Let's Talk about Hackers

[Leqion2012]

Exactly

 

[socK]

entering thread for story time

I was banned from Super Monday Night Combat for cheating, the banlist was mostly community driven, meaning anyone could submit something suspicious and one dude judged it. I got matched against idiots, ended up stomping the fuck out of a game at like 4 in the morning, someone submitted it, and apparently mashing dopes into paste that hard was enough to err on the banhammer side.

Steam account blacklisted from game, fuck. 8 year old clean Steam account, 4 year clean QL account, PB bans clean, nothing on me from any game ever, etc etc. Ok, what the fuck is the appeal process?

They set you up a new account, gift you the character you were playing, give you a fresh config file, and have you stream yourself playing live for a second judgement. If you can presumably do just as good, under pressure, where they literally get to watch you start the game, then...

I was told after that I apparently the first (and maybe still only) person to successfully appeal it. I still have the video. It utterly ruined any desire to ever play the game again, but it was still pretty amusing.

 

[jojo69]

cool story bro

really

 

[castun]

Legally if they have digital copywrite on the software its no different then violating the TOS on any digital property.

Which means what though? The way I figured, it was that ToS were only good for listing the reasons they could revoke your right to use the software or account, nothing more.

 

[castun]

Wrong. Ill go ahead and chime in because i feel like it.

Most hacks are traceable. VAC may be a slow old dinosaur but guess what. Its very effective and has ZERO false positives. The way that VAC works is it constantly scans your hard drive and RAM for strings patterns of cheats.

Have i cheated before? Yes. One time. i felt it was important to use what i had to deal with to further learn about it more and to teach my admins what to look for. My account was in fact banned 3 weeks later. VAC also doesnt just ban per game. It bans per engine. If you cheat in Counter Strike Source then you are banned on all Orange Box engine games.

Ive been a leader/owner or whatever you want to call it of numerous clans and many gaming community startups. When you run a organization that prides itself in dealing with cheaters and has a good atmosphere then you get well known. Thats where people want to hang out and game. The big thing now is any kid thinks he can start his own thing and is very experienced in the admin world and you get a kid on a powertrip that thinks anyone better then they are are cheaters. I welcome high skilled players into servers i run because i feel its important for people to know whos legit and who isnt. Often ive had to vouch for said players because many people cant tell who is and isnt properly.

Like others said. Your OP is stupidity at its finest. Play on good servers with good people that are ran by good communities and you wont have these problems.

I agree that playing only on servers that are well moderated is your best defense against cheaters, as well as avoiding certain server types. I haven't played BF3 for a year, bit I played pretty heavily for a few months and have only ever seen a positive hacker a couple times. That's not to say there weren't more that were just playing smart though. I've heard that most cheaters flocked to the 24/7 Metro servers so I never joined them.

 

[FearTheCow]

Legally if they have digital copywrite on the software its no different then violating the TOS on any digital property.

Lets think about what you said here and apply it to another similiar situation.

I setup a website selling illegal drugs, before you can enter the site it says that no law enforcement can enter, nor can anything inside the website be used against me, hitting "enter" means you accept these terms.

With what you have said I should be able to get away with selling drugs and never have to worry about going to jail.

 

[TheMadHatterXxX]

entering thread for story time

I was banned from Super Monday Night Combat for cheating, the banlist was mostly community driven, meaning anyone could submit something suspicious and one dude judged it. I got matched against idiots, ended up stomping the fuck out of a game at like 4 in the morning, someone submitted it, and apparently mashing dopes into paste that hard was enough to err on the banhammer side.

Steam account blacklisted from game, fuck. 8 year old clean Steam account, 4 year clean QL account, PB bans clean, nothing on me from any game ever, etc etc. Ok, what the fuck is the appeal process?

They set you up a new account, gift you the character you were playing, give you a fresh config file, and have you stream yourself playing live for a second judgement. If you can presumably do just as good, under pressure, where they literally get to watch you start the game, then...

I was told after that I apparently the first (and maybe still only) person to successfully appeal it. I still have the video. It utterly ruined any desire to ever play the game again, but it was still pretty amusing.

I don't fucking believe you, lets see that video so we can judge too.

 

[socK]

I thought it was still on my twitch.tv account, it was automatically saved there for a while but it looks like it's gone now It was like an hour long and spanned 3 games I think.

