id Software's Official DOOM3 Benchmarks

gpitpitan said:
why spend millions upon millions on developing new cores every friggin time, when you can still use your current one now and push it even more. That just goes to show what r300 had in it. And also, im sue that also has to count for something when ATI does release a new architecture whenever that may be, but thats not the point.

Sure its an old core, but is it still keeping up with NV40 (yeah yeah i got it right this time, semantics =P), well except for D3 it seems as of now. Could it be specific optimizations? etc etc etc the list of excuses could go on and on. Both sides discrediting the other, who knows if we will ever truly and honestly pinpoint what went on.

One things for sure tho, the nvidia fanbois are gizzing their pants on this announcement lol.
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Well I kinda agree with you. The graphics industry is a balancing act. There is only so much time and money so ATi had to weigh what to do like any other big decision. So they decided to stick with thier older core. Which isn't a bad decision. I'm just saying that the r300 is showing its age.

My big bitch with ATi right now is what the hell have they been doing for the past 2 years? Sitting on their asses? No new OpenGL driver, no new core, no good linux drivers, no better multiple-monitor support...so I'm left wondering, what the hell have they done in the past 2 years?
 
why spend millions upon millions on developing new cores every friggin time, when you can still use your current one now and push it even more.
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Hey, did you know that [H]ardOCP posted a DOOM3 preview, complete with benchmarks using both the 6800 and X800? I think you'll find the answer to your question there.
 
burningrave101 said:
People dont realize the 6800u isn't even the PE's counterpart. Its the 6800u extreme. ATI announced the PE because of nVidia working on a 6800u extreme.

The vanilla X800XT 500/500 is the 6800u counterpart. Try downclocking the PE to 500/500 and see how well it fairs against the 6800u then.

The 6800u is already faster then the PE at every setting in OpenGL games.

The 6800u is faster then the PE without AA + AF in D3D games.

The 6800u is faster then the PE with AA enabled in D3D games.

The 6800u is tied for performance against the PE with high levels of AF enabled.

Thats 3.5 wins to .5.

nVidia has also given the option to enable full Trilinear filtering with NO optimizations. ATI has not and their running Brilinear mixed with their Trilinear like nVidia did on the NV30's. So who REALLY has the better IQ quality here?
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i have heard what you say is true and i have heard that the 6800UE was announced after seeing the x800xtpe's performance. whichever is actually true doesn't make much of a difference, the x800xtpe and 6800u are competitors because they have the same msrp. even if they weren't intended for eachother they are for everyone else because of price perspective, IMO at least.
 
onetwo said:
Hey, did you know that [H]ardOCP posted a DOOM3 preview, complete with benchmarks using both the 6800 and X800? I think you'll find the answer to your question there.
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The answer is that if you invest enough money in the design suggestions of John Carmack you make money :eek:?
 
SuperRob said:
That's the most ridiculous conclusion I've heard so far. All this means is that the drivers are crippling an otherwise decent card. OpenGL is ATI's problem, always has been. But your facts don't support your conclusion that the chip design is less efficient. In fact, all the EXPERTS have always said that ATI's design is MORE efficient, if anything.
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I don't think he was talking about just DOOM3. The fact that the 6800U matches the XT PE with a 125MHz core speed disadvatage speaks volumes about who outengineered whom.
 
SuperRob said:
That's the most ridiculous conclusion I've heard so far. All this means is that the drivers are crippling an otherwise decent card. OpenGL is ATI's problem, always has been. But your facts don't support your conclusion that the chip design is less efficient. In fact, all the EXPERTS have always said that ATI's design is MORE efficient, if anything.
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Wrong on both counts. It helps if you try to understand instead of trying to disprove.

All other comments on efficiency are related to the fact that the NV40 requires more power because it has more transistors. Which is due to PS3.0. And also the bigger heatsink and 2 power connectors. THIS is what everyone else is talking about, but it is NOT what I am talking about.

