• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

Let's Talk about Hackers

rudy said:
I think it depends on the game you play, it makes a huge difference. Some games just invite hacking because there are more motivations than usual to hack. BF3 is a great example and the hacking was worse than I have ever seen it in any game in BF3.

They have progression which is directly the result of performance, Kill X people unlock this, so the fastest way to progress which would give you upgrades that would make you even better was to well use an aimbot and just kill like crazy. On top of that it was a client side game in too many way, giving hackers alot of tools that would not work. All of this is on top of the typical problem with realistic shooters where the only skill that determines winners and losers is aim. So in BF3 you either aim well and win or you dont and you lose, its no surprise some people who cant aim well just decide to cheat. Next up the speed of killing, the first shot is critical in any realistic shooter because in most cases the first shot wins the fight, so having a wall hack or aim bot that gets you that first shot is just all that much more critical.

If you play BF3 you wont beat a decent hacker, unless you are one of the best players in the world.

Now contrast that to a game with a low hacking incedent like tribes ascend, lots of projectile weapons which not even an aimbot can perfectly predict. Once you know if someone is hacking you change up your flight pattern and their bot falls apart. your progress has a performance component but that is only about 25% in a perfectly ideal situation which does not exist it could be 50%. So why risk losing your whole account when the vast majority of your unlocks just plain come with time. Team element allows for players to succeed without directly killing, so even if you have bad ping, or you aim terrible there are other jobs you can do to help the team.

If I learned one thing from this its that leveling up and progression, which I hate, can be done very poorly and encourage cheating, or done very well and discourage cheating. Hopefully more games in the future will try to discourage it. All the problems with realistic shooters, realistically cannot be solved its just the reality of that genre and if you play in it you just have to accept a level of cheating that is higher than normal because of it. IMO this means that companies that make realistic shooters need to focus on the few things they can change, like the progression system, and not making moronic moves like client side hit detection.


Having a cost associated with hacking such as losing your account is good but now days it is common for hackers to already be paying for hacks, for this reason cheat makers are more prevelant than ever they can actually become millionaires making cheats. People are dropping $20 a pop for cheats for games like BF3, given it sold millions of copies it seems very reasonable that 10s of thousands of people paid for cheats. If they get their account canned they will make a new one, buy the game again and come back and cheat to level right back up to turd kernel.,

The fact that people care enough to cheat often means they are motivated enough to pay for new copies of games. This is interesting because people like to blame F2P for cheating, which sure it can allow for people to test them and such, but it can also fight it, for instance in tribes players under level 10 can hardly play with higher level players, and if there are alot of cheaters there alot of them are getting banned before they can get up to the higher levels.
Click to expand...
I agree that the unlocks are a huge reason for hacks. Counter Strike was easily the most popular shooter for years and hacking was there, but it never was a big problem for me.

BF3 was out of this world for hackers. I read on some forum a conversation with one of the guys from artificialaiming who said they were getting upwards of a thousand subscribers a week when they released their BF3 hack and held to that number for many weeks....Thats just a single site and there are probably dozens.

COD is also one that always seems to be full of hackers, but now a days its any big title. Planetside is a bad one for hackers and DayZ is crawling with them, and the dayz ones are brutal because they dont try to hide it. Ill be walking through a field with some friends when abrams tanks start falling from the sky and crushing us.

All you gotta do is look at some of the hack sites. Impressive sites with piles of hacks and I read somewhere on here that some even offer insurance so if your caught they buy you a new game key. Thats crazy.
 
Yeah BF3 is freaking infested with hackers for sure.
There was this article - http://mp1st.com/2012/05/07/battlefield-3-hacker-reveals-startling-numbers/
on the subject..

So now a days to even have a fair shot , you need to purchase a hack..

Sad days of MP gaming.

Maybe once the new generation of consoles are realeased I might purchase them and do most of my MP gaming on them. They are also hacked but not in the high numbers of the PC..

PS- the insurance is the kicker..lol I never seen that until you pointed it out.

