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the calculation is that they will only earn USD2 more by being on Epic than Steam..

if Steam was smart, they should just drop the % a itsy bit to level it out. Win-win for the Dev/Publisher
 
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My god... I understand that having more than 10 providers would be inconvenient and annoying... But if you cannot handle a few ... life must be hard... do you go to just one or two restaurants to be sure that you will not get loss on your way there??

prob is lack of reviews and forums on Epic.
If they have that as well, then no genuine complains after
 

Delicieuxz

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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Messages
1,252
the calculation is that they will only earn USD2 more by being on Epic than Steam..

if Steam was smart, they should just drop the % a itsy bit to level it out. Win-win for the Dev/Publisher

$2 more per sale from Epic applies to only the first $10 million of Steam sales. As soon as ME sells $10 million on Steam, Valve's fee drops to 25% of $60 (compared to Epic's 12% of $50) and then they make $1 more per copy sold on Steam than on Epic. And once ME reaches $50 million in sales on Steam they start making $4 more per copy on Steam.

1 million copies sold on Epic will = $44 million to 4A and Deep Silver
1 million copies sold on Steam will = $45 million to 4A and Deep Silver

If 4 million copies of ME were sold on Epic, it would give 4A and Deep Silver $176 million.
If 4 million copies of ME were sold on Steam, it would give 4A and Deep Silver $189 million.

Here's the full math: https://hardforum.com/threads/metro-exodus-is-an-epic-store-exclusive.1976314/page-6#post-1044061477


So, Steam is already more profitable than Epic for 4A and Deep Silver based on fees and the game's list price at the respective platforms. But, Tim would have offered Deep Silver a large chunk of money to make their game exclusive to Epic. And as Epic made $3 billion last year due to Fortnite, they have a lot of money to throw around. Maybe they offered 4A $50 million or even $100 million to make ME exclusive to Epic. Epic's plan wouldn't be to make a ton on sales from ME, but to grow Epic's customer base quickly so that more people buy games from them and over time Epic makes more money by having a larger customer base. Epic could possibly even be losing money on ME, for the sake of building a large customer base early on.
 
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Dave3d

Limp Gawd
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Nov 7, 2007
Messages
260
My god... I understand that having more than 10 providers would be inconvenient and annoying... But if you cannot handle a few ... life must be hard... do you go to just one or two restaurants to be sure that you will not get loss on your way there??

Man, I really dislike this attitude.
How many DRM's, how many other 'launchers' have there been, that went belly up, and so did our games along with them?
A lot more than a 'few'. Heck, I lost almost my whole GFWL library when they shut down.
How many DRM's should there be in a game? Is 2 ok? How about 3? 4? 7? 10?
I currently have, let me count, 9 launchers. NINE (and I dont even have WOW, DDO, or anything like that. No Blizzard., etc). Do we need another? And another? And another? And when those go belly up, Epic will just close down all the games, and no one will have access to their games anymore. Fun, huh?

I am actually one of the lucky ones who got my order in early (day 1 actually, lol, almost the minute it was put up on Steam), and I cant believe that people are defending Epic, DS, et:al.
The way they did this was just as bad as someone robbing someone in a back ally, or using the old bait-n-switch: Here, here is a 10k watch for only 1k, get wallet perp switches real watch for fake, and he has your money and you are stuck with nothing.
I dont mind there being competition, because that is good for us gamers. But what Epic/DS did, that was just shameful back-ally shady BS.
7 hours for people who had it on their wishlist to buy it? While they were sleeping? Heck, I didnt even hear about it until a day later.

Look at it this way:
Thats like you (Epic/DS) setting up 100 cars in my front lawn (Steam), telling me I can benefit if I sell them, and I go find buyers for all 10 cars (using social media, maybe my youtube account that has 1 trillion people, maybe I actually PAID people to make banners and signs and to go put posters up on walls, etc etc etc), and before the buyers arrive, you call them and tell them the cars are at your place and to not involve me in the transactions, cutting me out and any potential other buyers that might be lined up to pay more or haggle more for the car.

Would you be mad if someone did that to you? What if it wasnt 100 cars, but a million cars? 10 million cars? 200 million cars? When (Steam) did almost ALL the promotion for the game?
Its BS. Its shady. Its back-ally underhandedness.

That said, I sure hope that ME will do SLI, cuz my 2 2080's dont seem to cut the mustard for running the game on Ultra if it will only use 1.