I didn't say one word about OpenGL. I'm talking about DX9 performance, ATi's bread and butter. And Nvidia is matching or beating them in DX9 performance with a 120Mhz clock disparity...if it takes more clock cycles for the X800 to do the same amount of work it is less efficient.

I'm making a very specific point here, and I'm not crazy, if you think about it for a second you'll see where I'm coming from.
 
Sheese, been working on some laptops all day, not going to sift through all the post's but... I would like to point out a few things...

Antialiasing and anisotropic filtering are performed very differently from nvidia to ati.

Ati doesnt perform trilinear filtering.

Doom3 should never be refered to as "just one game" Its doom3.... do..oom...tha..ree...ee
 
maxxo said:
i have heard what you say is true and i have heard that the 6800UE was announced after seeing the x800xtpe's performance. whichever is actually true doesn't make much of a difference, the x800xtpe and 6800u are competitors because they have the same msrp. even if they weren't intended for eachother they are for everyone else because of price perspective, IMO at least.
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I must agree. I went looking to see which came first and everything I found suggested that ATi, before officially announcing the XT, decided to up the clock to basically as fast as they could get it to go and call it the XTPE.

Nvidia responded to this with the Ultra Extreme.

So ATi was actually reacting to Nvidia, who released its card first. But since nothing was ever announced, ATi can say that they always planned it to be that way.
 
^eMpTy^ said:
Well I kinda agree with you. The graphics industry is a balancing act. There is only so much time and money so ATi had to weigh what to do like any other big decision. So they decided to stick with thier older core. Which isn't a bad decision. I'm just saying that the r300 is showing its age.

My big bitch with ATi right now is what the hell have they been doing for the past 2 years? Sitting on their asses? No new OpenGL driver, no new core, no good linux drivers, no better multiple-monitor support...so I'm left wondering, what the hell have they done in the past 2 years?
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I agree with you,I think the bigest mistake other then not working on their Open GL all this time knowing that D3 was coming and was going to be huge is the fact that they didn't put out a 16 pipe card at the same price point as the GT even if they are close in most games because more is always better right?I'm still hoping that seeing the hard cold facts will bring them out of their stupor and they'll improve their Open GL performance because I don't think it's a hardware limitation,of course I'm not an expert like some people seem to think they are,but that'sjust myopinion.

Chris
 
^eMpTy^ said:
Well I kinda agree with you. The graphics industry is a balancing act. There is only so much time and money so ATi had to weigh what to do like any other big decision. So they decided to stick with thier older core. Which isn't a bad decision. I'm just saying that the r300 is showing its age.

My big bitch with ATi right now is what the hell have they been doing for the past 2 years? Sitting on their asses? No new OpenGL driver, no new core, no good linux drivers, no better multiple-monitor support...so I'm left wondering, what the hell have they done in the past 2 years?
Click to expand...

Well, they didnt need a new core this time around. So maybe theyve been spending their past two years working on their brand new architecture. Maybe they didnt want to make the same mistake as having to create new cores over again with each new generation when they didnt absolutely have to =P lol.

As for linux and multi monitor support, id venture a guess that to ATI it wasnt a huge priority to make "good" linux drivers or multi monitor support.

Well, as for OpenGL, who knows wtf happened to that. I havent noticed this huge disparity until now, and maybe when i actually play the god damn game i still wont notice this huge thing.

People are gizzing their pants over numbers and bar graphs :rolleyes:
 
maxxo said:
i have heard what you say is true and i have heard that the 6800UE was announced after seeing the x800xtpe's performance. whichever is actually true doesn't make much of a difference, the x800xtpe and 6800u are competitors because they have the same msrp. even if they weren't intended for eachother they are for everyone else because of price perspective, IMO at least.
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http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2113

NVIDIA GeForce 6800: 12 pipes, 325 core, 700 mem
NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT: 16 pipes, 350 core, 1000 mem
NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra: 16 pipes, 400 core, 1100 mem
NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra Extreme: 16 pipes, 460 core, 1200 mem

ATI Radeon X800 Pro: 12 pipes, 475 core, 900 mem
ATI Radeon X800 XT: 16 pipes, 500 core, 1000 mem
ATI Radeon X800 XT Platinum Edition: 16 pipes, 520 core, 1120 mem

Here is the pricing data that we gathered from pricewatch and our own RealTime Pricing Engine (all prices are USD).

