Is the mining thing slowing down?

biggles said:
Check out the listing, it says lightly used. Ha! Yeah right...
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You never know. In a good server rack setup with plenty of airflow and undervolting those cards are probably in better shape than the average gamer's card after a few months.
 
Why does everything have to be about the numbers? I remember when you bought a video card and got enjoyment out of it then when you upgraded you sold it or gave it to a family member. There was no ROI when you bought it.
In the Folding@Home aspect there are no ROI. We do it because we enjoy it, enjoy helping others.
I just upgraded my video card and could easily sell it but instead I am donating it to a Twitch streamer. Thats right, my Titan Xp is being given away to a stranger. To me thats worth more then any ROI.
The 980Ti that the Titan replaced was donated to a Twitch streamer as well
 
My thought on all this is that I'll never buy a used GPU for a long time, years! These cards are run at 100% 24/7 as long as they live or are profitable so when they hit the used market, they are toast.

I wonder how much of that price boost to buy new cards is reflected by Nvidia and AMD having to replace cards under warranty so now they want to recover costs.

This isn't doing any favors for gamers, Nvidia and AMD is after profits, screw the gamers that have been there all along..
 
M3Roc said:
My thought on all this is that I'll never buy a used GPU for a long time, years! These cards are run at 100% 24/7 as long as they live or are profitable so when they hit the used market, they are toast.

I wonder how much of that price boost to buy new cards is reflected by Nvidia and AMD having to replace cards under warranty so now they want to recover costs.

This isn't doing any favors for gamers, Nvidia and AMD is after profits, screw the gamers that have been there all along..
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Mining isn't killing cards at alarming rates.. You are paranoid.
 
M3Roc said:
I would say that too if I had a bunch of money invested in cards and plan to sell them later too.. Cards that have been mining 24/7 are junk after a few months, those cards are not designed to run 100% 24/7
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I don't run my cards at 100%, I run them at 65-75%, but I can tell you I have had 0 problems with dozens of cards I've mined with for over 6 months. Sounds like nonsense to me.
 
Sparky said:
Why does everything have to be about the numbers? I remember when you bought a video card and got enjoyment out of it then when you upgraded you sold it or gave it to a family member. There was no ROI when you bought it.
In the Folding@Home aspect there are no ROI. We do it because we enjoy it, enjoy helping others.
I just upgraded my video card and could easily sell it but instead I am donating it to a Twitch streamer. That's right, my Titan Xp is being given away to a stranger. To me thats worth more then any ROI.
The 980Ti that the Titan replaced was donated to a Twitch streamer as well
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1) you don't buy 60 GPU's for mining because of charity intent, so no should expect the miners to give their cards away either. They bought the cards to make money, they used the cards to make money, they'll make money on the sale if they can as well. It's being viewed like a business.
2) you probably have extra income/savings that make that $800 less lucrative than the feel good you get from giving the card away. Most folks aren't in that same position, and you must realize it's the slim minority that would give $800 worth of a luxury item away to a stranger. That isn't the same thing as charity. It's not bread for the hungry, or clothes for the homeless. It's a high end GPU that nobody "needs".
 
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I'd buy a card from a miner without much concern. I would, however, want to either personally inspect the board or see high res pictures to look for any unusual heat markings. I probably wouldn't buy it online unless from here with heat, so I'd request to see it running as well.

I'm looking forward to Bitcoin crashing so I can actually afford a decent card for my Ryzen 1700 system. Still using the gtx460 in my signature but not overclocked anymore, lol...
 
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Hmmm, 24/7 usage does not hurt the card unless there's been an adverse amount of voltage supplied, and/or heat was above the manufacturer recommendation. Saying a card being mined with is junk is ridiculous. On a side note, I'm thinking of getting rid of my spare EVGA 1070 Black Edition (unopened) due to the downturn.
 
Archaea said:
1) you don't buy 60 GPU's for mining because of charity intent, so no should would expect the miners to give their cards away either. They bought the cards to make money, they used the cards to make money, they'll make money on the sale if they can as well. It's being viewed like a business.
2) you probably have extra income/savings that make that $800 less lucrative than the feel good you get from giving the card away. Most folks aren't in that same position, and you must realize it's the slim majority that would give $800 worth of a luxury item away to a stranger. That isn't the same thing as charity. It's not bread for the hungry, or clothes for the homeless. It's a high end GPU that nobody "needs".
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On the flip side, miners shouldn't be surprised or upset if non-miner gamers aren't in a hurry to help cash out the people that have been profiting at their expense. It's the way it is, if not business, like you say.

Disclosure: I have mined on and off, and don't expect to sell off cards for anything less than a significant bargain.
 
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noobferguson said:
On the flip side, miners shouldn't be surprised or upset if non-miner gamers aren't in a hurry to help cash out the people that have been profiting at their expense. It's the way it is, if not business, like you say.

