Looking for build advice :)

enginurd said:
The 32MB versions are newer, and slightly faster, but not significantly faster. The extra cache helps only a little bit. Platter density would help more, but the new 320GB/platter drives for seagate aren't out yet, IIRC. My Seagate drives tend to run louder than my WDs and Samsungs. The WDs and Samsungs perform on par with the Seagates, but the Seagates have a longer warranty (5yr vs 3yr).

There are some new WD drives out, using the single 320GB platter. They're much faster than previous drives, but unfortunately, hard to find. WD mixed the old stock with new, and the only way to tell the difference is the revision number: WD3200AAKS-00B3A0. No online retailer will guarantee the B3 revision, so its luck of the draw or resort to eBay and pay a premium for such a guarantee. To give you an idea of the speed of the drives, here are some synthetic numbers:

Avg Transfer Rate, Access Time: HDD info, Price I paid (except for raptor - twas a gift)
**note, these figures come from HDTune, a synthetic benchmark for HDDs.
112MB/s, 13.2ms: RAID0 'cuda's, 600GB total, $120 (ICH9R on P35-DS3R)
90MB/s, 16.5ms: WD Caviar SE16 WD3200AAKS-00B3A0, $95 (NEW single 320GB/platter; tested by KenF)
78MB/s, 08.2ms: WD Raptor WD1500ADFD 150GB, $160
76MB/s, 13.7ms: WD Caviar SE16 WD7500AAKS 750GB, $150
72MB/s, 15.4ms: Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250410AS 250GB, $65
68MB/s, 13.3ms: Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS 320GB, $60
63MB/s, 13.4ms: WD Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500GB, $100
62MB/s, 15.3ms: Samsung HD501LJ 500GB, $105
52MB/s, 14.0ms: WD Caviar SE16 WD2500KS 250GB, $70
Click to expand...


Hmm.. I wonder where the SG Barracuda 7200.11 comes in on that chart? I don't know what to choose :( I ended up putting two of the 7200.11 500GB drives on my list now...

What would you choose? :( I'm bad at making decisions heh. I really want to have at least 1TB, I'd be ecstatic with just 1TB of space.
 
Syribo said:
Also... Are two 8800GTS (G92) cards faster than one 8800GTX?
Click to expand...

Substantially so.

Also, I've noticed people recommending Xeon quads a few times. Stay away from these. I'm running an X3220 (Q6600 equivalent) and it has been nothing but trouble. Desktop chips for desktop boards, server chips for server boards. A few weeks ago I could not even fathom what saving that ~$20 was going to cost me in the end.... gah.

As for HDDs.... two 500GB Seagate 7200.10 or .11's in RAID 0 are best so far as I'm concerned. Just make sure you're reasonable about backups as if one drive fails you will lose all your data on both. Good news is, Seagate drives have 5 year warranties, so it's a temporary loss. :)
 
Okay.. as for the RAID 0 thing... I don't understand the whole RAID thing yet, heh. Do I need to do anything special or buy anything special? I don't even know what it means :X I guess I can look it up... But you could put it into easier terms for me ;)

Also I was reading the comments about the case I'm getting (All great comments about how awesome the side, top and rear fans are) but there were a lot of comments about how hard it was to get the PSU in. I'm so worried and scared now haha. Some people said they had to remove certain things to fit it in there, and some people said it took over 30 minutes..

This is my first build... I really hope I don't screw this up. I'm still excited, but getting a little worried also ;) But I've read a bunch of guides.. well.. two guides.. And they helped a lot, but I'm still nervous. If I'm not mistaken, is this the order that most people install things?:
1. Prepare case
2. PSU
3. Put CPU on mobo
4. Apply Thermal Compound (I'm going with the MX-2 btw :))
5. Smush it around so it covers the whole area.
6. Attach heatsink (I'm using the heatsink it comes with, right? The Nirvana fan is just a separate fan, yes?)
7. Attach RAM sticks
8. Mount the mobo in the case
9. Attach PSU wires to mobo.
10. Put in optical drive.
11. Put in video cards and sound card.
12. Put in hard drives.
13. Connect all wires/cables, and try to tie them together to run behind the mobo to make it less cluttered?
14. Now do I attach the ball UFO bearing thingy?
15. Close up case, lock it, connect monitor cable, speaker cable, etc and boot it up.
16. Go through BIOS stuff.. Change things that need to be changed..
17. Install and setup Windows.
18. Insert flash card with Mobo and Video card drivers and install them.
19. Do Windows Update stuff.
20. Throw a party because if I reach this step I successfully built my own PC!?

