GM Plans to Launch Autonomous Car Without Steering Wheel or Pedals Next Year

Discussion in '[H]ard|OCP Front Page News' started by Montu, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. Montu

    Montu [H]ard DCOTM x4

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    If you go to Vegas or some similar destination next year you just might jump into a cab that not only is driverless, but it's not going to have a steering wheel or pedals. It's going to be just you, your friends and some comfortable seats. At least this is what GM is hoping for next year. Keep an eye out because this is our new AI world.

    Of course, dropping the steering wheel gets tricky when you consider federal regulations that require things like steering wheels. So GM has officially asked the federal Department of Transportation to exempt these vehicles from certain parts of the rules that govern automotive safety. Because those were written for human-driven cars, they include requirements like a foot-activated brake pedal and an airbag built into the steering wheel.
     
  2. RogueTadhg

    RogueTadhg [H]ard|Gawd

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    Jesus, Grab the wheel!

    ...oh wait...

    We're all gonna die!!
     
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  3. travisty

    travisty Limp Gawd

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    Simply put, this is the future.

    Human-driven vehicles will be outlawed sooner than most imagine. (the vast majority will not own a vehicle either so it won't be a drastic change)
     
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  4. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    I think under controlled conditions (good weather, well marked city roads) something like this could work reasonably well, which is why you probably won't see these everywhere.

    I wonder how they will deal with more practical issues though. Like say, cab picks up someone who has partied a little bit too wildly and vomits in the car. Without a driver, how does it know to return to home base for a clean-up before accepting future passengers?
     
  5. deeppow

    deeppow Limp Gawd

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    Remember the old joke about the airplane being piloted by a computer? It went something like, "Relax folks I'm a HAL computer flying this plane, set back and relax, nothing can go wrong, nothing can go wrong, nothing can go wrong, ...."
     
  6. Gigus Fire

    Gigus Fire 2[H]4U

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    No thanks. I really don't think these are ready for prime time.
     
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  7. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    Personally I have no interest what so ever in autonomous vehicles. I see some limited usability in taxi use and maybe delivery services, but for every day driving I don't see it taking over any time soon.

    Inclement weather and poor infrastructure is going to be part of the problem. Many of these systems work very well as long as lanes are clearly marked, but what happens when you traverse a beaten up city street or unmarked road out in some podunk town, or when you cover everything in snow? I don't think we are even within 20 years of solving that problem.

    Don't get me wrong, it is technically doable. You could solve something like this by relying less on optical systems, and doing something like installing those wireless dog fences underground on the sides of every road in the country, but we all know how easy it is to get local, state and federal governments to spend money on infrastructure.

    That, and cars stay on the road for a long time, and we all know how unpopular banning peoples favorite things can be. Just look at the second amendment crowd. I don't see a ban on human driven vehicles being a reality any time soon, if ever.

    The funny thing is, like most people, I don't personally want an autonomous car, but I wish all those other idiot drivers out there had one :p
     
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  8. deeppow

    deeppow Limp Gawd

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    Two autonomous cars crash, which one's insurance pays? Or an autonomous car crashes into a human driven car and kills the driver, what then? Lawyers are going to have fun with this one.......big pay check?
     
  9. panhead

    panhead Gawd

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    How do you control the car off the road? Which garage bay to park in?
     
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  10. freeloader1969

    freeloader1969 2[H]4U

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    Not even close.
     
  11. panhead

    panhead Gawd

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    Audi and Volvo are accepting liability for their autonomous cars.
     
  12. katanaD

    katanaD Limp Gawd

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    there has been an autopilot mode in planes for some time, yet they still have fully outfitted cockpits because you just never know. the tech isnt there yet to fully remove them.

    but.. without any real world road experience they are already planning on removing all the controls for an autonomous vehicle?? which will have a ton more obstacles then a plane in the sky

    I am very much FOR autonomous vehicles, but lets get some on the road in day to day usage and see what needs to be worked on.
     
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  13. sadsteve

    sadsteve Limp Gawd

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    But, most of the time I like to drive! It would be nice to have an autopilot mode but I don't want a car that won't let me drive when I want.
     
