First Timer Advice/Help

[nitrobass24]

So I going to be building a new box, and although I wont be doing any OC, it will be run at 100% load 24/7 and will be quite the heat monster.

I will have 4 GTX295s, and 2x Xeon 5550's(=i7 920) all in one box.

I am think that maybe I should WC this rig, but im not sure where to even start as I have never looked into WC, I have been looking at parts online and I can tell that it can get expensive very quickly.

The thing though that I am most concerned about is leaks. Does this happen often, or can I set it up and let it run for year and it will be good.
I would prefer something that does not require a lot of maintenance, and im not sure where WC will provide that.

Also what are some good value Rads, and Waterblocks?

 

[Delemon]

I'm a noob at WC, but I've been researching for a couple years now.

If you're very careful and leak test the heck out of it, and you don't really move your case much, I could see it running for a year. As far as maintenance, keep it running with Distilled water and some sort of silver kill coil with *no* other additives, and it will probably be relatively maintenance free as well.

I have no opinion on value blocks for the GPUs, but the Enzotech Sapphire is a great value price CPU block, and a great value RAD is the Swiftech MCR320-QP.

You don't mention what case will be housing all this gear, so that might help you decide if WC will work well for you too.

 

[crazjayz]

So I going to be building a new box, and although I wont be doing any OC, it will be run at 100% load 24/7 and will be quite the heat monster.

I will have 4 GTX295s, and 2x Xeon 5550's(=i7 920) all in one box.

I am think that maybe I should WC this rig, but im not sure where to even start as I have never looked into WC, I have been looking at parts online and I can tell that it can get expensive very quickly.

Yeah, expensive is an understatement, especially if you want the best materials.

The thing though that I am most concerned about is leaks. Does this happen often, or can I set it up and let it run for year and it will be good.
I would prefer something that does not require a lot of maintenance, and im not sure where WC will provide that.

When I had my desktop watercooled, it ran for a year straight with no leaks and no problems. Just make sure you plumb everything correctly and leak test before you put in with your system. From a performance standpoint, you should use either worm clamps or compression fittings to prevent leaking, as they work better than anything else.

Also what are some good value Rads, and Waterblocks?

The major difference with Rads is the amount of air you have to push through them. So while people say something like the HW Black Ice GTX is a "cheap" rad (personally, I think the fit and finish of them are just as good as many other more expensive rads) that doesn't perform well, it's only because they have a high fin density (fins per inch, FPI). Thus, you need to have some high speed fans, around 2000 rpm, to get the best out of that rad. Other rads, like the XSPC XS/Thermochill PA/Feser have lower FPI and are thicker to make up for the lower density. These larger rads perform the best, but you're looking at 3x the price. Comparatively though, you can get away with 1200 rpm fans for more quiet computing.

Personally, I feel that I run a different direction than most people here in suggesting Koolance products. I've had a great experience with them, but I know they command a price premium that's hard to justify since their performance is in line with other high end stuff. I don't know if they're Xeon compatible, but the best out CPU block out there would be the Copper Heatkiller 3.0. As far as a 295 block, the Heatkiller, Koolance, DD, Enzotech, EK, all perform around the same, as far as I know. Just keep in mind for that amount of hardware, you'll be looking at around 9x120 or 12x120 in rads to keep all that cool. So as Delemon said, do you have a case in mind?

 

[nitrobass24]

So as Delemon said, do you have a case in mind?

Not at all.
I would like to keep everything mounted internally though.
I dont want Rads and fans hanging off the side of the case.

 

[crazjayz]

Not at all.
I would like to keep everything mounted internally though.
I dont want Rads and fans hanging off the side of the case.

May I suggest then the Mountain Mods Acension case. It's pricey, but it's one of the few cases that you can fit all this hardware in, with internalized cooling, and still have some room to spare. Call them up for a custom 8-slot back since you'll need that for you 4x 295s.

 

[Zoson]

The major difference with Rads is the amount of air you have to push through them. So while people say something like the HW Black Ice GTX is a "cheap" rad (personally, I think the fit and finish of them are just as good as many other more expensive rads) that doesn't perform well, it's only because they have a high fin density (fins per inch, FPI). Thus, you need to have some high speed fans, around 2000 rpm, to get the best out of that rad. Other rads, like the XSPC XS/Thermochill PA/Feser have lower FPI and are thicker to make up for the lower density. These larger rads perform the best, but you're looking at 3x the price. Comparatively though, you can get away with 1200 rpm fans for more quiet computing.