NVIDIA GeForce FX 5950: $380
NVIDIA GeForce 6800: $300
NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT: $410
NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra: $540
NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra Extreme: $?

ATI Radeon 9700 Pro: $180
ATI Radeon 9800 XT: $400
ATI Radeon X800 Pro: $420
ATI Radeon X800 XT: $540
ATI Radeon X800 XT Platinum Edition: $?

We don't yet have any reliable pricing information for the 6800 Ultra Extreme or the X800 XT Platinum Edition. With the 6800 Ultra and X800 XT both at $540, we can expect the beefed up versions of these cards to be priced a little more. We'll guess $600 each as the price points for the ultra high end cards. Who knows whether or not this will prove to be the case, but that's the best that we can do right now.

We have seen 6800 GTs on sale for their MSRP of $400 and there are a few links on pricewatch showing $410, but we couldn't touch an X800 Pro for less than $420.
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You wanna know what i think is gonna happen? You know how ATI isn't selling the X800XT PE on their site yet and how they've said they wont have any till like late August or early October? Well what i think is gonna happen is the 6800u extremes and X800XT PE's are gonna slowly start leaking out on the market around then and their going to be marked at the same MSRP while ATI goes ahead and releases a slower X800XT 500/500 as well.

I know this is probably going to be the case for the OEM's because ATI wont be able to supply enough PE's to Dell, HP, Gateway, and so on. They can pump out the slower X800XT's a little faster because the 1.6ns Samsung modules dont have to operate at quite the same frequency.

Maybe it will happen. Maybe it wont. I just dont see how else their going to do it when nVidia has both a 6800u extreme and a 6800u and ATI is only going to market a PE.

I mean seriously, nVidia has come to market with 4 cards to ATI's 2. ATI is going to have a couple more cards to scatter out their prices and match up against nVidia's. Otherwise nVidia is going to sell far more cards.
 
^eMpTy^ said:
gpitpitan said:
Chalk up a point for nvidia for this one. i think their driver team is finally picking up speed and showing what kind of legs the nv45 does have and unlocking its full potential.
Click to expand...
It's the NV40, not 45, but whatever.
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actually i think he was referring to the first part of the review, PCIe 6800u and gt (which are officially of the nv45 core).
 
maxxo said:
i have heard what you say is true and i have heard that the 6800UE was announced after seeing the x800xtpe's performance. whichever is actually true doesn't make much of a difference, the x800xtpe and 6800u are competitors because they have the same msrp. even if they weren't intended for eachother they are for everyone else because of price perspective, IMO at least.
Click to expand...

The early x800xt pe's specification called for a card clocked up to 525Mhz (some say 530Mhz) and this was decided well before the launch of the 6800U. It wasn't until a little before the X800 launch that ATI actually finalized the specification and settled for a clock speed of 520Mhz for the PE. That's why people recieved samples clocked as high as 530Mhz at it's launch. This is pretty much what I (and others) gathered from ATI's comments at launch and rumors that persisted before the 6800u launch (namely from the inquirer!). The only thing burning has going for him is the fact it's called "Plantinum Edition" and not just XT :eek:.
 
gpitpitan said:
Well, they didnt need a new core this time around. So maybe theyve been spending their past two years working on their brand new architecture. Maybe they didnt want to make the same mistake as having to create new cores over again with each new generation when they didnt absolutely have to =P lol.

As for linux and multi monitor support, id venture a guess that to ATI it wasnt a huge priority to make "good" linux drivers or multi monitor support.

