GM Plans to Launch Autonomous Car Without Steering Wheel or Pedals Next Year

KarsusTG said:
I don't disagree, I just think we have a LOT of hurdles Have you ever seen a clean taxi?
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Once. But where I live I never see taxis. The hurdles will be solved if the market for self driving cars is there.

Edit to clarify:
I don't disagree, I think a lot of those hurdles are legal. But if there looks to be good profit it will happen. I'm not saying overnight, but sooner than a lot of people seem to think. The transition from cars to horses was slow at first, then came Henry Ford and things sped up quite a bit...and there are still uses for horses even now--I think the move (starting from now) will be along the same lines. First see limited uses like we already are: shuttles, convoys of trucks with only one driver, soon taxis and eventually older cars will just start fading away.
 
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Why do I foresee a very real possibility of needing something akin to éX-Drivers in the future?
 
GNUse_the_force said:
Just playing devils advocate here. Won't all Ai cars come with internal cameras and multiple microphones always connected to the cloud ? It's not like there won't be crystal clear audio & photographic evidence of peoples behavior. It may even be required to keep insurance companies happy.

Maybe we should stop calling them cars and call them drone-cabs.. or johnny cabs :wtf:
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I'm sure as hell not going to pay for a cellular connection for my car. Heck, I don't enable my cellular data on my cell phone. The whole idea of perusing the web on 4.3 inch screen is just ridiculous when I've got dual large screen monitors on my computers at work and at home.
 
MV75 said:
Cars as a service, no thanks. There are already too many subscriptions that are nickel and diming us into oblivion with nothing to show for it.

Saving time? More like working us longer. You're expected to work on the way to work, do a full day as that work in the car is extra, and then work on the way home. The whole city will be a school pickup zone as everyones personal autonomous car will be there to personally whisk them away from the front door in fairy land to some other magical point to point destination that is a straight line. Yea, you and the other 50000 people there buddy.



Backwards facing seats are supposed to actually help with that. Does choosing the back facing seats in trains help? They generally do for car sick people.
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I don't know, I've never been on a train with the wifey.
 
travisty said:
Incorrect. People will choose not to own a car as it so much cheaper for the individuals/families.
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How is it cheaper not to own a car? Please explain? Because taking cabs, uber, lyft ect. is pretty expensive on a daily basis, especially for long distances. Do you think these autonomous cars are going to be free to the public? lol fat chance!
 
Krenum said:
How is it cheaper not to own a car? Please explain? Because taking cabs, uber, lyft ect. is pretty expensive on a daily basis, especially for long distances. Do you think these autonomous cars are going to be free to the public? lol fat chance!
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To anyone that's still thinking in a linear paradigm you'd be correct. With exponential technologies and manufacturing costs will drop rapidly.

Please watch either of the videos I've linked to earlier in this thread.

 
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face2palm said:
Singularity University?
LOL
Their entire site is just riddled with biz-speak and marketing nonsense.

This is the best part. "Singularity University is not a degree granting institution."

We should totally listen to what these clowns have to say.
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I laughed when I saw the name Singularity University the first time too; it is applicable though.

Biz-speak and marketing concerns would be correct if SU was selling something; they're not. They're sharing their insights and their ideas and predictions for the future

What SU is about is getting people ready for what's going to happen in the next 10 to 15 years. Since the start of the digital revolution we've been on the part of the exponential curve that grows slower than our linear advancements. We have and/or are crossing the point where the growth is faster than we, humans, alone, are capable of.
 
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So what happens when it breaks? You have to tow it everywhere?
travisty said:
Simply put, this is the future.

Human-driven vehicles will be outlawed sooner than most imagine. (the vast majority will not own a vehicle either so it won't be a drastic change)
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Hah, no. Keep dreaming. When have you driven a car that has never had a failure? What happens when one of the many things fails on the self-driving car?

Humans are imperfect and so is anything they produce. You also can't predict nature. Most people are not willing to hand over their lives to an imperfect machine. 114 years later, even airplanes still have human pilots.
 
sleepeeg3 said:
So what happens when it breaks? You have to tow it everywhere?
Hah, no. Keep dreaming. When have you driven a car that has never had a failure? What happens when one of the many things fails on the self-driving car?