Personally, I feel that I run a different direction than most people here in suggesting Koolance products. I've had a great experience with them, but I know they command a price premium that's hard to justify since their performance is in line with other high end stuff. I don't know if they're Xeon compatible, but the best out CPU block out there would be the Copper Heatkiller 3.0. As far as a 295 block, the Heatkiller, Koolance, DD, Enzotech, EK, all perform around the same, as far as I know. Just keep in mind for that amount of hardware, you'll be looking at around 9x120 or 12x120 in rads to keep all that cool. So as Delemon said, do you have a case in mind?

HWLabs now has the SR1 series which is 9FPI. I love 'em. Upgraded from HWLabs GTX's. With the same fans(~1400rpm) the SR1's dropped my temps by over 5C on both idle and load.

Koolance is a joke... What reviews are you looking at that show their performance is 'in line' with other high end stuff? Koolance has always been a joke. They were just the first to do 'all in one' easy systems and charge a lot for them.

But yeah none of that really matters. The huge amount of surface area required to dissipate all the heat from a system like that is going to be crazy. 9-12x120 sounds about right.

 

[lollerskater69]

Koolance is a joke... What reviews are you looking at that show their performance is 'in line' with other high end stuff? Koolance has always been a joke. They were just the first to do 'all in one' easy systems and charge a lot for them.

Thanks. I have been pressuring this subject.

I also see that people are starting to catch on to my Enzotech Sapphire raving

OP, I have a suggestion as far as your radiator goes.

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/wamo2pro.html
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/waco2fansh.html

The MO-RA 2 Pro more than likely can handle your heatload with some decent speed fans. Problem is external placement. This is the only component you would have to have outside of your case, but It would prolly be easier to just get one big radiator than three 120.3 rads. Yes, you need the shroud or you can make your own.

 

[Fafeifa]

the mo-ra 2 is very restrictive. I don't think a regular mcp655 pump can handle the radiator plus couple blocks with a decent flow. I'd get something else.

 

[lollerskater69]

yeah well your going to need two pumps for his setup even if you go with x3 120.3 rads

 

[stainremover]

May I suggest then the Mountain Mods Acension case. It's pricey, but it's one of the few cases that you can fit all this hardware in, with internalized cooling, and still have some room to spare. Call them up for a custom 8-slot back since you'll need that for you 4x 295s.

he won't need 8 slots if he gets single pcb 295s - with fc blocks they'll only take up a single slot. will need two pumps though - 6 blocks, minimum 3 rads.

 

[Zoson]

Thanks. I have been pressuring this subject.

Seriously, I can't stand people who say Koolance makes good products or that they perform well. They never offer up any proof. Just look at Koolance's track record and product history in comparison with a company like Swiftech. Koolance set themselves up for the reputation they have - which is that of a bunch of thieves trying to sell inferior products to people for higher prices than the actual performance products.

I also see that people are starting to catch on to my Enzotech Sapphire raving

Looks like a more restrictive Apogee GTZ...

OP, I have a suggestion as far as your radiator goes.

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/wamo2pro.html
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/waco2fansh.html

The MO-RA 2 Pro more than likely can handle your heatload with some decent speed fans. Problem is external placement. This is the only component you would have to have outside of your case, but It would prolly be easier to just get one big radiator than three 120.3 rads. Yes, you need the shroud or you can make your own.

I don't think there's any case that could reasonably hold the number of rads he needs to use for this project.
I would personally suggest he get 3x HWLabs SR1-480's which would get him his 12x120 fans worth of surface area and do it with the least restriction possible.

Still gonna need two pumps though, or something like a hydrothruster.

 

[crazjayz]

he won't need 8 slots if he gets single pcb 295s - with fc blocks they'll only take up a single slot. will need two pumps though - 6 blocks, minimum 3 rads.

Kinda forgot about the video cards being watercooled when I posted that. Regardless, that case is VERY nice.

