Intel Skulltrail Preview @ [H]

Dan_D said:
If I had existing PCI-X cards I wanted to install in the system, then yes I'd agree, but if you are building a new system there is no reason I can think of not to go all PCI-Express.

Anyway I agree 100% with your comment that this is a platform meant for a gaming+work system. Again it is like a Aston Martin or something. There are plenty of things just as fast, just not as nice. Unlike the Aston Martin though, this is not only high end but specialized. Specialized for the gamer, and CAD/3D Studio Max/Maya crowd.
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Here's the thing, as somebody who uses dual CPU boxes at work, and has had them at home, this is a product I'd be interested in. But as that type of person, I do have rather nice PCIX cards...

but if you are building a new system there is no reason I can think of not to go all PCI-Express.
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If you're on a budget yes, but PCIX is still pretty standard.

This just seems half assed. Either you're the type that has FB and PCIX, or you are not. Pick one side and go with it, why half ass it?
 
sd11 said:
Here's the thing, as somebody who uses dual CPU boxes at work, and has had them at home, this is a product I'd be interested in. But as that type of person, I do have rather nice PCIX cards...



If you're on a budget yes, but PCIX is still pretty standard.

This just seems half assed. Either you're the type that has FB and PCIX, or you are not. Pick one side and go with it, why half ass it?
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Your points are lost on me. What does PCIX and FB-DIMMs have anything to do with each other?

PCI-Express is the new standard. There is nothing wrong with PCIX and there are plenty of high end cards still offered in that bus type, but there are plenty of nice RAID controllers and other devices to be had in PCI-Express. PCI-X will still be around for some time, but I just don't see a reason to buy PCI-X cards over PCI-Express.
 
Dan_D said:
Your points are lost on me. What does PCIX and FB-DIMMs have anything to do with each other?

PCI-Express is the new standard. There is nothing wrong with PCIX and there are plenty of high end cards still offered in that bus type, but there are plenty of nice RAID controllers and other devices to be had in PCI-Express. PCI-X will still be around for some time, but I just don't see a reason to buy PCI-X cards over PCI-Express.
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Uggghhhhh

One of the biggest upsides, to many, for server class boards is PCIX slots, hence why desktop workstation boards still use the.

One of the biggest downsides in a desktop style configuration is the FB DIMMS, hence why desktop workstation boards do not use them.

To ME (and can't say ME enough here) this is an issue. If I wanted an overclockable workstation I can get one with PCIX! ASUS and others make great ones. If I want a dual GPU dual CPU workstation I can't get one, I have one at work!

As I said before, and you agreed, it's a workstation+gaming rig, and hats off for that. However, given that, isn't lack of PCIX silly? I know you don't use it, but I don't think you use workstation class boards either. For those of us who do, it's a hit.

Where I could see this, ditching the multiple boxes I have at home and doing a consolidation, but lack of PCIX is killer. If it's going to lack that, it's a gaming box, in which case FB DIMMS kill it.
 
sd11 said:
Uggghhhhh

One of the biggest upsides, to many, for server class boards is PCIX slots, hence why desktop workstation boards still use the.

One of the biggest downsides in a desktop style configuration is the FB DIMMS, hence why desktop workstation boards do not use them.

To ME (and can't say ME enough here) this is an issue. If I wanted an overclockable workstation I can get one with PCIX! ASUS and others make great ones. If I want a dual GPU dual CPU workstation I can't get one, I have one at work!

As I said before, and you agreed, it's a workstation+gaming rig, and hats off for that. However, given that, isn't lack of PCIX silly? I know you don't use it, but I don't think you use workstation class boards either. For those of us who do, it's a hit.

Where I could see this, ditching the multiple boxes I have at home and doing a consolidation, but lack of PCIX is killer. If it's going to lack that, it's a gaming box, in which case FB DIMMS kill it.
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What are you talking about? Since Dempsey all Intel workstation boards have been FB-Dimm based. Unless your talking about 3000 series chipsets, but those are practically desktop boards anyway, not "workstation" boards.

Lack of of PCI-X doesn't really matter if you're buying new raid controllers, what else are you using the PCI-X slot for, another nic, fiber card, they all come PCIe too.
 
