GTX 1660Ti reviews out

Discussion in 'Video Cards' started by Stoly, Feb 22, 2019.

  1. _chesebert_

    _chesebert_ [H]Lite

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    Why are most Vega 56/64 still overpriced at many of the retailers/e-tailers. If I were a regular consumer, I would go with 1660ti or 2060 as you can always find those at or around the MSRP. Vegas are generally much more expensive, except during sale, but those are time/location specific. I would not be surprised if AMD cards are perceived by ordinary consumers as more expensive and perform poorer than comparable Nvidia cards.
     
  2. cybereality

    cybereality [H]ardness Supreme

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    Vega is actually okay performance-wise, but the pricing issues have really been a plague. At MSRP it is a decent proposition if you can find them.
     
  3. cybereality

    cybereality [H]ardness Supreme

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    This is for mainstream consumers, who are largely still playing at 1080p. 1080p accounts for 60% of gamers, according to Steam stats.

    DLSS and RT are nice, but as we see it's intensive even for a $1,200 video card, no way Nvidia could make that work for under $300.
     
  4. defaultluser

    defaultluser [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Yeah, at least for Newegg, the pricing algorithm manipulation has finally been tamed.
     
  5. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

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    AFAIK MSRP for Vega 56 is $399, and when I look at Newegg that is what they are selling for.
     
  6. 5150Joker

    5150Joker 2[H]4U

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  7. oldmanbal

    oldmanbal [H]ard|Gawd

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    If enough people buy these before navi comes out, navi won't have enough of a market to capitalize on the 7nm node before Nvidia refreshes.
     
  8. _chesebert_

    _chesebert_ [H]Lite

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    I would think $399 for Vega 56 in the face of 2060 and 1660ti is overpriced.
     
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  9. Stoly

    Stoly [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'm sure the GTX1660 will be at $249, the Ti version going for $279 (and there are a couple of cards going for that) is no big deal IMO, yes there will be cards in the $300 range but anything higher and you might just get a RTX2060.
     
  10. Stoly

    Stoly [H]ardness Supreme

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    I think the RTX2060 and GTX1660Ti are the only turing cards that are not overpriced. Vega 56 is and don't get me started on Vega64
     
  11. odditory

    odditory [H]ardness Supreme

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    Apparently not -- already all sold out on Amazon.

    People always have these ideas of what they think a GPU *should* be priced at, but its completely detached from the universal determiner of price: supply and demand.
     
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  12. tajoh111

    tajoh111 Limp Gawd

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    There were hardly plenty in stock. If there was, there would not be numerous Vega 56 at 400+ while the single SKU at 280 out of stock. If Vega 56 was truly 280 dollars, we would see multiple cards at that price point.

    Furthermore, Anandtech confirmed there was no price drop at on the Vega 56 and this is a temporary per partner basis. This is reflected by a only a single SKU, with a single brand at a single retailer selling at these prices.

    At 280 dollars, this is likely loss pricing if you consider the RX Vega 56 at $330 and $350 near cost and the Radeon VII having a cost near 430-500. If AMD can make a profit on Vega 56 at 280 dollars which is a requirement for many cards as you imply to be available, the cost to produce a Radeon VII is less than 400 dollars because a 280 dollar price point with partner and retailer margin built in, means Vega 56 BOM is around 230 dollars. That is too low and implicate 2 stacks of HBM2 being about 70 dollars when you include the cost of the chip(50-100), the interposer(25), the cooler(20), the PCB(10), power circuitry/assembly(30-40) + game bundle(20). $70 dollars for 2 stacks of HBM is even too low even for my standards.

    This is just a publicity stunt to sour the GTX 1660 ti launch and is a dirty move because it is trying to distort reviews by creating an imaginary competitor which doesn't exist for most consumers and only seeks to harm the launch of a new product. Thankfully most reviewers are not biting.If they did bite, this would basically cause companies to drop the price of a single SKU temporary before every launch to sully the review of every new competitors launch doing more harm for consumers than good by reducing the value of every review.

    This cards is basically the best we can expect from a prestige brand which is mostly competing with itself.

    Nvidia would not price this at 250 dollars or lower without pressure because the GTX 1660 ti cost more to make than the outgoing GTX 1060 with memory significantly more expensive than last gen in DDR6 and a die about 40% larger than the GTX 1060.

    https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/gddr6-significantly-more-expensive-than-gddr5.html

    If AMD can get away with a 22% price increase for a 10% increase in performance while largely recycling Polaris 10 while using the same memory for the RX590, Nvidia can definitely charge 12% more money for a 35-40% performance increase when it is actually a new card with new technology on top of being the premium brand in he market.