Humans are imperfect and so is anything they produce. You also can't predict nature. Most people are not willing to hand over their lives to an imperfect machine. 114 years later, even airplanes still have human pilots.
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You are stuck in a linear paradigm of tech advancement. We are either just at or now passing the point at which the exponential curve passes the linear progression of human advancement. Deep learning AI is a good example one of the leading technologies.

Autonomous Airplanes:
https://www.wired.com/story/boeing-autonomous-plane-autopilot/
https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/scienc...may-arrive-sooner-you-think-here-s-ncna809856
http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/05/new...res-aurora-autonomous-797-air-taxi/index.html

Boeing and Airbus are in big for autonomous passenger planes and air-taxis


Seeing as 95% of car accidents are caused by human error, even a decrease of 5% from autonomous driving is big. Based off google's 15/16 accident record (1 accident due to the google car and 15 due to human drivers in other vehicles), a decrease of 94% of accidents is a game changer
 
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travisty said:
To anyone that's still thinking in a linear paradigm you'd be correct. With exponential technologies and manufacturing costs will drop rapidly.

Please watch either of the videos I've linked to earlier in this thread.

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Its a nice idea. But LOTS of people are going to be without jobs. Do we just sweep them under the rug? Who's going to pay to retrain them? One thing is for sure, it will leave a vast majority of people here in the US homeless, even more so.
 
Krenum said:
Its a nice idea. But LOTS of people are going to be without jobs. Do we just sweep them under the rug? Who's going to pay to retrain them? One thing is for sure, it will leave a vast majority of people here in the US homeless, even more so.
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That's what policy makers need to think about now not later. IMO Universal Basic Income (UBI) is the best route.
As for what do people do? IMO work less and define themselves by what they are passionate about and not what they do for work.


Future of work (this one is really an awesome talk)




UBI



 
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travisty said:
Simply put, this is the future.

Human-driven vehicles will be outlawed sooner than most imagine. (the vast majority will not own a vehicle either so it won't be a drastic change)
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That would also mean the complete loss of your personal freedom. I can't see this happening in US.
 
As a student of good ol' fashion history, I'll predict this isn't going to work out as well marketing says it will.
 
sadsteve said:
I'm sure as hell not going to pay for a cellular connection for my car. Heck, I don't enable my cellular data on my cell phone. The whole idea of perusing the web on 4.3 inch screen is just ridiculous when I've got dual large screen monitors on my computers at work and at home.
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In theory all Ai cars will be needed to be connected in some way to the cloud so it could just get bundled in as a hidden cost within the leasing price ? Another reason why full ownership with no strings attached might have to become a thing of the past.
 
B00nie said:
That would also mean the complete loss of your personal freedom. I can't see this happening in US.
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How does not driving - being driven instead - take someone's freedom? It's not like driving is a right, it's a dangerous privledge
 
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WhoMe said:
Take up sky diving or free climbing.
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It's a pretty big leap to go from preferring a wheel to use for driving a car vs. one of the activities you recommend so I don't think they work for me sorry. I have bunji jumped but I can't do it on a hot sunny afternoon on my way to the ocean with the music cranked up.
 
travisty said:
That's what policy makers need to think about now not later. IMO Universal Basic Income (UBI) is the best route.
As for what do people do? IMO work less and define themselves by what they are passionate about and not what they do for work.


Future of work (this one is really an awesome talk)




UBI



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Universal Basic Income? Oh lord. I think we're done here.
 
Krenum said:
How is it cheaper not to own a car? Please explain? Because taking cabs, uber, lyft ect. is pretty expensive on a daily basis, especially for long distances. Do you think these autonomous cars are going to be free to the public? lol fat chance!
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It only might be cheaper for those who use Uber or such a few times a month then don't go anywhere, hmm. Obviously my $4,000 payed-off truck getting 20MPG sure is cheaper than taking a "cab" to work, for example. Someday I'll get a work vehicle that gets better mileage, but that's just a possible benefit to a "newer" vehicle requiring $20-30K.
 