ND40oz said:
What are you talking about? Since Dempsey all Intel workstation boards have been FB-Dimm based. Unless your talking about 3000 series chipsets, but those are practically desktop boards anyway, not "workstation" boards.

Lack of of PCI-X doesn't really matter if you're buying new raid controllers, what else are you using the PCI-X slot for, another nic, fiber card, they all come PCIe too.
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Read what I said.

I know that, I meant the ASUS boards using desktop procs that passed off as workstation.

if PCIX doesn't matter, why do they all still have it? I don't need fiber at home.

There is a reason I never went with a bastard board, it just doesn't work. This seems to be more of the same.
 
sd11 said:
Uggghhhhh

One of the biggest upsides, to many, for server class boards is PCIX slots, hence why desktop workstation boards still use the.

One of the biggest downsides in a desktop style configuration is the FB DIMMS, hence why desktop workstation boards do not use them.

To ME (and can't say ME enough here) this is an issue. If I wanted an overclockable workstation I can get one with PCIX! ASUS and others make great ones. If I want a dual GPU dual CPU workstation I can't get one, I have one at work!

As I said before, and you agreed, it's a workstation+gaming rig, and hats off for that. However, given that, isn't lack of PCIX silly? I know you don't use it, but I don't think you use workstation class boards either. For those of us who do, it's a hit.

Where I could see this, ditching the multiple boxes I have at home and doing a consolidation, but lack of PCIX is killer. If it's going to lack that, it's a gaming box, in which case FB DIMMS kill it.
Click to expand...

sd11 said:
Read what I said.

I know that, I meant the ASUS boards using desktop procs that passed off as workstation.

if PCIX doesn't matter, why do they all still have it? I don't need fiber at home.

There is a reason I never went with a bastard board, it just doesn't work. This seems to be more of the same.
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I read it exactly as you wrote it. The 5000X chipset is the old workstation chipset and the 5400 supplants it. We're not talking about single processor boards, we're talking about dual processor workstation boards.

So your reasoning behind having PCIX is that all the other boards have it, not that you actually have a use for it?

And here's another Seaburg board with no PCIX: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131251

I also do not understanding why you can't have a dual CPU, dual GPU workstation. I've have one running for a year and a half (2 woodcrest and SLI) and I just ordered another board today to run crossfire with 2 quads.
 
sd11 said:
As I said before, and you agreed, it's a workstation+gaming rig, and hats off for that. However, given that, isn't lack of PCIX silly? I know you don't use it, but I don't think you use workstation class boards either. For those of us who do, it's a hit.
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Actually I do use workstation class boards. I've been running SMP rigs for some time. Its' only in the last year that I haven't in my main machine and that is due to the dual core and quad core offerings being so good. I recently got rid of the last of my dual Opteron rigs. I prefer server/workstation hardware for many reasons. Stability being key. I actually have a PCI-X RAID controller and quite a few Ultra 320 SCSI disks I'd like to use. However I don't need that for this rig. I could use a board with a PCI-X slot but it doesn't have to be this one. Using Skulltrail as my main gaming rig doesn't necessitate me needing PCI-X. Yes you may need or want it but not everyone does. If you want to use existing PCI-X cards then yes, by all means get a different board. I do want another workstation board that has PCI-X for a file server. Again my main workstation/gaming box doesn't need it. I intend to make changes to my setup very soon. I plan on using a D5400XS motherboard in my main rig soon. By going with dual Xeons I can eliminate a physical machine. I do a lot of video encoding and VM stuff. So there is appeal there. I plan on building a file server that will just hold the bulk of my drives. That machine will need a PCI-X slot in it. I'll probably just go with an ASUS workstation board and re-use my Core 2 Quad Q6600.

And again if you are building a brand new machine with all new parts and you aren't re-using anything, you don't need PCI-X. You can get everything made in PCI-X in PCI-Express.

sd11 said:
Where I could see this, ditching the multiple boxes I have at home and doing a consolidation, but lack of PCIX is killer. If it's going to lack that, it's a gaming box, in which case FB DIMMS kill it.
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Yes FB-DIMMs are less than ideal, but they aren't a deal breaker for me. Actually, despite having FB-DIMMs the platform performs really well. Yes machines running standard 1066MHz modules will be faster in some applications.