And, to the user that just wanted to talk about the bullet money thing, well, its NOT going to be a shooter. Its going to be more like Thief, or Tomb Raider 2013 but with even less shooting. They have already revealed that yes, it is going to be more RPG like, and less run-n-gun.
I just hope they didnt go overboard on the rpg (which it sounds like they did) just like they went overboard with the run-n-gun with LL.

This may be one game I actually review also, as I have only looked forward to 3 games since 2015:
1. Red Dead Redemption 2 (which to me was just a horse, clothes, walking, talking, sim/management game instead of a BADARSED COWBOY game). Very disappointed, to say the least. Cant believe people give it more than a 4 out of 10. Maybe they are fooled by the graphics, which ARE stunning.
2. Shadow of the Tomb Raider. A game that the devs either got tired of making after the 2nd one, or a publisher that pushed the wrong things on them. 30 hours of boring walking back and forth talking to the same people, who all look like everyone else in the game, which every place in the game is the exact same place (except the waterfalls, those were pretty well done), and the missions were all of 1 mission: Go get item x and return. Another less than stellar game, but better than RDR2, but barely. Stagnated in Paititti for WAY too long. 30 hours too long.
3. Metro Exodus. This and RDR2 were the 2 I was MOST looking forward to. And then this shady crud happens, and I really dont even want to keep the game, even on steam, just to NOT give any of my money to Epic/DS. But, it wont tar my view of the game. I would NOT have bought it at all though if I had not gotten it on steam, or maybe gog if it ever comes out there.
 

M76

[H]F Junkie
Joined
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Messages
11,937
I don't mind having multiple installers, but I do mind having an installer associated with an ill-reputable chinese company. I also mind having an installer which has shady terms of services that seem to ignore GDPR.
 

tetris42

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
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Messages
4,518
It's 70/30 now, did it used to be more in line with Epic? Or was it 70/30 back when Steam was getting credit for sparking the Indy revolution. Honest question as I don't know.
It's always been 70/30 to the best of my knowledge, I believe that's about the percentage for placing a game on console as well. So you might be able to go back 20 years or more and consoles were charging that much back when there were selling them as physical products. It's what's led to them previously being the most profitable company per employee in the US. It's an industry standard, and to the best of my knowledge, Epic is the only company to challenge it. Like I mentioned earlier, if the split had been lower, all these 3rd party launcher might not even exist now.


Man, I really dislike this attitude.
How many DRM's, how many other 'launchers' have there been, that went belly up, and so did our games along with them?
A lot more than a 'few'. Heck, I lost almost my whole GFWL library when they shut down.
How many DRM's should there be in a game? Is 2 ok? How about 3? 4? 7? 10?
I currently have, let me count, 9 launchers. NINE (and I dont even have WOW, DDO, or anything like that. No Blizzard., etc). Do we need another? And another? And another? And when those go belly up, Epic will just close down all the games, and no one will have access to their games anymore. Fun, huh?
I'm 100% with you on not wanting this. This is why I said earlier, GOG is the ONLY storefront doing things right by the customer on this. Steam, Uplay, Epic, it's all the same bullshit, where you have no idea if you'll be able to play games you bought in 10 years. Less launchers isn't any protection at all against that, however. There are plenty of games on Steam that are unplayable now due to the parent company shutting down the server.
 
Joined
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Messages
907
Tencent pretty much owns a majority stake in Epic.

If you support social credit systems, nonexistent security, and further erosion of privacy then by all means buy this on Epic's malware launcher.
I will not blindly install Tencent's shit on my systems -- instead I'll wait a year and buy the game on Steam (or preferably GoG).
 

magoo

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 21, 2004
Messages
14,454
Mmm

I would've preferred a discussion how the original game ammo was more scarce, where you had to literally make a tactical decision between wasting bullets and therefore wasting you're money, as ammo served directly as currency.
And the new videos make it look like Metro has gone full open world fun shooter.

But everyone's panties are tied up in the no Steam store storie
Another launcher I don't have to open when I just double click the games icon, shrugs

If I'm not incorrect, there are two modes in Last Light, one of them being scarce ammo and the other more liberal.
I'm currently playing through Metro 2033 Redux ( which I bought on Steam at the Winter sale for 5 bucks) and it has scarce and liberal modes as well.
I've played both games using both modes and I have to say I enjoy not worrying about ammo.
 
Joined
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Messages
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$2 more per sale from Epic applies to only the first $10 million of Steam sales. As soon as ME sells $10 million on Steam, Valve's fee drops to 25% of $60 (compared to Epic's 12% of $50) and then they make $1 more per copy sold on Steam than on Epic. And once ME reaches $50 million in sales on Steam they start making $4 more per copy on Steam.

