Mass Effect 3 Discussion Thread

TwistedAegis

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The ending makes it hard to see the forest for all the trees, it seems.
It's because the damn ending burns down the entire forest you spent countless hours caring for.

And as much as a new ending DLC would be nice...it can't remove what is the actual ending of the game. Although if it clarified that Dan's point earlier is true...perhaps that could work.
 

LeninGHOLA

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You have to hand it to BW. Not many other games (especially action-RPG type games) have people critically thinking like this and talking about elements like deus ex machinas.

The ending makes it hard to see the forest for all the trees, it seems.
Err, a deus ex machina is a plot element used by lazy writers, not something to be praised.
 

LhasaCM

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I'm 23 hours in and am enjoying it a lot...so the ending discussion will have to wait for me...
I just finished the missing Krogan scout mission in the Rachni relay...I saved the Rachni in ME1 and am happy with the conclusion to their story...was this mission an exclusive to those that saved the Rachni Queen?...I don't see how they can tell this story any other way
No...you can get this mission with the Rachni Queen having been killed.
 

polonyc2

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I usually feel the journey is often more important in a game than an ending... You're just missing out.
I'm nowhere near the end but I totally agree with the above post...I'm totally enjoying the ride...seeing a familiar squad mate from a previous game or resolution to something like the Rachni Queen mystery is something that brings a smile to my face

too many people up in arms over the ending of ME3 or of the TV show LOST don't get the big picture...do the last 10 minutes really ruin 25+ hours of total immersion and enjoyment?...or in my case over 125+ hours in all 3 games combined?...not for me...the ending of LOST was definitely a letdown but it doesn't ruin the overall quality of one of the finest, smartest and well written network TV shows of my generation
 

LhasaCM

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I'm nowhere near the end but I totally agree with the above post...I'm totally enjoying the ride...seeing a familiar squad mate from a previous game or resolution to something like the Rachni Queen mystery is something that brings a smile to my face

too many people up in arms over the ending of ME3 or of the TV show LOST don't get the big picture...do the last 10 minutes really ruin 25+ hours of total immersion and enjoyment?...not for me...the ending of LOST was definitely a letdown but it doesn't ruin the overall quality of one of the finest, smartest and well written network TV shows of my generation
No...but are folks as likely to rewatch Lost knowing how it ended? Were they ever? One of the beauties of the Mass Effect series has been the replayability. Knowing that the end is what it is really takes away from that for this game. It's also a passive versus active experience. With Mass Effect, we as a gamer felt in control (somewhat) of the outcome, so there's a deeper connection than a TV show that was just watched/analyzed.
 

KatalDT

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No...but are folks as likely to rewatch Lost knowing how it ended? Were they ever? One of the beauties of the Mass Effect series has been the replayability. Knowing that the end is what it is really takes away from that for this game. It's also a passive versus active experience. With Mass Effect, we as a gamer felt in control (somewhat) of the outcome, so there's a deeper connection than a TV show that was just watched/analyzed.
The analogy doesn't quite fit. There is only one ending to Lost. With Mass Effect 3, we were expecting multiple endings - which is why it would be replayable. Instead, we get ONE ending with SUPER MINOR VARIATIONS where almost every one of our choices didn't make a difference at all.

Mass Effect has always been about cause and effect. A string of decisions leading to a consequence. This has been a string of decisions leading to pretty much the same consequence, regardless of your decisions.

I could play through ME1-3 clicking the top right button for EVERY CONVERSATION OPTION and get the exact same ending I did for when I played through 1-3 carefully and agonized over each important decision.

So what's the point?
 

Pez

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Found this image on another board and thought some people might enjoy it. It compares some ME3 screens with images that they look "borrowed" or imspired from. It also includes the stock image that Tali's photo was based on... so spoilers for that.

http://i44.tinypic.com/10rqoa1.jpg
 

Riddleofsteel

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I just read a small but devastating spoiler that makes me not want to finish the series... I thought I knew it already but there was a little tidbit I didn't know. Fudge.
 