ND40oz said:
What are you talking about? Since Dempsey all Intel workstation boards have been FB-Dimm based. Unless your talking about 3000 series chipsets, but those are practically desktop boards anyway, not "workstation" boards.

Lack of of PCI-X doesn't really matter if you're buying new raid controllers, what else are you using the PCI-X slot for, another nic, fiber card, they all come PCIe too.
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I agree 100%. If you are re-using some PCI-X controllers or cards that would be too expensive to replace then by all means, get a board that has what you need. I would.

sd11 said:
Read what I said.

I know that, I meant the ASUS boards using desktop procs that passed off as workstation.

if PCIX doesn't matter, why do they all still have it? I don't need fiber at home.

There is a reason I never went with a bastard board, it just doesn't work. This seems to be more of the same.
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No one said PCI-Express wasn't relevant. However Intel obviously didn't target this board to individulas who need PCI-X card support. This board is designed for multiple video cards and PCI-Express controllers to be used. Intel clearly didn't care about legacy hardware at all with this thing. Hence the complete lack of it. The only legacy support here lies in the inclusion of one EIDE port and two legacy PCI 2.2 slots. No floppy port, no serial ports, no parallel ports and no PS/2 ports are found on this thing. So if you need legacy support this clearly isn't the board for you.

ND40oz said:
I read it exactly as you wrote it. The 5000X chipset is the old workstation chipset and the 5400 supplants it. We're not talking about single processor boards, we're talking about dual processor workstation boards.

So your reasoning behind having PCIX is that all the other boards have it, not that you actually have a use for it?

And here's another Seaburg board with no PCIX: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131251

I also do not understanding why you can't have a dual CPU, dual GPU workstation. I've have one running for a year and a half (2 woodcrest and SLI) and I just ordered another board today to run crossfire with 2 quads.
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I'm with you on this.

It is also clear that Intel is pushing for PCI-Express to replace PCI-X very quickly. PCI-X is still found on quite a few boards but it is becoming more of an after thought on many new boards if they have it at all.
 
ND40oz said:
I also do not understanding why you can't have a dual CPU, dual GPU workstation. I've have one running for a year and a half (2 woodcrest and SLI) and I just ordered another board today to run crossfire with 2 quads.
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Hi. Which board did you order and which cards are you going to run in CF? Also, what is your memory config going to be IYDMMA?
 
I also do not understanding why you can't have a dual CPU, dual GPU workstation. I've have one running for a year and a half (2 woodcrest and SLI) and I just ordered another board today to run crossfire with 2 quads.
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I've already used them:rolleyes:

However since they run quadros, they aren't the best gaming boxes.

So your reasoning behind having PCIX is that all the other boards have it, not that you actually have a use for it?
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Both reasons.
 
APOLLO said:
Hi. Which board did you order and which cards are you going to run in CF? Also, what is your memory config going to be IYDMMA?
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I went with the Asus DSEB-DG, haven't decided on the memory configuration yet, I have 10 sticks of 1 gig FB-Dimms but they're all 667, I might just buy 4 - 2 gig sticks of 800. For now, I'll just be running the 1 gig sticks. I'll be using my existing 2900XTs.

sd11 said:
I've already used them:rolleyes:

However since they run quadros, they aren't the best gaming boxes.

Both reasons.
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I still don't see your reasoning behind PCIX slots, since you still haven't stated what you'll be using them for.

Quadro's might not be the "best" gaming card available, but they certainly hold their own, it's not like they're alot worse then their equivalent geforce when you throw a game at them. They might not have the nVidia driver optimizations for specific games but they still perform.
 
ND40oz said:
I went with the Asus DSEB-DG, haven't decided on the memory configuration yet, I have 10 sticks of 1 gig FB-Dimms but they're all 667, I might just buy 4 - 2 gig sticks of 800. For now, I'll just be running the 1 gig sticks. I'll be using my existing 2900XTs.
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Very nice board! I really like the layout and feature set. If you wish to sell off some of your memory in the future, PM me. I might be needing more in a month or two.
 
GDstew4 said:
What can you guys tell me about GameSpot's results and how they got their numbers?

http://www.gamespot.com/features/61...topslot;title;3&om_act=convert&om_clk=topslot
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They used completely different settings than we did. I did two different types of tests. I basically did super low resolution lowest quality settings and highest resolution tests with the highest quality settings. If the highest settings weren't playable I tweaked the game slightly until I could get close to 30FPS on average and tested both systems with identical settings. Crysis was tested at 1680x1050 as that's about the highest resolution playable on any system.
 
