Intel Z370 Chipset Could Support Kaby Lake, But Intel Will Not Allow It

Megalith

Megalith

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Guru 3D is confirming that Z370 will only support Coffee Lake processors, with a particular “shocker”: while the chipset could support Kaby Lake, Intel will not allow it. According to motherboard manufacturers, there is no reason the Z370 chipset cannot support last-gen Kaby Lake -- it is merely firmware restriction. Intel is telling them to only support Intel 8th-gen processors, Coffee Lake, on Z370.

We’ve seen it in the past, though: a BIOS update, all of the sudden, might enable other processors. The board partners are very tight-lipped about this, understandably. Earlier this week, you have already seen our Dutch colleagues from HWI try out a 7th-gen Celeron G3930 Kaby Lake-based processor on Z370. That processor got in the BIOS post code up to code 26, when it halted. Post code 26 is the graphics pass; all passes before that would have been valid, including memory and CPU.
 
This is such bullshit. :mad: I would've liked to stretch my upgrade a little further.
 
Ocellaris said:
Who the hell was planning to buy a shiny new Z370 board and then not stick a vastly superior Coffee Lake chip in it?
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I see this argument a lot on forums/comments and I don't understand it. What if I have a shitty Z170/Z270 (or just want newer/better features)? What if I want to eventually get a CFL chip but can only afford the board at the moment (or just see a really good deal)? What if my Z170/Z270 board dies (try finding a DDR3 board for the 6700K)? You act as if this is completely new architecture or even really a new chipset. Now, Intel claims that superior power delivery may be the reason why you can't run CFL on Z170/Z270, but then why wouldn't the older chips run on a "superior" platform? I'm sorry but this kind of thing is indefensible given what we know about the product. It's hard to have any sense of security in your hardware when a CPU and entire chipset less than a year old are being obsoleted for a platform that itself will be potentially obsoleted in even less time. I will of course wait for the launch to get the full details and may step back from this sort of rhetoric, but I could just as easily lay blame on Intel for being very uncommunicative about their plans.
 
I see clickbait and drama news is as great as ever. Desperados after the next clicks. Not fun losing all the revenue to wccftech, videocardz and random youtubers I guess.

I love how Guru3D even mess up their own logic.
According to some board partners the extra pins used on Z370 are merely supported voltage pahs.
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Electrical layout and properties changed.
 
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From the article:

"Over the past few weeks I have been talking to many motherboard manufacturers, and the story is the same"

So motherboard manufacturers are not Subject Matter Experts all of a sudden? Methinks you're the one not knowing the reality. I'd trust such info from multiple motherboard manufacturers.



Shintai said:
I see clickbait and drama news is as great as ever. Desperados after the next clicks. Not fun losing all the revenue to wccftech, videocardz and random youtubers I guess.

I love how Guru3D even mess up their own logic.


Electrical layout and properties changed.
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You know, I remember a time when a CPU could be run on multiple chipsets. Especially when there simply wasn't much difference between CPUs. My first Core 2 build was a Gigabyte 965p chipset based board with an E6400. I still have that board. I ran the E6400 until I decided to upgrade the CPU dropping in a Q6600 and it ran just fine. It is still running to this day. That same Q6600 also works just fine on a P35 chipset board. If I had a P45 chipset board I could run my Q6600 on that as well. The only real differences between the chipsets were expanded/new features and the ability to run newer CPUs on the newer chipsets but at the same time the new chipsets would support the older CPUs as well.

Being able to reuse the CPU I have which works perfectly for me on a newer board with a newer chipset and features I want is a good thing. There's no real reason for Intel to require a new CPU, which is little more than a small revision of the previous CPU, for a new chipset except to artificially force people to buy new CPUs as well.
 
I got the impression the 270 boards had serious power issues, and the 370 was the knee-jerk reaction to it; to not allow chips to work on the "Fixed" chipset seems foolhardy.

WTF Intel? Are we Giving the new market to AMD?
 
Z67 to Z77. 2600k for dayssss. Not so much anymore. However AMD said AM4 will last 4 years. One can only hope 4 years of CPU's will work on x370. (I haven't read otherwise)
 
Why would Intel do something like that? After all, we all know how they became so rich as a company.
 