RogueTadhg said:
I'm sure they'll more likely use drones to carry their payloads.
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You know what would suck? Getting a text message/email/call saying:

"At this time, your pizza has been delayed/can not be delivered due to the drone being shot down".
 
travisty said:
Simply put, this is the future.
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If we stop to think about it, humans thirst after CONTROL; control over their environment, their spouse(s), children, co-workers, friends, family. When it comes to control over others (except over ourselves), that's one area of life where we don't discriminate. Seems to be about who is in control, you know, like who the BIG dog on the block is. Sometimes the smallest dog is the BIG dog so you can't judge who the BIG dog is based on appearances. Trying to control others happens on a daily bases in the technology business, that much I know is for sure. Come to think of it, it happens on a daily basis regarding most people's lives ...


I have no immediate plans to drive in a wheelless vehicle until they are able to prevent people from hacking into technology. Intel just had a hardware breach so yea, go ahead, go buy your wheelless car :whistle:
 
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How fun! a car that drives while you play games on your iphone.
Kids will love this shit.,
 
ep0x73 said:
How fun! a car that drives while you play games on your iphone.
Kids will love this shit.,
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I will. I don't have an iPhone (or Android), but I sure could see myself getting a good gaming laptop. Guess I'm a 56 year old kid--probably means I'm more mentally healthy than those adults around me ;).
 
oldmanbal said:
It's a pretty big leap to go from preferring a wheel to use for driving a car vs. one of the activities you recommend so I don't think they work for me sorry. I have bunji jumped but I can't do it on a hot sunny afternoon on my way to the ocean with the music cranked up.
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You implied you were dangerous while driving...I just thought these activities, while still dangerous, were much less hazardous to other people. There are lots more, they were just examples. Try riding horses--you steer them and you are (more or less) in control. But they can be rather dangerous--though good skill can reduce that quite a bit (though you could still be rather dangerous to other people). But of course a self-driving car can take you to the beach too, and a lot less likely to hurt other people...and if you want some danger, try swimming with sharks (we used to when we lived on Malibu beach, a good sized sand shark can relieve you of your fingers or even a hand) ;).

I'd rather free climb than bungee jump--there's just something about standing on "the edge" and jumping that gets to me (vs. slipping and falling). Though neither is my current preference :).
 
GNUse_the_force said:
In theory all Ai cars will be needed to be connected in some way to the cloud so it could just get bundled in as a hidden cost within the leasing price ? Another reason why full ownership with no strings attached might have to become a thing of the past.
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I don't lease.
 
..their stock will drop the first time one runs out of power, slides off a road and the tow truck driver has no idea how to get the car in the proper position to tow without a steering wheel.

huh.jpg
 
WhoMe said:
You implied you were dangerous while driving...I just thought these activities, while still dangerous, were much less hazardous to other people. There are lots more, they were just examples. Try riding horses--you steer them and you are (more or less) in control. But they can be rather dangerous--though good skill can reduce that quite a bit (though you could still be rather dangerous to other people). But of course a self-driving car can take you to the beach too, and a lot less likely to hurt other people...and if you want some danger, try swimming with sharks (we used to when we lived on Malibu beach, a good sized sand shark can relieve you of your fingers or even a hand) ;).

I'd rather free climb than bungee jump--there's just something about standing on "the edge" and jumping that gets to me (vs. slipping and falling). Though neither is my current preference :).
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I wouldn't say I'm a dangerous driver per say, but I do enjoy stick and feeling my car from time to time. I've always enjoyed the thrill of a tight corner or a powerful acceleration, but it doesn't mean I'm brashly endangering other peoples lives or my own. I don't need to play on a cellphone while a car drives me to my destination. However I don't live in a large (over million person) city with an hour plus commute so for me the joy of driving is still pure. If I were a miserable commuter I might quickly change my tune. Honestly the ability to sleep for an hour on the way to work in the morning sounds pretty good from where I'm sitting.
 