1 million copies sold on Epic will = $44 million to 4A and Deep Silver
1 million copies sold on Steam will = $45 million to 4A and Deep Silver

If 4 million copies of ME were sold on Epic, it would give 4A and Deep Silver $176 million.
If 4 million copies of ME were sold on Steam, it would give 4A and Deep Silver $189 million.

Here's the full math: https://hardforum.com/threads/metro-exodus-is-an-epic-store-exclusive.1976314/page-6#post-1044061477


So, Steam is already more profitable than Epic for 4A and Deep Silver based on fees and the game's list price at the respective platforms. But, Tim would have offered Deep Silver a large chunk of money to make their game exclusive to Epic. And as Epic made $3 billion last year due to Fortnite, they have a lot of money to throw around. Maybe they offered 4A $50 million or even $100 million to make ME exclusive to Epic. Epic's plan wouldn't be to make a ton on sales from ME, but to grow Epic's customer base quickly so that more people buy games from them and over time Epic makes more money by having a larger customer base. Epic could possibly even be losing money on ME, for the sake of building a large customer base early on.

that's assuming EPIC does not have the same staggered deal. I assume they do too
 
Joined
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Messages
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Tencent pretty much owns a majority stake in Epic.

If you support social credit systems, nonexistent security, and further erosion of privacy then by all means buy this on Epic's malware launcher.
I will not blindly install Tencent's shit on my systems -- instead I'll wait a year and buy the game on Steam (or preferably GoG).

The cell phone you are using steals far more of your data and privacy. You banning that as well?

Your privacy is long gone now that data drives business. There isn't a company on earth that will survive in the tech world without it, unfortunate to say.

I am not saying this to defend Epic or anyone. I don't like any of it. But sacrificing what you enjoy to be an activist will drive you to an early death.
 

PenGunn

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
349
I've played this game, well the original and the one after. Its not a bad shooter but its not a great one. Go play Stalker if you want this world, its a far better game.

I have taken invective for my love of Fallout 76 by people who should know better but do not. If you buy this because its pretty and new you are bigger fools than me. My new home:

 

stashix

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 25, 2016
Messages
344
I have taken invective for my love of Fallout 76 by people who should know better but do not. If you buy this because its pretty and new you are bigger fools than me.
I thought you were being sarcastic originally? Now I'm not sure.
 

PenGunn

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
349
I thought you were being sarcastic originally? Now I'm not sure.
I have quite unequivocal in my admiration for F76 so I have no idea what you are talking about.

The Metro games are not all that wonderful, as I have said Stalker is a far better game and this thread seemed a good place to point this out. You hate on an original game while loving a pretty shallow one , so I'd have to guess that's what you like. Shallow crap.
 

stashix

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 25, 2016
Messages
344
I have quite unequivocal in my admiration for F76 so I have no idea what you are talking about.

The Metro games are not all that wonderful, as I have said Stalker is a far better game and this thread seemed a good place to point this out. You hate on an original game while loving a pretty shallow one , so I'd have to guess that's what you like. Shallow crap.
Hold your horses there bud, I've beaten all the STALKER games multiple times, they are a very different experience compared to Metro, 4A was never really going for a STALKER competitor.
Metro is a much more story driven, "cinematic" game, not a sandbox like STALKER.
As for Fallout 76 - after sinking ~120 hours into it I can confidently say it's a 5/10 at best.
 

stashix

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 25, 2016
Messages
344
YvI54vn.png

There is something rather sinister about this.
 
Joined
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Messages
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I have taken invective for my love of Fallout 76 by people who should know better but do not. If you buy this because its pretty and new you are bigger fools than me.

Impressive - You state you have taken negative criticism for your game choice and enjoyment for FO76 by others which obviously upsets you. Then, in same sentence, you return the same attack on someone else for looking forward to a game you don't like.
 

Teenk9

Gawd
Joined
Jul 22, 2011
Messages
1,020
I've played this game, well the original and the one after. Its not a bad shooter but its not a great one. Go play Stalker if you want this world, its a far better game.

I have taken invective for my love of Fallout 76 by people who should know better but do not. If you buy this because its pretty and new you are bigger fools than me. …snipped off posted image

The irony in this post...
 

