I enjoyed ME3 immensely even with the crap ending. People just like to bitch I guess, but playing ME3 was like going through a tour of the finest restaurants in the world for two weeks, eating like a king and then on the last day they give you a ham sandwich and send you home. Yeah the ham sandwhich is not how you want to end the experience but everything before it was a great time. Who cares.

 

[mas]

I played the whole game on Insanity. I must've fucking played something having to do with Mass Effect.

You dopes were lied to and you believed it. That's about all it boils down to. Instead of enjoying the game for what it was, you guys bitch about stuff that was NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

" Now, on to some of your points. Playing Stalker makes you a hardcore PC gamer? " Yes it does.

but you've never played mass effect 1 or 2.

 

[Dan_D]

I'd ordinarily agree with you since the way groupthink spreads and infects people so easily is clear to see a lot of the time.

But everyone I know who played it and I all insulated ourselves from any coverage of the third game until completion, knowing how fond people are of intentionally spoiling stuff like this - and it's been a big, long story we all enjoyed and were looking forward to concluding.

We also all found it to be phenomenally, spectacularly shitty. For all the reasons others have covered. It's just been a case of vindication to come out of the "no ME3 discussion bubble" to find hundreds of thousands of other players similarly blown away by how godawful it was.

To be honest, I actually tabbed out of the game once the shiny little boy gave me my options, to re-watch just his speech on youtube to make sure I'd heard them all right. I wasn't sure I hadn't mis-heard him say "lol unlucky every choice fucks it all up bye".

Agreed. I went into the ending with no idea how the game would end. I specifically avoided spoilers about the game so that I could judge it for myself. I found the ending to be maddening and totally shitty.

I actually initially thought that the ending was a hallucination, which I thought worked. Then I read a statement from BioWare that basically said that no more content would be added after the end in ME3, so I began to have doubts about my first impression. Also, I began to suspect that this creative universe which BioWare imagined was basically blown up for God knows what reason. I was sad.

Where I'm at right now is 1) if the ending is all an illusion then fine, but this means the game is incomplete. If this is the case then I hope that more content will actually be added to the end. I don't care that BioWare's statement was a lie. 2) If the ending isn't an illusion, then I'm completely confused.

Some sort of trauma-induced hallucination was what I thought. However, the indoctrination stuff fits much better, I think.

I figured the ending was probably going to be a hallucination because of all the dream sequences in the game. (Which were about the only thing before actually heading to Earth for the final assault that I thought was lame.) Many things about the ending just felt out of place and just off. Anderson and the Illusive man beating Shepard to the control room being one. Anderson's gunshot wound transferring to Shepard being the other. The star child thing just sort of hits out of no where. One of my biggest problems with that is the nature of the AI Child suggests the Reapers aren't sentient, which is bullshit based on all our conversations with Reapers like Sovereign and Harbinger.

And yeah, whether intentional or not, the indocrination thing fits perfectly. BioWare should really go with that and pretend that was their plan all along.

the only video the people who hate the ending of ME3 need to watch is the video from ME1 and Shep's talk with Sovereign...then go back and replay the end of ME3 and see if it makes more sense

"You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding...There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own you cannot even imagine it, I am beyond your comprehension"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnDp2mWU7ic

I've played more Mass Effect between ME1 and ME2 than is probably healthy. I've been through the third game now three fucking times and the ending is no less shitty. The ending being shitty isn't a matter of it being too complex or "high brow" for me to understand. It's full of fucking plot holes and it's a mess. The ending blows. Period. I think it is you who is having a hard time comprehending just how shitty the ending is. If you like it that's great, but so far you've really not been able to change anyone's mind about just how bad it sucks. And I don't see you succeeding at doing so with very many of us.

That's just a weak excuse. So Bioware foists an ending that basically tells us we kill nearly everyone we care about, end the civilations we're trying to save, full of plotholes...but really what it is is that "we're incapable of understanding it"? Bullshit.

