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Intel Skulltrail Preview @ [H]

Oppy said:
Could you run folding at home (3 or 4 instances) on it and go play say crysis for me?


Iam not sure how many here fold 24/7 and play games on the same system. I have for 5 years now and cant see changing that anytime soon , and if this thing is what it appears to be I might have an upgrade in the future.
Click to expand...

I do all the time. Crysis and Oblivion + 4 FAH instances... With no slowdown.
 
Dan_D said:
Actually that's the point. Intel markets this as the ultimate gaming and enthusiast platform. To be fair they do state that it is the ultimate platform for content creation but we wanted to show the readers what if anything Skulltrail could do for you. If you'll notice the [H] doesn't review server equipment or workstation motherboards. We approached this as an enthusiast product, and not a workstation product.

Remember, Quadro's aren't locked out of SLI on non-NVIDIA chipsets. However this board was specifically designed to offer consumer level SLI for gaming purposes. I think there are a lot of you thinking of this as a server or workstation part and as I stated in the article opening, it is not that type of product, yet it is built on that architecture.
Click to expand...

This motherboard is just silly then. :D

Maybe it wont be in a few years but by then the tech it supports will be old.

What a viscous circle.
 
You can only buy it with a system build but IIRC HP uses an Nvidia 680i motherboard with a BIOS that allows Crossfire or SLI. This is with their Blackbird system. It's still a noteworthy feature, especially since you can't get the other board as an individual component. But not quite first.
 
tnu5 said:
Yes...

I'm not trying to be a douche bag here or maybe I am...

why didn't you like do a Maya benchmark or.... something?

All I see is a gaming benchmark. I want a Maya, or.... something non-game based mark. :(

Why? I've never really seen a dual cpu gaming machine, not much use. I suppose to host a game server and play at the same time? I guess that could be it...
Click to expand...

We focus on gaming here. It is our mainstay. If you want workstation benchmarks you will need to go elsewhere. We are NOT qualified to evaluate how good of a workstation it is as we do not have any basis of comparison.


There is however a list of applications in the conclusion of programs that do take advantage of 8 cores and Maya is not on that list.
 
While it is not outlined in the spec sheet anywhere, this is mentioned in the installation guide on the topic on installing memory.

Desktop board D5400XS has four 240-pin FBDIMM sockets providing quad-channel memory support with one DIMM per channel.
Click to expand...

So YES, the motherboard does support quad-channel memory. Going through the documents, in the installation guide is the only place I see note of this.

The kit was not supplied by Intel with the right RAM configuration to show this and quite frankly I am not going to start investing in FB-DIMMs to show it off. If Intel did not think it was important, then I guess would would have been shipped a preview kit with four sticks of RAM. Bottom line is that while it might change some of the synthetic benchmark outcomes, it is not going to impact real world testing or the user experience in a gaming capacity.
 
It's meant for the people that buy Tri-SLI setups... but it doesn't support tri-sli... :eek::D
 
Dan_D said:
There is nothing preventing another company from using a 5400 chipset and nForce 100 or 200MCPs. I would not be surprised if ASUS made their own Skulltrail-esque board at some point.
Click to expand...

I've seen some rumor pics on the interweb that has ASUS building an enthusists dual processor board but the rumors suggest that it will only support CrossfireX, not SLi.



Dan_D said:
The ATI driver probably detects the Intel chipset and ok's the use of Crossfire. In any case there are enough lanes on the board to handle either 3-Way SLI or Crossfire-X in any configuration. Each slot is capable of a full x16 lanes of bandwidth.
Click to expand...
So, in theory, you could get 6X crossfire running on this board by mounting 2 standard HD 3870's in the inner PCIe slots and 2 HD 3870x2's in the outer slots - this way you could connect all of the cards through the available crossfire connectors. Because only 3 connectors are required to connect the 4 cards.