Seriously, I can't stand people who say Koolance makes good products or that they perform well. They never offer up any proof. Just look at Koolance's track record and product history in comparison with a company like Swiftech. Koolance set themselves up for the reputation they have - which is that of a bunch of thieves trying to sell inferior products to people for higher prices than the actual performance products.

Seriously? The Koolance GPU blocks are just as good as anything else from DangerDen, EK, or Enzotech. I think the HeatKiller block performs SLIGHTLY better, but for the most part all are relatively in line with each other. What's 2-5*C when you're cooling the card by 30*C? As far as CPU blocks to, I already said that it's know that the HK 3.0 block is the best of the business right now, but the Koolance isn't a bad alternative if you can't get the HK block. Hell, even Kyle uses the Koolance block, and has been using it, ever since testing methodology changed to the i7. I don't see complaints from him.

As far as rads go and whatnot, I NEVER suggested Koolance rads. Yeah, sure they my be changing from all aluminum to copper rads now, but their performance is abysmal. As for the rest of the loop, yeah everything else is overpriced, so you can get the pumps, fittings, etc somewhere else.

I don't think there's any case that could reasonably hold the number of rads he needs to use for this project.
I would personally suggest he get 3x HWLabs SR1-480's which would get him his 12x120 fans worth of surface area and do it with the least restriction possible.

Still gonna need two pumps though, or something like a hydrothruster.

I agree, as far as cases go, you're not going to find anything that can hold 12x120. The MM case can if you stack two 3x120s in the rear, or throw one across the top. That's why I suggested MountainMods because they're willing to make the modifications to get the case you want.

And the SR1s are a good call. Didn't know that HW had a low FPI rad.

 

[lollerskater69]

Looks like a more restrictive Apogee GTZ...

Bro, the Sapphire has the best flow of all blocks.

Seriously? The Koolance GPU blocks are just as good as anything else from DangerDen, EK, or Enzotech. I think the HeatKiller block performs SLIGHTLY better, but for the most part all are relatively in line with each other. What's 2-5*C when you're cooling the card by 30*C? As far as CPU blocks to, I already said that it's know that the HK 3.0 block is the best of the business right now, but the Koolance isn't a bad alternative if you can't get the HK block. Hell, even Kyle uses the Koolance block, and has been using it, ever since testing methodology changed to the i7. I don't see complaints from him.

As far as rads go and whatnot, I NEVER suggested Koolance rads. Yeah, sure they my be changing from all aluminum to copper rads now, but their performance is abysmal. As for the rest of the loop, yeah everything else is overpriced, so you can get the pumps, fittings, etc somewhere else.

Um the K350 is terrible for multi-block loops. It is so restrictive that it has shown to increase temperatures in a loop without additional pumping power. Why pay $80 for the K350 when the Enzotech Sapphire or Heatkiller LT before the same or better with less restriction.

 

[crazjayz]

Um the K350 is terrible for multi-block loops. It is so restrictive that it has shown to increase temperatures in a loop without additional pumping power. Why pay $80 for the K350 when the Enzotech Sapphire or Heatkiller LT before the same or better with less restriction.

I guess I didn't take restriction into account. Yeah, it is the most restrictive, so the HK 3.0 is the best buy in this case.

 

[lollerskater69]

I guess I didn't take restriction into account. Yeah, it is the most restrictive, so the HK 3.0 is the best buy in this case.

Well, the Enzotech Sapphire is just about as good at the HK and costs about 30 bucks less. If you aren't a freak about less than a degree's worth of performance I would just grab the Sapphire.

 

[stainremover]

well you have to buy a 1366 adapter w/ the sapphire. i believe the hk3 comes with the adapter these days. just something to consider, i suppose.

 

[Zoson]

Even with two pumps, having 2 cpu blocks, 4 gpu blocks and 3 big rads... He's going to do better with the Sapphire.

Also, newegg has the sapphire in a combo deal with the adapter, which essentially makes the adapter free:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.242363
So cheap I'm tempted to buy one just to try it out... Although I did just get a GTZ for cheap in the xoxide closing sale...
.....
At $35 I couldn't say no... Soon we'll have another GTZ vs Sapphire comparison.

