HP SAS Expander Owner's Thread

Are you using LSI's Software for configuration?

This is how it looks like in 3DM2:




You go for "Monitor -> Enclosure Support" and get the Enclosure Summary. In this case, my SAS expander is ID 0 since I don't have any other "enclosures" connected to my SAS controller. The "0" is a link and if you follow that link you will get the Enclosure Details as in the second picture. Under "Revision" it tells you the FW of the expander, in this case it is 2.08.

To update the FW on the expander you need to have it connected to a supported HP SmartArray controller.
This is described in the first post of the thread:
Q: How do I update the firmware on the HP SAS Expander?
A: A flash update requires a newer HP branded RAID card- P212, P410, P411, or P712. If you have a green PCB card with lower than firmware v1.52, you can post in this thread and someone may be able to flash it for you.
Click to expand...
 
Has anyone managed to get SAS-2 zoning going on the HP SAS Expander card? The product claims that it can do that but the SMP REPORT GENERAL function response includes "zoning supported: 0" which contradicts that claim. Is there a link strapping on the card, a vendor specific SMP function or some other magic that will permit zoning to be used? [My card came with 2.06 firmware and I see 2.08 is the most recent but the change log between the two versions does not say anything about zoning.]
 
While the PMC 8005 Sierra chip that the HP SAS expander is based upon supports zoning, I have not seen any implementations where you can choose group or end device settings with this card and any other general SAS controller. Zoning is usually implemented in a vendor-specific manner, so I would not expect an HP SAS Expander with a non-HP controller to have this option. An example where it is supported and an option is in something like the HP MDS600 Storage System. I honestly don't expect you will find it on basic controllers, and quite honestly it is not something the general user here would find necessary.
 
Judging by its price the Intel RES2SV240 is a more basic expander product and it does SAS-2 phy based zoning. Nothing vendor specific about it since it is fully defined in SAS-2. At the start of this thread Oddity wrote: "Overview: The HP SAS Expander is based on the next-gen PMC Sierra PM8005 SAS-2 chip which features 36 x 6Gbps ports and 6G/3G multiplexing, SAS 2.0 zoning, self-configuration, table-to-table routing, and an integrated MIPS processor for SES and enclosure management support. Full specs here: http://www.pmc-sierra.com/products/details/pm8005/". When I do SMP queries on this product it says that it doesn't do hardware multiplexing, doesn't do zoning, does table-to-table routing on 4 out of 36 ports (RES2SV240 scores 24 out of 24) and there are no specs at that url (NDA, speak to a salesman ...). "Honestly" was not the word I had in mind.
 
dougg123 said:
Judging by its price the Intel RES2SV240 is a more basic expander product and it does SAS-2 phy based zoning. Nothing vendor specific about it since it is fully defined in SAS-2. At the start of this thread Oddity wrote: "Overview: The HP SAS Expander is based on the next-gen PMC Sierra PM8005 SAS-2 chip which features 36 x 6Gbps ports and 6G/3G multiplexing, SAS 2.0 zoning, self-configuration, table-to-table routing, and an integrated MIPS processor for SES and enclosure management support. Full specs here: http://www.pmc-sierra.com/products/details/pm8005/". When I do SMP queries on this product it says that it doesn't do hardware multiplexing, doesn't do zoning, does table-to-table routing on 4 out of 36 ports (RES2SV240 scores 24 out of 24) and there are no specs at that url (NDA, speak to a salesman ...). "Honestly" was not the word I had in mind.
Click to expand...

Just because the chip a board is based upon can support a particular function does not mean that any particular board or design actually implements that function. Zoning (Both zone groups and end device specs) are a function on the controller. Some HP Controllers and expanders (for example in their enterprise equipment) support zoning. If your controller also supports it, this expander "should" based on the chipset support it, but I have never personally implemented it with this particular expander nor have I ever hear this particular expander utilizing it.
 
From earlier posts, people have gotten multiple expanders working by daisy chain. I tried and something isn't right.

I need 2 of the HP SAS daisy chained. From my areca 16xx card, one of the internal ports is connected to the last HP port (Port 9). From that card, the external connector is connected to my 2nd HP card external card. Individually, both cards work but when attached in a chain it just hangs during "waiting for raid FW" during boot up.

