LG 48CX

[kalston]

Oh yeah I'm sure they could burn things faster if they had like a black screen and HDR on, with a bright logo displayed. The just figured that was not very realistic use case.

I don't think UI elements are supposed to be that bright anyway, or subtitles for that matter. But it's an issue I often see, even in native HDR content. I remember watching an Asian HDR movie and the subs were burning at full nits, while the movie was dark. Absolutely unbearable and ruined the experience in a dark room honestly.

 

[MistaSparkul]

UI elements are not supposed to be that bright but unfortunately RTX HDR does not seem to be able to tell that UI is just UI and should not be boosted. A lot of games these days with native HDR implementations will also have a separate option for UI brightness allowing you to turn it all the way down in order to slow down burn in. On top of that, the more recent OLED displays have logo detection built right in and after seeing my cousin's CX get burn in that way, I immediately turned the logo detection on my PG32UCDP back on lol. It does seem to work very effectively at lowering the brightness of my UI without killing the overall brightness too much, I know some other displays it's simply too aggressive and turning on logo detection will cause you to lose a ton of overall HDR brightness.

 

[SH1]

Thanks...I'll go turn logo detection (GSR) back on too. Will see how much it effects desktop usage, but I think ASBL/TPC is the main thing broken on these earlier C series. And that would still be off. Maybe I can split the difference.

 

[elvn]

lol look at this point it doesn't matter what he did or didn't do, the point I'm making is that you CAN get burn in relatively fast if the conditions are right so people should just exercise caution. I've seen too many posts bragging about zero burn in after X amount of years/hours, well same exact case here, zero burn in for 4 years/11,000 hours and it all went down the drain very quickly.

Right, and some of those cautions are not breaking asbl, using logo detection and pixel shift, and maybe using "turn off the screen" (emitters) when you've stalled out your FoV movement and aren't actively playing the game. But sure, it's cooked now, but it still makes me curious of the usage habits and possible warranty voiding practice vs timescale.

UI elements are not supposed to be that bright but unfortunately RTX HDR does not seem to be able to tell that UI is just UI and should not be boosted. A lot of games these days with native HDR implementations will also have a separate option for UI brightness allowing you to turn it all the way down in order to slow down burn in. On top of that, the more recent OLED displays have logo detection built right in and after seeing my cousin's CX get burn in that way, I immediately turned the logo detection on my PG32UCDP back on lol. It does seem to work very effectively at lowering the brightness of my UI without killing the overall brightness too much, I know some other displays it's simply too aggressive and turning on logo detection will cause you to lose a ton of overall HDR brightness.

Like I suggested earlier, I think they could do a lot more with logo detection as well as adding active masking field creation with opacity % , especially for huds and such. I wish they would dev that right into the screen OSD controls/remotes functionality.

 

[MistaSparkul]

Thanks...I'll go turn logo detection (GSR) back on too. Will see how much it effects desktop usage, but I think ASBL/TPC is the main thing broken on these earlier C series. And that would still be off. Maybe I can split the difference.

I don't think you have much to worry about. Remember that CX got a whole 11k hours of use with no hint of burn in and everything that should be disabled from the service menu was disabled from day 1. And honestly if it wasn't for playing an MMO with RTX HDR for 400 hours then I bet it would have just kept on trucking without any problem for thousands more hours. He isn't even bummed about it at all, if anything now he's just excited he can use his Geeksquad warranty to upgrade to a C5 and do it all over again lol. Logo detection will of course be enabled on the new TV

 

[Advil]

Well, I'll be finding out what the longer end looks like, because I've only probably got less than 50 hours in HDR on mine, and it was never much past 80% max even for that.

The rest has been with OLED light at 23.

I have over 1000 hours of one game on this thing, and no HUD burn in yet. Not saying it wont, but next month this thing will be 4 years old. And still under warranty. Lol.