Parmenides

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I just read a small but devastating spoiler that makes me not want to finish the series... I thought I knew it already but there was a little tidbit I didn't know. Fudge.
Is it about as spoilerific as finding out about Revan ahead of time of the reveal in KOTOR?
 

Aix

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Story wise I feel that Mass Effect trilogy is gaming's Matrix. Phenomenal first episode, then things start getting dumb in the second and fall off a cliff by the end of the third.

Five+ years from now when I think "Mass Effect", I'll think of the amazing ME1 and pretend the other two didn't exist.
 

Damar

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Story wise I feel that Mass Effect trilogy is gaming's Matrix. Phenomenal first episode, then things start getting dumb in the second and fall off a cliff by the end of the third.

Five+ years from now when I think "Mass Effect", I'll think of the amazing ME1 and pretend the other two didn't exist.
Thats why I laughed when I found this...(and saved it off under my LOL folder). :p

 

Dan_D

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You have to hand it to BW. Not many other games (especially action-RPG type games) have people critically thinking like this and talking about elements like deus ex machinas.

The ending makes it hard to see the forest for all the trees, it seems.
I don't want critical thinking. Frankly I wanted an ending that was satisfying and made me feel a sense of accomplishment for all the effort and work. Not an ending that says: What you did doesn't matter and everything you've done is ultimately futile.

Err, a deus ex machina is a plot element used by lazy writers, not something to be praised.
Goddamn right. I couldn't agree more.

No...but are folks as likely to rewatch Lost knowing how it ended? Were they ever? One of the beauties of the Mass Effect series has been the replayability. Knowing that the end is what it is really takes away from that for this game. It's also a passive versus active experience. With Mass Effect, we as a gamer felt in control (somewhat) of the outcome, so there's a deeper connection than a TV show that was just watched/analyzed.
I agree. I replayed Mass Effect 2 multiple times for the different endings and because the actual game's renegade and paragon interrupts etc. made different situations turn out in varied ways that were entertaining as hell. This game lacks that replayability in every way. With the ending it got, I don't have any desire to play the game ever again. I won't lie, I fucking feel betrayed by BioWare. I felt that the ending was the laziest and shittiest type of science fiction possible. What's even worse is some people think of it as literary genius. It isn't because this type of thing has been done many times before. Not only has it been done before, but the presentation of that idea is bad in this case. it doesn't fit with the overall tone of the series either.

Getting back to the point about the Renegade / Paragon interrupts, they suck in comparison to those of ME2. Shepard takes no bold actions by using these that I've seen so far. In fact on at least one or two occasions his paragon interrupts have him console his crew members by touching their shoulders and telling them to buck up. WTF? The ending of the game means I will likely not see more without a DLC which resolves the issues I have with the endings. (Which seems doubtful.) The actual combat game play, weapons and armor are the best in the series, but again that last act makes the game as a whole a tough pill to swallow from my perspective.

  • Battlestar Galactica (The shitty modern one.)
  • Star Trek The Motion Picture
The fucking worst part is that the renegade and paragon endings amount to a complete rip off of Battlesuck Galacticass (the modern one) and the plot holes are fucking huge. Exploding relays essentially destroy an entire star system and even if they explode in a more gentle fashion in this case, it means horrific things for the survivors. It leaves very few survivors with ships and intact planetary infrastructures. Without relays the FTL drives are all more or less short range. Because of this almost everything was essentially for nothing. The "synergy" ending is almost identical to the ending of Star Trek the Motion Picture where Captain / Commander Decker steps into the beam and merges with V'Ger. This is NOT a film you want to emulate. It attempted, like this game to be high brow and thought provoking but it wasn't. It was a weird ending to a slow movie. Hell ME3's ending is actually like a worse version of Star Trek the Motion Picture's. At least that film ends with the Enterprise and her crew heading off into the unknown to face the next challenge despite the loss of two crew members. We deserved at least that fucking much and didn't get it. I know Battlesuck Galactica is popular, but I hated the fucking ending. I hated a lot of things about the series in general, but the ending made something mediocre into an atrocity.
 
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shantd

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Right.