Please say it's so!!! and if you get a chance to test it,,,, (hint,hint);)


Dan_D said:
I wish I had more information on this but NVIDIA only told us what I mentioned above. They claim that under no circumstances will Skulltrail ever be capable of 3-Way SLI.
Click to expand...
This Nvidia trying to save their chipset business again.:p
 
I get the feeling that Intel just repackaged the Mac Pro's motherboard and billed it as an enthusiast system. Not necessarily a bad thing, but certainly not the ideal gaming platform. Given the target audience (content creation), and the already-high price point, I have to wonder if professionals will honestly pick an expensive DIY platform over the new Mac Pro workstation.
 
Novel idea. Now ditch the FB-DIMMs.

Remember SLI used to require a Xeon based server motherboard? And now it doesn't? Hopefully Intel follows that route; after constraining it they "let it loose" and make the platform slightly more enthusiast-friendly...
 
Dan_D said:
According to NVIDIA the nForce 100 MCPs are incapable of 3-Way SLI. They have provided no details as to why that is. I think the MCP's providing extra PCIe lanes is transparent to the ATI driver. The ATI driver probably detects the Intel chipset and ok's the use of Crossfire. In any case there are enough lanes on the board to handle either 3-Way SLI or Crossfire-X in any configuration. Each slot is capable of a full x16 lanes of bandwidth.
Click to expand...

Intel had to do something that lets crossfire work in the nVidia slots. I've tried crossfire on the 5000X chipset with two 1950XTXs plugged into a riser with an nVidia switch chip and it doesn't work. The ATI drivers install fine when only one card is installed, but as soon as you put in the second, it fails to boot. Granted this was with the 6.12 drivers, maybe I need to go try it with the 8.1s...
 
I can't understand the FB-DIMM choice and number of DIMM slots. FB-DIMM's are great in servers, since they allow massive RAM scaling at a minimal performance loss, but...this board only has four FB-DIMM slots. That kind of defeats the whole purpose in using FB-DIMMs. I would think that given how this is billed for professionals, it would have at least eight slots, maybe even twelve or sixteen.
 
IF YOUR REALLY WANT TO BENCHMARK A SYSTEM DONT USE CRYSIS. USE MICROSOFT FLIGHT SIMULATOR X. GOOD LUCK.
 
apopilot said:
IF YOUR REALLY WANT TO BENCHMARK A SYSTEM DONT USE CRYSIS. USE MICROSOFT FLIGHT SIMULATOR X. GOOD LUCK.
Click to expand...

Honestly I don't think Kyle or myself ever considered Flight Simulator until Intel told us it would utilize 8 cores. However neither myself or Kyle had a copy of it.

I think how Crysis performs on a machine is relevent though. I couldn't imagine doing this article without Crysis benches.
 
I agree about Crysis, I just don't think its a good software program to test on. After about 2 months of it being out I have figured out a few things:

1. Its a great graphics game and fun for single player play
2. It has a horrible multi-player game
3. It was a bad designed game overall in terms of support for SLI and Crossfire (This technology has been out for a while so this game should of had support out of the box for t his.)
4. Most of the more popular PC games in a way take advantage of multi gpu setups.
 
Intel should win some kind of award (along the lines of a Darwin award) for not including 4 memory sticks... Twice the bandwidth might make up for FB-DIMMS. What's with only 4 dimm slots? If I were interested in building one of these, I'm sure I'd go 4 x 2GB, and I would want an upgrade path that didn't consist of trying to sell the old sticks...

I still want one though.
 
RCGodward said:
Intel should win some kind of award (along the lines of a Darwin award) for not including 4 memory sticks... Twice the bandwidth might make up for FB-DIMMS. What's with only 4 dimm slots? If I were interested in building one of these, I'm sure I'd go 4 x 2GB, and I would want an upgrade path that didn't consist of trying to sell the old sticks...

I still want one though.
Click to expand...

There isn't room on the PCB with the way it is currently designed. I don't know how they'd get more than 4 slots on this thing.
 
I've seen some rumor pics on the interweb that has ASUS building an enthusists dual processor board but the rumors suggest that it will only support CrossfireX, not SLi.
Click to expand...

z7s-1.jpg


SLI over intel is interesting but this monster is just to expensive. The only people that need 8 cores and FB memory would probably be using quadros anyways.
 
sd11 said:
z7s-1.jpg


SLI over intel is interesting but this monster is just to expensive. The only people that need 8 cores and FB memory would probably be using quadros anyways.
Click to expand...