Shintai said:
I see clickbait and drama news is as great as ever. Desperados after the next clicks. Not fun losing all the revenue to wccftech, videocardz and random youtubers I guess.

I love how Guru3D even mess up their own logic.


Electrical layout and properties changed.
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I assume you are going to buy a new board and processor without blinking an eye then, eh? Intel does not need to create a new chipset and socket for every generation but, they do because they can, people will buy it without flinching at all. (Good thing AMD is competitive once again.) :)
 
Last few weeks:
"Intel is a bunch of bastards, the 370 is exactly the same as the 270!?!? Why are they making us upgrade!?!?"

And now:
"Why is Intel not letting us upgrade to the thing I just said was exactly the same as what I have!?!?"

Come on man.
 
DigitalGriffin said:
In before someone defends them.
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We got a winner right after your post!

Ocellaris said:
Who the hell was planning to buy a shiny new Z370 board and then not stick a vastly superior Coffee Lake chip in it?
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The funny thing, i have said it over and over, intel areassholes, in need of a good spanking and that can be done by us the victims, by talking with our money.

AMD, here i come!
 
Same way that nVidia could support FreeSync with a driver update, but don't want too. If given a choice to vote with their wallet, both intel and nVidia are afraid of their customers choices. Need to force them to do things.
 
The best reason I can think of as to why Intel did this (and there always is a proper reason), is to reduce the risk of users hacking Z270 boards to support CFL.

If Z370 bioses openly support KBL, then it might make it all too easy for the right people with the right tools.

Furthermore, what prevents a given board maker from deliberately updating an old mobo to support a new chip?
Is there actually any clause preventing that? Other that it being a stupid move that'd reduce sales of your own Z370 boards?
 
Meh we used to be able to overclock non K chips, a firmware update fixed that bug.

If you bought a AM3+ board, you had like a decade of chips to choose from.

Its not the fact we are forced to buy a new board to support the new chip. Its 3-4 years down the road when our old mobo dies (whos cpu ever dies?) and we can buy a mobo for it. There are plenty of lga 2011v1 cpus collecting dust, because replacement mobos are $250+ becaue you cant use a V2 or V3 mobo.
 
Typical of Intel. They screw over everyone one way or another, and they're always thinking of new ways.
 
You guys are acting like this is something new from intel... they have been doing the same thing for a while now... they don't want or intend on you stretching your old hardware they want you always having to buy more...
 
I can see the board makers not putting up a stink either. Easy for them to say nope, gotta buy our new motherboard instead if you want that support. And if you want to complain, go to intel. It's their restriction..
 
Shintel and co could just admit that Intel are cocks, maybe just juan time? But no, Intel dindu nuffin as always guys!
Many of us remember the 775 days.

Keep clawing away at your enthusiast userbase, Intel. It will come back to bite you when the geeks who work at large companies stop recommending your stuff. Enthusiasts, while a small part of the market monetarily, are often a large driving force in IT and acquisition departments. The perception seems to carry through to to higher levels when there are not payouts and bribes from Intel, especially when AMD has a competing or superior product available.
 
Elf_Boy said:
Perhaps someone who can only upgrade one-two component at a time.

Not everyone has deep pockets and credit cards.
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I'm sorry, but under what circumstances would a Z370 motherboard offer any upgrade over a z270 motherboard? You make then "value" pitch here, so I assume you're on a Celeron/Pentium, so there's no easy option for overclock.

If you're having stability issues, then your motherboard is likely still under warranty.

If you're having performance issues, you'd get a better upgrade from going with a Core i3/i5 Kaby, rather than buy a new motherboard.

Just not seeing how someone with whom money is tight would have any reason to buy a newer chipset, EVEN IF IT supported the old processor. You buy the new board when you buy the new chip. And if you're smart, you make sure you can afford it then wait for a board sale.

Coffee Lake starts at $120 for i3 with four cores, so it's not so expensive to build a value-gamer system. YES they lock it down because they want their money, and because the VRMs on some of the Sky/Kaby entry-level boards can barely handle 2/4 core/thread. These are built with 6/12 core/thread in-mind.