It would be nice to see what MP games posters are playing..I bet alot of these morons posting dont even play MP and are on here because
they have nothing better to do.

Currently I play BF3/WarZ daily and shit is out of hand...
 
Last edited:
There is really only one way to prohibit hacking on a mass scale, and that is persistence.

We must look at the larger picture when assessing what drives the community of programmers who code such hacks, and the answer is pretty simple, monetary gain.

What makes hacks so difficult to prevent is that they are ever changing. You plug one hole in the code of a game, only to find that the programmer of such hacks change their code to circumvent the measures put in place.

My idea would require a bit of financial backing and cooperation with game companies, and although a bit unorthodox, it is feasible.

First, make rogue accounts with subscriptions to the major infringing sites. Reverse engineer their code and put preventive measures in place that would easily identify and ban the offenders. These rogue accounts would continue to get the software updates via their subscriptions, and continue to change the preventive measures as the code changes.

Second, make the hacks available for free on a third party site. This would remove any financial incentive for the programmers in question. With the continuously updated measures in place, and people downloading the hacks for free, it would make it rather easy to identify the culprits utilizing unfair means, and remove them accordingly.

Like I stated in the beginning, persistence is key. As long as there are measures in place to prevent this type of activity, people will continue to attempt to circumvent them.
 
NastyNative said:
You dont lose you vehicle, but you pay a fine!
The more expensive it becomes , the less likely you will do it again.

Also for MOD's... you guys have heard of unranked servers right????

Also IP bands dont work.. VPN's or Proxys can take care of that!
Click to expand...

Well, I'll still speed. Just TRY not to get caught. ;)
 
In BF3, the bigger pain in the ass for me is hingpingers (400+ ping). They cause so many insta-deaths on my part and lag up the entire fucking server. Servers rarely have measures to kick highpingers, but they will kick me for telling them to fuck off because I used a naughty word.
 
Plague_Injected said:
In BF3, the bigger pain in the ass for me is hingpingers. They cause so many insta-deaths on my part and lag up the entire fucking server. Servers rarely have measures to kick highpingers, but they will kick me for telling them to fuck off because I used a naughty word.
Click to expand...

That's lazy/poor game netcode. In no way shape or form should someone else's internet connection affect the gameplay of the entire server. It didn't in the old Quake days, it shouldn't now.
 
Dark Shade said:
That's lazy/poor game netcode. In no way shape or form should someone else's internet connection affect the gameplay of the entire server. It didn't in the old Quake days, it shouldn't now.
Click to expand...

I just got out of a server where almost every player had a ping over 300...mine was around 40-45. I might as well have been playing on another country's server, it was so laggy.

But yes, BF3's netcode is pretty terrible. I have the feeling that it was "optimised" for the console player limits of 12v12. Anything above that and the game goes to shit, at least on my connection.
 
How about stop playing shitty games like BF3 that are made for care bears. Playing that shitty game leaves me more angrier than anything else so I pretty much stopped playing it.

EA is the McDonalds of video games and BF3 is a Big Mac.
 
TheMadHatterXxX said:
How about stop playing shitty games like BF3 that are made for care bears. Playing that shitty game leaves me more angrier than anything else so I pretty much stopped playing it.

EA is the McDonalds of video games and BF3 is a Big Mac.
Click to expand...

Sense. Magical sense was made this day.
 
Also been told its mainly Asian players that are most likely to cheat, and when you look at their past swim teams it kinda makes sense, seriously weird complex over losing.

lol you can see the overzealous father almost pushing the son to cheat with "why you waste time playing and LOSING like a LOSER BOY maybe you win it be ok but you not, you waste study time!"
 
NastyNative said:
So your completely happy playing with hackers then???

I would enjoy playing a game where there are serious consequences for hacking..
Click to expand...

Buddy its just a game. You make it seem like it should be a crime to hack in a video game. That is ridiculous. Hackers will ALWAYS exist. Either play on private servers, play single player games or just give up gaming.
 