Replicant1911 said:
Very cool "preview" or whatever you called it.
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Well its' really a preview because you can't actually buy these things yet. Intel hasn't really launched them. They still have a target date of Q1 2008 for actual availability. I can say that they are pretty close to release as the BIOS version 821 for the board is listed on their website as the first production BIOS. The BIOS was not changed from 780 as far as I know. At least nothing changed on the surface so that likely means that the hardware and BIOS are finalized so now they are just likely ramping up production for an actual release. That is the way it seems to me at present.
 
So what's the price already? Why so secretive? Are they doing somekind of fans reaction survey? The price must be right out of the roof if they are so scare to annouce it and lose big chunk of the people's interests.
 
ASIA911 said:
So what's the price already? Why so secretive? Are they doing somekind of fans reaction survey? The price must be right out of the roof if they are so scare to annouce it and lose big chunk of the people's interests.
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I don't think Dan or anyone at [H] know yet for certain. If there was a price NDA someone would have mentioned it by now. Look north of $600.
 
APOLLO said:
I don't think Dan or anyone at [H] know yet for certain. If there was a price NDA someone would have mentioned it by now. Look north of $600.
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I'm guessing that Intel itself hasn't settled on a price yet. Perhaps waiting to see what market conditions are like when they're finally ready to release it out into the wild.
 
Hmm, I have a pair of Xeon 5160's and 8 x 1gb sticks of fbdimm 667 sitting around. Not enough memory slots for all of that, but 4 is fine, I'll sell the rest.
I think this board would be a nice fit, assuming the cost isn't TOO high.

Dan_D said:
The Skulltrail motherboard supports only 5400 series Xeons, 5200 series and I think 5300 series processors and of course the Core 2 Extreme QX9775 processor.
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And the 5100 series, right? Right? :(
 
Would this be worth if you got one CPU & video card to start? the way I see it is that I see a motherboard with ton of upgrade options. Ill start off with one midrange quad penryn CPU and a 1 video card, I could upgrade to a 2nd CPU down the line if needed, same goes with the video cards, I could do crossfire X in the future, or that a stupid idea?

just saying.....
 
Rob Black said:
Would this be worth if you got one CPU & video card to start? the way I see it is that I see a motherboard with ton of upgrade options. Ill start off with one midrange quad penryn CPU and a 1 video card, I could upgrade to a 2nd CPU down the line if needed, same goes with the video cards, I could do crossfire X in the future, or that a stupid idea?
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I don't see any reason why it can't be done. There isn't the inherent disadvantage present in Opteron systems where the NB is located ondie, thus limiting the number of onboard devices that can be operational when only one processor is installed. What processor(s) are you thinking about, BTW? This is a socket-771 board.
 
farfromhome said:
Doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Spending $216 for a low-speed dual-core when $270 will get you a higher-speed quad-core (Q6600) on a normal LGA 775 motherboard. Skulltrail only makes sense as an upgrade path if you get a fast quad-core now, and then match it with another one later.
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I think you quoted the wrong link. His intended purchase is a quad core processor. Harpertown = 45nm Clovertown.
 
APOLLO said:
I think you quoted the wrong link. His intended purchase is a quad core processor. Harpertown = 45nm Clovertown.
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He must have changed the link while I was replying, as I certainly didn't edit the quoted section. ;) That Harpertown looks a lot better, especially if it overclocks well. :D
 
farfromhome said:
He must have changed the link while I was replying, as I certainly didn't edit the quoted section. ;) That Harpertown looks a lot better, especially if it overclocks well. :D
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Yeah, I figured as much. He probably linked to the wrong page at first.

Harpertown is a very good processor, but didn't Intel report errata for Harpertown?
 
APOLLO said:
Yeah, I figured as much. He probably linked to the wrong page at first.
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Yeah I linked the wrong CPU at 1st, my bad. :)

Two overclocked 2.0GHz Xeon's w/ 4 ATI 3870's cards would make a good gaming/video editing box, hmmmmmm
 
runner6m said:
Hmm, I have a pair of Xeon 5160's and 8 x 1gb sticks of fbdimm 667 sitting around. Not enough memory slots for all of that, but 4 is fine, I'll sell the rest.
I think this board would be a nice fit, assuming the cost isn't TOO high.