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Wrecked Em said:
We've been writing software to aircraft development assurance levels for decades. Those systems are much more critical than anything on an automobile. If a 787 software "crashes", you potentially kill thousands. If a Tesla crashes, you kill a maybe a dozen. Plus, there is much less radiation at ground level, so the systems will be inherently more robust than in the air.
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Yeah, too bad there aren't many people out there with this kind of experience, and none of them work in the automotive industry. Also, designing and implementing hardware and software at that level is expensive. Very expensive and time consuming. I don't think consumers will be willing to pay what it will cost.
 
Wrecked Em said:
We've been writing software to aircraft development assurance levels for decades. Those systems are much more critical than anything on an automobile. If a 787 software "crashes", you potentially kill thousands. If a Tesla crashes, you kill a maybe a dozen. Plus, there is much less radiation at ground level, so the systems will be inherently more robust than in the air.
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Are we really talking apples to oranges here? I presume that airline pilots, even while on auto-pilot are constantly monitoring systems and staying alert while passengers in an auto-driving car will be "far" less attentive. The driving environment is also far more complex with far more changing variables.
 
WhoMe said:
But a computer will know far more about its car and the current conditions than a human ever could, computers can react far faster than human and deep learning etc. mean they will be able to learn what humans can and they make far less mistakes. I was going uphill in blizzard one day, I took my foot of the gas when I saw some headlights coming down, it was an instinctive reaction, and that was it lost momentum and ended up parking in someone's driveway until the plow came. A computer would have been able to see that the lights were on a skip loader plowing a driveway and no threat, lidar or IR imagery would have shown that in real time.
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I think you are over-estimating the capacities of sensors. We are talking lenses. Lenses capable of detecting longer distances are going to have a narrower field of vision, etc. etc. Those sensors will be subjected to road dirt and grim but must be kept clean. In terms of sensor capabilities people are far superior particularly under adverse conditions.
 
thejokker said:
I think you are over-estimating the capacities of sensors. We are talking lenses. Lenses capable of detecting longer distances are going to have a narrower field of vision, etc. etc. Those sensors will be subjected to road dirt and grim but must be kept clean. In terms of sensor capabilities people are far superior particularly under adverse conditions.
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I think you're underestimating the research going into this. These problems are solvable, i.e. more sensors for field of view, heaters and wipers, slick glass for lenses (they've been around a long time).
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/25/automobiles/wheels/lidar-self-driving-cars.html
 
This will be the norm eventually but GM is jumping the gun. Great for testing and or publicity but not realistic at this point.


A few thoughts based on the discussion so far; These sorts of vehicles will be used in large metro areas with clear infrastructure and laws to support them. No one that lives around DC, Atlanta, LA or similar locales wants to drive (commute). I’m sure we’d all prefer to get some extra sleep, work or leisure activity done in the 1-2 hours it takes to commute.


You are not going to find this in rural areas until much later and in 40 years or more all new cars may be mandated this way. The majority of issues with cars has to do with the meat behind the wheel. Distracted driving, intoxication, poor judgment, poor vehicle maintenance, etc. These vehicles will have a number of sensors and cameras and there will be infrastructure changes to accommodate them. They will also communicate with each other and the infrastructure and should vastly reduce congestion and traffic.


As to the cost of a ride sharing autonomous vehicle I think for a sizeable portion of the U.S. it will be cheaper. Average vehicle price is in the $30-$40kk range then you need to include insurance, fuel/energy, maintenance and repairs, parking and so forth.
 
WhoMe said:
I think you're underestimating the research going into this. These problems are solvable, i.e. more sensors for field of view, heaters and wipers, slick glass for lenses (they've been around a long time).
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/25/automobiles/wheels/lidar-self-driving-cars.html
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And I believe you are underestimating Murphy's law. Likewise, as with Google Glass, self-driving car advocates are disregarding the social and economic impacts of self-driving cars and vehicles. When people suggest self-driving cars will be revolutionary I think: yeah; like the French Revolution...
 
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