FDA Chief Threatens to Take E-cigarettes off the Market

Megalith

Megalith

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“Horrified” at the rapid rise in teen vaping, Food and Drug Administration Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb says he is “about ready” to stop e-cigarette sales and force makers through the formal drug approval process. The tobacco industry has repeatedly been told to stop marketing to teens and advertising candy-flavored products, but words have evidently fallen on deaf ears. “It will be game over for these products until they can successfully traverse the regulatory process.”

There’s little debate that vaping has hit record highs among children and teens. Last November, the figures from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found a 78 percent increase in vaping by high school students, with 3.6 million high school and middle school students now using e-cigarettes. Gottlieb said he has met repeatedly with the vape industry. “I find myself debating with tobacco makers and retailers the merits of selling fruity flavors in ways that remain easily accessible to kids,” he said.
 
You could market it as fart flavored, kids will always do stuff they shouldn't. I don't vape, but I feel like there is a lot of lobbying money going into this push for regulation.

I don't see flavored tobacco being included in on this either, are kids able to even buy e-cigs anywhere in the US under aged?
 
I have been around smokers all my life. My buddy took up vaping and that crap had my lungs hurting after he exhaled once.
 
wizzi01 said:
I have been around smokers all my life. My buddy took up vaping and that crap had my lungs hurting after he exhaled once.
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Then he's got it set up wrong and it's burning.

Vaping is much milder on the throat and lungs than smoking. It also has helped a lot of people quit smoking including many people I know.

The teenage vaping thing needs to be addressed most definitely but I agree with a previous comment about the tobacco industry putting a huge foot in here.
 
What about all of the stupid flavors of vodka? What about the grape and cherry flavored "cigars" at every 7-11?

There are plenty of adults who vape, that don't think they're gandalf with a 200 watt "competition" setup trying to blot out the sun, who the hell cares what they do? Why is it such a big deal if a nicotine product doesn't taste like shit?

Hell, how about addressing the ACTUAL issue which is stores still selling crap to minors?
 
The flavors don't make sense to me. If I can buy flavored tobacco, not really seeing a difference in the vapes. I've also never seen an advertisement? Maybe I'm just not looking in the right places...
I'm assuming you need to be 18 to buy these. If so, enforce the law and parents should enforce their house rules. (I'm going to admit I'm probably out of the loop when it comes to teens - I have a kid in middle school, haven't heard her talk about it ever.)
 
Derfman said:
You could market it as fart flavored, kids will always do stuff they shouldn't. I don't vape, but I feel like there is a lot of lobbying money going into this push for regulation.

I don't see flavored tobacco being included in on this either, are kids able to even buy e-cigs anywhere in the US under aged?
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It doesn't matter, people will get it and do it because it's illegal, telling someone not to push the little red button is only going to entice them to do it, telling teens what to do never went well.....

How about letting it go already if they don't find it trendy or fun, they will stop. The US has a crap ton of problems because they keep trying to tell people what they can and or cannot do, instead of treating people like adults and informed citizens with choices.

The other half of it is like smoking cigarettes, as certain places have overregulated where and when a person can smoke claiming it's bad for everyone's health, the issue is that they won't regulate what they do or put in with the tabbacco instead. It's not ok to smoke but it's more than ok to let 75% of the nation abuse alcohol every week.

People drive cars that purely spit rainbows and puppydogs out the exhaust, naw that isn't the major cause of cancer in urban areas smoking is(sarcasm).

I'm not condoning smoking or tabbacco products, many people have died to abuse of smoking cigarettes and have died with it as a contributing factor ......

My point is people over do it and jump to nonsensical conclusions a cancer specialist nose, throat, lungs at Penn. That is a close acquaintence of mine is currently silently conducting a study and charting smoking % versus cancer patients in affected areas, as he states it's not healthy by any means, but he wonders about the actual conclusive data thus far they have produced has been lacking and speculative at best, his assertion is that when the tabbacco industry took the rap for cancer it was a cover up for an already crippled auto market, I mean if the surgeon general said Cars are causing lung cancer Detroit would have been further SOL then they already were and in all likelihood tabacco could survive the onslaught where auto manufacturers couldn't. His research is partially based on a medical journal from 1996 that stated sitting in traffic with your windows down for 45mins a day was doing harm equal to smoking 3 cartons of cigarettes a week.