I've seen enough harpings on the ending by now, even without spoilers, to know I damn well better go into it with absysmal expectations just to be safe.
Exactly. My expectations are exactly zero at this point, lol. Still, I may not end up as disappointed as everyone else because even if the reapers win and wipe out all life, I wouldn't have a problem with it. The way I see it, they shouldn't be able to beat the reapers. Humanity is really little more than a race of insects compared to them and it just makes sense to me that they never really had a chance to win in the first place.

Still, perhaps Bioware should've incorporated at least one ending that allowed a small percentage of humanity to at least survive if not win, to reflect the truly dismal chance at success they had to begin with.

Keep in mind I don't have the slightest clue what happens in the end, but when people say 'nothing you do matters in the end', it seems pretty obvious what they're getting at. Kinda wish I'd avoided these forums, but that's my fault.
 
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Damar

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Keep in mind I don't have the slightest clue what happens in the end, but when people say 'nothing you do matters in the end', it seems pretty obvious what they're getting at. Kinda wish I'd avoided these forums, but that's my fault.
It may not be as obvious as you think........I don't think any of us who are upset about it saw it coming the way it did.

Then again, you might enjoy it and find closure where others didn't. I'm sure some people did, but I can't imagine it was very many.
 

kcthebrewer

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I replayed through the ending again after understanding what was happening. I felt it was much better than the original play through. Unfortunately almost no one that plays through it the first time is going to understand WTF is going on.

That stated, whoever in BW that thought this was the best ending scenario should have their head examined. This is easily a hard to get alternate ending type thing not what should have been the real ending.

Also spoiler - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qYm738hq1o Reminds me of Dan's reaction :p
 

Dan_D

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Exactly. My expectations are exactly zero at this point, lol. Still, I may not end up as disappointed as everyone else because even if the reapers win and wipe out all life, I wouldn't have a problem with it. The way I see it, they shouldn't be able to beat the reapers. Humanity is really little more than a race of insects compared to them and it just makes sense to me that they never really had a chance to win in the first place.

Still, perhaps Bioware should've incorporated at least one ending that allowed a small percentage of humanity to at least survive if not win, to reflect the truly dismal chance at success they had to begin with.

Keep in mind I don't have the slightest clue what happens in the end, but when people say 'nothing you do matters in the end', it seems pretty obvious what they're getting at. Kinda wish I'd avoided these forums, but that's my fault.
You pretty much get your way. The endings don't wipe out all life in the galaxy, even if you take into account Mass Relay explosions. Not every ship would be in range of a mass relay anyway, nor does every inhabited star system contain one. Ships also have FTL drives of their own but every races major infrastructure is shattered. Oddly the Quarians are in the best position to bounce back depending on the option you take. It ends with Shepard usually dying and his companions being stranded on a destroyed Normandy in a distance star system or even galaxy. It raises new questions but provides closure in a sense. But it's closer in the way your girlfriend shooting you with a .45ACP brings closure to your relationship. Even if you survive it's over. Essentially the cycle is reset again but in a slightly different way. So again your choices make no fucking difference. Shepard's fight was pretty much for nothing.
 

Dan_D

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I replayed through the ending again after understanding what was happening. I felt it was much better than the original play through. Unfortunately almost no one that plays through it the first time is going to understand WTF is going on.

That stated, whoever in BW that thought this was the best ending scenario should have their head examined. This is easily a hard to get alternate ending type thing not what should have been the real ending.

Also spoiler - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qYm738hq1o Reminds me of Dan's reaction :p
I posted that in the Mass Effect sells a bunch of copies thread in the front page news section. That's about the same reaction I had when I finished the game last night.
 

Damar

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Well, that's good to know at least...or maybe it's not. :p
It's not :(

Enjoy it up to the part when you fight to get to the beam up to the Citadel, that was some real fun.

Once you beam up, grab a very strong drink and see if maybe you can figure out WTH they were smoking.
 