Please share your building order.. And any last tips you would love to give to me :) Or any other guides out there that seem good.
 
Between (8) and (9), you may want to plug in the front panel connectors of the case to the mobo.

The 2nd part of (13) is part of (1). Route your cables beforehand, if you can. BTW, ADHD kicked in after I read (13), sorry, so hopefully someone else will comment on those steps.

You won't be using the stock heatsink if you get the ZEROtherm Nirvana. The Nirvana is an entire heatsink/fan (HSF) combo. Install this instead of the stock cooler that comes with the CPU. MX-2 is a bit harder to spread than AS5. I typically just follow the AS5 instructions: http://arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm

Here's a guide I like to recommend...
http://www.mechbgon.com/build/index.html
 
No, you will not use the heatsink it comes with at all -- the Nirvana is a HSF (or heatsink/fan combo). It will come with instructions; just follow them, substituting the MX2 for whatever thermal paste it tells you to use. You do not need to use much paste at all! Just a tiny bit in a very thin line down the center of the CPU is all that's needed, the heatsink will smush it around for you. :) The Nirvana will come with its fan already installed in it so don't worry about the UFO bearing thing.

Your build order is pretty good. The only thing I would add is, before installing other stuff in the case plug the PSU in to the wall, as this will ground it and prevent static electricity buildup. Make sure you turn its switch off, though.

As for RAID...

Pretty much, you have 2 drives of the same size (you can do different sizes but the same makes it much easier) and ideally the same model. So say two 500GB Seagate SATA 7200.11 HDDs.

You connect them both to the motherboard on SATA channels 0 and 1 (or 1 and 2 if the board starts labels at 1, it varies, not important.). You then set the BIOS up for RAID mode and tell it to build an array. There will be instructions for this and it's not really hard, just a couple of extra steps.

What the array does in RAID 0 mode (the most common, what you'd likely be using) is it makes it so when you read or write data to the drives it will split it between both drives, one part on one, one part on the other, alternating really fast in "stripes," hence why RAID 0 is called "striping" mode. The end result here is that it can write a lot faster (sometimes almost 2x as fast) and read a lot faster that from a single drive. The downside is, since the data is all split up between the drives if one fails you are missing half you stuff, and since you're missing little pieces that add up to half of everything, none of your files can be recovered. That's why it's important to always keep up to date backups of important stuff.

As the boards you are considering have onboard RAID support you will not need a RAID card. RAID doesn't require any special cables, you just hook the drives up with SATA cables like normal. Aside from requiring two drives instead of just one, no, you don't have to buy anything special.

Make sense?

EDIT: Enginurd beat me to some of this stuff.
 
Makes perfect sense, thanks a lot guys :)

I'll probably do RAID 0. What's the BEST way to backup stuff anyway? I've had two separate drives on this computer so I've always been able to save a lot of my stuff (My music, tv shows, movies, etc) and never did any kind of backup or anything like that. I kinda wish I could get a nice big external hard drive to store my music and stuff.. since I have a ton.. and it's a pain getting it all back again ;) Same with pictures that I would hate to lose.
 
Well, I normally just back things up to DVDRs cause I'm too cheap to buy an external drive. Also, an external drive can fail just like an internal, though it's very unlikely both your internal drive and your external backup will fail at the same time. Still, DVDRs when properly cared for will last long enough that you won't remember what any of the stuff on them is anymore by the time they stop working. Plus at ~$0.05 a GB, they're cheaper than HDD space. Down side is they aren't rewriteable, you can more easily break or scratch them, and it takes time to write them (though if you keep up with things, at 16x+ not very long).
 