Well, as for OpenGL, who knows wtf happened to that. I havent noticed this huge disparity until now, and maybe when i actually play the god damn game i still wont notice this huge thing.
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There is no god damned excuse. Nvidia has good linux drivers. Nvidia has badass OpenGL support. Nvidia has badass multi-monitor support. Nvidia made a new core and got it to market. Anything your competitor does that you don't do should be a priority in my book.

If ATi wants to say everything is unimportant except for DX9 performance, then they should probably actually beat Nvidia in that one area they are focusing on. Not just tie them. And it's a shaky tie at that.

People are gizzing their pants over numbers and bar graphs :rolleyes:
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Welcome to HardOCP, that's what we do here...:)
 
^eMpTy^ said:
There is no god damned excuse. Nvidia has good linux drivers. Nvidia has badass OpenGL support. Nvidia has badass multi-monitor support. Nvidia made a new core and got it to market. Anything your competitor does that you don't do should be a priority in my book.

If ATi wants to say everything is unimportant except for DX9 performance, then they should probably actually beat Nvidia in that one area they are focusing on. Not just tie them. And it's a shaky tie at that.



Welcome to HardOCP, that's what we do here...:)
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I myself would have to agree with you on that...
 
burningrave101 said:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2113

You wanna know what i think is gonna happen? You know how ATI isn't selling the X800XT PE on their site yet and how they've said they wont have any till like late August or early October? Well what i think is gonna happen is the 6800u extremes and X800XT PE's are gonna slowly start leaking out on the market around then and their going to be marked at the same MSRP while ATI goes ahead and releases a slower X800XT 500/500 as well.

I know this is probably going to be the case for the OEM's because ATI wont be able to supply enough PE's to Dell, HP, Gateway, and so on. They can pump out the slower X800XT's a little faster because the 1.6ns Samsung modules dont have to operate at quite the same frequency.

Maybe it will happen. Maybe it wont. I just dont see how else their going to do it when nVidia has both a 6800u extreme and a 6800u and ATI is only going to market a PE.
Click to expand...

what i was talking of was the official msrp's, which are $499 for both the x800xtpe and 6800u, that's why they should be compared with eachother. of course you won't be able to find the 6800ue or x800xtpe now pretty much anywhere for anything near msrp (or any price for that matter with current availability) but that is mainly because of the low stock.
 
burningrave101 said:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2113



You wanna know what i think is gonna happen? You know how ATI isn't selling the X800XT PE on their site yet and how they've said they wont have any till like late August or early October? Well what i think is gonna happen is the 6800u extremes and X800XT PE's are gonna slowly start leaking out on the market around then and their going to be marked at the same MSRP while ATI goes ahead and releases a slower X800XT 500/500 as well.

I know this is probably going to be the case for the OEM's because ATI wont be able to supply enough PE's to Dell, HP, Gateway, and so on. They can pump out the slower X800XT's a little faster because the 1.6ns Samsung modules dont have to operate at quite the same frequency.

Maybe it will happen. Maybe it wont. I just dont see how else their going to do it when nVidia has both a 6800u extreme and a 6800u and ATI is only going to market a PE.
Click to expand...

Hello, the X800 XT he talked about doesn't exist. The prices he quoted were from that of the X800XT PE on pricewatch (or pricegrabber, whatever he uses). Also nVidia isn't marketing anything with respect to the extreme as it's not an official specification governed by them. It's entirely something that's adopted by the AIB partners and since the specification isn't something set in stone, it can change from partner to partner (I've seen two announced extremes that have two very different clock speeds in addition to the anandtech extreme which also has a different clock speed from those announced two). Man, let this ridiculous belief go already.
 
Kyle:

Since Mr. Carmak has mentioned that the sound engine is entirely CPU dependant, I'm currious what the sound settings were used in your benchmarks. This might be implied in with the terms "High Quality", "Medium Qaulity" and such. But as none of us here have the game yet, so we don't know what settings these terms imply. Perhaps your full in depth article will be more complete.