This reminds me of the idiots who bought AMD 900-series motherboard that were exactly the same as their 800-series, in anticipation of Bulldozer. Just because they could run their old processors in it until they released Bulldozer. And then they were stuck with a new motherboard running their old Thuban for the next year or two. Buying a board you don't need now for a possible upgrade in the future makes no sense.

That's kinda thee same logic as wanting to use a Kaby processor in a newly-purchased Coffee. The new chipset is exactly the same as the old one.

And the argument of replacing a dead board comes-up empty as well. Sky/Kaby ARE STILL SHIPPING, and will be available for sale for as long as Haswell. That means the motherboards will still be available in retail for several more years. Because Intel is not killing-off Kaby right now, it's going to coexist with Coffee.
 
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KazeoHin said:
I think you missed the point.
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Entirely possible, but could you please educate me on what that is?

It's a new chipset with no functionality changes other than it supports a new CPU revision. If you are not running that CPU revision, why would you be upset you can't buy it?

Now to be clear, I totally understand the inverse issue - that people want to plug the new CPU in their existing motherboard and system. The value proposition of that is clear. While I work on the other side and know there's always more to it than is publicly stated in terms of why they can't support old CPUs - I still sympathize with the end user there.

I do not understand why anyone with a KBL would want to run a 370 whose entire reason to exist is solely to support the new processors. If you don't have enough money to upgrade both at once, then save your money and upgrade when you do. Or don't - but spending money for no increased functionality is at least on the surface a questionable plan.

Sorry for the snark in the previous post, I was doing a failed attempt at levity.
 
PhaseNoise said:
Entirely possible, but could you please educate me on what that is?

It's a new chipset with no functionality changes other than it supports a new CPU revision. If you are not running that CPU revision, why would you be upset you can't buy it?

Now to be clear, I totally understand the inverse issue - that people want to plug the new CPU in their existing motherboard and system. The value proposition of that is clear. While I work on the other side and know there's always more to it than is publicly stated in terms of why they can't support old CPUs - I still sympathize with the end user there.

I do not understand why anyone with a KBL would want to run a 370 whose entire reason to exist is solely to support the new processors. If you don't have enough money to upgrade both at once, then save your money and upgrade when you do. Or don't - but spending money for no increased functionality is at least on the surface a questionable plan.

Sorry for the snark in the previous post, I was doing a failed attempt at levity.
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I think the ONLY reason they're taking this stance is because they won't allow Z270 to support their newest CPUs. Hard to claim "oh it wouldn't work because it's totally different" if the old CPUs worked just fine in the new boards. It's a stupid move either way --- I doubt it's fooling anyone, and they're probably just pushing more people into the AMD camp. After all, if I want to upgrade from my Z270 / 7700k I'll need a new motherboard and CPU, not just a CPU. No incentive for me to stick with Intel at that point.
 
PhaseNoise said:
Entirely possible, but could you please educate me on what that is?

It's a new chipset with no functionality changes other than it supports a new CPU revision. If you are not running that CPU revision, why would you be upset you can't buy it?

Now to be clear, I totally understand the inverse issue - that people want to plug the new CPU in their existing motherboard and system. The value proposition of that is clear. While I work on the other side and know there's always more to it than is publicly stated in terms of why they can't support old CPUs - I still sympathize with the end user there.

I do not understand why anyone with a KBL would want to run a 370 whose entire reason to exist is solely to support the new processors. If you don't have enough money to upgrade both at once, then save your money and upgrade when you do. Or don't - but spending money for no increased functionality is at least on the surface a questionable plan.

Sorry for the snark in the previous post, I was doing a failed attempt at levity.
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In case of main board failures, finding a new Z270 board would be scarce after a year of Z370 sales. So essentially, if you want to keep a system going after a mainboard fault, you would need to buy a new CPU and mainboard. If Z370 allowed 6k and 7k chips, this wouldn't be an issue.
 
This better eventually change with a bios update for my board. I just rebuilt my rig earlier this summer. I’d love to slap a coffee lake in there without buying a new board.

-edit- I’d need a new cooler though. The one I got cries every time I do something demanding.
 
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