PenGunn

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
349
Impressive - You state you have taken negative criticism for your game choice and enjoyment for FO76 by others which obviously upsets you. Then, in same sentence, you return the same attack on someone else for looking forward to a game you don't like.

I have been called terrible things and told to eat shit basically. I do take this stuff for what its worth but they are rather nasty attacks.

The game Metro and many others like it are bread crumb games. You don't have any serious choices and are herded to your destination. Its the openness of both Stalker and the Fallout games I love. You are welcome to play your corridor games and I hope you have fun but I think they are kinda lame. Rage did this to me and only the amazing Bethesda save of Doom, brought me back to playing id games.
 

GoldenTiger

Fully [H]
Joined
Dec 2, 2004
Messages
20,776
Or was it 70/30 back when Steam was getting credit for sparking the Indy revolution. Honest question as I don't know.
It's always been 70/30, which wasn't as bad when only good games could get on there. Now it's a free for all with bad curation.
 

polonyc2

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
19,876
the first 2 games are a master class in immersion and atmosphere...one of the better FPS in recent memory...I don't get how anyone who loved those games would skip Exodus just because it's on a different gaming client...plus it's more open world and not confined to the metro tunnels...and the games have always been a graphics tech showcase on PC...a potentially epic conclusion to the Metro trilogy
 

odditory

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Messages
6,482
I don't get how anyone who loved those games would skip Exodus just because it's on a different gaming client...
It's not really about a different launcher, but that hordes of little kids buying endless FortNite dances and skins are effectively financing titles being deleted from Steam. And in this game's case, only a few weeks before launch, after humping Steam's advertising reach ever since it was announced and often appearing on the front page.

That's lame, and it's turning some people off to ever installing Epic so they don't feed the cancer.
 
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polonyc2

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
19,876
It's not really about a different launcher - nevermind one that adds no value to the PC gaming experience since it's just basically a webpage - but rather that hordes of little kids buying FortNite dances and skins are effectively financing titles being deleted from Steam. And in Exodus' case, only a few weeks before the game's release. That's a problem.

it's not being deleted from Steam...Epic just has a 1 year exclusivity...same way that Monster Hunter: World was a console exclusive for 8 months...or Rise of the Tomb Raider which was delayed coming to Steam...people are just making up excuses to not buy the game...I saw someone mention that Epic had a data breach last year...well Steam has also had data breaches...I don't see those people quitting Steam...again much ado over a minor thing
 

HAL_404

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 16, 2018
Messages
1,074
interesting when I consider all the complaint comments I've read about Epic and ME when the same didn't happen when Mass Effect Andromeda wasn't sold on Steam.

Is it based on game quality or what?
 

Taco

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 2, 2001
Messages
1,465
interesting when I consider all the complaint comments I've read about Epic and ME when the same didn't happen when Mass Effect Andromeda wasn't sold on Steam.

Is it based on game quality or what?
Epic has launched a more successful PR campaign against Steam, they were able to get some blood in the water where EA was not.

Also, strictly from a public perception perspective(alliteration win!), Epic at the end of the day made its bones with Unreal with roots in PC Gaming and EA is of course the soul sucking Devourer of Worlds, so Epic is getting more of the benefit of the doubt.
 
Joined
Apr 29, 2002
Messages
2,504
I have been called terrible things and told to eat shit basically. I do take this stuff for what its worth but they are rather nasty attacks.

The game Metro and many others like it are bread crumb games. You don't have any serious choices and are herded to your destination. Its the openness of both Stalker and the Fallout games I love. You are welcome to play your corridor games and I hope you have fun but I think they are kinda lame. Rage did this to me and only the amazing Bethesda save of Doom, brought me back to playing id games.

The internet is a dumpster fire. Forums are filled with emotionally unstable jackasses, laugh it off versus attack back and it will enrage them further while making you happier. Many people have been insulted regarding their hardware, software, car, mod, sound, laptop, cell or anything choice. People are terrified their purchase is in adequate and can only defend by attack. Don't be one of them.

Metro is linear sure, remember they are based on novels so the path is fixed in theory right off the bat. I personally love both the Fallout and Metro series (I hate multiplayer so 76 isn't high on the list), played many many hours in all of them. Mostly FO:NV. I think Metro:E is a step to Fallout with their intended open world so maybe this one will fit your game play preference. Lashing out from past games will just fuel the asshats I reference in my first sentence.
 

odditory

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Messages
6,482
it's not being deleted from Steam...Epic just has a 1 year exclusivity...same way that Monster Hunter: World was a console exclusive for 8 months...or Rise of the Tomb Raider which was delayed coming to Steam...