But yes, that's seriously how you had to appeal bans for that game (or at least how you used to have to), go ask on their forums if you don't believe it. They had no anti-cheat other than demos people sent in (which didn't even have crosshairs if I remember right when you viewed them) so your fate was seemingly in the hands of one guy watching a demo play back in a fairly broken environment. I had to make a new steam account, have the guy generate me a code to get the character, and then play it while he watched.

It wasn't like I had just started playing either:
My Activity
488.3 hrs on record

I had over 750 games played.

edit: finally remembered my fucking forums account
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/10565193/loldotpng.png

and so it was done, and successfully appealed.

The point I was trying to get at and not being very clear is that live streaming is a pretty decent way to back yourself up, imo and it'd be pretty neato if Steam had a built in function for it.

 

[castun]

Lets think about what you said here and apply it to another similiar situation.

I setup a website selling illegal drugs, before you can enter the site it says that no law enforcement can enter, nor can anything inside the website be used against me, hitting "enter" means you accept these terms.

With what you have said I should be able to get away with selling drugs and never have to worry about going to jail.

You also forgot about the part where the officers themselves would go to jail instead for breaking the terms.

But yeah, that's basically what I'm getting at. ToSs or EULAs still have to adhere to any laws that are on the books. They can't call something a criminal act just because they said it was. The part about copyrighting would only apply if a anyone (a game company) were to reverse engineer the cheat in order to come up with their own version of said cheat. It says nothing about using the info to patch up security flaws in the game to prevent the cheat from working.

If you release a hack that takes advantage of a security flaw in Windows, do you think you could really sue Microsoft for using that info to close the security flaw?

 

[FearTheCow]

Wait, I think we have it wrong, in your example Microsoft couldn't patch the security flaw using information from the website since the TOS/EULA said they weren't allowed in...

 

[NastyNative]

So this thread has gotten interesting.
So Admins are going to save us all?... this is the best you all can come up with? LOL

I'm still a big believer that you take away these lil shits Steam Library and we get rid of A SHIT LOAD of hackers. I can see why Hackers on the [H] forums would not like this idea.
Who would even try a hack if you knew your library would be taken away?.... thats right no one.

Cutting off your hand was a joke but fuck it why not lets add that as a consequense.

I'm far from a rager or uptight gamer or what ever you guys call it. I just enjoy gaming with fair players I dont care if they are better than me just as long as they did it fairly.

The main reason I posted this thread was the amount of Hackers in WarZ.
I do understand why alot of people hate the game. This game doesnt hold your lil hand like the rest.
Its a very extreme game made for extreme players. The reason lil girls bitch about is because
they run around like idiots and get killed for no reason. Thats part of the game deal with it.
Instead they go bitching about it. The reason I bitch about it cause I get killed by the magic hammer , wall hackers and aimbots. I enjoy having a good shoot out with fair players and winning or losing it dont matter. Currently over 50% of the players
are all hacking in WarZ and thats a fact, the main reason the game has such bad fame.
The rest is lil girls that cant handle the heat and they go crying for their money back.

BF3 is a little different and I know people that use hacks , but BF3 hacks are much different.
It slightly increasing their stats like having a lil more life , being able to have an edge over the
rest of the players so its not noticable by you, admins or my self.
Also these players using hacks have told me they can tell who is aimboting on the server,
Basically the Aimbot is always locked on you and when ever the hacker wants he can kill you. When your using an Aimbot you can tell who is locking on to you with this software
and its alot more people than you all think. Hackers are smart they are not out there going ape shit with their aimbots, they just use it as a slight edge over the rest of the players.
They are not looking to make people rage, they just want to have better K/Ds and stats thats all.

I piss on Tos and EULA law...

We need consequenses for hacks or else your all correct. Everyone is going to continue hacking and its becoming almost a part of having good stats and being recognized as a good player. If people want to hack they can make hacker only servers and they can have at it all they want. Leave us fair players to play and enjoy a game they way we purchased it.

 

[rudy]

Nasty I am glad you hate hackers but you seriously let your emotion get to you then you say things that just do not make any sense. Everything you just said in your last post is already true, if you get VAC banned your whole account cant play on any VAC secure servers, know what that means? Effectively your entire steam library is trash because almost all servers run VAC.