Does the HP require the internal, "to the card" connection to be on a specific port? I've tried port 8 and port 9 on the HP and it won't work. Is there some other conflict that needs to be resolved by having 2 HP SAS on the same chain?

I originally had each of the 2 areca ports go to each of the 2 cards. I've added another card (chebro) which is using one of the 2 ports while the 2 HP cards will use the other on my areca. This is for my home use and even if there may be some bottlenecks, it really won't be noticeable for my general home use.
 
Zerosum said:
From earlier posts, people have gotten multiple expanders working by daisy chain. I tried and something isn't right.

I need 2 of the HP SAS daisy chained. From my areca 16xx card, one of the internal ports is connected to the last HP port (Port 9). From that card, the external connector is connected to my 2nd HP card external card. Individually, both cards work but when attached in a chain it just hangs during "waiting for raid FW" during boot up.

Does the HP require the internal, "to the card" connection to be on a specific port? I've tried port 8 and port 9 on the HP and it won't work. Is there some other conflict that needs to be resolved by having 2 HP SAS on the same chain?

I originally had each of the 2 areca ports go to each of the 2 cards. I've added another card (chebro) which is using one of the 2 ports while the 2 HP cards will use the other on my areca. This is for my home use and even if there may be some bottlenecks, it really won't be noticeable for my general home use.
Click to expand...

I have tried cascading the HP SAS expanders in the past and never had solid results, in fact I never got better than flakey activity... from drives dropping to entire raidsets being corrupted. I eventually just ran single-linked connections from the 1880 to 2 seperate expanders via slot-based F-F SAS passthroughs. I believe odditory has tried this in the past but I don't know if he had any better results, but you can ask him.
 
Re: Daisy Chaining.

That's unfortunate. I really rather chain the 2 HP for my setup. I'm going to have to spend some time and try different combinations of internal/external ports to see if I can get better luck. My current setup has a 1680i. I have a spare 1880i as well. Maybe I should put that in. I didn't want to deal with setting up another card tho. The card is VT-d on a esxi box running open solaris/indiana and zfs. Almost 100TB has been working perfectly for close 2 years. Has anyone gotten better results with a 1880i?

Probably not the place to ask, but anyone know if the 1680 esxi/oi drivers work for 1880i? I would guess not tho. :( I wanted the littlest amount of fuse if I'm forced to 'upgrade'.
 
Zerosum said:
Re: Daisy Chaining.

That's unfortunate. I really rather chain the 2 HP for my setup. I'm going to have to spend some time and try different combinations of internal/external ports to see if I can get better luck. My current setup has a 1680i. I have a spare 1880i as well. Maybe I should put that in. I didn't want to deal with setting up another card tho. The card is VT-d on a esxi box running open solaris/indiana and zfs. Almost 100TB has been working perfectly for close 2 years. Has anyone gotten better results with a 1880i?

Probably not the place to ask, but anyone know if the 1680 esxi/oi drivers work for 1880i? I would guess not tho. :( I wanted the littlest amount of fuse if I'm forced to 'upgrade'.
Click to expand...

I would use the 1880 board, it is faster than the 1680 ( chart at http://arecaraid.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14 ). As for esxi drivers, according to areca, 1.20.00.15.vmk5 is for "RAID controllers ARC11xx/ARC12xx/ARC16xx/ARC18xx"
 
Has anyone tried a PCI to PCI-e adapter like this to power this board? I'm gonna give it a shot; I can still use it if it doesn't work for the SAS expander, and if it does work, all the better :)

I have a motherboard with five pci-express slots and one standard pci, and I'm going to be using up all six expansion slots:
  • USB 3 adapter
  • Supermicro SAS2008 controller
  • Intel wireless card
  • HP SAS expander
  • Ceton TV card
  • Intel dual-port NIC
I can get away with moving, say, the Ceton card, into the PCI adapter if the HP card doesn't work, but it'd be nice if it Just Works.
 