  14. Dalexx

    Dalexx [H]Lite

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    I imagine the little black boxes are going to tell them 95% of what they need to know. By the time these get close to prime time, they'll probably have video feeds for the last 5 mins and so forth. With that said, no steering wheel seems too radical, but I assume they want to limit scared drivers grabbing the wheel and causing problems.
     
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  15. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

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    This.

    What happens if your long driveway or new street is not in the database?
    What happens when something is blocking the street? How do you tell the car to go around the obstruction by goingn through a parking lot or driving on the shoulder?

    Until these cars are so smart, that you can give the directions and they can learn a new path (turn right at this street, etc), we will need a steering wheel.
     
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  16. cyclone3d

    cyclone3d [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Just wait until some road rager pulls in one of these vehicles and stops.. and then proceeds to kill the occupants of the autonomous vehicle.

    The autonomous vehicle is not going to have any idea on how to escape. It will just sit there because something is blocking it.
     
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  17. U-238

    U-238 Limp Gawd

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    Driving is one of the most relaxing activities I have ever personally experienced. I absolutely love doing it to the point that I drive whenever possible and, in the event it's not possible (or safe) to drive I'll drive around in various sims on my desktop. I like driving and I'll be damned if these techno egg-heads are going to take that away from me. They'll have to pry the wheel from my cold dead hands.

    /grumpynotoldguymode
     
  18. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

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    Maybe it's because I'm getting old, but I'd love to have an autonomous car.
    It would make the work commute so much easier.

    We'd also go on more driving vacations. I'd love to be able to sleep while the car travels to our next location over night.
    I could see autonomous cars replacing shorter plane flights, and especially trains.
    If I could get where I'm going over night, and have a car to drive when I get there, why bother dealing with cramped airline seats and the TSA?

    Even better if the car could drop me off at the airport, drive back home and park in my driveway/garage, and then come pick my up when I get back. Would really solve the problem with expensive airport parking.
     
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  19. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

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    You must not live in Southern California. I don't see how anyone could enjoy dealing with the typical traffic out here.
     
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  20. Uvaman2

    Uvaman2 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Meh, cars as a service doesn't sound like a terrible idea i suppose it all has to do with minimum possible cost i guess
     
  21. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ [H]ardness Supreme

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    and all that police revenue dries up.

    i smell some layoffs coming.
     
  22. Comixbooks

    Comixbooks Ignore Me

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    Wait until Pizza Hut and Dominos uses these....
     
  23. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman [H]ardness Supreme

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  24. otherweeb

    otherweeb Gawd

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    How is that any different than a human driver that panics or is hemmed in? (traffic ya know) Maybe you want the defensive machine gun option?
     
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  25. MRAB54

    MRAB54 Gawd

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    I wonder how it will deal with deciding whether it should swerve to avoid hitting the two people in the crosswalk but drive the car into a light pole instead.
     
  26. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman [H]ardness Supreme

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    I think we've been thru that question in the past. The base program is to protect the occupants. How is a basic AI going to make the analysis to preserve one life over another? I think its more of a pragmatic issue at this point and maybe even a legal one. As a customer would you be a customer knowing the AI could choose an outcome that leads to your death instead of preserving your life?
     
  27. Seventyfive

    Seventyfive Gawd

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    This will never happen. Local governments strongly rely on DUI's for revenue and if we have fully autonomous cars with no steering wheel or pedals they can't give DUI's. We will, for the forseeable future, have steering wheels and pedals so that the local governments can still give DUI's under the premise that 'if the car failed, you would have to take control, and you were too drunk to take control so here's your $5000 dui"
     
  28. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    Don't get me wrong.

    There are many advantages to this tech. It would be nice to be able to go to an event or a fancy dinner and ahve some drinks without worrying about a DUI and alternate transportation as well.

    Having the OPTION to take advantage of autonomous driving when you need it would be nice. Being stuck with autonomous driving whether you want it or not, would be hell.

    Furthermore, we see this problem withe the Tesla Model 3. Because Musk in his infinite wisdom has decided to make autonomous driving a huge focus, rather than just building a good electric car, this feature was used as a rationale behind the minimalist interior of the car, without even having an instrument cluster. Who needs that when most of the time you'll be enjoying autonomous driving, right?