We already take away their steam library, the whole point is hackers know not to attach a game to a full library. They make new accounts, new ones for every game, even when they buy it, if they get VAC banned they only lose 1 game. Then they just make a new account. The only way you can solve that is if you some how tie a persons real life identity to an account so they cant just make new steam accounts every time they get a VAC ban.

The bigger problem is that companies like valve have no motivation to fix this, from a customers stand point a hacker who gets caught is twice as profitable as a non hacker.

 

[next-Jin]

I am a veteran hacker, and generally I only hack to ruin the game for people like NastyNative. It is absolutely hilarious to continually kill them or TK them for no other reason than to ruin their gaming experiences.

The greatest hacking moments were likely in CS back in the day when modifying your system clock speed drastically increased your run and firing speed. I'd start the match and within 10 seconds kill everyone on the other team with knife kills.

Unlike most hackers I do not hack to try and win or even try to hide the fact that I am killing you over and over round after round. While you are dying screaming at me over the mic I am manically laughing at people exactly like you NastyNative.

While you rage both here in the Forums and ingame, I enjoy drinking beer and relaxing playing other games doing the same thing I just got done doing to you. You are a used up gamer, and instead of simply leaving the server you stay. You stay because you want to kill me, no you NEED to kill me but you can't.

For every name you call me, for every racial slur you throw my way I laugh. I ROFL and I LULZ, I LULZ long and hard. You quit in utter frustration in the fact that I control your online gaming experience and I decide, not you, of how your game ends.

I am myg0t, and I own you.

 

[Shadohh]

Yeah, right. Like I am going to trust my Social Security number and other personal info to a company that is going to give access to any and all game companies to said info.

At the rate companies are being hacked in today's society that kind of access is just asking for a massive identity theft problem.

I bet you trusted your SS already to Verizon or ATT >.>

 

[Winwolf]

I dont like it any more than any one else but in my opinion the issue isnt nearly as bad as it was 10 years ago.

 

[Droc]

I am a veteran hacker, and generally I only hack to ruin the game for people like NastyNative. It is absolutely hilarious to continually kill them or TK them for no other reason than to ruin their gaming experiences.

The greatest hacking moments were likely in CS back in the day when modifying your system clock speed drastically increased your run and firing speed. I'd start the match and within 10 seconds kill everyone on the other team with knife kills.

Unlike most hackers I do not hack to try and win or even try to hide the fact that I am killing you over and over round after round. While you are dying screaming at me over the mic I am manically laughing at people exactly like you NastyNative.

While you rage both here in the Forums and ingame, I enjoy drinking beer and relaxing playing other games doing the same thing I just got done doing to you. You are a used up gamer, and instead of simply leaving the server you stay. You stay because you want to kill me, no you NEED to kill me but you can't.

For every name you call me, for every racial slur you throw my way I laugh. I ROFL and I LULZ, I LULZ long and hard. You quit in utter frustration in the fact that I control your online gaming experience and I decide, not you, of how your game ends.

I am myg0t, and I own you.

myg0t stopped being relevant in 2004

 

[castun]

I do understand why alot of people hate the game. This game doesnt hold your lil hand like the rest.
Its a very extreme game made for extreme players.

Pretty sure that's NOT the reason why most people hate the game.

 

[BiH115]

I am a veteran hacker, and generally I only hack to ruin the game for people like NastyNative. It is absolutely hilarious to continually kill them or TK them for no other reason than to ruin their gaming experiences.

The greatest hacking moments were likely in CS back in the day when modifying your system clock speed drastically increased your run and firing speed. I'd start the match and within 10 seconds kill everyone on the other team with knife kills.

Unlike most hackers I do not hack to try and win or even try to hide the fact that I am killing you over and over round after round. While you are dying screaming at me over the mic I am manically laughing at people exactly like you NastyNative.

While you rage both here in the Forums and ingame, I enjoy drinking beer and relaxing playing other games doing the same thing I just got done doing to you. You are a used up gamer, and instead of simply leaving the server you stay. You stay because you want to kill me, no you NEED to kill me but you can't.

For every name you call me, for every racial slur you throw my way I laugh. I ROFL and I LULZ, I LULZ long and hard. You quit in utter frustration in the fact that I control your online gaming experience and I decide, not you, of how your game ends.