After a fresh install of windows 7 my areca arc-1300 (which was working perfectly with the extender before) causes windows to hang on the "windows is starting" screen whenever the extender is attached. Could it be an issue with the driver (6.0.0.4) anyone else experience this?
 
unhappy_mage said:
Has anyone tried a PCI to PCI-e adapter like this to power this board? I'm gonna give it a shot; I can still use it if it doesn't work for the SAS expander, and if it does work, all the better :)

I have a motherboard with five pci-express slots and one standard pci, and I'm going to be using up all six expansion slots:
  • USB 3 adapter
  • Supermicro SAS2008 controller
  • Intel wireless card
  • HP SAS expander
  • Ceton TV card
  • Intel dual-port NIC
I can get away with moving, say, the Ceton card, into the PCI adapter if the HP card doesn't work, but it'd be nice if it Just Works.
Click to expand...

why do that?
ppl generally buy an expander to connect truck-loads of HDDs.. PCI bandwidth is a paltry 133MB/s; if you do have a lot of HDDs, that would be a bottleneck. On the other hand, a TV card needs squat all bandwidth - a PCI slot is perfect for it.

:)
 
Hu? The PCI-slot would just be used to supply power to the expander card, not to transfer any data.
All the data will run via the SAS-uplinks, controller-card and the PCIe. :)
 
JensS said:
Hu? The PCI-slot would just be used to supply power to the expander card, not to transfer any data.
All the data will run via the SAS-uplinks, controller-card and the PCIe. :)
Click to expand...

*sigh* ... ah yes... me posting before thinking... what can I say?.... I'll crawl back under my rock now :rolleyes: :p :D
 
unhappy_mage said:
Has anyone tried a PCI to PCI-e adapter like this to power this board? I'm gonna give it a shot; I can still use it if it doesn't work for the SAS expander, and if it does work, all the better :)
Click to expand...

The PCI adapter idea doesn't seem to work; it's too physically unstable, the location of the SFF-8088 connector on the back of the expander prevents it from sitting level in the PCI slot, and the machine I tried on refuses to boot even with the card properly seated. Oh well, such is life.

I just realized the speed problems I've been having might be related to having old (1.00!) firmware. Does anyone near Baltimore have access to a p212, p410, or p411 card that I could use to flash 2.08 onto my firmware? I'd be willing to pay you for your time, provided it's cheaper than buying my own HBA ;)
 
mcb84 said:
After a fresh install of windows 7 my areca arc-1300 (which was working perfectly with the extender before) causes windows to hang on the "windows is starting" screen whenever the extender is attached. Could it be an issue with the driver (6.0.0.4) anyone else experience this?
Click to expand...

This usually is an interrupt contention issue or an rom option memory issue. Try turning anything off on the board temporarily you aren't using (parallel/serial ports, extra lan ports, extra sata ports etc) and try rebooting again.
 
I am using a Areca 1680 with hitachi 7k2000 drives 8 in raid 5 looking to pick up and expander soon and expand the capacity, will i be ok using 7k3000 drives? I know and been told that it should work but would like to confirm if anyone has run into any isuess using the Areca cards and HP expander with mixed model drives...I believe the 7k3000s are faster by a tad. I been runnin rock solid for over a year just tryin to avoid any issues when i go to expand.
 
figured out that I should be Ok with the mixed two drive. confirmed by someone with a pretty identical setup.

Now as for cable.

i will be connecting using SFF-8088 is there a difference ? should i be looking for standard SFF-8088 or will mini SFF-8088 also work? i

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10254&cs_id=1025407&p_id=8184&seq=1&format=2

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816116105

big difference in price between the two. or is there a recommended brand and cable that everyone is using .
 
ALpHaMoNk said:
figured out that I should be Ok with the mixed two drive. confirmed by someone with a pretty identical setup.

Now as for cable.

i will be connecting using SFF-8088 is there a difference ? should i be looking for standard SFF-8088 or will mini SFF-8088 also work? i

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10254&cs_id=1025407&p_id=8184&seq=1&format=2

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816116105

big difference in price between the two. or is there a recommended brand and cable that everyone is using .
Click to expand...

