Is the mining thing slowing down?

Discussion in 'Video Cards' started by spaceman, Mar 12, 2018.

  1. spaceman

    spaceman [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Friend of mine has been keeping an eye on ebay gpus and said there are a bunch of newish mining builds and cards on ebay now. Have the large miners squeezed out the small timers or is it just getting too hard to turn a profit?
     
  2. Verado

    Verado [H]Lite

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    Looked out my window. Can confirm hell has not frozen over.
     
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  3. noko

    noko 2[H]4U

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    Still making money here, more than costs. I just love GPU's :kiss: so even if all coins go bust I will still be hugging them :p
     
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  4. Chimpee

    Chimpee [H]ard|Gawd

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    I believe if you try to do this alone, it be very hard to make money, unless you have a huge mining operation. The money is in mining pool where small timers can still get into the action and make money.
     
  5. atp1916

    atp1916 [H]ard|DCoTM x1

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    Quite a few of your open-air miners will spin stuff down over the summer. I feel this is what folks are seeing.

    With new card iterations coming out, some miners will preemptively clear out for a tech refresh.

    Some could see this as 'slowing down'.
     
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  6. kirbyrj

    kirbyrj Why oh why didn't I take the BLUE pill?

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    I think the profitability has dropped to the point where the ROI is pushed out to around 250 days+ at inflated prices for cards. A lot of guys don't even get involved unless the ROI is within 180 days.
     
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  7. kirbyrj

    kirbyrj Why oh why didn't I take the BLUE pill?

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    It depends on your definition of "make money." You can turn pretty much any higher end video card loose on Nicehash and make $1 a day in BTC. You'll never get rich from it, but you will turn a profit.
     
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  8. Spaceninja

    Spaceninja [H]ard|Gawd

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    My old ass 750ti will do a $1 a day. The newer cards will do quite a bit better.
     
  9. kirbyrj

    kirbyrj Why oh why didn't I take the BLUE pill?

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    Not with a BTC price around $9000.

    According to the Nicehash calculator, your 750Ti does $0.27 a day BEFORE electricity costs.
     
  10. Comixbooks

    Comixbooks Ignore Me

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    Start saving and you will be lucky to find a card all this year and maybe next years for Nvidias Amprere expect 1K for anything on ebay. Unless the Nvidia chips yield is huge but that doesn't even mean anything pedicting online behavior is like your dog playing dead nobody cares really.
     
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  11. Araxie

    Araxie [H]ardness Supreme

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    nope, no way a 750ti will do 1$ a day..
     
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  12. Spaceninja

    Spaceninja [H]ard|Gawd

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    It has been a few months, it use to lol.
     
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  13. Icy006

    Icy006 [H]Lite

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    For the mining scene to really change, you need 1) a paradigm change, like a high-end mining-specific set of cards that make gaming-specific GPUs obsolete somehow, or 2) most coins changing from proof of work (mining) to proof of stake (holding / interest), or 3) whole system collapses or otherwise stops being profitable. :)
     
  14. Furious_Styles

    Furious_Styles Gawd

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    If anything it looks like the fraudsters are increasing on ebay. Lots of 1080 ti listings for slightly over $100.
     
  15. Engr62

    Engr62 Limp Gawd

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    Actually, with the current profitability, the ROI for even MSRP cards is going to be over 250 days. At $0.10 /kWh, a GTX 1060 6Gb has a profitability of $0.89/day (280 days ROI if you get it at $250), or a GTX 1070 has a profitability of $1.35/day (281 days ROI if you get it at $380).

    So, unless you are just mining and holding--hoping that your coin will at least double in value, I can't imagine that people will still be jumping into mining.
     
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  16. Archaea

    Archaea [H]ardForum Junkie

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    You have lots of other 100% ROI options in your investments in less than a year do you?

    How’s your 401k doing the last few years? Did it double in a year?

    What about the rental properties you own? Did you completely pay it off in 9 months and then subsequently have both the asset value and a source of income?
     
  17. Engr62

    Engr62 Limp Gawd

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    Nope. You are right. My 401K only went up 30% last year and 10% this year.

    But, at the end of January, the profit on a GTX 1070 was over $3/day and a GTX 1060 was ~$2/day. They are both less than half of that now. So, even if the ROI on a card at MSRP is at 280 days today, you'll probably never realize that. It will keep getting longer and longer.
     
  18. Furious_Styles

    Furious_Styles Gawd

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    Remember you should assume your average ROI for stocks is ~7% annually. Don't get swept up into thinking this is normal.
     