It's food for thought, possible but not probable but still worth the research.
 
Derfman said:
You could market it as fart flavored, kids will always do stuff they shouldn't. I don't vape, but I feel like there is a lot of lobbying money going into this push for regulation.

I don't see flavored tobacco being included in on this either, are kids able to even buy e-cigs anywhere in the US under aged?
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They can buy the esigs, but not the packages, but they are really easy to get and much easier to hide from parents and the such.
 
steakman1971 said:
The flavors don't make sense to me. If I can buy flavored tobacco, not really seeing a difference in the vapes. I've also never seen an advertisement? Maybe I'm just not looking in the right places...
I'm assuming you need to be 18 to buy these. If so, enforce the law and parents should enforce their house rules. (I'm going to admit I'm probably out of the loop when it comes to teens - I have a kid in middle school, haven't heard her talk about it ever.)
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Enforcing is a bit difficult on the parents. Vapes don't smell like cigarettes do, and the kids don't typically vape in front of their parents. :) If you have a middle-school kid, I would highly recommend talking about it now before its too late.
 
I assume vaping leaves some smell on the person? Maybe not as much as cigarettes do, but something? Yeah that's literally the easiest way for parents to catch kids.
 
steakman1971 said:
The flavors don't make sense to me. If I can buy flavored tobacco, not really seeing a difference in the vapes. I've also never seen an advertisement? Maybe I'm just not looking in the right places...
I'm assuming you need to be 18 to buy these. If so, enforce the law and parents should enforce their house rules. (I'm going to admit I'm probably out of the loop when it comes to teens - I have a kid in middle school, haven't heard her talk about it ever.)
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You can buy an eSig at any age, just not the refills. But they are easy to get and working in elementary schools and high schools the kids are bombarded with the adds all over we are looking at better add blocking but it’s getting hard as more sites add anti add blocking measures it makes it hard for kids to get legitimate research done with them on. But not a week goes by that I don’t have a parent or teacher shitting all over me for one of their kids seeing an add for it even with all the safe search and various filtering we have in place.
 
Coming from a former smoker of 30 years (i quit 4 years ago) that quit with vaping , which was the only thing that worked for me, I find it so ironic that they go after vaping when big tobacco pumps so much money into the FDA and their lobbyists. Tobacco has all ways and will still be marketed at teens no matter what they do . See they want you addicted to their products at a early age that will kill you while you pay them to do it! At least with vaping you can step down on your nic level, you cant do that with cigs.
 
sfsuphysics said:
I assume vaping leaves some smell on the person? Maybe not as much as cigarettes do, but something? Yeah that's literally the easiest way for parents to catch kids.
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Not really. Unless you think you're going to catch someone vaping half an hour ago because they might have a faint strawberry smell or something else still on them. It's not like cigarettes at all where an hour later someone still smells like an ashtray from 10 yards.
 
These fuckers need to get off my shit! I don't give a fuck about the kids!

Used to smoke close to a pack a day and these fuckers want me to go at it again by taking away my vaping. Fuck that shit, these fuckers and vaping is bad for kids, tide is bad for kids too let get Gronk to say "vaping bad me no like, you no vape."
I remember all the bullshit these fuckers have been pulling to stop vaping sales and it is on a federal level WE the fucking people have no say in this shit, fucking cigarette lobbying companies are probably paying to shut the market down so it has a high entry level so they can be the only game in town and cash this cow and my tax money is going to help them :mad:.
 
dfedders said:
Enforcing is a bit difficult on the parents. Vapes don't smell like cigarettes do, and the kids don't typically vape in front of their parents. :) If you have a middle-school kid, I would highly recommend talking about it now before its too late.
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The other day my wife informed me that she was contacted by our sons teacher informing us that they caught two kids smoking outside during recess. The following day my other sons teacher contacted me that they found cigarettes and a lighter in a students backpack. The only reason this kinda blows my mind is that my kids are in 3rd/4th grade...
 
focbde said:
Then he's got it set up wrong and it's burning.

Vaping is much milder on the throat and lungs than smoking. It also has helped a lot of people quit smoking including many people I know.