They are the identical type cable. SFF-8088 is mini-SAS. You can read more about it at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_attached_SCSI
 
There is no such thing as standard SFF-8088 or mini SFF-8088. Both SFF-8087 and -8088 are so called Mini-SAS connectors. 8087 is internal, 8088 is external and the later are usually (much) more expensive. And the assignment of the SFF-xxxx numbers is unique, none of them have a second meaning.

Technically there shouldn't be a difference between the two you found.
 
thanks for the clarifications, they are one in the same.

So i am safe to go with the ones from Monoprice as they are technically the same as the ones fount on newegg with a name brand.

I will place my order for the SFF-8088 and for some SFF-8087 to sata from my 4020 Norco case.

thanks again.
 
ALpHaMoNk said:
figured out that I should be Ok with the mixed two drive. confirmed by someone with a pretty identical setup.

Now as for cable.

i will be connecting using SFF-8088 is there a difference ? should i be looking for standard SFF-8088 or will mini SFF-8088 also work? i

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10254&cs_id=1025407&p_id=8184&seq=1&format=2

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816116105

big difference in price between the two. or is there a recommended brand and cable that everyone is using .
Click to expand...

$18 + free shipping on ebay. I've bought a few of these
http://www.ebay.com/itm/molex-Supermicro-Cable-CBL-0166L-new-/160697118601?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item256a4b6f89#ht_500wt_1180
 
As an eBay Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
JensS said:
Are you using LSI's Software for configuration?

This is how it looks like in 3DM2:

http://www.abload.de/img/encsupork0.png

You go for "Monitor -> Enclosure Support" and get the Enclosure Summary. In this case, my SAS expander is ID 0 since I don't have any other "enclosures" connected to my SAS controller. The "0" is a link and if you follow that link you will get the Enclosure Details as in the second picture. Under "Revision" it tells you the FW of the expander, in this case it is 2.08.

To update the FW on the expander you need to have it connected to a supported HP SmartArray controller.
This is described in the first post of the thread:
Click to expand...

I have a question, in your image it shows the HP as being a 24 slot enclosure. Obviously it is able to have connected 32 drives as per the first post of this topic. Does the LSI card you have still work with the expander with 32 drives even though it believes it only has 24 "slots"?

The reason I ask is I have an LSI 9260 card with the Expander (I'm connecting to the Expander using the external SFF-8088 port) and it also reports it to be a 24 slot enclosure like your LSI card is but I don't have any drives hooked up to it yet (let alone 32) to test it, I'm wondering if maybe you have or if your 3DM screen lists 32 ports. My server is currently in pieces and I only used the LSI software not the 3DM WebUI and it didn't list any ports beyond the 24 slot detection.

On another topic:
I got real lucky with my ebay purchase. I got my SAS Expander for £130 including import taxes from USA and it came with 2.08 Firmware :D
 
Actually a good question! And one I never thought about!
I wouldn't count too much on the informationen given on this page about the expander though because obviously it isn't an enclosure.
I have connected the 9750-4i to a SFF-8087 port so there are seven ports left for a total of 28 drives. I am not using the external SFF-8088 port and therefore 28 drives is my maximum in this configuration.
In theory I could actually test if it detects more than 24 drives but I only have 16 connected. And while I do have enough drives here to actually do it there isn't any free space in my case so this would really be difficult at the moment.
And that obviously means I unfortunately can't give you an answer right now!
 
I see, Thank you Jens. May I ask in your 3DM2 screenshot it listed the ports the expander had, does it list more than 24 there?

Thanks :)
 
Vicey How are you able to determine the firmware? I located one for a pretty decent price but not sure of the firmware, current owner is not sure and didnt run it in a windows machine.

also about drive max. I too plan on connecting using the 8088, I am at my max of 8 drives on my Areca Raid controller. so do I still have the 8 from the controller and the 32 from the HP expander? I am nowhere near ownership of that many drives but figured it would be good to know my limitations.
 
looks like the v. is only 1.00 I would have no way of flashing this up to needed firmware.