And the 5100 series, right? Right? :(
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I do not believe so. Unfortunately I don't have complete documentation on the Skulltrail board. I just have a few things that Intel sent in their documents and CPU support is very sketchy. I know the 54xx sereies and 52xx series are supported. Beyond that I can not say as I don't know.
 
Rob Black said:
Two overclocked 2.0GHz Xeon's w/ 4 ATI 3870's cards would make a good gaming/video editing box, hmmmmmm
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I would settle for two E5320s@~2.7GHz and one or two HD3870 X2 card(s). The Clovertowns are available for cheap and I don't believe Harpertown will make much of a performance difference over Clovertown until the new instruction sets become widely supported. Dan, what do you think about the new Penryn instruction sets?

If Skulltrail supports my ES 5340 Xeon processors, I might just purchase it providing the price is reasonable. I have four good 1GB Hynix modules to throw in there as well. It would make a nice workstation with any multi-GPU video subsystem.
 
Skulltrail is taking way too long. Just gonna hold on to my 780i I have and see how nehalem pans out and goes from there.
 
McCartney said:
Skulltrail is taking way too long. Just gonna hold on to my 780i I have and see how nehalem pans out and goes from there.
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Yeah, I got tired of waiting too, especially since Seaburg boards have been trickling out since Sept. Intel needs to get this out before people just give up and decide to wait for Nehalem.
 
Two QX9775s will be here Monday to pop into the SKulltrail . . .visited the mothership today (Danger Den) to get the mobo tray modded to accomodate the 4th GPU (not using the PCI-E slot for the 4th GPU . . .extending it instead so I can use non-modifed waterblocks).
 
DarthBeavis said:
Two QX9775s will be here Monday to pop into the SKulltrail . . .visited the mothership today (Danger Den) to get the mobo tray modded to accomodate the 4th GPU (not using the PCI-E slot for the 4th GPU . . .extending it instead so I can use non-modifed waterblocks).
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Are you going to update your original thread when you install all the new components?
 
Intel might be planning to come out with more than one version of this piece and is actually looking to you to see if it is a viable gaming platform and, if not, what would they have to change to make it into one.

It really does look like a workstation and should probably be compared to similar boards for a proper review. It looks to me like a virtualization platform. I don't know much about this area like how well a virtual OS can use the graphics system. We had a place across the street where I live that charged by the hour for people to come in and game, The game servers were all on a server and each player had their own computer. They would then connect to the server and play each other. If you could run a server and a couple instances of XP (or Vista) and relace three or four machines, then at least that would justify the price. Maybe they were thinking it would be good for lan parties.

I saw this program called Mojopac. Again, I never tried it and don't know much about it but they say it can use the full power of a grapic card. Maybe you might consider installing some sort of virtualization and game off of that. You could allocate how many CPUs the game could use to each instance and run them all to see how that performs. The bottleneck might turn out to be the memory that each would need or the graphic power that would need to be divided among them. Can you allocate a different card slot to each processor?

The review you did and the one over at Tom's hardware were reviews that needed to be done with this. Now that it is established to not be a good game platform in the traditional sense, then what CAN be done with it? Who knows what Intel had in mind. Maybe it was just running a huge multi-monitor display and gaming with that.

--TomS
 
slave_labor said:
Intel might be planning to come out with more than one version of this piece and is actually looking to you to see if it is a viable gaming platform and, if not, what would they have to change to make it into one.
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It is already a very viable gaming platform. Unfortunately the thing that really makes it undesirable for most people is the one thing Intel can't really change and that's the price.

slave_labor said:
It really does look like a workstation and should probably be compared to similar boards for a proper review. It looks to me like a virtualization platform. I don't know much about this area like how well a virtual OS can use the graphics system. We had a place across the street where I live that charged by the hour for people to come in and game, The game servers were all on a server and each player had their own computer. They would then connect to the server and play each other. If you could run a server and a couple instances of XP (or Vista) and relace three or four machines, then at least that would justify the price. Maybe they were thinking it would be good for lan parties.
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You can't really game through virtual machines. You could however run dedicated servers through VMs, and still game on the same box. However multiple instances of games graphics and all isn't going to happen.