I am myg0t, and I own you.

....Is uh...this shit for real?

 

[next-Jin]

....Is uh...this shit for real?

It was a pretty sad attempt to out troll a troll. Droc apparently got it. Point of the story is goto another server and stop posting retarded ass threads.

Also, if you play a game and can't win it usually means you're not very good at it. Hackers are actually a fairly rare occurance for the most part.

 

[Spewn]

I'm still a big believer that you take away these lil shits Steam Library and we get rid of A SHIT LOAD of hackers. I can see why Hackers on the [H] forums would not like this idea.Who would even try a hack if you knew your library would be taken away?.... thats right no one.

People would just make Steam accounts that would have one game on them; The game they wanted to hack in. Your idea of not allowing multiplayer unless they have more than a certain amount of money in games on their account is laughable, no publisher would ever agree to that.

Cutting off your hand...why not lets add that as a consequense.

I'm far from a rager

Wants to cut off someone's hand for cheating in a video-game.

Not a rager.

Something doesn't add up.

 

[NastyNative]

next-Jin its too bad you dont make me rage and if you want proof go look at my 1.85 KD and growing or join my TS3 and come game with us. I can tell when some one is hacking and I just simply remove my self report you and move on. I can start threads when ever I feel like it about what ever I feel like so if you think its retarded then remove your self and go hack away.

I do get upset when hackers kill me in WarZ since it take alot of time to get weapons and shit and when you are hacked you lose your time and effort. Still has not stopped me from playing and enjoying the game cause like I said "Its one of the best game IMO released in 2012". When I run into fair players and we have a shoot out its the only game that makes my heart beat so fast cause of the consequenses of being killed.

Rudy - Vac doesnt work and its not working on the games its implemented and of course it wont get your account banned for hacking BF3 which is a EA game so it doesnt work. Thats why there should be something that ties everything together to stop hackers. Thats the point of this thread.

For everyone that says that hacking is not bad you need to understand that hacks are more involved then 10 years ago, so to the rookie eye you cant see them. The fact that DayZ is moving into a stand alone game tell you that even huge game companies can't control them so they move on to stand alone single player or co-op games. If this continues what is to happen with the future of MP in games?

Spewn - go read the thread before talking abou of your ass!

 

[wonderfield]

The fact that DayZ is moving into a stand alone game tell you that even huge game companies can't control them so they move on to stand alone single player or co-op games.

The fact that DayZ is becoming a stand-alone game tells us that Bohemia wants to monetize the enormity of the mod's success. That's all.

 

[NastyNative]

The fact that DayZ is becoming a stand-alone game tells us that Bohemia wants to monetize the enormity of the mod's success. That's all.

ohh thats right cause when the mod was 1st released there were no hackers that made you fall from the sky ontop of a building and people started going ape shit and warning to quit. Their player based dropped so much that they announced a single player game for the sake of the game. A stand alone single player! You might be missing that fact!

 

[next-Jin]

next-Jin its too bad you dont make me rage and if you want proof go look at my 1.85 KD...... !

Lol you're ePro at 1.85, unfortunately for you everyone in this thread is laughing at you because unlike raging in a game of 18 your raging to a few million.

 

[LeninGHOLA]

This thread has really opened my eyes.

 

[DeathPrincess]

We need consequenses for hacks or else your all correct. Everyone is going to continue hacking and its becoming almost a part of having good stats and being recognized as a good player. If people want to hack they can make hacker only servers and they can have at it all they want. Leave us fair players to play and enjoy a game they way we purchased it.

I don't think anyone thinks good stats = good player. Usually it means someone is a boring player who just camps a corner with a shotgun or sits at the back while their team loses with a sniper or something equally dull. Someone who wont go do fun stuff because it will look bad on their "resume".

Those aren't good players, they are boring. Stats are the worst thing to happen to gaming for a long time. Playing games where people wont take shots because it will impact their hit ratio, so sit there only taking certain shots once every 2 minutes are not good players. But the stats say they are. Someone who drives a jeep covered in C4 into a tank might not also be a good player, but will have way more fun and will be way more fun to play against and with. It's just nonsense to make boring people more boring and turn games into "serious buisness".