    It's strange but Nvidia has been the company driving price drops and increases in price to performance lately. What makes it ironic is AMD deemed this consumer friendly while Nvidia is the rip off company.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
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  13. cybereality

    cybereality [H]ardness Supreme

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    I couldn't help myself, I bought one. The EVGA XC, 3 slot but shorter length to fit in a Micro-ATX HTPC.

    Currently that machine has an RX 460. Was doing Steam In-Home Streaming, but I haven't used it much at all.

    The 1660 Ti is about perfect for this 1080p projector, so I'll check it out and see how it looks.
     
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  14. cybereality

    cybereality [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yep. A product is worth exactly what people are willing to pay for it.
     
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  15. mbelue

    mbelue Limp Gawd

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    Actually this release solidifies the price of RTX cards. I'd expect this to be one of the last cards NVidia produces without RTX. At least the highest performing. Sure they'll produce more lower performing cards but everything that performs above this will cost 2060 prices probably from now on.

    This card is a statement that says RTX is the future that only Nvidia sells, and that price is gonna stay $350+.

    In a couple years when they release a new generation RTX 2.0 they'll keep the same price/performance ratio. Anything that doesn't have RTX will always perform less.

    Smart marketing but kind of dick move.

    Still the performance per watt of these is killer, as is the price. So despite the fact they are splitting the market in to RTX haves/haves-not they have a good value for performance.
     
  16. Ranulfo

    Ranulfo [H]ard|Gawd

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    And yet MSI and EVGA want $310 for their wunderkind versions of the 1660ti. $279 for a single fan variant from evga? Ha ha ha. Get back to me when the top model is $279 not $30 more.
     
  17. cybereality

    cybereality [H]ardness Supreme

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    I just bought the EVGA XC for $289, so $10 extra. Not a whole lot of money. Tax was more.
     
  18. tajoh111

    tajoh111 Limp Gawd

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    Kyle has already establish the utility of RTX is limited and gets worse the lower in the product stack you go.

    This is basically a card that is uses a smaller die while removing the RTX features, lowering the price to give better price to performance which is largely what much of this board was asking for.

    Selling 440mm2 chips at $250 dollars is low margin stuff that a company in a leadership position won't do which is what it would take to give RTX to the 250 dollar market, particularly without competition.

    When AMD can launch cards like the RX 590 which is 232mm2 cards, using old tech almost 3 years old at 280 dollars, Nvidia can price their cards at a minimum at that levels with performance along those lines because the market already prefers Nvidia at equal price to performance. AMD choosing to gouge customers enables Nvidia to raise their prices. The fact that the the GTX 1660 ti and Nvidia are causing price drops to happen rather than AMD shows that AMD is hardly the consumer friendly company people they think they are. By pricing their cards at RTX levels of bad, AMD is enabling a price fixing environment where both competitors decide to raise the pricing of all cards at the same time and force consumer to pay more.

    RTX 2080 launch for example consumers were reprehensive about the pricing of the RTX 2080. Radeon VII launches at the same price with worse performance and now the RTX 2080 now looks better than it did at launch. Now Nvidia can price their next generation higher and AMD can stay at the old inflated pricing or follow Nvidia pricing which enables Nvidia to price their cards even higher.

    AMD needs to lower the pricing of their cards vs Nvidia because whether they like it or not, they are the value brand in the market place. They keep the market in check by providing an alternative to Nvidia's premium pricing and will gain marketshare whenever Nvidia prices their cards too high which in turn causes Nvidia to keep their prices in check. AMD should be able to price their cards lower than Nvidia because of the stark difference they spend on R and D on graphics. We need both AMD and Nvidia to fail at elevated pricing, not just Nvidia for better pricing to occur.
     
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  19. Dayaks

    Dayaks [H]ardness Supreme

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    Omg such a good price.... said no one. #waitforNavi
     
  20. Stoly

    Stoly [H]ardness Supreme

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    #waitfornavi #bedissapointedagain #waitforwhatevercomesnextafternaviandmaybenotbedissapointedagain
     
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  21. Burticus

    Burticus 2[H]4U

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    Matches up to 1070 as expected. I guess I didn't expect it to torch the 1060 that bad, that just goes to show how gimped the 1060 is compared to 1070.

    This will be a solid seller in the sub $300 category I'm sure. OTOH they could have just kept making 1070's.. but shiny and new models sell more (I guess)
     
  22. _chesebert_

    _chesebert_ [H]Lite

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    I think Nvidia is making more profit with 1660 compete to 1070 given the smaller die size.
     
  23. Krenum

    Krenum [H]ardForum Junkie

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    A sub $300 dollar graphics card with GTX 1070 performance from Nvidia? That actually is a good price considering....