Hacking is here to stay my friends. any one that thinks otherwise is walking down the same path as the mpaa and the riaa trying to shut down piracy. and piracy is illegal unlike hacking (in games). so good luck to you anti hacking crusaders.....i mean trolls
 
TheMadHatterXxX said:
How about stop playing shitty games like BF3 that are made for care bears. Playing that shitty game leaves me more angrier than anything else so I pretty much stopped playing it.

EA is the McDonalds of video games and BF3 is a Big Mac.
Click to expand...


what fps should we play? you gaming god!
 
tuaarita said:
Gee I don't know... Not-BF3? You might not be aware of, but there are other games. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

there is really no game like BF3, well there other BFs but less players. Thats why I asked.

I know there are other FPS, I am not a moron but they are very different. What other current FPS have modern weapons, are team based and also offer vehicles in a pretty large map?

I know CS is out there, TF but they are not the same as BF. :rolleyes:
 
tuaarita said:
Gee I don't know... Not-BF3? You might not be aware of, but there are other games. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Have you considered trying WarZ...?







...trollface.jpg

There really isn't much choice, maybe give Planetside 2 a try since it's free? but cheating and BF3 are synonymous so deal with it and have things around you easily accessible that you can in destroy in frustration while you accuse the guy with the ridiculous kill count of cheating even if no one else on the server seems to care that he just went 100-20 while everyone else went like 43-20. :)
 
Last edited:
DeathPrincess said:
Wouldn't they just make 1 account per multiplayer game?

If they are untracable...how do you know they're "hacking"? :p
Click to expand...

I'll tell you how. Kids these days: "They are better than me!! NO!!! HACKS! HACKS!! Aimbot! Waller!" Everybody report this hacking noob!
 
Considering the OP described WarZ as the best game of 2012 and one of his best purchases ever...
 
keefusm said:
There is really only one way to prohibit hacking on a mass scale, and that is persistence.

We must look at the larger picture when assessing what drives the community of programmers who code such hacks, and the answer is pretty simple, monetary gain.

What makes hacks so difficult to prevent is that they are ever changing. You plug one hole in the code of a game, only to find that the programmer of such hacks change their code to circumvent the measures put in place.

My idea would require a bit of financial backing and cooperation with game companies, and although a bit unorthodox, it is feasible.

First, make rogue accounts with subscriptions to the major infringing sites. Reverse engineer their code and put preventive measures in place that would easily identify and ban the offenders. These rogue accounts would continue to get the software updates via their subscriptions, and continue to change the preventive measures as the code changes.

Second, make the hacks available for free on a third party site. This would remove any financial incentive for the programmers in question. With the continuously updated measures in place, and people downloading the hacks for free, it would make it rather easy to identify the culprits utilizing unfair means, and remove them accordingly.

Like I stated in the beginning, persistence is key. As long as there are measures in place to prevent this type of activity, people will continue to attempt to circumvent them.
Click to expand...

Your idea wont work, how do I know, because lots of anti cheat and game companies are already doing that. There have always been people who go under cover and try to help stop cheating. It never works because eventually they find ways around anything. They even match cheats where the cheat is custom compiled for every single new person to change the signature of the file so no 2 files have the same signature.

Second the cheat revolution IMO started in counter strike with 2 big players, HLH and OCG, and back then in the early days these were available for free and to this very day lots of cheats are available for free still. People will still make cheats because some people enjoy ruining other peoples fun even if it is for free.

The only way cheating is ever curbed is to make it so there is some system that stops cheaters from ever getting back into the community once they are caught. I have played alot of games and been a high positioned admin in leagues, its the same as saying how do you stop someone from ripping you off on ebay, you dont stop them you build a reputation system where people can decide if they want to deal with someone. The system would work in reverse but that is what we need. Until people are willing to give up their anonymity the online gaming landscape will not change.
 
the more people react like this, the more some people will cheat. Some cheaters enjoy people getting mad about it and while there will be a reaction, people will continue to provoque you guys.
 
keefusm said:
My idea would require a bit of financial backing and cooperation with game companies, and although a bit unorthodox, it is feasible.