Disclosure: I have mined on and off, and don't expect to sell off cards for anything less than a significant bargain.
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miners will have no problem selling cards. It comes down to market demands, and the fact that mining isn't damaging cards in any notable way.
 
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Woot910 said:
Hmmm, 24/7 usage does not hurt the card unless there's been an adverse amount of voltage supplied, and/or heat was above the manufacturer recommendation. Saying a card being mined with is junk is ridiculous. On a side note, I'm thinking of getting rid of my spare EVGA 1070 Black Edition (unopened) due to the downturn.
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Not an expert in this area but this sounds right. It seems like video cards should be fine under normal use, even if this means normal use day in and day out. I do not think video cards wear out like a light bulb. And I will keep an eye out for your EVGA 1070 in the fs/ft forum.
 
biggles said:
I do not think video cards wear out like a light bulb
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everything electronic will eventually wear out and die but added voltage or heat will accelerate it as will running it at 100% for extended use.
 
pendragon1 said:
everything electronic will eventually wear out and die but added voltage or heat will accelerate it as will running it at 100% for extended use.
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I still think it is all speculative. What is worse, running a card for 24 hours a day at 60% power, at 60c, or running a card 6 hours a day (long gaming session) at 100% power or more, hitting 80c or more?
 
even at 60% it will still eventually die, they all will eventually die for various different reasons. 6 hours at 100% is normal use, extended use is 100% for days/weeks/months.
 
Slowing down? Some seems to be, at least according to the FS/T forum. A surprising number of new posts selling 580s, 1070s and 1080s at the low, low price of double MSRP. Or maybe they just saw the retail prices starting to come back down on those cards.
 
M3Roc said:
I would say that too if I had a bunch of money invested in cards and plan to sell them later too.. Cards that have been mining 24/7 are junk after a few months, those cards are not designed to run 100% 24/7
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All of the R9 290/x that I bought following the last crash have failed partially or completely. They were all in separate systems, 2 of them were watercooled.

I also got scammed on a couple orders (physically damaged cards) and ended up with a bunch of money sitting in PayPal limbo.

Not playing that game again. I never buy used or 'refurbished' consumer hardware anymore.
 
mnewxcv said:
Proof? I'll be waiting.
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Im guessing the fans "may" be designed based off of 6000 hours of spinning (8 hoursa day 365 etc for the life of the warranty). The electronics are not not going to wear out other than the electrolytic caps. Those do have a shelf life of say 2000 hours at rated voltage, but just run them 1/3 under their rated voltage and you might get 15 years run life.
 
kirbyrj said:
You never know. In a good server rack setup with plenty of airflow and undervolting those cards are probably in better shape than the average gamer's card after a few months.
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Even though I'm one of those disgruntled gamers toward the miners.. I could see this..

An average gamer's has their card shoved in a tiny ass case, full of dog/cat hair.. running full tilt for hours on end.. .. probably on a shit, unstable power supply lol
 
jlbenedict said:
Even though I'm one of those disgruntled gamers toward the miners.. I could see this..

An average gamer's has their card shoved in a tiny ass case, full of dog/cat hair.. running full tilt for hours on end.. .. probably on a shit, unstable power supply lol
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my cards are all under 70c in a row of 6-7 cards sandwiched between 3 120mm fans on either side. Heat being a major contributing factor to electronics failure, I at least know I am combating that somewhat.
 

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mnewxcv said:
my cards are all under 70c in a row of 6-7 cards sandwiched between 3 120mm fans on either side. Heat being a major contributing factor to electronics failure, I at least know I am combating that somewhat.
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What case is that?
 
Archaea said:
You have lots of other 100% ROI options in your investments in less than a year do you?

How’s your 401k doing the last few years? Did it double in a year?

What about the rental properties you own? Did you completely pay it off in 9 months and then subsequently have both the asset value and a source of income?
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I've made 28% CAGR in the 3 property deals I've done since 2013. Most recent one brought the average down, I paid more for it than I would have otherwise because it was directly adjacent to my 2nd property, much easier management in long term. The first deal was 40% CAGR and second is 37% so far. When I'm 60 and the renters have paid the mortgages off for me that's all the retirement income I need and then some. 60% of my monthly costs are 30 year fixed, so only way that plan doesn't work out is if Portland OR area goes the way of Detroit.

Saw a couple of your other posts and super respect what you've done/are doing, but it's not for me. I'm very comfortable with the notion that real estate in my location will grow in the long term and retain value. I can imagine cryptocurrencies having long term value, but I see them having a number of hurdles they have to overcome before bridging the market adoption gap. It's awesome that you paid off in full in 9 months, you've won even if every coin goes to zero tomorrow, and even at fire sale prices the rigs you made will have some liquidation value. I don't think that will happen, but I like to consider all possibilities. Hindsight being 2020, it would have been smart if I had dumped 20-40K into a mining setup last summer. But making the same bet for 15 years from now I'm not so sure. So I think the ROI on mining needs to be much higher because of the greater uncertainty.