%24%28KGrHqNHJBUE8e7z%2CCI%2BBPOcoUEcN%21%7E%7E60_12.jpg
 
ALpHaMoNk said:
Vicey How are you able to determine the firmware? I located one for a pretty decent price but not sure of the firmware, current owner is not sure and didnt run it in a windows machine.

also about drive max. I too plan on connecting using the 8088, I am at my max of 8 drives on my Areca Raid controller. so do I still have the 8 from the controller and the 32 from the HP expander? I am nowhere near ownership of that many drives but figured it would be good to know my limitations.
Click to expand...

Before I ordered it I had no idea what firmware the expander would come with. All I knew was that it was a green PCB version and if I needed to flash the firmware I'd be buying some kind of HP card to do it with.

Basically I took a gamble. Once my card arrived I hooked it up to my LSI 9260 using an 8087 to 8088 cable (also from ebay) and the LSI software reported the card as revision 2.08 which I believe to be its firmware. Basically I got lucky.

From what I can see on HP's website the firmware v2.08 was released in early 2011. Over a year ago. So if your supplier has stock that is from HP under a year I'd imagine it to have at-least the 2.08 firmware. But really there is no way to know, it's just an informed bet based on when the firmware was released. I'd think it would be unlikely for HP to manufacturer cards in the last 12 months that didn't use the 2.08 or the 2.06 firmware at a minimum but who knows?

I was going to post the listing where I got mine from as he had about 30 units to sell, 10 had already been sold before I purchased (it was a buy it now / or best offer listing, not an auction) but he appears to no longer have any in stock. This is the user I bought mine from: http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/btcsales0 you never know he might list some again in the future and if they are anything like the one I got they will be up to date with the latest firmware.
 
ALpHaMoNk said:
also about drive max. I too plan on connecting using the 8088, I am at my max of 8 drives on my Areca Raid controller. so do I still have the 8 from the controller and the 32 from the HP expander? I am nowhere near ownership of that many drives but figured it would be good to know my limitations.
Click to expand...
You need to connect at least one cable between the expander and the raid controller. That cable takes up 4 lanes (one wide port) on each end. Your raid controller has 8 lanes, the expander has 36, so (8+36-8) = 36 drives total you could deal with.

ALpHaMoNk said:
looks like the v. is only 1.00 I would have no way of flashing this up to needed firmware.

%24%28KGrHqNHJBUE8e7z%2CCI%2BBPOcoUEcN%21%7E%7E60_12.jpg
Click to expand...
I'm in the same boat. Considering buying a P411 or P410 from Ebay to do the flash, and then sell it back to the Internet at large. Wanna buy a slightly more used P-series card that can do firmware updates? Slightly cheaper than ebay!
 
Vicey said:
Before I ordered it I had no idea what firmware the expander would come with. All I knew was that it was a green PCB version and if I needed to flash the firmware I'd be buying some kind of HP card to do it with.

Basically I took a gamble. Once my card arrived I hooked it up to my LSI 9260 using an 8087 to 8088 cable (also from ebay) and the LSI software reported the card as revision 2.08 which I believe to be its firmware. Basically I got lucky.

From what I can see on HP's website the firmware v2.08 was released in early 2011. Over a year ago. So if your supplier has stock that is from HP under a year I'd imagine it to have at-least the 2.08 firmware. But really there is no way to know, it's just an informed bet based on when the firmware was released. I'd think it would be unlikely for HP to manufacturer cards in the last 12 months that didn't use the 2.08 or the 2.06 firmware at a minimum but who knows?

I was going to post the listing where I got mine from as he had about 30 units to sell, 10 had already been sold before I purchased (it was a buy it now / or best offer listing, not an auction) but he appears to no longer have any in stock. This is the user I bought mine from: http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/btcsales0 you never know he might list some again in the future and if they are anything like the one I got they will be up to date with the latest firmware.
Click to expand...

Thanks Vicey for the info

unhappy_mage said:
You need to connect at least one cable between the expander and the raid controller. That cable takes up 4 lanes (one wide port) on each end. Your raid controller has 8 lanes, the expander has 36, so (8+36-8) = 36 drives total you could deal with.


I'm in the same boat. Considering buying a P411 or P410 from Ebay to do the flash, and then sell it back to the Internet at large. Wanna buy a slightly more used P-series card that can do firmware updates? Slightly cheaper than ebay!
Click to expand...