First, make rogue accounts with subscriptions to the major infringing sites. Reverse engineer their code and put preventive measures in place that would easily identify and ban the offenders. These rogue accounts would continue to get the software updates via their subscriptions, and continue to change the preventive measures as the code changes.
Click to expand...

From what I understand most of these hacks, like in the hackertrash article, are a login and remote inject program that use a login/pass aswell as a hardware ID.
The reality is its big business and these people dont mess around. I think it was aimjunkies that did it first, but most have a TOS that you have to agree to:

http://www.aimjunkies.com/termsofservice.html

AimJunkies Terms Of Service
Section 1.

Payment Obligation and Credit Card Authorization (Paypal)

All listed fees are in U.S. dollars.

As a subscriber to this website, you agree that AimJunkies is permitted to charge your credit card (Paypal) to pay for the initial Service subscription, and any automatic renewals tied to your account. The subscription fee will be billed at the beginning of your subscription to your selected Paypal account and on each monthly renewal thereafter, dependent on the original subscription chosen. Once charged to your credit card (Paypal), the payments for the digital goods are nonrefundable and final. Any charge back’s or disputes from the purchaser’s credit card (Paypal) will result in a ban to the purchaser’s forum account. You may not assign or transfer your subscription to any other person or entity. You must be at least 18 years old (or have the permission of a credit card/ Paypal account holder who is) to purchase forum here.

AimJunkies reserves the right at any time to change fees attached to forum access which can include separate fees and/or separate charges for digital content available at time of purchase. Additionally AimJunkies may provide the purchaser notifications of changes of current billing via email.

Section 2.

If you are from the following list or a known associate or agent, you may not access AimJunkies.com any further without express permission from the owners of AimJunkies.com; any anti-cheating organizations such as Bad Apple ESIMS, CAC, CheatingDeath, CSBlacklist, CS-Guard, CSHP, Epic /United Admins, Nexon, nProtect GameGuard (GG),Paladin, PunkBuster,PBBans, Sierra, UTPure, Valve Anti-Cheat (VAC),Activision,Electronic Arts,Hi-Rez Studios,K2 Networks,Ijji or an agent of any other gaming network.

Any redistribution or reproduction of part or all of the contents in any form is prohibited other than the following:

you may download to a local hard disk extracts for your personal and non-commercial use only

Unauthorized use of this website or its content may give rise to a claim for damages and/or be a criminal offense. AND WE DO PROSECUTE!

You may not, except with our express written permission distribute, DISPLAY or commercially exploit the content. Nor may you transmit it or store it in any other website or other form of electronic retrieval system.

AimJunkies.com complies to the fullest extent with 17 U.S.C. § 512 and the Digital Millennium Copyright Act ("DMCA"). It is within our policy and rights to respond accordingly to any infringement notices, as well as take any and all appropriate actions under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act ("DMCA") and any other applicable property laws.

Section 3.

If for any reason a detection occurs for your Digital Product after purchase, no refunds shall be given at any time unless under discretion from an Owner of AimJunkies.com. AimJunkies is not responsible for any in-game detections or ban’s accumulated while using or not using our Product. The responsibility falls completely upon the user after purchase, and is the users own responsibility to check detection status before using our Product.

What this document basically says is: if you cheat and get caught, it's your responsibility. You know the risks going in, so don't cry to us if you get banned. If you are working for a gaming site, stay out or we will vigorously prosecute We have the technology to catch you; better technology than your anticheat!
Click to expand...

I like your idea, but its illegal, and regardless of the outcome, you cant justify stopping immoral cheating with immoral espionage. Stupid, but 2 wrongs dont make a right.
If punkbuster did what you suggest and anyone found out, it would be just like the end of "The Dark Knight" :)

Hackers cant be stopped, its just not possible. The best you can hope for is heavy handed admins on every server all the time....but even then, unless you have definitive proof someone is hacking, banning someone because you suspect it doesnt solve anything.
The progression aspects of games these days has done nothing but supercharge hackers.
 
r3awak3n said:
the more people react like this, the more some people will cheat. Some cheaters enjoy people getting mad about it and while there will be a reaction, people will continue to provoque you guys.
Click to expand...
This is definitely part of it. The OP got so riled up that he wants all kinds of silly measures in place that wouldn't work anyways. I can only imagine what he yells at the hackers that they see/hear and laugh at. Unfortunately, hackers are just part of the community and you can't just wipe them out with one fell swoop. It seems like some people like to play on private servers which seems to work pretty well for them. Let the hackers have their fun on the public servers and just make your own for players you know and trust.
 