Anyways, I'm currious what the differences are between full 5.1, 2 channel stereo, and no sound at all, on framerates.


You may now resume your ATi vs nVidia flamewar :D
 
gordon151 said:
Hello, the X800 XT he talked about doesn't exist. The prices he quoted were from that of the X800XT PE on pricewatch (or pricegrabber, whatever he uses). Also nVidia isn't marketing anything with respect to the extreme as it's not an official specification governed by them. It's entirely something that's adopted by the AIB partners and since the specification isn't something set in stone, it can change from partner to partner (I've seen two announced extremes that have two very different clock speeds in addition to the anandtech extreme which also has a different clock speed from those announced two). Man, let this ridiculous belief go already.
Click to expand...

i forgot to ask that question in my last post, what normal x800xt's were you finding for $540?
 
This might have been said before [only read first 7 pages, will finish reading this thread soon though] but the benchs weren't entirely fair. They were done at High Quality. For those not fortunate enough to own a 6800 series card, HQ mode means all optomizations [trilinear and ansio] are turned off. This of course is not the case with ATI cards, where the ops cannot be disabled. So basically, the GT with ops off is whooping the XTPE with ops on. Nvidia is smoking good weed tonight.

P.S. I also find it downright desperate and digusting that the hardcore atidiots are calling into question the IQ of the game, even though it's far more likely that Nvidia will be ahead in that as well [again, going back to ops on/ops off].

Edit: Quality mode disables trilinear ops but leaves ansio ops on.
 
The Batman said:
This might have been said before [only read first 7 pages, will finish reading this thread soon though] but the benchs weren't entirely fair. They were done at High Quality. For those not fortunate enough to own a 6800 series card, HQ mode means all optomizations [trilinear and ansio] are turned off. This of course is not the case with ATI cards, where the ops cannot be disabled. So basically, the GT with ops off is whooping the XTPE with ops on. Nvidia is smoking good weed tonight.

P.S. I also find it downright desperate and digusting that the hardcore atidiots are calling into question the IQ of the game, even though it's far more likely that Nvidia will be ahead in that as well [again, going back to ops on/ops off].
Click to expand...

I'll save you the trouble of reading through 13 pages of insanity. [H] is doing a MASSIVE D3 performance evaluation on something like 15 different video cards. No word on when it will show up, but you'll have all the info you need soon enough.
 
Just a question... or observation? But didn't Nvidia sponsor Doom3? They would have had a jump on tweaking drivers for doom3, but they never tweaked or cheated on drivers before so why would they start now. ;) This is also why its in opengl, because they knew ATI didn't focus on opengl... How clever, they deserve a cookie. :) The truth of the matter is, the x800 line isn't dead..... opengl is... how many games these days do opengl.... mostly nvidia sponsored games, hhhmmm! in their own world and benchmarks "they rock" But when it comes down to, all the games across the board in todays modern 3d engine "D3D" Nvidia drops the ball. So I'm impressed, I've built dozens of machines and have used the card that best fits the persons budget regardless of who made them, I've used just as many ATI as Nvidia and both draw good graphics but, when Nvidia can "fund" a project so it's written in their "preferred engine" and then tweak drivers for them, and then offer benchmarks based on their own numbers... and still come out ahead.... they are gods.... of something yesteryear. Bravo.... The lack of multiplayer blows and to be honest with all of you, The ati peeps should protest games nvidia does this with... cough, cough.. farcry also, And say "if thats who they are going to write the game for...poohy on you!" And everybody with a ATI shouldn't buy them so we can all see how many games sell when Nvidia buys their way into your pc, By the way fanboys "weight broke the wagon" :D

I used to love nvidia, but there business pratices are a disgrace... And theres nothing I want to own from a company like them!
 