slave_labor said:
I saw this program called Mojopac. Again, I never tried it and don't know much about it but they say it can use the full power of a grapic card. Maybe you might consider installing some sort of virtualization and game off of that. You could allocate how many CPUs the game could use to each instance and run them all to see how that performs. The bottleneck might turn out to be the memory that each would need or the graphic power that would need to be divided among them.
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I don't know anything about that program but you don't need any special software to set CPU affinity.

slave_labor said:
Can you allocate a different card slot to each processor?
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No. It does not work that way.

slave_labor said:
Now that it is established to not be a good game platform in the traditional sense, then what CAN be done with it?
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Whatever you want. It really is a high end workstation platform that can also double as a gaming platform. It is designed to serve in both roles. I wouldn't say that it isn't a good gaming platform because it is. However it isn't economical at all. You can do just as well with a single QX9770 processor and 780i SLI motherboard in terms of performance.

slave_labor said:
Who knows what Intel had in mind. Maybe it was just running a huge multi-monitor display and gaming with that.--TomS
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Intel's information was quite clear on the subject of what this platform is for. It is for content creation (workstation use) and gaming.
 
Wow! Thanks for all that response. I am still trying to learn about all of this. I saw that the next version of windows would be a modular, virtual OS and I saw all of this development; the CPUs support virtualization, the operating systems support virtualization,
etc. also, all these virtualization apps now, not just for running windows games on Apple or Linux systems. I started to get an idea that was where everything is heading to now.

I've done alot of searching and reading but still have alot to learn. I do know that games were up until now written mostly for one CPU and that to change that would take actually rewriting the game not just to recompile the source code to optimize for multithreading. Maybe this is changed since dual core cpus. I never thought of four cores as especially optimal gaming platforms so when I saw this heavyweight described as an ultimate game platform; I thought, "What am I missing here?"

--TomS
 
slave_labor said:
Wow! Thanks for all that response. I am still trying to learn about all of this. I saw that the next version of windows would be a modular, virtual OS and I saw all of this development; the CPUs support virtualization, the operating systems support virtualization,
etc. also, all these virtualization apps now, not just for running windows games on Apple or Linux systems. I started to get an idea that was where everything is heading to now.

I've done alot of searching and reading but still have alot to learn. I do know that games were up until now written mostly for one CPU and that to change that would take actually rewriting the game not just to recompile the source code to optimize for multithreading. Maybe this is changed since dual core cpus. I never thought of four cores as especially optimal gaming platforms so when I saw this heavyweight described as an ultimate game platform; I thought, "What am I missing here?"

--TomS
Click to expand...

Actually there are quite a few games that take advantage of dual core and quad core CPUs. Dual core CPUs have been available for some time now so most games are starting to get some bennefit from multi-core configurations. There are even two games I know of that can bennefit from 8 cores. (Lost Planet and Microsoft Flight Simulator.)
 
Dan_D said:
Actually there are quite a few games that take advantage of dual core and quad core CPUs. Dual core CPUs have been available for some time now so most games are starting to get some bennefit from multi-core configurations. There are even two games I know of that can bennefit from 8 cores. (Lost Planet and Microsoft Flight Simulator.)
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Wow, thanks for the info on 8-core game support, Dan. I hadn't known about that before, thinking that games maxed at quad support.
 
Fortunately, I DO have a copy of Microsoft Flight Simulator. It runs well on my system at the lower levels but taxes my system when I get to the top part of the game, especially at the higher resolutions.

If you want to drop that machine off at my place, I will be glad to let you know how it performs on 8 cylinders.

--TomS
 
Nehelam(sp) or whatever you call it processor is going to lessen the need to code software, games, etc for multi cores. The quad core natively splits the processing of a single thread among multiple cores. @ 2.6ghz it pulled an 8sec SPI. 5ghz dual cores are just able to reach that performance. So while this board is interesting, i'd hold out for this processor in a year or so. I am curious to see what sort of real world performance gains we will see? In most apps I would imagine significant, but certain apps that are optimized for multiple cores we may not see much of a performance increase and may in fact see a performance decrease.

Still very interesting technology. Hmm imagine an 8 core chip based on Nehelam? /drool
 
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