    This is a problem too. I want primarily a drivers car, designed around a driver with a true cockpit-like experience with gauges, clusters and controls up the wazoo, in ergonomic positions. None of this touch screen crap, because you can't do that based on tactile feel only. If it also has an autonomous mode for occasional use, that would be great. I'm not sure I'd be willing to pay extra for it, but I can see circumstances where it might be useful. The "drivers car" experience - however - is paramount for me, and will drive my purchasing decisions first and foremost.
     
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  29. MavericK

    MavericK Zero Cool

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    Just have a guy in a room monitoring wireless cameras installed in the cabs...probably could do a dozen or so at a time.
     
  30. cyberguyz

    cyberguyz Limp Gawd

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    Autonomous cars only make sense when they are the only kind of cars on the road. As long as there are human-controlled cars on the streets and highways, autonomous cars will never be as safe or as useful as they claim.

    Let's face it, an autonomous car loses its appeal when someone manually driving their car plows into it and kills you. Is the autonomous car gonna get out of the way like a human would? I don't think so.
     
  31. Sikkyu

    Sikkyu I Question Reality

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    i still drive a manual and continue to go out of my way to buy manual cars.
     
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  32. jeffreybt

    jeffreybt n00bie

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    Self driving cars are almost completely useless on snow covered roads (and bad weather in general), they don't deal with roadwork well or at all, unfinished and unpainted roads are also a major problem.
    there is a long way to go before they are the norm for anyone outside of testbed cities.
     
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  33. thejokker

    thejokker Gawd

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    This will be an epic failure and will destroy the careers of the fools who are advocating this nonsense. People on this forum should know better. Buggy software crashing on your computer is annoying but buggy software in a self-driving car will kill innocent people. Those who might try and argue that self driving car software will not be buggy should be banned for pretending to know anything about computers...
     
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  34. cyclone3d

    cyclone3d [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I'm all for people carrying guns to defend themselves.

    That being said, if the care is autonomous with no way for the occupants to take control, it could lead to a much more dangerous situation for the occupant(s). If you have control of the vehicle at least you could try to get away or run over the assailant if it comes to that.

    Think of it this way.
    1. People riding in completely autonomous car.
    2. Thieves/whatever driving a regular vehicle.
    3. Thieves/whatever stop completely autonomous vehicle.
    4. Thieves/whatever rob/hurt/kill people in autonomous vehicle because the people in completely autonomous vehicle have no way to get away.
    5. Thieves/whatever drive away.
     
  35. darckhart

    darckhart n00bie

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    GM MGMT: We need to cut costs. Since these are autonomous vehicles, let's remove the human control elements.
    GM ENGR: But we need those as backups!
    GM MGMT: So you don't believe in our AI?
    GM ENGR: Well.... it's just good to have backup systems, especially when you have humans in there.
    GM MGMT: Are you TRYING to drive us out of business?? We need to cut costs everywhere we can so we can ensure our absurd bonuses!
    GM ENGR: .......
     
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  36. jcollett69

    jcollett69 [H]Lite

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    If we no longer have a steering wheel, accelerator pedal, brake pedal, or any other drive controls, then what is the point of facing forward or even having a windshield? Wouldn't design go back to the 19th century style carriages with all passengers facing each other?
     
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  37. oldmanbal

    oldmanbal [H]ard|Gawd

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    Some of us actually enjoy driving cars, going fast, and taking risks. While this may be lumped in with risk taking, I'm still going to get the package that has the driving wheel on my car :p
     
  38. MV75

    MV75 Gawd

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    As a driver I don't have that problem at every crossing as I look for the people on either side as I approach. Just imagine the daily drive to the shops, "Yea, I chose the people this time, go clean the blood off the car son". :D

    The only real benefit for driverless cars is for old people. They still get to go out and we are safe from their poor driving. Win win. Companies using them for things like taxis is largely some sort of technology virtue signalling crap.
     
  39. face2palm

    face2palm Gawd

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    I'd be up for the ED-209 version.
     
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  40. GNUse_the_force

    GNUse_the_force Limp Gawd

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    Maybe it will be like the game watchdogs and the Ai will asses the status of the specific human pedestrian vs the cost of hitting a roadside asset and choose accordingly.Although given Ai and automation is supposed to wipe out 30% of all jobs taking unemployment to near 50% that should mean most people will get run over as opposed to avoided..

    It might just end up like Carrmagedon

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
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