 

[XoR_]

I don't think you have much to worry about. Remember that CX got a whole 11k hours of use with no hint of burn in and everything that should be disabled from the service menu was disabled from day 1. And honestly if it wasn't for playing an MMO with RTX HDR for 400 hours then I bet it would have just kept on trucking without any problem for thousands more hours. He isn't even bummed about it at all, if anything now he's just excited he can use his Geeksquad warranty to upgrade to a C5 and do it all over again lol. Logo detection will of course be enabled on the new TV

The question is: how the TV was used for these 11K hours?
I guess lots of gaming was involved and from the disabling protections and nature of this incident I would assume display was used with fairly luminous settings most of the time.

If that is the case 11K hours sounds pretty good and gives some peace of mind for us OLED enthusiasts.

 

[MistaSparkul]

The question is: how the TV was used for these 11K hours?
I guess lots of gaming was involved and from the disabling protections and nature of this incident I would assume display was used with fairly luminous settings most of the time.

If that is the case 11K hours sounds pretty good and gives some peace of mind for us OLED enthusiasts.

11k hours in nearly the worst possible scenario sorta. All protections disabled in the service menu from day one. Windows screensaver was used however alongside hiding the taskbar. SDR brightness was set to around 120 nits. TONS of HDR gaming was done on it but each title never exceeded 150 hours individually as they were mostly single player games. So yeah if you just use a screensaver and hide your task bar, 11k+ hours of zero burn in is possible. It's when you want to play 1 game while having it's UI being blasted with high brightness for hundreds upon hundreds of hours that you will start to run into problems.

 

[MistaSparkul]

Well, I'll be finding out what the longer end looks like, because I've only probably got less than 50 hours in HDR on mine, and it was never much past 80% max even for that.

The rest has been with OLED light at 23.

I have over 1000 hours of one game on this thing, and no HUD burn in yet. Not saying it wont, but next month this thing will be 4 years old. And still under warranty. Lol.

If you have the logo detection still enabled then you're probably fine to be honest.

 

[tunatime]

This is what my 55 in looks like after 4+ years of 4hr+ a day PC gaming. The blue box is form the website not the tv.

 

[XoR_]

If you have the logo detection still enabled then you're probably fine to be honest.

You are right but no one likes these features.
Pixel shifter should help here. There would probably still be some pixels which would have visible burn-in but with thin text like what can be seen in the picture it should not be possible to tell HP status of the panel and at most there would be darker blobs where the HUDs were displayed.

That said the best solution to burn-in is to get extended warranty for burn-in and play game with auto HDR with offensive HUDs for hundreds of hours just before the warranty expires.

11k hours in nearly the worst possible scenario sorta. All protections disabled in the service menu from day one. Windows screensaver was used however alongside hiding the taskbar. SDR brightness was set to around 120 nits. TONS of HDR gaming was done on it but each title never exceeded 150 hours individually as they were mostly single player games. So yeah if you just use a screensaver and hide your task bar, 11k+ hours of zero burn in is possible. It's when you want to play 1 game while having it's UI being blasted with high brightness for hundreds upon hundreds of hours that you will start to run into problems.

Probably good idea to enable all that stuff back when sending TV for RMA.

 

[elvn]

You can get a 42" C2 or 48" C# for $770 - $800, maybe less toward black friday/end of year deals. Not dirt cheap but still not bad. I think I've seen 48" screens for $650 new rarely.

Say 8 hours a day, 365 would be 2,920 hours a year. That's a pretty high number there I'd think, what I'd consider very high for most people who aren't employed as a streamer or otherwise using the screen for employment/revenue generation, unless multiple people are taking turns on the screen working different shifts or something. I guess it's not that hard to get to if using it heavily 6 hours a day mon-thursday (1664 hrs a year) , plus 10 - 12 hour stretches every day on weekends incl fridays, like if you got out of work/school at 4pm on friday and played a mmo from 4pm to 3 - 4 am, then 12 hrs on both sat and sunday, every week without fail (1560 hrs a year) ~~> 3,344 hours a year, though holiday stretches could boost that a little if using time off to live on the screen instead of doing anything else, but it's still a pretty large figure compared to what I think most users would put on it. So 11,000 hours at 2,920 hours a year (8hrs every single day on average) would be 3.77 years. 11,000 hour mark on that oled using the 3,344 hours version would only be 3.29 year. I think that's a pretty extreme use case though.