J W

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I completely enjoyed all three games. The third is great with the following exceptions (spoilers in tags):

-The homosexual thing was laid on a bit thick toward the end. Nothing wrong with homosexuality, but
Heterosexual Shepard seems more upset by Cortez dying (toward whom I am intentionally mean because I don’t want any wrong signals getting broadcast) than by Miranda's death, his ex-flame. Still, Shepard yells "Cortez!" and Liara is all "sorry about Cortez." I don't give a damn that he died. I didn't care for him, Liara.

-I liked the ending and feel that I understood what was happening during my playthrough. Perhaps my understanding is wrong, way-off, illogical, and out-of-touch, but that just means it's my ending. It's personal. Good stories often have that quality. However, I agree that more could be done to make the events Shepard experiences more comprehensible. DLC would be okay if done right (No alternative ending! That's ridiculous). I'm not convinced the plot holes are obvious, or a big deal, for that matter.

-Tries too hard? Maybe, but all three games have this quality with some regularity. ME3‘s ending? I'm not sure how else the ending could have gone. Considering the Great Unknown, (Shepard's? My own?) death, or anything along those lines shouldn't necessarily be reckoned as contrived philosophical nonsense for a video game. Neither do I think the contemplation of brotherhood, hope, or altruism are out of place (even for an EA game), given the track record of Shepard. What didn’t I like? The music is nice, but gosh, go easy on it. I’ll feel however I’ll feel about something, and I don’t need to be manipulated by your music every three minutes. You bring the story, Bioware; I’ll bring the emotional reflection. Some poignancy is lost because of the ham.

-No epic boss fight. The "boss" toward the end is fairly simple to beat on insanity and is not interesting at all. Certainly, more should have been done to develop his character. Bastilla and Malak in KOTOR are interesting bosses, story-wise and combat-wise. You can do better than this, Bioware. The "waves of enemies" toward the end are fun and the music is well-executed here, but I question how memorable an experience this is. What would have been good?
Remember when the Jamaican said his crew was turned against him by the Reapers? It would have been awesome if one or several of your squadmates got indoctrinated and turned against you. It could even be a squadmate from ME1 of ME2. Garrus,Tali, or somebody likable would have been good.

- I don't mind the dream sequences. What I don't like is having to chase that impossible-to-catch kid around. I can appreciate the idea, but would have rather watched a cutscene.

Just my thoughts and opinion. It is a fun series and I'm a bit sad that it's over.
 
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kcthebrewer

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I completely enjoyed all three games. The third is great with the following exceptions (spoilers in tags):

-The homosexual thing was laid on a bit thick toward the end. Nothing wrong with homosexuality, but
Heterosexual Shepard seems more upset by Cortez dying (toward whom I am intentionally mean because I don’t want any wrong signals getting broadcast) than by Miranda's death, his ex-flame. Still, Shepard yells "Cortez!" and Liara is all "sorry about Cortez." I don't give a damn that he died. I didn't care for him, Liara.
Neither Cortez or Miranda died in my playthrough. Only Thane, Mordin and Legion died - all sacrificing themselves :(

Also, I felt the Cortez thing was pretty shoved in your face at the beginning of the game. It felt out of place how it was brought up. Maybe it was just the voice acting for that conversation. I know some gay people I work with that would have been laughing about how poorly it was introduced. It seemed to be written from the perspective of someone who has never even met a gay person.
 
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J W

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Neither Cortez or Miranda died in my playthrough. Only Thane, Mordin and Legion died - all sacrificing themselves :(
I knew that it was possible for her to be saved, but Cortez also? For some reason I got this scene where he crashes the shuttle and Shepard has a distressed look on his face while yelling his name out, as if he cared. I guess it's because he lost his ride? Then Liara starts talking about it later on.