 

[echn111]

+1 for three of crazyjay's recommendations. If you're going for for quad SLI, you are not the target customer for HWLabs. In fact, skip the Swiftech as well as the low end HWLabs and go right for the best high end rads such as Thermochill, XSPC RX or TFC. I'd go XSPC RX but Thermochill is also very good. (And no there's nothing wrong with low end budget rads ok, but let's target the appropriate equipment to the right people. The OP does not look like a budget customer and appears to be able to pay a premium for the best performing WC equipment even if it is overkill. And good quality high end rads are no where close to overkill like 4 x GTX295's anyway)

And yes you should get the heatkiller CPU block as it seems to be the flavour of the month as best performing CPU cooler. There is no other real choice if you just want the best and don't mind paying.

As for mountain mods, I really don't like their looks. But again, I'll have to agree that it is probably ideal for your needs, to house that monster PC of yours and several triple rads.

As for Koolance, I have tracked their progress, and they have actually listened to enthusiasts and really have improved significantly so you can't criticise them like before - but it's still more for people looking at paying a premium for convenience and/or looks. In your case, I'd just get the best rather than go for convenience/looks.

btw: if I were to go for a monster PC today, I'd probably go for new generation GPU's. A rig based on 3 or 4 HD 5870, with it's excellent performance as well as scaling, would likely outperform your 4 GTX 295. But that's a different topic for another forum.

 

[nitrobass24]

btw: if I were to go for a monster PC today, I'd probably go for new generation GPU's. A rig based on 3 or 4 HD 5870, with it's excellent performance as well as scaling, would likely outperform your 4 GTX 295. But that's a different topic for another forum.

Im only going to use nvidia products, because of CUDA

 

[echn111]

Ok. Well four GTX 295's will make for an impressive but also complicated WC build. Probably looking at two loops with one pump each.

I wouldn't worry too much about the GPU blocks - any decent block will do but because you are looking at quad SLI I would only consider "full cover" GPU coolers. Your air flow over the GPU's with four GTX295's will simply not be sufficient to handle non full cover blocks if your system is seriously stressed. I like EK GPU blocks as they perform well and are dependable - but really any decent (copper) full cover block will do including koolance, dangerdan etc. It is not as critical as the CPU block IMHO.

Leaks not not occur if you build and test carefully. And I have found WC'ing to be low maintence if you use quality parts, design your loop properly, test it and assemble it properly. I just replace the liquid once a year or so....

But it's not cheap, takes time/patience to do properly, and imposes restrictions on your flexibility (i.e. when you decide to replace those GTX295's, that's a major operation). And a "monster" build like this is more complicated and isn't normally something for a first time watercooler. It is a challenge, and you will get superior performance and noise levels, but you need to carefully consider the downside of watercooling as well.

 

[crazjayz]

btw: if I were to go for a monster PC today, I'd probably go for new generation GPU's. A rig based on 3 or 4 HD 5870, with it's excellent performance as well as scaling, would likely outperform your 4 GTX 295. But that's a different topic for another forum.

Thanks for the vote of confidence echn111 As far as waiting for next gen cards, I don't know what nitro is exactly planning to do, but for folding the 5870 isn't nearly as good as 295s. But as you said, we can save that for the DC subforum.

Im only going to use nvidia products, because of CUDA

Since you mentioned CUDA, I don't know your timeline, but you may wanna wait until the GT300 cards come out. If the 5870 is any indication, a single GT300 could be just as powerful (will less heat output) than a 295. On top of that, if the GT300 is a single chip card you could probably run more than 4 (depending on the other parts of your rig). Even then, if you still decide to go the 295 route, you can expect their price to drop after the GT300 is released or maybe even just announced.

 

[Zoson]

+1 for three of crazyjay's recommendations. If you're going for for quad SLI, you are not the target customer for HWLabs. In fact, skip the Swiftech as well as the low end HWLabs and go right for the best high end rads such as Thermochill, XSPC RX or TFC. I'd go XSPC RX but Thermochill is also very good. (And no there's nothing wrong with low end budget rads ok, but let's target the appropriate equipment to the right people. The OP does not look like a budget customer and appears to be able to pay a premium for the best performing WC equipment even if it is overkill. And good quality high end rads are no where close to overkill like 4 x GTX295's anyway)

The HWLabs rads are significantly higher performance than any of the rads you listed... The GTX line with high speed fans puts ANY of the low FPI rads to SHAME. The problem is that you HAVE to use high speed fans to get the pressure necessary to push air through the extremely dense fin layout. But flat out, they have more surface area, so they can not be matched in performance.