Relo@d said:
Just a question... or observation? But didn't Nvidia sponsor Doom3? They would have had a jump on tweaking drivers for doom3, but they never tweaked or cheated on drivers before so why would they start now. ;) This is also why its in opengl, because they knew ATI didn't focus on opengl... How clever, they deserve a cookie. :) The truth of the matter is, the x800 line isn't dead..... opengl is... how many games these days do opengl.... mostly nvidia sponsored games, hhhmmm! in their own world and benchmarks "they rock" But when it comes down to, all the games across the board in todays modern 3d engine "D3D" Nvidia drops the ball. So I'm impressed, I've built dozens of machines and have used the card that best fits the persons budget regardless of who made them, I've used just as many ATI as Nvidia and both draw good graphics but, when Nvidia can "fund" a project so it's written in their "preferred engine" and then tweak drivers for them, and then offer benchmarks based on their own numbers... and still come out ahead.... they are gods.... of something yesteryear. Bravo.... The lack of multiplayer blows and to be honest with all of you, The ati peeps should protest games nvidia does this with... cough, cough.. farcry also, And say "if thats who they are going to write the game for...poohy on you!" And everybody with a ATI shouldn't buy them so we can all see how many games sell when Nvidia buys their way into your pc, By the way fanboys "weight broke the wagon" :D

I used to love nvidia, but there business pratices are a disgrace... And theres nothing I want to own from a company like them!
Click to expand...
Welcome to every company that ever has been around! :D
 
I can't believe every time i come to a forum i get to read the same old thing.Nvidia this...ATI that.... Ya ,whatever.Go out and buy what you want.I did,. and now when Doom III comes out I'll play it with what i have.If you guys know so much get a job at Nvidia or ATI and fix all the problems in video card land.And for the record...Nvidia has the best card out now from a price point anyway (6800 GT) That said , all you Nvidia fanboys maybe should remeber just who kicked Nvidia's ass for the last 2 years and it could happen again in 6 months...maybe ATI didn't sit on it's hands for the last 2 years.
Cheers all....find some thing usefull to talk about....like microsoft suffering from software piracy...they could only pay out about $100,000,000,000 in dividends...do you remember what you payed for your OS? Now thats a topic worth getting pissed over
 
Wow very cool that the GT did what it did.

Everyone thinking that this is just one game isnt looking at the games that will spawn from it. Not to mention serious sam2 will be opengl as well. Now if Nvidia drivers improve like they usually do we could see the difference get even bigger.

This thread is growing at a stupid pace :) .
 
Would somebody mind explaining to me by what sense of fuked up logic one comes to the conclusion that morality has a place in performance to price ratios?

Ah well, you guys can take the higher roads, we'll take the higher frames.
 
Relo@d said:
Just a question... or observation? But didn't Nvidia sponsor Doom3? They would have had a jump on tweaking drivers for doom3, but they never tweaked or cheated on drivers before so why would they start now. ;) This is also why its in opengl, because they knew ATI didn't focus on opengl... How clever, they deserve a cookie. :) The truth of the matter is, the x800 line isn't dead..... opengl is... how many games these days do opengl.... mostly nvidia sponsored games, hhhmmm! in their own world and benchmarks "they rock" But when it comes down to, all the games across the board in todays modern 3d engine "D3D" Nvidia drops the ball. So I'm impressed, I've built dozens of machines and have used the card that best fits the persons budget regardless of who made them, I've used just as many ATI as Nvidia and both draw good graphics but, when Nvidia can "fund" a project so it's written in their "preferred engine" and then tweak drivers for them, and then offer benchmarks based on their own numbers... and still come out ahead.... they are gods.... of something yesteryear. Bravo.... The lack of multiplayer blows and to be honest with all of you, The ati peeps should protest games nvidia does this with... cough, cough.. farcry also, And say "if thats who they are going to write the game for...poohy on you!" And everybody with a ATI shouldn't buy them so we can all see how many games sell when Nvidia buys their way into your pc, By the way fanboys "weight broke the wagon" :D

I used to love nvidia, but there business pratices are a disgrace... And theres nothing I want to own from a company like them!
Click to expand...