That's also if, during the 8 hours a day, he didn't have a screen blacking screen saver on (ss that could activate during his fav games while idle, which isn't always the case when afk in an active game world) . . and/or use the "turn off the screen" trick (I think that's a great way to cut down wasted time you don't have eyes on the screen) . . to cut those hours of emitters flared bright down. Those screen "time outs" add up cumulatively, over years of use. Those figures are all using the 11,000 hour mark as the measure, which may be artificially short due to his usage practices, incl RTX HDR "HDR injection" of SDR content flaring his UI nits, and whatever burn-in-avoidance measures he disabled, etc. If he hadn't had those usage habits, the lifespan of the screen likely stretch out a lot farther even in that high usage scenario. I'd also suggest that using a different screen for static desktop/app use, for those where that is a viable solution, would cut down the # of hours a lot for most people, and hours of static desktop app use at that (though desktop/app use is usually done at lower SDR brightness levels even if white app windows can be hard to avoid for some things).

. . . . .

I guess from what was said, artifically pumping your UI brightness to HDR using HDR injection that stretches a SDR curve up into higher nit ranges generically is a bad idea if you are living your 2nd life in a MMO for much of your time. I still think a masking tech would be very useful for increasing OLED longevity though.


I did experiment with a masking app with opacity settings per mask that was designed for artists in windows at one point, but I found it buggy so stopped using it. Theoretically something like that would be a nice option imo.

Thread replies where I showed some screenshots of masking UI elements (screen shots from using masking in actual gameplay) linked below here, along with the images from those two replies. The masking was actually considerably brighter / much less opacity, with a lot greater visibility of the HUD in HDR in the game. The screenshots were SDR so the masking areas came out darker looking. You could set the opacity of each mask individually. It was also a quick test, if taking time I could have drawn the mask shapes better, aligned to the UI elements closer perfectly with less wasted space instead of just slapping a few basic shapes up.


https://hardforum.com/threads/why-oled-for-pc-use.2025448/post-1045631106

https://hardforum.com/threads/why-oled-for-pc-use.2025448/post-1045631291

 

[tongshadow]

Soooo if you wanna play any MMO with HDR you can't buy an OLED or it's considered neglect?

As long as you dont use RTX HDR, you can.
The issue is that FF14 wasnt designed with HDR in mind, so when you use RTX HDR to get "more brightness" (which isnt really the point of HDR), you're also making text incredibly bright. In a game properly designed for HDR, text will NOT look very bright, preventing that kind of burn-in.

Pure user issue.

 

[SH1]

As long as you dont use RTX HDR, you can.
The issue is that FF14 wasnt designed with HDR in mind, so when you use RTX HDR to get "more brightness" (which isnt really the point of HDR), you're also making text incredibly bright. In a game properly designed for HDR, text will NOT look very bright, preventing that kind of burn-in.

Pure user issue.

Is it not actually expanding the color space? Saw a quote from Nvidia to that effect. Though it was discussing the video version.

Certainly helps pump some visual life into older games. Looks pretty great.

Also has received some praise regarding looking better than some native HDR implementations...

 

[MistaSparkul]

As long as you dont use RTX HDR, you can.
The issue is that FF14 wasnt designed with HDR in mind, so when you use RTX HDR to get "more brightness" (which isnt really the point of HDR), you're also making text incredibly bright. In a game properly designed for HDR, text will NOT look very bright, preventing that kind of burn-in.

Pure user issue.

lmao user issue? Buddy you make it seem as if he would never get burn in if he didn't play with RTX HDR which is just flat out false. He still would have gotten burn in, it just would have taken longer so instead of 400 hours maybe it would happen after 2-3000 hours instead. The reality is that the CX panel isn't that great when it comes to burn in, RTings data has proven this despite all the user praise that they have no burn in. RTX HDR is an absolute game changer, I wouldn't skip out on not using it just because I'm afraid of the burn in boogie man. Again it just comes down to the fact that his CX already had 11,000 hours of use time on it and the panel being subpar for burn in. He will be getting a C5 next year and yes he is going to play games with RTX HDR still. The C5 panel is going to be a lot better than the CX for burn in and to top it off, LG has finally fixed the auto dimming behavior so there's no need to enter the service menu and disable it anymore.