Fine, you like the ending, we get it. But to try and lump us all together into groupthink is A) condescending and B)shows you haven't really read all of the posts.

Agreed 100 motherfucking percent.

There's this. Though, the indoctrination thing is pretty dang creative. I don't know if it's fan fiction or not, but the newest youtube video sure makes a convincing case for it.

There is a lot of evidence working for it and little against the theory. About the only thing that works against it in-game is the fact that the beacon on Thessia didn't detect Shepard's presence as indoctrinated, but if he's successfully fighting it at that particular moment it may not have registered. Out of the game universe BioWare's behavior, some of the posts out there supposedly from BioWare staff and reaction to the ending pretty much says that they simply wrote a shitty ending and didn't count on the visceral fan reaction. Then again it's hard to believe this one got past beta testers, much less anyone else on the game's creative staff. But it was suggested that Casey Hudson and Mac Walters pulled rank and went off the rails on their own. Possible, but it seems highly unlikely.

At that point in ME1 Bioware was riffing any of a myriad of science fiction stories about ancient, sentient, galaxy wide killing machines. Most of those stories didn't need to pull a multi-level Deus Ex Machina ending in the last act. They were actually plotted out from the get go, and were much much more satisfying in the end. ME sure "borrows" a lot of ideas from the Revelation Space universe, and it would've been much much better, if only it had borrowed the "ending", or at least the "ending" of it's reaper equivalents.

Bioware had at least one, probably multiple, properly forshadowed plot arcs, one being the dark energy plot. But for some strange reason, it couldn't possibly be an insane deadline, no way, it had to be "the leak". they threw them all out, and wrote something brand new at the last minute, and boy does it show.

Also at that point in ME1 the Reapers were mysterious and foreboding. At the end of ME3, the Reapers are just some other ancient being's pets. Heck they're probably indoctrinated haha haha ha...

I can see Star Trek, Star Wars, BSG, Terminator, Aliens, Alien Nation, Stargate, and just about every science fiction show made in the last 30 or 40 years in the Mass Effect universe. There are at least two extremely direct Star Trek references. Shepard's "It's green" response to the beverage served to him in a bar on the Citadel in ME2 is one and the dialog between the Krogan Battlemaster and Shepard on Therum in ME1 is another. Shepard speaks of the ruins coming down around them and the Krogan replies: "Exhilerating, isn't it." The same as the Klingon Captain Kruge did to James Kirk in Star Trek III the Search for Spock when they met on the planet Genesis.

the guy who did the voice for Sovereign should have voiced all the Reapers...that was one of the best scenes in the entire trilogy...I was expecting 1 final conversation and showdown with the king of Reapers in ME3...that disappointed me...at one point during the final battle it is mentioned that Harbinger and other Reapers are breaking off from the battle and headed to Earth

I thought for sure we were going to have an epic showdown with 2-3 Reapers

I almost agreed with you here. I am glad they are separate voices. Given that all Reapers of that class look pretty much the same, I think it differentiates them. I think that's necessary. However, Sovereign's voice was the best by far.

Perhaps for some people, but certainly not for me. After the ending, I was like, "holy crap, that was terrible. Maybe I'm crazy and missed something, let me check the forums to see what other people thought. Oh, there's already a 500 page thread of people that hate the ending, I see I'm not alone."

I had the same reaction. I hated it and surprisingly or not surprisingly I found tons of people online agreed with me.

Frankly, I'll never be one to demand anything. If the developers sit down, play through the ending, and think "yep, nailed it" I don't want them to change it for our sake. I'd like to think the fact that they plan on expanding on it in some fashion is a sign that they themselves wanted the ending to be more, but they ran out of time or money.