I was hoping to find a youtube clip. After going through nearly a page of "sex scene" hits, I found this, which isn't what I wanted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqBXQVxS-qk
 

Curious_George

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You pretty much get your way. The endings don't wipe out all life in the galaxy, even if you take into account Mass Relay explosions. Not every ship would be in range of a mass relay anyway, nor does every inhabited star system contain one. Ships also have FTL drives of their own but every races major infrastructure is shattered. Oddly the Quarians are in the best position to bounce back depending on the option you take. It ends with Shepard usually dying and his companions being stranded on a destroyed Normandy in a distance star system or even galaxy. It raises new questions but provides closure in a sense. But it's closer in the way your girlfriend shooting you with a .45ACP brings closure to your relationship. Even if you survive it's over. Essentially the cycle is reset again but in a slightly different way. So again your choices make no fucking difference. Shepard's fight was pretty much for nothing.
I didn't mind it.

I don't think Shepard's fight was for nothing at all. If you choose the Synthesis option Shepard is basically the seed of new life for the entire galaxy. You cause organic and synthetic life to evolve beyond the stage of direct conflict. There is no longer a cycle to reset, at least between organic and synthetic life. And although the Reapers are not destroyed they become completely unnecessary. Also, who is to say that the new hybrid life won't advance at a much quicker rate than organic and synthetics did? Maybe they'll even be able to harness Reaper technology to eventually rebuild the Mass Relays? If not, adaptation on new planets might not be so difficult now that most life is no longer purely organic. I don't know, I see the Synthesis outcome as more positive myself. It ultimately reconciles the perpetual conflict between synthetic and organic life by finally uniting them on the same path.
 
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kcthebrewer

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I knew that it was possible for her to be saved, but Cortez also? For some reason I got this scene where he crashes the shuttle and Shepard has a distressed look on his face while yelling his name out, as if he cared. I guess it's because he lost his ride? Then Liara starts talking about it later on.

I was hoping to find a youtube clip. After going through nearly a page of "sex scene" hits, I found this, which isn't what I wanted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqBXQVxS-qk
Were you looking for this?

 

krameriffic

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I've only played for a couple hours, but I can already tell something is very, very wrong with where the story is going just based on the fact that I am playing through dream sequences in a bleak and dreary forest reminiscent of Alan Wake and that we are researching what sounds like the biggest macguffin plot element in the history of deus ex machina bullshit. We need THE CATALYST for a PROTHEAN DEVICE THAT WILL WIPE OUT THE REAPERS. What the fuck? Do they think I'm fucking stupid?
 

Dan_D

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I've only played for a couple hours, but I can already tell something is very, very wrong with where the story is going just based on the fact that I am playing through dream sequences in a bleak and dreary forest reminiscent of Alan Wake and that we are researching what sounds like the biggest macguffin plot element in the history of deus ex machina bullshit. We need THE CATALYST for a PROTHEAN DEVICE THAT WILL WIPE OUT THE REAPERS. What the fuck? Do they think I'm fucking stupid?
Pretty much.
 

stewartjm

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I've only played for a couple hours, but I can already tell something is very, very wrong with where the story is going just based on the fact that I am playing through dream sequences in a bleak and dreary forest reminiscent of Alan Wake and that we are researching what sounds like the biggest macguffin plot element in the history of deus ex machina bullshit. We need THE CATALYST for a PROTHEAN DEVICE THAT WILL WIPE OUT THE REAPERS. What the fuck? Do they think I'm fucking stupid?
Yep those were both big warning signs, especially the Crucible "magic wand". Lazy lazy lazy BioWare(EA). I coulda lived with it if it had turned out that it helped with fighting the reapers conventionally, or somehow scared them enough to bring them to the negotiating table. But instead, more levels of BS were piled on top of it, leading to an end worse than the Matrix trilogy, or the new BSG.

The previous 2 games contained plenty of backstory on the reapers, from which they could've woven a much much more coherent narrative. It's almost like the ending was outsourced to another team that had never even heard of mass effect.
 

Mr Mean

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Very good game. I played all the mass effect games and I am happy to see my old saved games file choices being applied in Mass Effect 3. I want to type more, but I don't want to spoil it for the rest.
 

EPOQ

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Surprisingly I'm enjoying the multiplayer component of the game. I'm right near the end of the main story, so I jumped into multiplayer to help my War Readiness....seems like I'm getting about 4% per win. I'm having about a 50/50 win-loss ratio, things can get out of hand very easily in some of the maps if you aren't careful. I'll play it until I get all of the multiplayer character and weapon unlocks and then likely give it up. The maps are all small side mission maps from the single player campaign, but it's a nice change of pace for a while.
 