 

[MistaSparkul]

Is it not actually expanding the color space? Saw a quote from Nvidia to that effect. Though it was discussing the video version.

Certainly helps pump some visual life into older games. Looks pretty great.

Also has received some praise regarding looking better than some native HDR implementations...

RTX HDR is an absolute game changer but if you plan to use it in a game that you will sink hundreds to thousands of hours into and you have a CX then I would probably make sure you keep the logo dimming enabled.

 

[XoR_]

I did experiment with a masking app with opacity settings per mask that was designed for artists in windows at one point, but I found it buggy so stopped using it. Theoretically something like that would be a nice option imo.

Using black boxes isn't good imho or any sharp edges.. Ideally shader or display's built-in feature would limit contrast as much as brightness and also have smooth gradient on the edges rather than sharp shapes.

 

[elvn]

Using black boxes isn't good imho or any sharp edges.. Ideally shader or display's built-in feature would limit contrast as much as brightness and also have smooth gradient on the edges rather than sharp shapes.

They wouldn't have to be black, you can change the opacity. In fact, in game they were much lighter than that, they look really dark because the SDR screenshot was captured from HDR. They could also match a lot closer than that, like the magic wand tool in photoshop doing a smart selection tool. I just made those cutout masks like objects in gimp/photoshop quickly to test the concept. It worked well as far as masking went, the app itself was just buggy.

I was saying it would be great if you could do something like that in the OSD of the screen itself (smart selecting and/or building shapes/areas). Smart selection/AI~machine learning could be a part of that optimally.

 

[SH1]

RTX HDR is an absolute game changer but if you plan to use it in a game that you will sink hundreds to thousands of hours into and you have a CX then I would probably make sure you keep the logo dimming enabled.

Restored in service menu (GSR) and user menu. Initially set to High. Seeing if I can notice it.

 

[MistaSparkul]

Just another example that burn in after a few hundred hours is possible: https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED_Gaming/comments/1fd0pkw/lg_oled_27gr95qlb_burnin_after_344h_of_usage/

No idea under what conditions the monitor was used and what OLED care options were enabled/disabled but that doesn't matter, just baby these things if you want them to last I guess.

 

[Astral Abyss]

Just another example that burn in after a few hundred hours is possible: https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED_Gaming/comments/1fd0pkw/lg_oled_27gr95qlb_burnin_after_344h_of_usage/

No idea under what conditions the monitor was used and what OLED care options were enabled/disabled but that doesn't matter, just baby these things if you want them to last I guess.

That's incredible considering how dim that monitor is and how many safety features it has to prevent that. I had that monitor for a year and played Diablo 4 in HDR all the time. No burn in like that at all. I did make sure pixel cleaning ran as required every 4+ hours of gaming. Who knows if this guy did if he doesn't even know where the setting is at.

 

[MistaSparkul]

That's incredible considering how dim that monitor is and how many safety features it has to prevent that. I had that monitor for a year and played Diablo 4 in HDR all the time. No burn in like that at all. I did make sure pixel cleaning ran as required every 4+ hours of gaming. Who knows if this guy did if he doesn't even know where the setting is at.

Shouldn't pixel cleaning be automatic? If not then that is a huge design issue. I don't think there would be a setting that allows you to turn it off or change it to manual only.

 

[elvn]

Shouldn't pixel cleaning be automatic? If not then that is a huge design issue. I don't think there would be a setting that allows you to turn it off or change it to manual only.