As I've said many times, rumor has it BioWare wanted further delays and EA wouldn't allow it. BioWare by their own admission worked on the ending up until the last minute. I think they received a luke warm reaction to the original ending in the leaked script and decided to rewrite it and do something different so that all would be surprised by the actual ending. It seems to me like EA just didn't give them the time they needed to do it that way. So we get a rushed final act and a rushed ending. Both ME2 and ME3 end with you fighting hordes of enemies, but ME2 puts decision making and story to it and the consequences for bad decisions are huge. It seems most people lost squad members in the final push. At least the first time they played it. ME3 lacks this crucial component. We also do not really see the fruits of all we've accomplished. We just see humans fighting and again, we just fight hordes and then the game comes to an end with the AI Child BS and some recycled ME1 Saren conversation with the Illusive Man which is bullshit.

The Reapers sort of remind me of the shadow wars in B5 when the Vorlons vs Shadows and mix & match the conflicts of one another of another. The Vorlons advocate chaos to advance the younger races while the Vorlons interfere with younger races. Asari=Minbari, Narn=Turians

Again, Mass Effect borrows from all science fiction. In a way it takes the best each one has to offer, then combines BioWare's skill of developing good characters.

I believe that BioWare borrowed a lot from Babylon 5, Farscape, Battlestar Galactica (both), & many others

It borrows a lot from everyone.

I enjoyed ME3 immensely even with the crap ending. People just like to bitch I guess, but playing ME3 was like going through a tour of the finest restaurants in the world for two weeks, eating like a king and then on the last day they give you a ham sandwich and send you home. Yeah the ham sandwhich is not how you want to end the experience but everything before it was a great time. Who cares.

I see where you are coming from conceptually, and I am actually still playing ME3, so I guess I do agree somewhat. Or at least I still enjoy the game despite the massive fault. But the ending blows goats. Plain and simple. There is NO reason for this to be the case. At least not a good one. The rest of the game being 10/10 is no fucking excuse for one of the worst endings of all time in a game. Why should it be acceptable?

 

[spacing guild]

If you want to debate, try answering some of your own assertions first. Start with the one I asked you to clarify a few posts up.

What... "technically impractical?"

There is no story unless it's a unified experience. That's what a story is. If they endeavored to build a game series where your decisions carried real weight into the next game, the programming would be immense by sheer multiplication of possible scenarios that would exist from having made multiple decisions. Where would the story be if there wasn't a unifying theme you had to adhere to? Something to pull everyone back into the same experience.

One simple decision they could have made was, if you chose to be a dick in ME2 and ME3 and grow those red circuit-board scars on your face from being a renegade, you could only chose control or something "authoritarian". That would be your ending. But that's a general pattern of decision-making. If you want to base an ending based on your patterns, that could be a good practical idea.

 

[Damar]

As I've said many times, rumor has it BioWare wanted further delays and EA wouldn't allow it.

Seeing all the threads that keep popping up on the BW forums and the general "fuck EA" backlash around the net, I wonder if EA is regretting not giving BW final say over when ME3 was "ready" at this point?

I'd really like to see the next major title EA ships out tank horribly as a sign from the customer base that they screwed up hard on this. Sadly, mindless consumers (like some in this thread and others I personally know who shall remain nameless) will still blindly buy whatever EA puts out the door, but I know of 3 people personally who won't touch another EA/BW product again after the ME3 fiasco, even if they try to "fix" it with DLC.

Buying any "fix" DLC at this point just tells EA it was ok to fuck it up in the first place since they can just charge more after and its ok. That would set such a bad precedent in the industry and fuck as all over so much down the road, but sadly people dont see it.

I'd also love to see EA stock tank down into the $0.50 cent range, but I do love me some chaos in the market, especially when I don't own the stock myself, and that would really hit them where it hurts the most.

EA may have a bajillion dollars, but long term, I'd love to see them take a real hit on this whole mess. Lord knows they more than deserve it.

 

[Solitude]

His name.....

I thought this was funny and I loved the ending.

 

[J W]

It's interesting that some people are starting to pop up here and there who like the ending. I do wonder a couple of things about these people: Do they consider themselves "core fans" or just casual fans? Have they just finished the game or has it been a few days? What do they specifically like about the ending?

If the indoctrination thing were made a tiny bit more obvious, I suspect more people would be receptive to the ending. The other part to this is that people would be bitching about BioWare's DLC model, assuming the ending was to be continued.