The SR1 series is HWlab's answer to the rads you listed, and is outperforming all of them now. So there's no reason to buy TFC, Thermochill, or XSPC, as they all are more expensive and perform worse.

And yes you should get the heatkiller CPU block as it seems to be the flavour of the month as best performing CPU cooler. There is no other real choice if you just want the best and don't mind paying.

You've completely missed the fact that he's going to have a ton of stuff in his loop and wouldn't want the restriction that two heatkiller's would add to his loop... So the Sapphire is a significantly better idea in this case.

As for mountain mods, I really don't like their looks. But again, I'll have to agree that it is probably ideal for your needs, to house that monster PC of yours and several triple rads.

As for Koolance, I have tracked their progress, and they have actually listened to enthusiasts and really have improved significantly so you can't criticise them like before - but it's still more for people looking at paying a premium for convenience and/or looks. In your case, I'd just get the best rather than go for convenience/looks.

The K350 performs well... If it's the only thing in your loop... The second flowrate drops off... It's like having a resistive heater sitting on your CPU...

 

[echn111]

Your points noted. And they are good points if he's just building a "box", and putting this in the garage for folding 24/7 or similar, then yes he can just put high speed fans on pretty much any rad and get any reasonable CPU cooler. Personally I'd just stick to air cooling in that case. If he's building a prestige WC monster PC for use as a general computer and going in a normal room, then that's different and he should go for quality parts and noise will be a factor.

 

[Zoson]

Your points noted. And they are good points if he's just building a "box", and putting this in the garage for folding 24/7 or similar, then yes he can just put high speed fans on pretty much any rad and get any reasonable CPU cooler. Personally I'd just stick to air cooling in that case. If he's building a prestige WC monster PC for use as a general computer and going in a normal room, then that's different and he should go for quality parts and noise will be a factor.

'quality' does not mean the parts you listed.
In fact, I consider the parts you listed significantly lower quality than HWlabs stuff. The rads you listed were targeted at a different segment than the original hwlabs rads. The main point here is if you stick a 2500RPM fan on a HWLabs GTX and then stick that same fan on a Thermochill, the HWlabs will DESTROY the thermochill, hands down, by several degrees.

Now Hwlabs has made rads that compete directly with the thermochill/xspc rads with low FPI. Which is what I've been saying all along in this thread. The HWlabs rads are _always_ superior in performance, and _always_ have been for each target segment.

 

[crazjayz]

'quality' does not mean the parts you listed.
In fact, I consider the parts you listed significantly lower quality than HWlabs stuff. The rads you listed were targeted at a different segment than the original hwlabs rads. The main point here is if you stick a 2500RPM fan on a HWLabs GTX and then stick that same fan on a Thermochill, the HWlabs will DESTROY the thermochill, hands down, by several degrees.

Now Hwlabs has made rads that compete directly with the thermochill/xspc rads with low FPI. Which is what I've been saying all along in this thread. The HWlabs rads are _always_ superior in performance, and _always_ have been for each target segment.

Do you have an SR-1 review? I quickly tried searching for one but nothing of substance came up. I know that 3k fans on a 360 GTX will DOMINATE anything you can throw on a TC, Feser, XSPC, etc, but 3k is LOUD. As they say though, there's no replacement for displacement (or in this case FPI). I also agree that HW has some of the best craftsmanship in the industry. Maybe nitro should chime in about how this build will be used and where it will be used.

 

[Zoson]

Do you have an SR-1 review? I quickly tried searching for one but nothing of substance came up. I know that 3k fans on a 360 GTX will DOMINATE anything you can throw on a TC, Feser, XSPC, etc, but 3k is LOUD. As they say though, there's no replacement for displacement (or in this case FPI). I also agree that HW has some of the best craftsmanship in the industry. Maybe nitro should chime in about how this build will be used and where it will be used.

I had 3x PA120.1's, replaced with 3x GTX120.1's and my temps dropped using Enermax Twister fans PWM'd down to 1300RPM. I recently upgraded from the 3x GTX120.1's to 3x SR1-120's and my temps dropped again.