Pretty sure it does it after so many hours. I remember hearing that is had to be off 4 hours for the pixel comparison routine to run. It may run some kind of small pixel evening routine regularly. The diagnostics used to be done with circuitry on the panel at the expense of electric use, and now I believe they have been moving to using AI/machine learning to decide that in newer models instead, in order to make the screen output and power use requirements more optimal supposedly w/o need of that circuitry/hardware. Once it decides that the emitter levels are far enough burned down in relation to each other, or every few thousand hours, I believe the screen does the big emitter leveling one with the white line burning the emitters down to even again (and then boosting the output back to normal using the reserved power/brightness buffer).



. . . .

. . . .

The Pixel Refresher feature, built into LG OLED TVs, automatically detects pixel deterioration through periodic scanning, compensating for it as needed. It also senses any TFT (Thin Film Transistor) voltage changes during power off to detect and correct pixel degradation by comparing it with a set reference value.

Looked it up, here is the deal from LG's website below. According to that, the big wear-evening routine operates automatically after every 2,000 hours of use. " Manual Pixel Refresher is also available in case you notice any image retention or when you get a reminder to run it after 2,000 hours of watching".

Shouldn't pixel cleaning be automatic?

I'm not certain but I believe that it may automatically run that after 4 hours of being off even if you chose "no" at the pixel refresher prompt. If so, when you turn the tv on, it will probably be showing that white line if the routine is still running. There may be some smaller pixel wear/output adjustment "pixel refresher" that happens after the diagnostic routines activate after the tv has been off for 4 hours (more regularly, not soley when at every 2000 hour milestone).

You do have to leave it plugged in and powered for the automatic wear-evening diagnostic measures though, so anyone turning off smart outlets or smart switches, breakers that the TV is on could miss that. That could be a concern for open box items that may have been on showroom floors in stores like best buy for example, where they might turn all the breakers off after the store closes where in a home the tv would usually be powered but in the idle "off" state.

. . . . .

. . . . .

LG OLED TV Technology for Image Retention Prevention and Recovery


| Screen Shift |

This technology reduces the potential of retention when the screen image is fixed for a long time. Screen Shift moves the pixels of the static area.


| Logo Luminance Adjustment |

This technology detects on-screen logos and reduces the luminance in the affected areas.


| TPC (Temporal Peak Luminance Control) |

LG OLED TVs have technology to detect which stationary images pose a high risk of retention and adjust the pixel luminance accordingly.



- Retention Recovery -

LG OLED TVs also support recovery technology for Image Retention that may occur when consumers are using the display out of normal viewing conditions.



*“Out of normal viewing conditions” refers to when a static image is displayed for an extended period.



| Pixel Refresher |

The Pixel Refresher feature, built into LG OLED TVs, automatically detects pixel deterioration through periodic scanning, compensating for it as needed. It also senses any TFT (Thin Film Transistor) voltage changes during power off to detect and correct pixel degradation by comparing it with a set reference value.






How is Image Retention Recovery Technology activated?



| Automatic Pixel Refresher — For Effortless Image Retention Recovery |


. . . After every four hours of cumulative use

Pixel Refresher is automatically operated when you turn off the TV after watching it for more than four hours in total. For example, if you watched TV for two hours yesterday and three hours today (more than four hours in total), Pixel Refresher will automatically run, deal with potential image retention issues and reset its operation time.
*This function does not initiate if the TV is not plugged in.

. . . After 2,000 hours of cumulative use

After watching for a total of 2,000 hours or more (five hours per day for a period of one year) the Pixel Refresher is automatically operated, and the function runs for about an hour once you turn off the TV. You may see some vertical lines on the screen during this process, however, this is not a malfunction. It is designed to remove Image Retention by scrolling a horizontal bar down the screen.

The Pixel Refresher automatically runs according to your TV’s condition or you can run it manually whenever you need.

- - - - - - -

| Manual Pixel Refresher — For Control of Image Retention Recovery |


. . . Manual Pixel Refresher is also available in case you notice any image retention or when you get a reminder to run it after 2,000 hours of watching. Follow these steps for manual start:

First, long press the setting button on the remote control to enter the settings menu
[Setting] → [Picture] → [OLED Panel Setting] → [Pixel Refresher]

*Please note that the Pixel Refresher function will stop if the TV is turned on while it is in operation.