PureBooYah

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Surprisingly I'm enjoying the multiplayer component of the game. I'm right near the end of the main story, so I jumped into multiplayer to help my War Readiness....seems like I'm getting about 4% per win. I'm having about a 50/50 win-loss ratio, things can get out of hand very easily in some of the maps if you aren't careful. I'll play it until I get all of the multiplayer character and weapon unlocks and then likely give it up. The maps are all small side mission maps from the single player campaign, but it's a nice change of pace for a while.
Same here. I played a couple matches to get my EMS to 4000 before I did the ending and actually ended up played a few more after that I was enjoying it so much.




Pretty good post on the indoctrination theory for those that are interested in that...
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9861052/1#9861052
 

huxley

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I've only played for a couple hours, but I can already tell something is very, very wrong with where the story is going just based on the fact that I am playing through dream sequences in a bleak and dreary forest reminiscent of Alan Wake and that we are researching what sounds like the biggest macguffin plot element in the history of deus ex machina bullshit. We need THE CATALYST for a PROTHEAN DEVICE THAT WILL WIPE OUT THE REAPERS. What the fuck? Do they think I'm fucking stupid?
This thread is very aggravating. This post obviously indicates that Shepherd is the catalyst for the device, thanks for ruining it for me jerk.
 

Viper87227

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Same here. I played a couple matches to get my EMS to 4000 before I did the ending and actually ended up played a few more after that I was enjoying it so much.

Pretty good post on the indoctrination theory for those that are interested in that...
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9861052/1#9861052
A lot of it makes sense, but I don't think that's what Bioware planned. I wish it were. However, it's ambiguous enough of an ending that they could still make this happen if they wanted. I suppose we'll see, either through DLC or future titles.
 

Monkey God

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A lot of it makes sense, but I don't think that's what Bioware planned. I wish it were. However, it's ambiguous enough of an ending that they could still make this happen if they wanted. I suppose we'll see, either through DLC or future titles.
Personally I think BW/EA intended to end exactly as it does, and doesn't give a single fuck what people think. But wait, fans are so "indoctrinated" that BW would never do that on purpose, and are coming up with this absurd theory that its not really end, its just a prank and the real ending is coming soon!

BW is reading that and going..."wow these suckers just dont learn. Lets come up with a new alternate ending DLC! and MAKE MORE $$$ MUAHAHAHA"
 

LhasaCM

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A lot of it makes sense, but I don't think that's what Bioware planned. I wish it were. However, it's ambiguous enough of an ending that they could still make this happen if they wanted. I suppose we'll see, either through DLC or future titles.
True, true. I think part of the problem is that some of their "unfortunate" decisions Bioware made and the motivations behind them (consoles couldn't support the holstering animations?!?) made me think similarly of...

...the one pistol (not my own) on the Citadel at the end and no longer being in my specific armor. I honestly thought initially that it might be a dream sequence or something like that, but then thought "well, they probably couldn't handle the limping movement with custom armor on the consoles." Sigh.

(And yes, the spoiler is almost the end of the game.)
 

LhasaCM

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Personally I think BW/EA intended to end exactly as it does, and doesn't give a single fuck what people think. But wait, fans are so "indoctrinated" that BW would never do that on purpose, and are coming up with this absurd theory that its not really end, its just a prank and the real ending is coming soon!

BW is reading that and going..."wow these suckers just dont learn. Lets come up with a new alternate ending DLC! and MAKE MORE $$$ MUAHAHAHA"
So you're going with the "evil" theory over the "incompetent" theory?
 

Q-BZ

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This thread is very aggravating. This post obviously indicates that Shepherd is the catalyst for the device, thanks for ruining it for me jerk.
C'mon. Is there any doubt in your mind? Shepherd is the center of the universe in these games. That's no spoiler. It's a given that your character is the cog that everything else spins on come hell or high water.
 
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