Anyway, I pulled these numbers out of a thread here on the forums at [H]:
---------Ambient--Air Intake--Air Exhaust--Water Inlet--Water Outlet--CPU
GTX360----27.1-----27.4---------29.3--------29.6---------28--------62.5
PA120.3----27.1------27----------29-----------30----------28---------62.1

Here's Idle temps with fans at 100%...

GTX360---27.5------28.25--------29----------29.25------27.75------43.5
PA120.3--27.5-------26.75----28.75--------29.75------27.75-----43.45

And Idle temps with fans at 35%...

GTX360---28.3------28.25-------30.2---------31.25------29.2-------46.2
PA120.3---28.3------28.3--------29.8---------30.3-------28.3-------44.8

You can see that already, the difference between the GTX line and the PA120 line was negligible... Literally the differences are so small, even at low fan speeds that it's easy to interpolate that the SR1 series is better than the PA120 series.

Keep your eyes here:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=230388&page=4
for the first review... It should be out any day now.

 

[punkrockpolak]

Do you have an SR-1 review? I quickly tried searching for one but nothing of substance came up. *snip*

I'd like to know this as well as I was ready to pick up an XSPC 360 for 800-1450rpm fans. Also, I think Koolance has new low FPI rads too, or maybe I saw them and just thought they were new. Any info on those?

 

[punkrockpolak]

Keep your eyes here:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=230388&page=4
for the first review... It should be out any day now.

*edit* Thanks for the link Zoson!

 

[crazjayz]

I had 3x PA120.1's, replaced with 3x GTX120.1's and my temps dropped using Enermax Twister fans PWM'd down to 1300RPM. I recently upgraded from the 3x GTX120.1's to 3x SR1-120's and my temps dropped again.

Anyway, I pulled these numbers out of a thread here on the forums at [H]:
---------Ambient--Air Intake--Air Exhaust--Water Inlet--Water Outlet--CPU
GTX360----27.1-----27.4---------29.3--------29.6---------28--------62.5
PA120.3----27.1------27----------29-----------30----------28---------62.1

Here's Idle temps with fans at 100%...

GTX360---27.5------28.25--------29----------29.25------27.75------43.5
PA120.3--27.5-------26.75----28.75--------29.75------27.75-----43.45

And Idle temps with fans at 35%...

GTX360---28.3------28.25-------30.2---------31.25------29.2-------46.2
PA120.3---28.3------28.3--------29.8---------30.3-------28.3-------44.8

You can see that already, the difference between the GTX line and the PA120 line was negligible... Literally the differences are so small, even at low fan speeds that it's easy to interpolate that the SR1 series is better than the PA120 series.

Keep your eyes here:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=230388&page=4
for the first review... It should be out any day now.

Don't know how this will affect those numbers, but that's some HIGH ambient temp. You're talking about 80*F ambient.

 

[lollerskater69]

The HWLabs rads are significantly higher performance than any of the rads you listed... The GTX line with high speed fans puts ANY of the low FPI rads to SHAME. The problem is that you HAVE to use high speed fans to get the pressure necessary to push air through the extremely dense fin layout. But flat out, they have more surface area, so they can not be matched in performance.

The SR1 series is HWlab's answer to the rads you listed, and is outperforming all of them now. So there's no reason to buy TFC, Thermochill, or XSPC, as they all are more expensive and perform worse.
...

Actually the HW Labs GT Stealth, or GTS line is the best performing radiator with high speed fans. But as you mentioned you have to accompany them 120x38mm high RPM fans.

The SR1's are great and all, but it will never match the price to performance ratio of the BIP or Swiftech's MCR series. For the price of one 120.3 SR1 you can purchase two MCR320's or two BIP III's. These aren't bad radiators at all and almost match the Thermochill PA and XSPC RX radiators within 1c or less. I find that unless you are a freak about that meager 1c or less, everyone should be buying Swiftech MCR's or BIP's. It's the logical desision, but you have those out there that want that 1c factored in. I feel if your going for that you better get a Heatkiller CU and the works on everything else because just like my comparison to the radiators, the Enzotech performs nearly the same with better flow for $35 less.

 

[Zoson]

Actually the HW Labs GT Stealth, or GTS line is the best performing radiator with high speed fans. But as you mentioned you have to accompany them 120x38mm high RPM fans.