This is so unbelievably fucked up on so many levels.

1. Doom isn't sponsored by Nvidia.
2. OpenGL isn't dead...just trust me on this one, it's alive and well and powering some of the most important graphics applications on the planet. It's harder to use, that's why most people don't use it for games anymore. Except geniuses like John Carmack.
3. This wasn't benchmarked in Nvidia's world, it was done in id's. And they are about as hardware agnostic as it comes.
4. Nvidia has never funded a graphics engine. The most they do is offer help and $$ to implement the latest features like PS3. And ATi does the same, it's a common practice.
5. There is no "lack of multiplayer" multiplayer is there, but this isn't Unreal Tournament, it's supposed to be dark and scary and sneaky so it's a little different. Quake 4 will be based on the D3 engine and fill the multiplayer gap.
6. Crytek is also adding 3Dc support to Farcry, which is an ATi technology.

You need to completely revise a lot of your opinions here, cuz you are very clearly fucked up.
 
Relo@d said:
Just a question... or observation? But didn't Nvidia sponsor Doom3? They would have had a jump on tweaking drivers for doom3, but they never tweaked or cheated on drivers before so why would they start now. ;) This is also why its in opengl, because they knew ATI didn't focus on opengl... How clever, they deserve a cookie. :) The truth of the matter is, the x800 line isn't dead..... opengl is... how many games these days do opengl.... mostly nvidia sponsored games, hhhmmm! in their own world and benchmarks "they rock" But when it comes down to, all the games across the board in todays modern 3d engine "D3D" Nvidia drops the ball. So I'm impressed, I've built dozens of machines and have used the card that best fits the persons budget regardless of who made them, I've used just as many ATI as Nvidia and both draw good graphics but, when Nvidia can "fund" a project so it's written in their "preferred engine" and then tweak drivers for them, and then offer benchmarks based on their own numbers... and still come out ahead.... they are gods.... of something yesteryear. Bravo.... The lack of multiplayer blows and to be honest with all of you, The ati peeps should protest games nvidia does this with... cough, cough.. farcry also, And say "if thats who they are going to write the game for...poohy on you!" And everybody with a ATI shouldn't buy them so we can all see how many games sell when Nvidia buys their way into your pc, By the way fanboys "weight broke the wagon" :D

I used to love nvidia, but there business pratices are a disgrace... And theres nothing I want to own from a company like them!
Click to expand...

You obviously have no earthly idea what your talking about and shouldnt be able to touch a computer let alone use one. How about you figure out what opengl is before you play expert. Believe it or not, there are other operating system's other than windows.
 
gordon151 said:
Hello, the X800 XT he talked about doesn't exist. The prices he quoted were from that of the X800XT PE on pricewatch (or pricegrabber, whatever he uses). Also nVidia isn't marketing anything with respect to the extreme as it's not an official specification governed by them. It's entirely something that's adopted by the AIB partners and since the specification isn't something set in stone, it can change from partner to partner (I've seen two announced extremes that have two very different clock speeds in addition to the anandtech extreme which also has a different clock speed from those announced two). Man, let this ridiculous belief go already.
Click to expand...

If the card DOESN'T exist and it was never announced then then why has the X800XT came up in several different spec sheets on different sites for ATI's lineup and how would Anandtech know its suppost to be clocked at 500/500???

And its been said several times here on HardOCP that ATI is going to ship the X800XT to OEM's such as Dell.

The 6800 Ultra's have ALSO been shipping at all different clock speeds. They dont all ship at 400Mhz. They've shipped at 400/425/435/450. The current ones were all reference design as well and were made at the same facility and distributed to 3rd party vendors.
 
burningrave101 said:
If the card DOESN'T exist and it was never announced then then why has the X800XT came up in several different spec sheets on different sites for ATI's lineup and how would Anandtech know its suppost to be clocked at 500/500???