God that board has a horrid layout.

As far as price is concerned we have an idea about the CPU and FB-DIMM costs, but the motherboard price hasn't been disclosed.
 
I personally don't think Crysis is a relevant benchmark. Even on the top systems, it gets around 30 fps on average, hardly goes above that, but often drops down to sub-20 level. Its the story will every single Crysis bench I see (real-world gameplay of course). It gives a user a wrong idea that all cards perform the same (based on one game). Yes, it looks snappy, but its unoptimized and honestly, even at the highest graphical levels, it doesn't even look that good. Yes, its one of the best looking games ever, but hey, its not THAT above everything. Gameplay wise its still in 2004.
 
Vorazan said:
I personally don't think Crysis is a relevant benchmark. Even on the top systems, it gets around 30 fps on average, hardly goes above that, but often drops down to sub-20 level. Its the story will every single Crysis bench I see (real-world gameplay of course). It gives a user a wrong idea that all cards perform the same (based on one game). Yes, it looks snappy, but its unoptimized and honestly, even at the highest graphical levels, it doesn't even look that good. Yes, its one of the best looking games ever, but hey, its not THAT above everything. Gameplay wise its still in 2004.
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. We focus on gaming and it is one of the best selling and newest game engines out so Dan and I thought it was absolutely relevant.

As for giving anyone the idea that all cards perform the same, well, I am not even sure where you got that idea.
 
Dan_D said:
As far as price is concerned we have an idea about the CPU and FB-DIMM costs, but the motherboard price hasn't been disclosed.
Click to expand...


Popular opinion is guessing above $400.00 but below $600.00 - But it's still just an opinion.
And I don't think that Intel will price it's self out of a market on this board.

The primary focus for this board is Gamers - not workstations.
Intel, Tyan, Asus, and Supermicro all develop very good workstation/server motherboards that can already run Nvidia Quadro's in SLi. I'm not sure about Tri-Sli though.

And Intel was smart enough to not lock the board to just one cpu, like AMD did with the 4 X 4. Which was a purely enthusists board.

And right now you can buy a quad core Xeon for less than $300.00 - So, $500 for the MB, $600 for CPUs, and another $400 or so for memory.
That's $1500.00 - I spent more than that building a 486-66 system back in the day.
So, there is a kind of reasonable starting point for the SkullTrail that will let you have an upgrade path for a while.

That seems like what most peeps will end up doing until the QX9775's drop in price.
I'm looking forward to it.!
 
Vorazan said:
Also, best selling? The game didn't even sell 100k copies.
Click to expand...
Sold a million, actually, according to EA.

Skulltrail's interesting. From a server/workstation perspective, I actually rather like it. The thing here though -- and I know I'll get flamed for it -- I think I'd rather spend a few thousand on an 8-way Mac Pro with an 8800 GT, but that's just given my preference toward the operating system and not so much the hardware itself.

Still, that's a gorgeous board. Black PCB and no offensive neon colors? Sign me up for that. Would look great with a pair of 8800 Ultras in an Antec P182 SE with the original P182 gunmetal panels (and not the off-putting polished panels) ;)
 
sd11 said:
z7s-1.jpg


SLI over intel is interesting but this monster is just to expensive. The only people that need 8 cores and FB memory would probably be using quadros anyways.
Click to expand...

Nice find! But the sad thing is that it's a freaking terrible layout! Can anyone read Japanese from this SITE and let us know what socket it's using?

edit: never mind, found that it's the ASUS Z7S-WS Dual LGA 771 also using the 771 socket and pricing around $600. http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=51587
 
Vorazan said:
Kyle, with all due respect, the maximum fps people ever gotten on a triple-SLI system in Crysis was like 35. And it wasn't even average.

Also, best selling? The game didn't even sell 100k copies. Newest? Yes. Best-selling? No. I can't play any first person shooter under 60fps.

I wonder how many generations it will take for graphics hardware to catchup to Crysis. And I also wonder if anyone will still remember it by then.
Click to expand...