There has to be something that ties all this together. I can't believe that BioWare unintentionally made an ending that would garner this type of clamor. If it isn't a hallucination, then there must be parts missing from the beginning, middle, and end of the ending sequence.

 

[Q-BZ]

I loved the ending.

How? Why?

It's interesting that some people are starting to pop up here and there who like the ending. I do wonder a couple of things about these people: Do they consider themselves "core fans" or just casual fans? Have they just finished the game or has it been a few days? What do they specifically like about the ending?

Could be some trolling, too.

I can't wrap my brain around it. I haven't seen a person yet who says they like the ending explain how or why. At best, they simply repeat themselves several times that they liked it and maybe you get a snide comment about nerd raging and such and there's no real discussion to be had after that especially when people that didn't like the ending start citing mountains of specific examples in their faces.

 

[ballpoint]

I have a moderate liking for the ending. I finished the game a week ago and can definitely say no other game ending has ever stuck with me this way.

As someone who has read a lot of hard sci-fi over the years, I've become accustomed to unknowable alien intelligences revealing themselves or their grand plans in the closing parts of a story.

If the ending was supposed to be a literal series of events, then yes I have some major problems with the execution of that part of the story, and the introduction of the kid AI... but I don't think it's a travesty, just a bit disappointing and ham-fisted.

But I'm given to believe it was an indoctrination attempt and you're probably going to wake up with the reaper invasion still going on. There were plenty of signs that you were in some kind of dreamlike state going forward from the point you woke up after Harbinger's attack.

One thing I don't really get is exactly what "IT" is supposed to mean as far as whether the events shown actually happened in the physical reality of the game or not. Like, did the mass relays actually blow up or was that part of some vision on Sheppard's part? Was he really on the citadel talking to that AI or was harbinger just beaming that experience into his mind?

If they don't answer some of these questions in the DLC I'll be a bit pissed off.

 

[Q-BZ]

I have a moderate liking for the ending. I finished the game a week ago and can definitely say no other game ending has ever stuck with me this way.

That's for damned sure. As someone who didn't like any of the endings, I think most people if not everyone probably agrees with the "It sticks with you" concept one way or the other.

As someone who has read a lot of hard sci-fi over the years, I've become accustomed to unknowable alien intelligences revealing themselves or their grand plans in the closing parts of a story.

Except more often than not it's a bunch of BS. Like this is so far.

If the ending was supposed to be a literal series of events, then yes I have some major problems with the execution of that part of the story, and the introduction of the kid AI... but I don't think it's a travesty, just a bit disappointing and ham-fisted.

But I'm given to believe it was an indoctrination attempt and you're probably going to wake up with the reaper invasion still going on. There were plenty of signs that you were in some kind of dreamlike state going forward from the point you woke up after Harbinger's attack.

That's why I think, too. For me everything is suspect right after you "white out/black out" from that Harbinger beam. For me, that's far and away the cleanest way Bioware can clean this mess up.

One thing I don't really get is exactly what "IT" is supposed to mean as far as whether the events shown actually happened in the physical reality of the game or not. Like, did the mass relays actually blow up or was that part of some vision on Sheppard's part? Was he really on the citadel talking to that AI or was harbinger just beaming that experience into his mind?

If they don't answer some of these questions in the DLC I'll be a bit pissed off.

Agreed. I think they will. They have to and they know it.

 

[CrimsonKnight13]

One thing I don't really get is exactly what "IT" is supposed to mean as far as whether the events shown actually happened in the physical reality of the game or not. Like, did the mass relays actually blow up or was that part of some vision on Sheppard's part? Was he really on the citadel talking to that AI or was harbinger just beaming that experience into his mind?

This really deserves the Admiral Ackbar "It's a trap!" photo... I'm pretty sure that once you start running towards the relay site, you're just heading towards being Harbinger's thrawl. From that point forward, you're just hopped up on Reaper narcotics & under direct control of everything Harbinger wants you to see.