And its been said several times here on HardOCP that ATI is going to ship the X800XT to OEM's such as Dell.

The 6800 Ultra's have ALSO been shipping at all different clock speeds. They dont all ship at 400Mhz. They've shipped at 400/425/435/450. The current ones were all reference design as well and were made at the same facility and distributed to 3rd party vendors.
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I don't think any Ultra ships over 425. The evga does 450 but that's an ultra extreme. What runs at 435???
 
Im hoping that I can run it reasonable well with the rig in my system at 1280x1024 so it will look good on my 2001FP.

On another note, Given all the speculation on how much better nvidias gl drivers were, ati is still hanging in there very, very well.
 
darksynth said:
Im hoping that I can run it reasonable well with the rig in my system at 1280x1024 so it will look good on my 2001FP.

On another note, Given all the speculation on how much better nvidias gl drivers were, ati is still hanging in there very, very well.
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I run Halo at 1024x768 on my 2001FP and it looks great...i wouldn't worry too much about it...
 
^eMpTy^ said:
I don't think any Ultra ships over 425. The evga does 450 but that's an ultra extreme. What runs at 435???
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I would have to do some digging in my reviews to find out but those are the speeds they've been shipping at.

The original XFX 6800 Ultra was shipping at 450Mhz. Alot of the other Ultra's have shipped at 425Mhz and 435Mhz.

The XFX review sample shipped at 450/1100.
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http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review.php?dXJsX3Jldmlld19JRD03ODkmdXJsX3BhZ2U9NA==
 
ZenOps said:
I still think ATi's has a superior hardware design, at least at the chip-level. As bad as the OpenGL drivers might be.

The cooling solution and voltages they are using in the X800 seem to be very conservative, almost underclocked even compared to the 9800pro. All ATi would probably have to do to increase the speed another 100 mhz would be to add a two slot cooler with some ramsinks and raise the voltage .1 maybe. So in otherwords, be closer to the power consumption of the 6800Ultra with the same cooling. ATi's chip has been proven to go to >700mhz on liquidcooling.

That should cover the OpenGL gap, and give it an even more commanding lead in D3D against the 6800ultra. And given enough time, ATi might eventually get around to a good performing OpenGL driver set too, which could mean a commanding lead there too.

But since both ATi and Nvidia seem to be unable to meet demand as is now, its unlikely they will need to push any of their high-end products. Honestly, it really feels like ATi and Nvidia CEO's got together and said, lets make a duopoly and make cards that perform almost exactly the same.
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Superior hardware design with a 350MHz 16 pipe GT smoking a 520MHz 16 pipe X800? OK....
 
burningrave101 said:
I would have to do some digging in my reviews to find out but those are the speeds they've been shipping at.

The original XFX 6800 Ultra was shipping at 450Mhz. Alot of the other Ultra's have shipped at 425Mhz and 435Mhz.
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From Trusted Reviews:
To verify the speed of the XFX 6800 Ultra I contacted XFX and the reply was that all cards will be clocked at a minimum of 425MHz, but the 450MHz core speed can’t be guaranteed.
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So that explains the 450...I still don't remember which one was 435...
 
Wow!!! After 475 posts the thread has finally died down. I was actually able to make a post without finding a half a dozen new posts after i finished. :cool:
 
WuTangClam said:
2 months ago everyone was blown away by the performance increase of the x800 series over previous generations. Now people are saying that ati should pull out of the graphics card market entirely.

I fully agree that the 6800 series is the best card choice for doom 3, bar none. Having said that, I don't see why ati won't be able to improve their openGL drivers. Ati has come a long way since the first radeons came out in terms of driver advances. I predict that in a few months we will see the gap between the x800 series and 6800 series lessening as ati opengl driver performance is improved.
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NVIDIA's driver won't improve?
 
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