 

[wonderfield]

Their player based dropped so much that they announced a single player game for the sake of the game. A stand alone single player! You might be missing that fact!

DayZ stand-alone is not singleplayer.

 

[castun]

ohh thats right cause when the mod was 1st released there were no hackers that made you fall from the sky ontop of a building and people started going ape shit and warning to quit. Their player based dropped so much that they announced a single player game for the sake of the game. A stand alone single player! You might be missing that fact!

The game will have a single player mode to mess around in, but that's not the primary focus of the game.

 

[Ruckus]

Are you seriously saying that because you never do something it's ok to do something drastic like what you suggest? Because that always turned out so well whenever we've done it in the real world...
I'm going to suggest that perhaps most of the "hackers" you've run into are simply people above your skill level.

I know ive been kicked from servers for "hacking" just because i owned the server admin in tf2 and quake 2 many times years ago.

 

[Krieger91]

All the hackers I have seen over the years feed on one thing. Reactions. They are basically trolls. They don't give a shit about getting high scores, they want people to go "OMFG YOU MOTHERFUCKIN ASS HOLE!!!"

When this happens occasionally in BF3 people just keep responding to the hacker when he says "lolumadbruh" and that is exactly what he wants.


To clarify, I am referring to the hackers who kill whole teams with their medkits and other obvious hacks.

 

[Spewn]

Spewn - go read the thread before talking abou of your ass!

I read the thread, sadly. You don't seem to understand the issues on which you are commenting. You're mad, I get it. Unfortunately your ideas on how to "solve" the problem are terrible at best and hilarious at worst.

 

[rudy]

All the hackers I have seen over the years feed on one thing. Reactions. They are basically trolls. They don't give a shit about getting high scores, they want people to go "OMFG YOU MOTHERFUCKIN ASS HOLE!!!"

When this happens occasionally in BF3 people just keep responding to the hacker when he says "lolumadbruh" and that is exactly what he wants.


To clarify, I am referring to the hackers who kill whole teams with their medkits and other obvious hacks.

These guys are called rage hackers if you need a "term". But really I think alot of people have little to no problem with rage hackers because they are easily identified and banned by admins, even if there is no admin you can just leave and go to a different server. The problem gets to be the other population of hackers that do try to pretend they are just good players, moving up through the leagues, always just squeezing by with that win. These are the guys that cause all the trouble, because people know they exist they often ban legit players. I even know of many good players who purposely did not play as well as they could or purposely did not press themself to their limits because of fear of getting banned. Thats pretty messed up, its like saying I can win a race by alot and break a record but I am worried I will get accused of doping so I dont try to just win it by a little. Another problem and this has happened to me is clans will not allow a good player in their clan because they are not sure if that person is clean. I find all these issues to magnify the effect and do more harm than the hacking itself. Sort of like how terrorism can kill a handful of people then cause hundreds of millions of people to wait longer in lines at the airport.

Another really bad effect is that many players who accuse others of cheating cannot ever get any better because they never believe that people can be that good. This just lowers the bar for everyone.

 

[castun]

I read the thread, sadly. You don't seem to understand the issues on which you are commenting. You're mad, I get it. Unfortunately your ideas on how to "solve" the problem are terrible at best and hilarious at worst.

He seems to be the one talking out his ass here. Then again, he did call The War Z best game of 2012, should tip everyone off right there.

 

[castun]

I even know of many good players who purposely did not play as well as they could or purposely did not press themself to their limits because of fear of getting banned. Thats pretty messed up, its like saying I can win a race by alot and break a record but I am worried I will get accused of doping so I dont try to just win it by a little. Another problem and this has happened to me is clans will not allow a good player in their clan because they are not sure if that person is clean. I find all these issues to magnify the effect and do more harm than the hacking itself. Sort of like how terrorism can kill a handful of people then cause hundreds of millions of people to wait longer in lines at the airport.

No way to get around except maybe to make sure you record yourself playing or something. But I know what you mean. Some people are just good enough to call their abilities into question.

 

[zero2dash]

After years of playing games fairly and never using a hack or a expliot I feel like the
gaming industry needs to do something serious about hackers.
I would like to see what you all think about hackers and how can we put a stop or
minimize the amount of Hackers.

Has worked wonders for all the software companies out there hasn't it?