The teenage vaping thing needs to be addressed most definitely but I agree with a previous comment about the tobacco industry putting a huge foot in here.
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Cranky1970 said:
Coming from a former smoker of 30 years (i quit 4 years ago) that quit with vaping , which was the only thing that worked for me, I find it so ironic that they go after vaping when big tobacco pumps so much money into the FDA and their lobbyists. Tobacco has all ways and will still be marketed at teens no matter what they do . See they want you addicted to their products at a early age that will kill you while you pay them to do it! At least with vaping you can step down on your nic level, you cant do that with cigs.
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did you both quit for real or replace cigarettes with vaping while still getting your nicotine fix? There is a big difference there. If you just swapped out one for the other you didn't really quit. You went from one form to another. No more than somebody switching from 2 cans of coke a day to 5 glasses of good old fashion southern sweet tea a day cut sugar out of their diet.

I see the problem here being that vaping is being advertised to people as being far safer than normal cigarettes, or in some cases being said to be 100% safe. You even have the companies that just sell flavored oils for people to "smoke" so you are encouraging people to use the devices. Which I see as a say to get younger people to start doing it as nobody in their 50s+ rushing out to buy fruit flavors or things like cotton candy, gummy bear, bubble gum, peppermint or other candy flavored oils. So I don't see an issue with them being treated 100% the same way as cigarettes. They aren't being pulled off the market forever, they just want to make it so that they have to be regulated through the FDA the same as what tobacco itself would be so would be pulled and forced to through the approval process to get back on the market. For anyone not doing anything wrong that shouldn't be an issue and they should be back on the market pretty quickly.
 
Big tobacco are losing business on vaping because informed vapers don't use their products (which are mostly garbage and normally have higher tobacco content then smaller companies). The "teen vaping epidemic" is a smokescreen to enforce strict regulations that smaller businesses can't afford to keep up with. It's a shitty position because lobbying gives them (big tobacco) governmental power to wipe out competition that has products that are safer and can be used for cessation that actually works for some when other methods fail.

I used to smoke half a pack a day as a mental health vice for overbearing stress (long story; not the best solution, but it worked for me); I felt shitty being active and spent way too much to keep it up. Three years ago I spent a few weeks on research and switched to vaping; now, I'm feeling much better while being even more active, I don't smell like the back room of a dive bar, and spend less than a quarter of what I use to to hang onto the vice (still haven't found a better solution that works for me). It's a better alternative to smoking when done right, and tobacco companies don't care about doing it the right way, if they did they wouldn't be throwing the shit-fit they are now.
 
Exavior said:
did you both quit for real or replace cigarettes with vaping while still getting your nicotine fix? There is a big difference there. If you just swapped out one for the other you didn't really quit. You went from one form to another. No more than somebody switching from 2 cans of coke a day to 5 glasses of good old fashion southern sweet tea a day cut sugar out of their diet.

I see the problem here being that vaping is being advertised to people as being far safer than normal cigarettes, or in some cases being said to be 100% safe. You even have the companies that just sell flavored oils for people to "smoke" so you are encouraging people to use the devices. Which I see as a say to get younger people to start doing it as nobody in their 50s+ rushing out to buy fruit flavors or things like cotton candy, gummy bear, bubble gum, peppermint or other candy flavored oils. So I don't see an issue with them being treated 100% the same way as cigarettes. They aren't being pulled off the market forever, they just want to make it so that they have to be regulated through the FDA the same as what tobacco itself would be so would be pulled and forced to through the approval process to get back on the market. For anyone not doing anything wrong that shouldn't be an issue and they should be back on the market pretty quickly.
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You may have a wrong way of viewing it as well. While vaping is still a method of nicotine delivery, the method of vaping has less then 5% the level of carcinogens of smoking tobacco, once you account for poisons and fertilizers as well you start to understand how much less of an impact on health it has. Some flavor additives are not safe to use, but a large portion of the reputable small production market will not use them because they recognize health concerns and promote healthy alternatives to smoking. There have also been concerns about the metals "gassing off", but no scientific studies have made any conclusive findings on health implications.

The difference between smoking and vaping is more like fossil fuels vs. electric; battery cells still require elements that aren't replenishable, but the overall environmental impact isn't as harsh (not accounting for how the electricity is generated).
 