Pretty much, no Crysis game with the AR version is the only difference I see. "R" variants tend to be the more bare bones version of a given card/motherboard/whatever with EVGA. Same warranty, same clock speeds, just no included game.
 
Oh geez... I guess there's no point in spending so much money on the one with Crysis, especially TWO of them.. I guess they'd send me TWO Crysis games.

So there's really no difference? I should just get the AR one then :)
 
Does anyone else have a problem when it comes to networking? I'm great with computers.. but when it comes to routers and modems? I suck. There's always some kind of problem and I can never figure out what it is.

We had our cable upgraded today and had their phone service installed also. The guy had to give us a new modem because the other one wasn't compatible with the phone service. That's all fine and dandy, because I was able to get online without a problem. But I forgot to tell him that my father uses the router to get online with his laptop (wireless connection). So now I'm trying to figure out how to set this up (When we originally set it up, it honestly took an entire day to get it to work).

Every time I do the setup thing from the installation CD, it gets to the very end where it says "This may take longer than 2 minutes" (Oh, well thanks.. I guess that means it can take up to 24 hours or something?) and then when it gets to 100%, nothing happens. It just stops. I let it stay on that screen for 20 minutes and at that point, it's restarting the network it says, my internet connection stops. My father computer will then say it picked up the connection, but he can't do anything either (AOL, AIM, Internet Explorer, nothing).

So I turn the router and modem off, turn them back on after 2 minutes and once again my computer works, but his has no signal again. GOD WHY IS THIS SO FRUSTRATING?! I can fix most problems on our computers, I've reformatted from scratch many times, know how to make the computer run a bit faster, but I CAN NOT set up a network connection! If it's just my computer, I'm fine. But more than one and I'm screwed.

So of course my father has to say "Wow you can't even do this but you're going to build a computer? Just buy one. You can't do it".. and now I feel nervous and scared again :( Networking is such fail.. I hate it.

Edit: Well... I tried restarting my computer and guess what? It worked :p We both are online now with no problems. At least that instilled some more faith in my Dad of me.
 
This may sound like a stupid question, but: Which modem and router (specific brand/model) are you using?
 
tiraides said:
This may sound like a stupid question, but: Which modem and router (specific brand/model) are you using?
Click to expand...

I WAS using a Motorola SB5120 modem and a Netgear WGT264v3 router.

Now I'm still using the Netgear router, but using a Scientific Atlanta DPC2203C modem.
 
The SB5120 is one of the best cable modems around... but the issue may be with the router's configuration.

I'll try to look for a better answer for you, but try using the router's CD to reconfigure its settings.
 
tiraides said:
The SB5120 is one of the best cable modems around... but the issue may be with the router's configuration.

I'll try to look for a better answer for you, but try using the router's CD to reconfigure its settings.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I loved my Motorola motor... this new one is kind of strange.

I did edit my post above though, I ended up solving the issue just by restarting (Don't you hate when you spend hours trying to fix something, only to have it corrected by a simple restart? Although.. its better than NOT fixing the problem I guess heh). The routers CD installation thing is what gave me so many problems... Any time I need to reinstall the router, the CD's installation program always freezes for some reason.
 
Yay! Tomorrow my check should clear, and I'll be purchasing all the parts for my first build! So excited.. I'm very impatient and I want the parts to get here yesterday :p

The only thing that I'm still a bit confused about is the BIOS. I've read a few guides with step by step instructions.. but the part that confused me is the part with the numbers like so: 4-4-4-5 or something. I think it's the RAM? God, I don't remember!

Let's say that the BIOS has the numbers: 3-3-3-4 and I need to change it to something else.. How do I know which one is which number? In the guide, the guy filling it in went out of order.. So it was like 3-4-3-3 and I was totally confused on the correct order. What things are usually changed manually in the BIOS when you start up for the first time? I want to make sure I don't mess anything up :)

Also, what are the odds that with everything set up correctly, that my system will start up properly? I read about a lot of people having problems.. and it scares me. But then I think about it this way; The people who AREN'T having problems, don't come here and post about it so just because there are a lot of posts asking for help, it doesn't mean that's what happens to the majority of builds, right? I really hope this goes smoothly.. As I can be very impatient in situations where things don't work :X I am going to be very patient, and try my best, with the build though. I will go slowly and make sure I read everything and do everything right..