  19. Archaea

    Archaea [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Mining profits are up and down. I started last June. I saw anything from $2.15 a day to $12 a day on my 1080TI cards (Gross profit). Current profit isn't any lower than a two week period last fall. (about $2.25 a day right now) Unless you think Crypto is outright done and fading away ( I don't)
     
  20. Engr62

    Engr62 Limp Gawd

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    My 401K is 28 years old... so I definitely don't think the past two years in the stock market is normal. ;) I was there in 2003 (lost about 40% in a few weeks time) and 2008.
     
  21. Furious_Styles

    Furious_Styles Gawd

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    Well if you've been through the dot-com and 08/09 crashes I'd say you're well prepared. Just make sure you don't sell at the lows!
     
  22. Engr62

    Engr62 Limp Gawd

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    I don't think it's done by any means. I just don't think one should go into it with the hopes of paying off newly purchased hardware in a relatively short period of time at this point. I like building computers, so for me it's just a hobby, and mining has just added to the fun. I didn't go into it as an investment opportunity per se, but GPU mining piqued my interest. I've been using GPUs at work for many years to accelerate my finite element analyses, so I just wanted to delve into this on a small scale to learn something.

    If one mines and holds onto their cryptocurrency, and it makes a leap in value, it may turn out to be a good investment. Or it may not. I just wouldn't want to buy up a bunch of hardware today that I'm hoping will pay for itself in 180 days, 250 days, or whatever short-term goal I might have.
     
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  23. dragonstongue

    dragonstongue 2[H]4U

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    oh you mean like FPGA or ASIC already have done O.O....course by design FPGA/ASIC are not "as capable" as they are built for a specific purpose whereas a GPU (especially higher performance gaming grade or otherwise) are able to "do it all" not nearly as much raw performance, usually more electricity for the performance given, but also usually at that much more a cost per unit ($/hash performance) just easier for "farms" to buy a whole whack of GPU it seems to me, I know myself when I was mining, when ASIC first came out, for BTC was great (for about 6-9 months) but then because other miners "came online" the "gains" became effectively non existent unless one could throw a few thousand $ worth of equipment at it.

    as for "the other coins" still profitable, yes, but, not everyone is in a position (or a want) to capitalize on potential profits (not counting the fact that many countries do not seem to be treating the "profits" as they should seeing as power costs X, the hardware costs X, they just treat it as net profit or capital gains some shit like that) then of course there is the massive cost increase as of late over MSRP for pretty much all graphics cards (fuking greed) from vendors because "we sell them as fast as we can bring them in" basically they want a piece of the action, I would not at all be surprised if Nvidia (possibly AMD) sees a trickle of this revenue overcharge added to their coffers as well.

    I can understand say if they had to charge more because the VRAM is in short supply, so maybe $5-$15 more, but $100+ more, GREED nothing more.
     
  24. Airbrushkid

    Airbrushkid 2[H]4U

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    Where you getting your numbers? Nicehash. There full of Shit. There always way off. Mine are already paid off. It all comes down to how much hashing power you can get out of a card or should I say cards! Go look at what Nicehash say's that a GTX 1070 is making more then a GTX 1070ti.

     
  25. Engr62

    Engr62 Limp Gawd

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    Yes, those were Nicehash numbers. However, here is an attempt at my actual numbers...

    I don't know what my GPUs are earning individually (1x 1070, 5x 1060s)--just their aggregate earnings, but lets assume that the Nicehash numbers are somewhat accurate. If the 1070 gets $1.35/day per Nicehash while the 1060 gets $0.89/day per Nicehash (after electricity), the 1060 earns about 66% of the amount that the 1070 earns (0.89/1.35). It would be better if I had the Nicehash values before accounting for electricity.

    I'm running all of my cards at about 72% of their nominal clocks using Afterburner (not sure if it will actually scale the power by the same amount, but lets assume it does). So, my total cost for electricity (running these 24/7) is:

    Electricity = (150 W + 5*120 W) * 0.72 * 24 hours/day * $0.10/kWh * 0.001 kW/W * 365 days/year = $473.04/year.

    Using an average value of $10,000/BTC (the daily closing average from 3/1/18 to 3/12/18), my electricty costs ~0.0473 BTC/yr or ~0.00013 BTC/day.

    These cards have been earning an average of 0.0007004 BTC/day between 3/1/18 and 3/12/18. So, my net earnings are 0.0005704 BTC/day (0.0007004 - 0.00013).