Ok good to know., I didn't know that using the 8088 ports would still take away from the usable lanes. (so that means that port 1 and port 8 are pretty much the same? just one is external but still uses 4 lanes?)

so this means i will most likely have to move 4 drives from my Areca card over to the Expander?

i would rather not have to buy anymore components just to offload them again later on. there is a fellow on the forums that sells the cards with the firmware already up to date. a little more than i wanted but i rather pay the extra than have to worrry about flashing it on my own.
 
ALpHaMoNk said:
Thanks Vicey for the info



Ok good to know., I didn't know that using the 8088 ports would still take away from the usable lanes. (so that means that port 1 and port 8 are pretty much the same? just one is external but still uses 4 lanes?)

so this means i will most likely have to move 4 drives from my Areca card over to the Expander?
Click to expand...

The expander has 36 ports total which are accessible via its 8x 8087 and 1x 8088 ports

But you can only use 32 of its ports for hard drives. 4 of its ports will always need to be used for connecting to your disk controller (RAID or HBA card).

You can for example use one of the 8087 ports on the expander for connecting to your disk controller but then to maximise the expander (using all the available 32 ports) you would need to use the external 8088 port with an adapter for 4 hard disks.

In my own build I decided to use the external port to connect to my RAID card because it worked out cheaper to get a 8087 to 8088 cable than it did to get a 8088 to 4xSATA cable.
 
Vicey said:
The expander has 36 ports total which are accessible via its 8x 8087 and 1x 8088 ports

But you can only use 32 of its ports for hard drives. 4 of its ports will always need to be used for connecting to your disk controller (RAID or HBA card).

You can for example use one of the 8087 ports on the expander for connecting to your disk controller but then to maximise the expander (using all the available 32 ports) you would need to use the external 8088 port with an adapter for 4 hard disks.

In my own build I decided to use the external port to connect to my RAID card because it worked out cheaper to get a 8087 to 8088 cable than it did to get a 8088 to 4xSATA cable.
Click to expand...

understood... but couldn't you have used a 8088 to 8088 as i plan to do?
 
ALpHaMoNk said:
understood... but couldn't you have used a 8088 to 8088 as i plan to do?
Click to expand...

No because my RAID card doesn't have an 8088 port. Only 8087.

I could have used an 8088 to 8087 expansion bracket adapter but those are like £20 on the low end then I'd need to buy an 8087 to 8087 cable that's about £10 then I'd need an 8088 to 8088 cable and that's about £20-£30. Instead I got a 8087 to 8088 cable for £16 including shipping and my server case has a nice large rubber grommet for the cable to go through.
 
Vicey said:
No because my RAID card doesn't have an 8088 port. Only 8087.

I could have used an 8088 to 8087 expansion bracket adapter but those are like £20 on the low end then I'd need to buy an 8087 to 8087 cable that's about £10 then I'd need an 8088 to 8088 cable and that's about £20-£30. Instead I got a 8087 to 8088 cable for £16 including shipping and my server case has a nice large rubber grommet for the cable to go through.
Click to expand...
good point I didn't realize that you didn't have an external port on your raid card.
 
Vicey said:
I have a question, in your image it shows the HP as being a 24 slot enclosure. Obviously it is able to have connected 32 drives as per the first post of this topic. Does the LSI card you have still work with the expander with 32 drives even though it believes it only has 24 "slots"?
Click to expand...

It's been a while but if I recall I had to disable SES2 in order to move past the 24 drive limitation to reach 32 for the screenshot in the OP -- on an Areca card that is. So the question would be whether LSI supports disabling SES2 or not. And whether that's even a good idea is a separate discussion and dependent on type of chassis in use, usage scenario, etc.

Running 32 or more drives will *usually* require a second chassis unless you're spending for a 50-bay chenbro or high density Supermicro, and to me it's cleaner running a separate expander for the second chassis, for many reasons. My standardized config for my servers is a 24-bay norco with all the server components including Areca 1880i RAID card, HP Expander, etc, and a 20-bay norco sitting on top of it with just a power supply, second HP expander and JBOD power board -- for a total 44 drives.
 
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