I thought cloud computing was a pipe dream back in 2008, so I wouldn't take my non-believer status too hard :D
 
M3Roc said:
I would say that too if I had a bunch of money invested in cards and plan to sell them later too.. Cards that have been mining 24/7 are junk after a few months, those cards are not designed to run 100% 24/7
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You can prove everyone wrong and start some sort of tracking system for these failed cards. With numbers on your side then maybe people will start to believe you. Well it’s best to have a 3rd party/non biased group do it so no one can claim there is an hiddden agenda.

Besides it’s not like there are people on this forum mining with cards for 5+ years...
 
This isn't doing any favors for gamers, Nvidia and AMD is after profits, screw the gamers that have been there all along..[/QUOTE]

Well if that isn’t one of the stupidest fucking comments. Of course they are in it for the profits. Or they wouldn’t make them. Thanks captain obvious.
 
M3Roc said:
I would say that too if I had a bunch of money invested in cards and plan to sell them later too.. Cards that have been mining 24/7 are junk after a few months, those cards are not designed to run 100% 24/7
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I haven’t seen anything official stating cards aren’t designed to run 24/7 someone else made this claim a few weeks ago, I asked for a spec sheet that tells us what is the official maximum duty cycle and the line went silent. Perhaps you have this info? Please link me to an official and or nvidia document stating what is a acceptable duty cycle for these cards.

The issue I have with a mining card isn’t the 24/7 load, it’s the 24/7 load run at memory clock speeds that wouldn’t even be stable when playing a game. That WILL kill a card. I don’t give a shit if you're running at 60% power with temps never going above 60c. If you’re over clocking you memory to levels that would cause artifacts and lockup’s in games, you’re killing the card.
 
So let's start this out in Autumn.


Autumn -> Mining picks up. Folks don't need to deal with the heat -> Profitability is outstanding because of nominal hash across the alt-coin network. GPUs begin to start moving off shelves.

Winter -> Mining is booming -> EVERYONE is spinning up open-air rigs -> Open-Air Rigs are excellent space heaters -> Profitability is still there -> Difficulty across the alt-coin market is scaling and providing momentum for The Drop. Not easily recognized, but generally ignored.

Spring -> Mining is still going, but losing steam -> Profitability is down -> Difficulty across the alt-coin market now has magnitude behind that scale. The Drop is here, and everyone knows it.

Summer -> Mining is returning to nominal levels -> Profitability is returning to nominal rates -> Difficulty across the alt-coin market has bottomed out. The Drop has weeded out enough miners to dampen the impact on the alt-coin hashrates across the board.

end of Summer, heading into Autumn -> GPUs are back, scalpers out -> Plenty of used options on ebay et all -> Proclamations of 'mining is dead' ! -> Profitability is there only for those who truly had viable setups ....

<< If i could stick a JAWS theme / meme in at this point of the cycle, i would >>

.. and around we cycle again.


:p
 
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What were the normal prices for GTX 1080ti before the mining rage hit? Were they MSRP or lower? Or did they start off kinda high because of demand of a new card?
 
sanders4617 said:
What were the normal prices for GTX 1080ti before the mining rage hit? Were they MSRP or lower? Or did they start off kinda high because of demand of a new card?
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Last summer you could buy them everywhere for $700, and if you caught sales or used online store discount codes (ebay, befrugal, eBate) - $650 range was easy to come by.
 
griff30 said:
https://www.ccn.com/bitcoin-drops-from-7900-to-6600-as-cryptocurrency-market-takes-a-beating/

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From $7900 to $6,600 in 24 hours.
That's just Bitcoin.
It's slowing down to a burst.
I feel sorry for the small time miners or those who went into it late.

Then again, GPU prices back to normal is on the horizon.
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I don't feel bad for any of the miners. This has been completely based on speculation for a non-tangible asset. I hope it collapses completely.
 
you do realize that there is nearly zero effort and no physical item to keep track of here right? so as long as it turns 1 cent of profit over electricity it will continue on.
my rigs have about halved profitability, so lets see, each card generates 20$ profit per month instead of 40$. hmm let me think, yeah, 20$ profit is still better than 0$ profit.
 
braamer said:
I don't feel bad for any of the miners. This has been completely based on speculation for a non-tangible asset. I hope it collapses completely.
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That's a bit harsh, but that would be great for PC gamers. I remember when I got my HD 7950 for $85 during the bitcoin crash (1.0). I can't wait until all the Pascal and Vega cards flood the market when the miner's start dumping them.
 
some are dumping, some quite reasonable deals are available today. rumor is theres a bid to buy a whales amount of BTC over the next 3 days though. rather it is market manipulation or what no one can say. but if it gets a foot hold the turn around and climb could be sooner rather than later.
 
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