    Letting 'x' be the daily earnings of the GTX 1070,

    (x + 5*0.66*x) = 0.0005704

    So, x = 0.000133 BTC/day. Again, using a value of $10,000/BTC... the GTX 1070 earns $1.33/day (0.000133 * 10000). Each 1060 earns ~$0.88/day (0.66*$1.33).

    Based on my actual usage, I'd say the Nicehash calculator is pretty spot on.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
  26. mnewxcv

    mnewxcv [H]ardness Supreme

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    wouldn't profitability go way up for the rest of us? I'm not seeing that.
     
  27. ZacharyS

    ZacharyS Gawd

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    If you're only getting 7% annually in the stock market then you're a huge pussy. Which is fine, but someone getting a nice safe 7% every year has no business in Crypto, the most volatile thing you could consider putting any type of money into...
     
  28. Kardonxt

    Kardonxt 2[H]4U

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    Things are slowing down. A vega64 will make you ~$2 a day now. Unless coin prices come back up you will see more and more miners unloading now that they don't see ROI in the near future.
     
  29. braamer

    braamer [H]ard|Gawd

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    I sure hope so. I want to upgrade my GTX 970 to a GTX 1080 Ti, and in turn upgrade the kids GTX 660 to a GTX 970.
     
  30. Archaea

    Archaea [H]ardForum Junkie

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    stupid post

    https://www.thesimpledollar.com/where-does-7-come-from-when-it-comes-to-long-term-stock-returns/

    Beyond that, the long-term data for the stock market points to that 7% number as well. For the period 1950 to 2009, if you adjust the S&P 500 for inflation and account for dividends, the average annual return comes out to exactly 7.0%. Check the data for yourself.
     
  31. Furious_Styles

    Furious_Styles Gawd

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    That's a poor way of looking at things. People's risk tolerance varies. Also your age can change your portfolio mix. If you're only 30 then sure you should be nearly all in stocks and 7% can seem like a weak return, but most people who are 30 have no idea that some serious volatility lays ahead of them. When we're near the top of a long bull market it's easy to think these returns are normal however It's much better to plan conservatively.
     
  32. KickAssCop

    KickAssCop [H]ardness Supreme

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    1080 Ti is only making about 2.5 a day. Who is paying 1000 for it must be crazy.
     
  33. buttons

    buttons [H]ard|Gawd

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    I listed one of my 1080 Ti for sale this morning for only $100 over msrp and it didnt sell in 12 seconds. Something is very wrong!!
     
  34. srphoenix

    srphoenix Limp Gawd

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    I think we've hit a point in which it's become somewhat speculative again unless you access to free/ extremely cheap power. Cards are still making more than what power costs are, but not at a rate in which you are going to ROI-ing at all quickly. All of that being said I think crypto will recover once the regulation news that has been a steady stream dies down. I strongly doubt it's going to be outright banned in any sort of way on a global scale.
     
  35. biggles

    biggles [H]ard|Gawd

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    Nobody knows. Will crypto mining increase, decrease, remain the same? Will crypto currency values increase, decrease, or stay the same? It is not possible to predict long term trends based on short term fluctuations. There is a lot of volatility in mining.

    The important part for PC gamers is gpu prices. I believe Nvidia when they predict high prices will persist throughout 2018. They might be wrong in that forecast, but they have more info on the subject than we do. And their business model depends on getting these forecasts "right".
     
  36. oldmanbal

    oldmanbal [H]ard|Gawd

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    I feel like nicehash can really hurt you when bitcoin prices drop, making it harder to earn on their platform. Would be better off running a custom app and joining a pool if you really wanted to maximize your revenue. You can always convert whatever you are mining back to bitcoin :)
     
  37. oldmanbal

    oldmanbal [H]ard|Gawd

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    In january I had a 970 in my living room media box earning 2.75/day on nicehash, now it's still making about about a dollar per day after electric. I doubt many people are relying on nicehash for their 1080ti mining experience if they are buying them simply to mine.
     
  38. Putz

    Putz I have a custom title

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    problem is as difficulties go up and huge mining outfits with 100's and 1000's of gpus on the go its leave the little guy in the dust, i hope it all crashes and burns myself

    i dont think itll ever go away, i didnt mind it when it was gamers making a few bucks on gaming hardware after hours but whats its done to the pc gaming segment and the amount of wasted power for farms is gross
     
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  39. Ski

    Ski Gawd

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    what's that formula you used called?