I'd say yes. We had the same issues with Farcry when it came out. It took a couple of generations of hardware, but the technology did catch up to the game.

jebo_4jc said:
I'm surprised you said this. In your summary of the CPU tests: In the Crysis real-world test, you said, So, wouldn't the quad channel RAM help overcome these limitations you mentioned?


Also, I can't believe people are complaining about benching Crysis. It's the most demanding game available. Of course I want to know how today's top hardware performs on it!
Click to expand...

Quad-Channel RAM may in fact effect performance in some sythetic benchmarks and to a degree the games themselves. However as Kyle said, he's not investing in FB-DIMMs for a few tests. If Intel thought that Quad-Channel memory configurations would have enough of an impact then they should have included 4 DIMMs in their review kits.

Additionally as I learned from my NUMA enabled Opteron days, raw bandwidth alone isn't the end all of memory performance. Latency and timings are also part of the equation. In this regard Skulltrail will always likely be behind the 780i and Intel desktop chipsets such as P35 and X38/X48.

phide said:
Still, that's a gorgeous board. Black PCB and no offensive neon colors? Sign me up for that. Would look great with a pair of 8800 Ultras in an Antec P182 SE with the original P182 gunmetal panels (and not the off-putting polished panels) ;)
Click to expand...

It is a sweet looking board. I totally agree with that. However the Intel D5400XS motherboard is an E-ATX form factor motherboard. It will not fit in an Antec P182SE or P182 cases. You'd need the Coolermaster Cosmos, Antec P190, Coolermaster Stacker's and a number of other cases designed for E-ATX motherboard compatibility.
 
Interesting idea, and cool-looking board, but this can't be worth it for anyone other than people with huge e-peen complexes, the guys over at Xtreme, or people with no clue and thousands of dollars to burn. As for most enthusiasts, I don't see this catching on, unless they're building a completely new system, have a ton of cash, and are heavy into video encoding/maya, etc.

Oh well, nice preview anyways. Now I know I don't have to worry about it :p
 
ASIA911 said:
Nice find! But the sad thing is that it's a freaking terrible layout! Can anyone read Japanese from this SITE and let us know what socket it's using?

edit: never mind, found that it's the ASUS Z7S-WS Dual LGA 771 also using the 771 socket and pricing around $600. http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=51587
Click to expand...

I'd still rather use this Asus board. 10 Sata onboard along with 2 PCIe 2.0 slots, 4 gig ethernet and room for 8 FB-Dimms, 6 FB-Dimms is almost as dumb as 4.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131250
 
I believe EA reported Crysis selling over 1 million copies...Seems like a good seller!
 
Citizen86 said:
My god that's an expensive mobo.... Probably about the same as the Skulltrail will be eh?
Click to expand...

Skulltrail will probably cost that much or more. Again Intel didn't disclose actual pricing but I suspect it will be close to that price range.

sd11 said:
I think the point of ASUS board is that it's close to ATX in size.
Click to expand...

Probably. ASUS has done boards like that in the past. MSI is also known for doing that.
 
jebo_4jc said:
but can it OC?
Click to expand...

I don't know the answer to that, but I do know that so far the Intel D5400XS doesn't overclock very well at all. All the overclocking I did was a result of CPU multiplier adjustments.
 
sd11 said:
I think the point of ASUS board is that it's close to ATX in size.
Click to expand...

Looks like getting those cpus cooled would be a pain in the Asus board, especially in an atx case. Would have to have intake or exhaust right from the side panel, or some kind of intake vent that would pull air in from an open Rom panel. I'm no engineer but not sure why they would not put the cpus closer to the rear of the board...
 
Dan_D said:
I don't know the answer to that, but I do know that so far the Intel D5400XS doesn't overclock very well at all. All the overclocking I did was a result of CPU multiplier adjustments.
Click to expand...
Sure, but starting iwth a 1066fsb CPU would be a different story :)
 
Dan_D said:
...the Intel D5400XS motherboard is an E-ATX form factor motherboard. It will not fit in an Antec P182SE or P182 cases.
Click to expand...
I actually figured that might be the case after I thought about it, and I guess I didn't catch that it was E-ATX when I read the review. Oh well -- the P190's certainly a worthy alternative.
 
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