Skull_Angel said:
You may have a wrong way of viewing it as well. While vaping is still a method of nicotine delivery, the method of vaping has less then 5% the level of carcinogens of smoking tobacco, once you account for poisons and fertilizers as well you start to understand how much less of an impact on health it has. Some flavor additives are not safe to use, but a large portion of the reputable small production market will not use them because they recognize health concerns and promote healthy alternatives to smoking. There have also been concerns about the metals "gassing off", but no scientific studies have made any conclusive findings on health implications.

The difference between smoking and vaping is more like fossil fuels vs. electric; battery cells still require elements that aren't replenishable, but the overall environmental impact isn't as harsh (not accounting for how the electricity is generated).
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And that is where both arguments fall apart.
 
RealBeast said:
Wait, what?

Smoking dope is fine, no FDA approval needed -- but vaping needs approval?

This is one F'd up government that we have here.
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What are you talking about? Marijuana is illegal at a federal level. Some states have made various changes at a state level, but the federal government still bans it and considers using it a criminal offense.
 
Derangel said:
What are you talking about? Marijuana is illegal at a federal level. Some states have made various changes at a state level, but the federal government still bans it and considers using it a criminal offense.
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Not in Canada...
 
TangledThornz said:
I can't stand the people, mainly neckbeards and hipsters, that vape so I'm OK with this.
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So there's nothing that you enjoy that I can arbitrarily say I don't like and just take it away from you? Grow up. If said neckbeards and hipsters are 18+ they can buy/vape/suck on whatever they want. You saw what happened long ago during the prohibition days... if you one day take away smoking from John Q public, you are going to have a civil war on your hands. Little history lesson: Tobacco has been used by native americans as early as 1 B.C... it's a world wide thing, and while smoking rates are on the decline from people becoming more health conscious it's not going away anytime soon.

Vaping help me quit smoking... and I feel 1000X better now that I don't smoke.
 
Skull_Angel said:
You may have a wrong way of viewing it as well. While vaping is still a method of nicotine delivery, the method of vaping has less then 5% the level of carcinogens of smoking tobacco, once you account for poisons and fertilizers as well you start to understand how much less of an impact on health it has. Some flavor additives are not safe to use, but a large portion of the reputable small production market will not use them because they recognize health concerns and promote healthy alternatives to smoking. There have also been concerns about the metals "gassing off", but no scientific studies have made any conclusive findings on health implications.

The difference between smoking and vaping is more like fossil fuels vs. electric; battery cells still require elements that aren't replenishable, but the overall environmental impact isn't as harsh (not accounting for how the electricity is generated).
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So if we ignore half the data for one side we can make a claim and say it is 100% factual. Lets look at your example, once you factor in pollution and environmental damage by making batteries and then factor in the population created by power plants, you have added in more pollution to the overall side in order to get your electric call and have it drivable. Now that doesn't mean that overall when comparing everything for both sides that there isn't still an imbalance, but you have to compare apples to apples.

Going back to your original statement. From what I have seen (which is limited since I don't smoke or vape), the levels of carcinogens actually change based on the device and what you are using. For lower voltages devices the levels are lower, however for higher voltages devices the levels rise a lot and you are not much better off. PG-based oils It has to do with the carrier fluid that transfer the flavor (and nicotine) and how it burns. Which actually makes me wonder then if nicotine free would still carry the same health issues from the carcinogens such as formaldehyde as I assume the carrier fluid is still there. As for saying a large percent won't use something due to heath concerns, then why are kids starting to use them to begin with period as everyone knows the heath risk of them. So you are missing something there. The true safe way to stop smoking is the patch as you aren't inhaling anything into your lungs, next would be vaping but that isn't 100%. But when looking at the reverse and the best option to start for a non smoker, not doing it period is the best option.

TonyZ said:
Not a smoker of anything, but if they take e-cigs off the market then they need to do the same for ALL smoked tobacco products.
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They are saying that they might pull them off the market as unregulated and only allow ones that pass FDA regulations to be on the market. So they will still sell them, nothing really changes other than you have to follow FDA rules. Which means that you can't market to kids or sell to kids, can't play down any health risk.... They would follow tall the exact same rules as all smoked tobacco products making them all equal in the eyes of the US government. ​
 
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