How do you figure? The GTX is exactly the same 20FPI and layout, except it's twice as thick... Given the same fans... There's no way the GTS should be able to keep pace with a GTX... I actually own one of the GTS rads, and replaced it mighty quick with a GTX(and replaced again with SR1) once I figured out I could fit one in the space... Wanna buy it? Check my fs/ft thread. I've actually got a handful of rads for sale.

The SR1's are great and all, but it will never match the price to performance ratio of the BIP or Swiftech's MCR series. For the price of one 120.3 SR1 you can purchase two MCR320's or two BIP III's. These aren't bad radiators at all and almost match the Thermochill PA and XSPC RX radiators within 1c or less. I find that unless you are a freak about that meager 1c or less, everyone should be buying Swiftech MCR's or BIP's. It's the logical desision, but you have those out there that want that 1c factored in. I feel if your going for that you better get a Heatkiller CU and the works on everything else because just like my comparison to the radiators, the Enzotech performs nearly the same with better flow for $35 less.

Yeah, it's pretty much impossible to beat the MCR for bang/buck... But in the grand scheme of 3x SR1's vs 3x MCW's... You actually lose a lot of surface area in thickness, and I'd bet the difference would be greater than 1C per radiator... Especially with such a high heatload.

Anyway, I would think that the heatkiller would be cut from his build due to the number of pieces. Especially since he would need *two* of them. That's a full 1GPM loss in flowrate over the Sapphire. Tie that in with 4 gpu blocks, 3 rads, and various bends in your tubing... The heatkiller quickly becomes out of the question.

 

[BillParrish]

OP. keep in mind you are going to have a 1000W space heater going 24x7 wherever you put that machine, WCed or not. Budget for a window AC unit might be needed next spring.

 

[crazjayz]

Yeah, it's pretty much impossible to beat the MCR for bang/buck... But in the grand scheme of 3x SR1's vs 3x MCW's... You actually lose a lot of surface area in thickness, and I'd bet the difference would be greater than 1C per radiator... Especially with such a high heatload.

Anyway, I would think that the heatkiller would be cut from his build due to the number of pieces. Especially since he would need *two* of them. That's a full 1GPM loss in flowrate over the Sapphire. Tie that in with 4 gpu blocks, 3 rads, and various bends in your tubing... The heatkiller quickly becomes out of the question.

I think the main difference between an MCR and a SR-1 (TC, XSPC, Feser) is the size implementation. To compete with those thicker rads, you'll have to run twice the rad area, and then twice the fans to have any appreciable gains with the MCR. The SR-1 is much more appealing when you just have a single place in a case to put a rad with a thickness requirement.

Also, I agree that the HeatKiller should be scrapped. 1) The Sapphire is cheaper 2) The Sapphire is less restrictive 3) Since the OP is running Xeons, it means they'll be stock, so even with the "lower performance" of the Sapphire, it'll see be leaps and bounds over stock air cooling. On another note though, why doesn't the OP just run a single 3x120 for the two CPUs in 1 loop and then a 6/9x120 loop for the GPUs?

 

[Zoson]

I think the main difference between an MCR and a SR-1 (TC, XSPC, Feser) is the size implementation. To compete with those thicker rads, you'll have to run twice the rad area, and then twice the fans to have any appreciable gains with the MCR. The SR-1 is much more appealing when you just have a single place in a case to put a rad with a thickness requirement.

Also, I agree that the HeatKiller should be scrapped. 1) The Sapphire is cheaper 2) The Sapphire is less restrictive 3) Since the OP is running Xeons, it means they'll be stock, so even with the "lower performance" of the Sapphire, it'll see be leaps and bounds over stock air cooling. On another note though, why doesn't the OP just run a single 3x120 for the two CPUs in 1 loop and then a 6/9x120 loop for the GPUs?

I don't think anyone was stipulating how he would distribute the rads/loops, just how many he would need, and the fact that he would need more than one pump.

From there he can do whatever is more convenient for his space. If he can manage two loops... That would definitely be optimal. Otherwise for simplicity sake, a single loop.