..And try not to break anything if I get mad about things not working :D

Also, how about defective parts? How often do you run into them? 1% of the time? 5% of the time? ALL the time!? (I doubt it haha).
 
Hold off on playing with the BIOS settings (keep everything at AUTO for the time being) until you're sure that the computer works fine. In the meanwhile, read the manual of the motherboard (when you get it) so you understand all of the features on the BIOS.
 
Sigh.. check still hasn't cleared.. It will by tomorrow, but I wanted to order my stuff tonight :( Oh well.

It has given me more time to research parts and stuff.. and I was just wondering what you guys thought was a better soundcard... The Prelude x-fi card... or the Creative fata1ity card... The Prelude is just a little bit more expensive, not by too much, so if it's better I wouldn't mind picking that instead.

I do listen to a lot of music, and really love crisp clear sounding audio... Don't know what to do!
 
I'd strongly recommend putting up a "WTB" (want to buy) thread and waiting for an original X-Fi XtremeMusic (make sure you get the full height card, not the newer half height; the half height sucks) if and only if you find that the onboard Realtek HD Audio doesn't cut it for you.

Are your speakers digitally connected, or are they connected via a standard miniplug jack? If they're digital (some of the higher end Logitechs are) the soundcard matters much less, as digital is digital, doesn't really matter what is making the ones and zeros, they're the same quality of ones and zeros. ;) The only reason to get the Prelude over the XtremeMusic would be if you have /very/ high quality analog connected speakers, as the Prelude uses higher quality amps than the X-Fis. They're the same chipset. If you're using digital you will get the exact same output from the X-Fi as you will the Prelude.

EDIT: You're getting the Z-5500s right? They use digital input, either over RCA type cables or a Sony TOSlink cable. You really don't need to spend more money on the Prelude, and may find that the digital output from the onboard audio on the P7N Diamond is plenty.
 
silent-circuit said:
I'd strongly recommend putting up a "WTB" (want to buy) thread and waiting for an original X-Fi XtremeMusic (make sure you get the full height card, not the newer half height; the half height sucks) if and only if you find that the onboard Realtek HD Audio doesn't cut it for you.

Are your speakers digitally connected, or are they connected via a standard miniplug jack? If they're digital (some of the higher end Logitechs are) the soundcard matters much less, as digital is digital, doesn't really matter what is making the ones and zeros, they're the same quality of ones and zeros. ;) The only reason to get the Prelude over the XtremeMusic would be if you have /very/ high quality analog connected speakers, as the Prelude uses higher quality amps than the X-Fis. They're the same chipset. If you're using digital you will get the exact same output from the X-Fi as you will the Prelude.

EDIT: You're getting the Z-5500s right? They use digital input, either over RCA type cables or a Sony TOSlink cable. You really don't need to spend more money on the Prelude, and may find that the digital output from the onboard audio on the P7N Diamond is plenty.
Click to expand...

I was originally going with the fata1ity card... It's just so expensive, that I was looking it over and deciding if it was really worth it. I mean, the mobo itself comes with a decent soundcard I think, so it says. If the mobo is coming "with Soundblaster X-Fi Extreme Audio" does that mean it's a separate sound card?.. and it's not like built into the mobo?

I'm going from my Audigy 2 to whatever is on the new system.. I guess whatever I get will be an upgrade to this, although my Audigy 2 is actually really nice :) In my opinion at least. I also have decent speakers... I bought this Logitech speaker set, but the subwoofer that came with it wasn't as nice as the older one I had.. But I used the other speakers from the new one. The wires didn't match up properly since it was two different models.. But I got it to work even though like the front left speaker is plugged into the front back port thing.. And by calibrating the speakers a certain way, I got it to work really really well... Music sounds so amazing on this computer...