NastyNative said:
most hacks are untracable...
Now if steam would ban the entire account and you need to purchase your entire
library.. we can cut down on the amount of hackers by A SHIT LOAD!!!
Click to expand...

Wrong. Ill go ahead and chime in because i feel like it.

Most hacks are traceable. VAC may be a slow old dinosaur but guess what. Its very effective and has ZERO false positives. The way that VAC works is it constantly scans your hard drive and RAM for strings patterns of cheats.

Have i cheated before? Yes. One time. i felt it was important to use what i had to deal with to further learn about it more and to teach my admins what to look for. My account was in fact banned 3 weeks later. VAC also doesnt just ban per game. It bans per engine. If you cheat in Counter Strike Source then you are banned on all Orange Box engine games.

Ive been a leader/owner or whatever you want to call it of numerous clans and many gaming community startups. When you run a organization that prides itself in dealing with cheaters and has a good atmosphere then you get well known. Thats where people want to hang out and game. The big thing now is any kid thinks he can start his own thing and is very experienced in the admin world and you get a kid on a powertrip that thinks anyone better then they are are cheaters. I welcome high skilled players into servers i run because i feel its important for people to know whos legit and who isnt. Often ive had to vouch for said players because many people cant tell who is and isnt properly.

Like others said. Your OP is stupidity at its finest. Play on good servers with good people that are ran by good communities and you wont have these problems.
 
Its so fucking easy to eliminate the hackers in a controlled environment. The only reason this problem is so big in these kind of games is because they use open servers that arent centrally controlled and governed. They can just go from one server to the next.

Funny how nobody wants to talk about that. Lot of cheaters around here?
 
Droc said:
I agree that the unlocks are a huge reason for hacks. Counter Strike was easily the most popular shooter for years and hacking was there, but it never was a big problem for me.

All you gotta do is look at some of the hack sites. Impressive sites with piles of hacks and I read somewhere on here that some even offer insurance so if your caught they buy you a new game key. Thats crazy.
Click to expand...

You've got to be kidding, I don't know about currently but when CS first went retail hacking exploded in that game and continued on strong throughout CS:S.

German Muscle said:
Wrong. Ill go ahead and chime in because i feel like it.

Most hacks are traceable. VAC may be a slow old dinosaur but guess what. Its very effective and has ZERO false positives. The way that VAC works is it constantly scans your hard drive and RAM for strings patterns of cheats.

Have i cheated before? Yes. One time. i felt it was important to use what i had to deal with to further learn about it more and to teach my admins what to look for. My account was in fact banned 3 weeks later. VAC also doesnt just ban per game. It bans per engine. If you cheat in Counter Strike Source then you are banned on all Orange Box engine games.
Click to expand...

VAC is good at catching certain things. I also cheated the once, in order to see what was really out there. I actually paid something like $20 to get the "legit" cheats and access to the forums. Pubbed around a bit, was banned in about 3 weeks. (In hindsight, should have tested this not on my primary Steam account, with a 5 dig :( ). Apparently if I hadn't used 1 or 2 features, I forget which, VAC couldn't detect it at that time.

While I don't condone any of the draconian measures so far put out in this thread, I do think the Real ID type of suggestion would be a great requirement for online competitive league play. You're not forced to do it to play the game, but if you want to play at a higher level you have to make the choice to udnergo a higher level of scrutiny.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

This whole thread is troll bait.