Hackers will find a way. Period.
Most of your ideas are against the law whereas hacking is not so good luck with that.

Out of all the games I've played online in the 15+ years that it's been possible to play online, I can say with the utmost certainty that <1% of the total games I've played were ruined by hackers. I think out of all the Steam games I've played online, I've had 1 interrupted by a hacker who was kicked and VAC banned in literally 10 seconds.

But hey, if you want to 'fight the good fight', knock yourself out.

 

[Megalomaniac]

Ebay/HEAT like system to have you rated... if say 3 people post that you hacked on such a day in such a server, that conclusive enough proof for me. Your account gets disabled. First time for a month, Second time for 3 months, Third time permaban. At least it will eliminate the obvious hackers who use something like speed hacks. It might eliminate dick players also

After each game, the system will ask you to rate players that you played with (you dont have to) but you basically build up a rep of how many people trust you. Either people thought you're a hacker, negative, they weren't sure (also not good), or you get a positive score. Servers can pick what rep you need to have in order to play on them. PUBs should allow anyone, while the good servers will have stricter rules and rep scores you will have to meet. That should eliminate many of the other hackers.

All new accounts start off with a certain amount of points, like in CS ranking.

 

[DeathPrincess]

Ebay/HEAT like system to have you rated... if say 3 people post that you hacked on such a day in such a server, that conclusive enough proof for me. Your account gets disabled. First time for a month, Second time for 3 months, Third time permaban. At least it will eliminate the obvious hackers who use something like speed hacks. It might eliminate dick players also

After each game, the system will ask you to rate players that you played with (you dont have to) but you basically build up a rep of how many people trust you. Either people thought you're a hacker, negative, they weren't sure (also not good), or you get a positive score. Servers can pick what rep you need to have in order to play on them. PUBs should allow anyone, while the good servers will have stricter rules and rep scores you will have to meet. That should eliminate many of the other hackers.

All new accounts start off with a certain amount of points, like in CS ranking.

That would be terrible in practice. After each round are normal people really going to give the person who kicked their asses 10/10 rankings or 0/10 in revenge? People aren't objective.

 

[Wildace]

That would be terrible in practice. After each round are normal people really going to give the person who kicked their asses 10/10 rankings or 0/10 in revenge? People aren't objective.

when i played mw2 i was called a hacker almost every game, i would of been banned from playing with that sort of system almost as fast as it came out.

just one of my old mw2 vids
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEbonOaPWxQ

 

[DeathPrincess]

when i played mw2 i was called a hacker almost every game, i would of been banned from playing with that sort of system almost as fast as it came out.

just one of my old mw2 vids
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEbonOaPWxQ

Yes. I don't think there is any system, especially an automatic annoymous one that would be perfect.

Though one game ive never seen a "hacker" in is the organized battles in M&B warband. Probably because of the setup. Each of these battles are organized between multiple units in two teams, who all (usually) know each other. If they did something bad it would reflect on the 10+ people in the regiment, and likely get them banned. Though it might just be people are kind of mature in that game (most the time It doesn't seem to attract the same crowd as more "mainstream" titles)...

 

[Stiletto]

1 - Steam accounts should be required to play multiplayer games with a minumin of $100.00 of games. If you are caught hacking in any game your steam account is taken away with all the games.

Do you know how many times I've had my account locked because of "suspicious activity"? Stupid idea. No.

2. Hardware killing. Currently If you are cought hacking with Xbox 360, your console is disabled and you need to purchase a new console. So for PC , lets disable your Video Card perm and you will need to go out and get a new Video Card.

You're so bitter that you lost at a game that you want lots of people to lose hundreds or even thousands of dollars in electronics? How old are you? With that mindset, you might as well just go over to their house and break it yourself.

3. Pass a Law to make it illegal and you will need to register with some type of Gov/State Website before you can play online. If you are cough hacking the state sends you a bill like an ticket that must be paid to the state if its not paid you can lose driving privilages and so forth.

Wow. You're just the kind of person any totalitarian state is looking for.

4. My Idea - The Middle Eastern way - Cut your hand if you are caught hacking.

Only if the same punishment can be dealt to you if you ever vote in any kind of election.

I really hope this is all some really poor satire or trolling. Otherwise, I hope hackers continue to infest every game you play. Your response deserves only additional agitation.