This system really was worth the $2500 I paid 5 years ago for it :) I would buy it again if I had to do it again... Since I'm going to be keeping it to use along with the new PC, I wonder if it would pay off eventually to spend like $200 on upgrading things on this one.. I don't know. There seem to be some decent AGP video cards out there that are pretty cheap... And I already have a gig of RAM, and would be happy with just 2 on here instead of going for 4. The sound card is fine... Bigger hard drives would be nicer since I only have 250GB of space... I fill that up fast!

If planning on keeping this older computer to use sometimes, does it make sense to eventually upgrade it a little to at least keep it working?

Or... If I don't like the sound in the new system I get, maybe I can put my Audigy 2 in the NEW system.. hmm.. I don't know if that would work heh.
 
Wait wait. Your board has an X-Fi chip onboard. I forgot. Do not buy a card. It's the same hardware. Exact same chip. You'd be throwing money away.
 
DDR is overpriced, so I wouldn't bother upgrading to 2GB unless you really needed it. Same with the vidcard -- no point in upgrading unless you need more performance for something. If you plan on watching HD video content on it, then you could get an HD2600, or wait for the HD3000 series from ATI (I don't think NVIDIA plans to release anymore AGP cards). HDDs would be the only thing I'd upgrade, if you wanted to use it as a server or you just want more space.
 
Ah the other post went through afterall... Disregard this, I can't remember how to delete it.
 
So uhm.. what would you do in this situation :p

You just bought all your computer parts.. and a nice freaking $200 case that you fell in love with. However, upon further inspection.. you find the newer version of said case, for about $30 more.. and you fell in love with that one even more. Removable motherboard tray... PSU seems it will fit better... Nicer side window... Just all around prettier...

Would you buy the nicer case, pay for the shipping for it, then pay the 15% restocking fee to return the other one for refund... Or no? It's probably not worth it.. But this is a lot of money either way, $200 or $230, not much difference to me.. And it's something I'll be using for a looong time and looking at since it will be up on a desk..

Am I just being shallow or something? haha.. I really do want the other case though, I'm so tempted to just buy it right now... Is returning an item to NewEgg for a refund a difficult process? Especially when returning a giant case?
 
.. It went through like 3 times now. I need to delete these extra posts.
 
You double-posted.

It's a waste. I would not recommend getting the other case. A removable motherboard tray is pretty much useless unless you're rebuilding constantly... which you won't be. The PSU will fit fine. If you don't like the window you can always cut a bigger one yourself.
 
silent-circuit said:
You double-posted.

It's a waste. I would not recommend getting the other case. A removable motherboard tray is pretty much useless unless you're rebuilding constantly... which you won't be. The PSU will fit fine.
Click to expand...

Actually I think I may have triple posted! While I was making the post, either the forums or my internet connection messed up a bit and well.. I don't know, and for some reason I can't remember how to delete the post heh.

Well I guess that will save me about $70 altogether with the shipping and fees and stuff... I wish I didn't see the other one though now ;)
 
If you REALLY REALLY want the newer case instead, find out if Newegg has shipped your case already. If they have, you have the option to reject delivery, if the UPS guy knocks (which they rarely do around my town). If they leave it there, you can still reject it by calling them to come back and pick it up, lol. Before you do any of that, though, chat with an online rep at newegg.com. Let them know you want to return the case you bought and purchase a different case. The purchase of a new case should waive the restocking fee, and the delivery rejection from UPS will save you the cost of having to ship the case back.
 
enginurd said:
If you REALLY REALLY want the newer case instead, find out if Newegg has shipped your case already. If they have, you have the option to reject delivery, if the UPS guy knocks (which they rarely do around my town). If they leave it there, you can still reject it by calling them to come back and pick it up, lol. Before you do any of that, though, chat with an online rep at newegg.com. Let them know you want to return the case you bought and purchase a different case. The purchase of a new case should waive the restocking fee, and the delivery rejection from UPS will save you the cost of having to ship the case back.
Click to expand...

It all shipped :( Plus, it's coming together with 15 other items so I don't think I could just reject the one item haha. Oh well.. the one I got is nice but.. I hate when you see something nicer after you buy something!