 

[lollerskater69]

How do you figure? The GTX is exactly the same 20FPI and layout, except it's twice as thick... Given the same fans... There's no way the GTS should be able to keep pace with a GTX... I actually own one of the GTS rads, and replaced it mighty quick with a GTX(and replaced again with SR1) once I figured out I could fit one in the space... Wanna buy it? Check my fs/ft thread. I've actually got a handful of rads for sale.


Yeah, it's pretty much impossible to beat the MCR for bang/buck... But in the grand scheme of 3x SR1's vs 3x MCW's... You actually lose a lot of surface area in thickness, and I'd bet the difference would be greater than 1C per radiator... Especially with such a high heatload.

Anyway, I would think that the heatkiller would be cut from his build due to the number of pieces. Especially since he would need *two* of them. That's a full 1GPM loss in flowrate over the Sapphire. Tie that in with 4 gpu blocks, 3 rads, and various bends in your tubing... The heatkiller quickly becomes out of the question.

We can draw our information from here:http://www.realredraider.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4924

I know by knowledge that the GTS has a higher fin density than the GTX rads. This is what allows it to dissipate more heat then the GTX rads (With some extremly high speed fans). Thickness doesn't always translate to better temps. Why you have thick rads like the Thermochills and XSPC RX is because the thickness makes up for the loss in fin density. This is more efficient for users seeking a more silent setup and fairs pretty good with high speed fans as well, but won't outperform a high FPI rad with high RPM 120x38mm fans.

The GTX and GTS are one sided rads as you know being an avid user of them, they really only have potential with high rpm fans.

The reason that the MCR series is so successful is because although it isn't as thick as the XSPC and TC rads, is maintains a slightly higher FPI which allows it to keep up with those thicker rads. Swiftech's engineers knew what they were doing when they designed this rad as it is a low cost rad that doesn't get enough recognition. One miniscule degree doesn't matter as you know and like I said if you are going for the SR1 and TC for that tiny little degree I exepct that user to have all the best components (HK, FC Blocks, DDC3.2 w/ top, ect). Just no point in buying other rads when the Swifty does the job just as effectively. It's just like the Enzotech Sapphire vs. HK. Go spend $35 more bucks on the HK for that unmeasurable boost in performance.

And with the addition of the MCR480 to their lineup, it looks like the OP will be able to save some more cash on his setup: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4018078&postcount=1

OP also consider the GTS rads with some high RPM 120x38mm fans.

 

[crazjayz]

OP also consider the GTS rads with some high RPM 120x38mm fans.

This would be ideal if noise is not a concern. Nitro, you wanna chime in here?

 

[nitrobass24]

Well I think im just more confused lol

Im trying to take it all in, but what Im quickly finding out is that WCn is gonna cost almost as much as my parts so Im not too sure.
Also Dont like my Case options.

I would like this to look like a normal(larger) OEM case, not a PC-343b or MMods cube.

So im maybe considering a hybrid aproach using maybe the corsair 800D. I saw a guy put an HX1000 and a 3x120rad in the bottom. This way I could use that to cool 2 of the 295's and the other two would have breathing room using the stock coolers.

I could put on two of TRUE coppers for the CPUs, although that may be too much weight and put pressure on the board because this will be standing up.
So I might go with a Noctua Cooler or a pair of H50s for the CPUs.

This would give me 3 120s pulling air into the Rad on the bottom, 1 pulling in the from the back for 1st h50, 1 pulling in from the top back for the 2nd h50 and two of the top pushing hot air out of the top.
Two 295 pushing air out the back. I would also prob rig up a lian li PCI cooler above the pci slots too blowing air out the back.

 

[nitrobass24]

Honestly have considered getting a Antec 1200 and ripping the drive cages out so the EATX board would fit and mount the CD rom and 2.5in hotswap on the bottom of the case and have a totally air cooled setup too.

And replace thos blue fans....I hate LEDs

 

[crazjayz]

Haha, yeah nitro, WC get's expensive real fast. As an approximation, you'll probably be looking around $1100 (kinda pulled that number outta my ass, but hey, it should be a good ballpark figure). I figure that you say $150 for each 295 ($600 total), then add another $200 for rads, and you're left with $300 for CPU blocks, pumps, and tubing.

I like the idea though of the H50. If you're going to run Xeons at stock speeds (especially if they're the 85W versions) the H50 should do just fine and you can focus on WC the video cards.

 

[lollerskater69]

1,000