Bottom line you can't buy it on Steam now. They got Steam users hyped for a whole year and rode the free publicity train, took a bribe and pulled the rug out right before release.

Monster Hunter wasn't a bait-and-switch exclusive. RotTR also wasn't a bait-and-switch exclusive. And FWIW the RotTR devs hinted later that it was a mistake going Windows 10 store exclusive since sales were in the toilet.

Epic throwing Fortnite dance emote cash at publishers to pull games from Steam last minute? I don't care how good a game is, I'll never give Epic a dime. If Valve starts bribing publishers to stop selling games at other stores, I'll stop buying Steam games too.
 
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Dave3d

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
260
interesting when I consider all the complaint comments I've read about Epic and ME when the same didn't happen when Mass Effect Andromeda wasn't sold on Steam.
Is it based on game quality or what?

If a game STARTS out saying they arent going to be on XYZ, or says after a few months that, they arent being dishonest. And, it has nothing to do with the quality of the game.
It has to do with Deep Silver and Epic USING Steam to promote their game, get people interested in it, get the word out, on STEAMS dime, and then pulling the rug out from under STEAM at the last minute and saying they cant sell the game anymore, when STEAM put in almost ALL the effortr to promote Deep Silver's game.

Destiny 2, Red Dead Redemption, and other (PC) games I wont mention, all said UP FRONT that they would NOT be on Steam, or any xyz platform, from the get go. From the start. Or, at least halfway before release (like, a year or 2 before releasing the game). Thats fine. Thats competitiveness. Its needed. Its good for a product. But, what Epic and Deep Silver did was dishonest, pulling the rug out from under everyone (gamers) and Steam, 2 WEEKS BEFORE THE GAME IS SHIPPING. Shady, back-ally dealing, and screw**g over customers that want their games where they want their games. (not to mention all the stuff I said above).

If you dont understand that, then there is not much help for you, or you are one of their corperate shills. Heck, the guy who wrote the books said he didnt have a hand in it and is just watching his work, his baby, go down the drain because of this. And I am sure 4A has a LOT to say about this, but cant because they are the bottom of the food chain, and if they say anything, goodbye studio, or goodbye developer, and goodbye job/money/etc

I really dont understand how people do not get that this was more than shady practices, and I bet Steam ends up sueing DS/Epic for at least all the money they put out promoting the game, or maybe even lost revenue.
Epic is going to go down so hard, they wont be able to recover. People who have never pirated before say they are going to pirate the game, thats how bad they messed the community (IE: Consumers, Gamers, US) over.
But, yeah, support them, I am sure they will need blankets for their new cardboard apartments soon.
I only feel sorry for 4A. I hope they can get out from under these guys, and land with a good publisher for once (and no, not M$ again). They make some of the best games, the best atmospheres, and with that guys story, the best stories. Immersion is what they put out, and thats hard to do in most video games, especially these days.
So, here is a shout-out to 4A devs, I hope you guys come out well after this. Unless it comes out you actually were part of this situation, and condoned it, and then I will just have to say goodbye to some of the most talented developers around, and miss a lot of your games.

And remember, I am one of the lucky ones to have pre-purchased it on steam before this all happened, I get the game on steam. I am just disheartened at another step in the wrong direction Gaming seems to be going. Been seeing a LOT of them over the years, since the 90's. :(
 
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percydaman

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Messages
294
Because Epic bribed the publisher to remove the game from Steam two weeks before launch. That's just slimy any way you look at it.

Won't be buying this one and encouraging Epic's behavior.

And because other than having a storefront to sell games, it is inferior in every other way to Steam. Steam is not immune to criticism from me, but Epic should never have created their store until it at least had some of the same features as Steam. Fuck the epic store.
 

AVT

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Messages
4,770
Ugh, this is utterly stupid.

I won't be buying any single-played game that requires me to provide my email and create an account on a new platform. If you're a hardcore gamer and want to have access to everything - fine - but I'm a casual gamer and don't.

All of these fucks end up emailing me garbage advertisement emails at least once ever year, even after I unsubscribe - just like the online storefronts who require you to create an account, which I also avoid whenever possible. I'd rather pay extra to go through an online platform like eBay or Amazon that regulates what they can and cannot do. My time is worth more than the difference in money, whether it be dealing with emails, or if I want to reorder and need to figure out what my password is.

I've put my money where my mouth is here too - with GTA and one of the the Dragon Age games half a decade ago.
 
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