Like I've been hearing horrible things about the monitor I got.. and now I'm worried, and it was so expensive! Something about input lag... But I've been using a 15" Dell CRT monitor for 5 years so I think the LCD monitor I got should still be pretty nice :)
 
I heart you, NewEgg, I heart you very much! Well.. at least SO far.

I just got four packages in the mail... Every item aside from the PSU, Processor and Case. First off, the monitor is so beautiful... I really didn't think 24" was going to be THAT huge. For some reason it didn't click that 24" = 2 feet. It's huge! I'm pleased.

Second.. the speakers! Oh my god, why are they 55 pounds!? I can't even get that box upstairs! My old Logitech speakers are probably 10-15 pounds! All the boxes came in great condition- Well, the speaker box was a little.. askew? The tape was almost completely off the top but I'm sure they are fine. The boxes aren't crushed or tampered with or anything.

So now I have to sit here and look at all the parts until Monday when the case gets here! Oh sweet sweet torture... Although.. I think I may hook the monitor up to this PC for a few days.. just to see what it's like ;)
 
The speakers are heavy because they don't suck. ;)

With speakers, heavy is generally good. Stiffer materials are heavier, stiffer enclosures mean cleaner sound. Larger magnets are heavier as well, and larger magnets are good.

Of course this is a vast oversimplification. But still.
 
silent-circuit said:
The speakers are heavy because they don't suck. ;)

With speakers, heavy is generally good. Stiffer materials are heavier, stiffer enclosures mean cleaner sound. Larger magnets are heavier as well, and larger magnets are good.

Of course this is a vast oversimplification. But still.
Click to expand...

Haha well that DOES make sense ;)

My PSU just got here too.. Wow that thing is heavier than I expected also! So now I'm just waiting on the processor and case.. Waiting is so hard!

..Which is why I am in the process of trying to setup the sexy new monitor to this computer.. just to try it out :) But it's so big.. I didn't really plan this out, and I have no room for it yet! oops!
 
Wow.. I just connected the monitor (Samsung Syncmaster 245T) to my computer and... it's gorgeous. Don't see any dead pixels, it's absolutely HUGE, contrast and brightness is wonderful.. I'm so happy!

But I have a quick question.. Digital and analog.. I don't understand heh. Digital is what we use now, right? They each use a different wire? I have the blue and white port on my video card, in back of my PC. I plugged it into the blue one.. Which is that? I should read the manual but I want to keep everything else closed, including the CD, until I actually set up the new PC. I downloaded the drivers and such, I just can't figure out if I'm installing digital or analog!

Also, the power cord it came with is extremely short.. so I am using the one from my old monitor, this is okay, isn't it? Or should I switch them? I'll have to rewire my entire room though, because the surge protector won't reach over here.
 
Yeah, power cords are pretty much all the same. If the end fits in (presumably it does...) you're fine.

You want to use the wider white port, not the skinnier blue one. The blue one is a standard DB15 VGA port (analog) while the white one is DVI-D or DVI-I (digital only, or digital and analog combined).

And yes, digital is what we use now. ;)
 
silent-circuit said:
Yeah, power cords are pretty much all the same. If the end fits in (presumably it does...) you're fine.

You want to use the wider white port, not the skinnier blue one. The blue one is a standard DB15 VGA port (analog) while the white one is DVI-D or DVI-I (digital only, or digital and analog combined).

And yes, digital is what we use now. ;)
Click to expand...

Ahhh, thanks! I'm happy my 9700 Pro even has the white port on it! The only weird thing right now is... I of course can't get my resolution over 1280x1074 on this PC, so everything is like huge! But it's way nicer than using my old Dell for now ;)

I'm going to go ahead and switch it to the white wire then :D I was also going to hook the speakers up to see how they sound but yeah.. Like I said before...

.. I can't get them upstairs on my own. STILL amazed at how heavy they are. I mean.. 55 pounds is a freaking LOT :)
 
Could always open the box and bring them up in pieces. That said, the subwoofer alone is going to be a good 30 lbs.
 
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