Also OP, explain to me how you "hack" a single player game. Of course it will only effect MP games. Those are the only ones where other people can cheat against you. Not, "were we are effected the most." SIC

Why didn't you post this in the Steam forums? Seems like there are a lot more people of your age and state of mind there.:confused:
 
All of the proposed methods are just upping the ante for repercussions if caught, but that's not really the issue, the issue is reliably catching people.

If we could reliably catch people and ban them it wouldn't matter how effective punishment is, because we could just automate the process.

Sure...try and cut the hand of a hacker off, but how are you going to verify they were hacking in the first place? How are you going to verify it was actually that person playing online at the time the hacking took place. You can't prove any of that stuff, and so you cannot punish the individual.

You can revoke privileges within the game space sure, ban CD keys, ban player IDs from servers, but we already do those things and they don't help.

Best defence against hackers has ALWAYS been good admins, someone to watch the game who is impartial (not playing themselves) and monitoring all players for suspect behaviour, I'm not talking about some 14 year old kid who rages at his 3rd death, I'm talking about an adult, whos sole job it is to admin the server, few and far between these days but if you want a safe haven to play in with friends and other people then thats what you need to structure.
 
Droc said:
I like your idea, but its illegal, and regardless of the outcome, you cant justify stopping immoral cheating with immoral espionage. Stupid, but 2 wrongs dont make a right.
If punkbuster did what you suggest and anyone found out, it would be just like the end of "The Dark Knight" :)
Click to expand...

I've a hard time believing something like that could be illegal just because they say so in the EULA / TOS. EULAs / TOSs can't circumvent the law and make things illegal that aren't otherwise illegal, any more than they can give the owners additional rights or privelages. Sounds more like they put that there to scare off anyone thinking of doing so.

I'm also not sure how they could possibly even find out that a subscriber is an employee of any of those unless you came out and said so, other than perhaps logging in while at the company HQ or something...
 
Frosty, you will never reliably catch people, so you have to discourage people from doing it by upping the ante. That's what everyone should have learned from over 10 years of anticheat systems sometimes, rarely they catch a good hacker, most of them time they only catch the total noobs running around with outdating cheats. They will never reliably work. So you typically get just 1 chance to nail a cheater and you have to make sure that the one time you hit him, you can make sure he is not coming back. That is why you need a system that links a real life identity to an online account. And that would quickly become a set standard for any competitive play.

Good admins are nearly impossible to find, and any fair impartial admin will always lean toward letting more cheaters go rather than making false convictions. I have been on both sides of the argument, been banned probably over 100 times by admins for cheating, all of them were obviously false accusations, many of them I had to fight to get unbanned, some I just didn't care to go back. The worst admins I have dealt with have all been full grown adults, supposedly considered fair by the followers of their server. Funny thing is most of them missed a real hacker for years in their community. The vast majority of 14 year old kids dont run server, yeah almost all the raging admins out there are full grown adults with jobs, many times families, supposedly upstanding citizens.

I have also been an admin, and I have run leagues as far up as being the top admin of leagues. Trust me when I say this with some of the best admins in the world it is incredibly difficult to feel that a person is hacking beyond a reasonable doubt. Anticheats which positively identify programs running on computers is the best shot you have at making a beyond a reasonable doubt decision.

Revoking privileges has to expand out of a single game or instance and into the entire online gaming community. If you get caught hacking in BF3 you cant play TF2 kind of thing. Just like vac we will leave cheaters to have their fun in unsecured servers.

Admins also only work even half way well if they are part of huge collaborations where they all share cheating lists, but any good player will tell you they end up on those cheating lists when they didnt cheat at all.
 
castun said:
I've a hard time believing something like that could be illegal just because they say so in the EULA / TOS. EULAs / TOSs can't circumvent the law and make things illegal that aren't otherwise illegal, any more than they can give the owners additional rights or privelages. Sounds more like they put that there to scare off anyone thinking of doing so.

I'm also not sure how they could possibly even find out that a subscriber is an employee of any of those unless you came out and said so, other than perhaps logging in while at the company HQ or something...
Click to expand...

Legally if they have digital copywrite on the software its no different then violating the TOS on any digital property.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top