    By comparison, I payed that for a Geforce 2 GTS in 1999....A Geforce 2.
     
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  24. 5150Joker

    5150Joker 2[H]4U

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    Compared to a 1070 which was going for $299 on NewEgg a few days ago, this 1660 Ti is hardly a great deal since it has 2 gb of less vram.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
  25. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

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  26. cybereality

    cybereality [H]ardness Supreme

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    Right on. To me the price and performance seem more than fair.
     
  27. 5150Joker

    5150Joker 2[H]4U

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    There ya go, I'd much rather have this card than the 1660 Ti. NVIDIA hasn't done anything special here, they're giving the same level of performance we've had for a long time now with 2 gb of less ram and $20 shaved off the price. If AMD can drop Vega 56 to $320 it would be a better deal than the 1660 Ti.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
  28. cybereality

    cybereality [H]ardness Supreme

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    The GTX 1070 launched at $379, so this is $100 cheaper at launch.
     
  29. 5150Joker

    5150Joker 2[H]4U

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    Yes but that is irrelevant as we should look at current market prices, not what was a few years ago.
     
  30. odditory

    odditory [H]ardness Supreme

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    Most will choose 1660Ti for the improved NVENC hardware video encoder, longer tail on resale value and driver improvements, cooler and lower power. Pretty much everything is better than a 3yr old 1070. It's newer silicon, its newer tech.

    All of the above outweighs the 2GB VRAM difference since most people buying this GPU will be gaming at sub-4K resolutions where that delta will be irrelevant in most games.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
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  31. 5150Joker

    5150Joker 2[H]4U

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    Well there's also the fact that 1070 can be SLI'd and the NVENC performance while decent for streamers isn't going to make a huge impact on platforms like Twitch. The lower power is pretty much irrelevant here as the 1070 was never a big power hog nor did it run hot. As for 6 gb of VRAM being enough, we're already seeing titles TODAY that are pushing close to 6 gb of use at 1440p: https://www.techspot.com/article/1785-nvidia-geforce-rtx-2060-vram-enough/

    So basically the 1070 has better longevity at 1440p than this card does. There's also the rumor of next gen consoles coming in 2020 and if that pans out, we'll see vram usage jump in games again. I am not at all impressed by the 1660 Ti or any Turing card for that matter, NVIDIA can and should do better.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
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  32. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

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    It's new, not refurbished.
     
  33. 5150Joker

    5150Joker 2[H]4U

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    No I edited my post to remove a refurb vega 56 link.
     
  34. Dayaks

    Dayaks [H]ardness Supreme

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    A 2060 is $350. It’s so close I’d just go for that and you get half assed RTX features to mess around with and the 20% rasterized increase basically can justify the extra money. That’s probably the point of this pricing though.

    1660ti is slightly overpriced for what it is. I bet it drops like a rock when Navi comes out. Although the Radeon VII wasn’t exactly overwhelming, but at least they are in the game again, so I guess cautious optimism for Navi...
     
  35. odditory

    odditory [H]ardness Supreme

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    Why would 1660Ti drop like a rock? If the mythical Navi ever comes out, street prices will be in the stratosphere thanks to fanboys throwing money at scalpers.
     
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  36. Dayaks

    Dayaks [H]ardness Supreme

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    I am just going off what the rabid fanboys are rumoring. Don’t shoot the messenger.

    Historically AMD does come in about $50-100 too much. We don’t like facts though...
     
  37. Stoly

    Stoly [H]ardness Supreme

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    One thing is allocated memory and other thing is used memory. Techspot did a test for the RTX2060 and none of the games were affected by the 6gb RAM "limitation"
     
  38. Nightfire

    Nightfire [H]ard|Gawd

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    As we know, fps doesn't always show the whole story. I really like Tom's frametime variance charts that simplify a messy line graph:
    https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1660-ti-turing,6002-3.html

    Newer DX12 games really seem to like bandwidth, and the GTX 1660ti shines in BF5.
    Screenshot_20190222-161523_Samsung Internet.jpg

    HOWEVER, things look a bit ugly in Wolfenstein, a Vulkan title:

    Screenshot_20190222-161735_Samsung Internet.jpg

    Wolfenstein is indeed a ram hog in uber mode. It was truly one of the first games to make the 4gb Fuji X fall to Polaris. I don't think it is a driver issue as things were still ok at 1080p. It is definitely something to keep an eye on.
     
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  39. bildad

    bildad Gawd

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    1880ti please
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
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  40. Randall Stephens

    Randall Stephens Limp Gawd

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    What sort of hash rates in whatever is popular with the kiddies these days?