Falling Out in VR

FrgMstr

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Bethesda just released a video with an interview showcasing the experience of Fallout 4 in VR. That said, I have yet to see any flat-screened video that truly showcased the VR experience. I am however very much looking forward to spending some time in and around Diamond City for sure.

Check out the video.

Fallout 4 VR has been a powerhouse at every convention where it’s been demoed, with hundreds of eager attendees lining up to get up-close-and-personal with the Commonwealth and all of its inhabitants. Fallout 4 VR even won Best VR Game award at Gamescom this year. But what makes it so S.P.E.C.I.A.L? We spoke to Lead Producer Andrew Scharf about crafting the ultimate VR experience for Fallout 4 and how it feels to actually be inside this incredible world.
 

RogueTadhg

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I can't wait for this to come out. It looks like it'll be a Must-Have VR Title.

Hopefully it'll be Rift compatible, they showed the game using the Vive controllers though.
 

SilverSliver

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The floating guns are not very immersive. I'd like to see hand holds there. It seems like he's just waving his guns about randomly in the general direction of what he wants to shoot and pulling the trigger. If you want to hit something in VR with a gun, it makes sense you would need to get on target with iron sights or a scope/dot, and not just wave the gun around pulling the trigger.
 

NickJames

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The floating guns are not very immersive. I'd like to see hand holds there. It seems like he's just waving his guns about randomly in the general direction of what he wants to shoot and pulling the trigger. If you want to hit something in VR with a gun, it makes sense you would need to get on target with iron sights or a scope/dot, and not just wave the gun around pulling the trigger.
Most of these PR trailers are shown with the POV stabilized because in reality(lol) VR is very jerky and the motion would make anyone watching the trailer sick.
 

SilverSliver

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Most of these PR trailers are shown with the POV stabilized because in reality(lol) VR is very jerky and the motion would make anyone watching the trailer sick.
It doesn't seem like POV stabilization. If you look at the part where he has a pistol, it's literally just blading and jerking across the screen gangster style and shooting. At no point did he aim down one of the guns. Then he starts talking about teleporting. I guess that's a new VATS skill. Don't get me wrong, VR seems cool, this just seems like a slightly polished first person mode with head tracking.
 

Sonicks

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The floating guns are not very immersive. I'd like to see hand holds there. It seems like he's just waving his guns about randomly in the general direction of what he wants to shoot and pulling the trigger. If you want to hit something in VR with a gun, it makes sense you would need to get on target with iron sights or a scope/dot, and not just wave the gun around pulling the trigger.
If you've played VR shooter titles, it's actually not that hard to aim without iron sights. You sort of know where to point and shoot unless you're trying to hit something really far away. Not to mention that adds a good bit of reality to how shooting and aiming is in a quick bind.
 

SilverSliver

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If you've played VR shooter titles, it's actually not that hard to aim without iron sights. You sort of know where to point and shoot unless you're trying to hit something really far away. Not to mention that adds a good bit of reality to how shooting and aiming is in a quick bind.
Yeeah...That's not how it works. I do some 3 gun shooting, tactical pistol and a variety of shotgun sports and you are definitely, at least, looking down the barrel and getting on target regardless of range. The only time I've ever 'shot from the hip' was doing retention shooting drills with a pistol at targets within arms reach.
 
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Sonicks

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Yeeah...That's not how it works. I do some 3 gun shooting, tactical pistol and a variety of shotgun sports and you are definitely, at least, looking down the barrel and getting on target regardless of range. The only time I've ever 'shot from the hip' was doing retention shooting drills with a pistol at targets within arms reach.
Well if you want to be a super accurate marksman in VR, then yeah I see your point. But having logged more than a few hours on RoboRecall I can tell you that aiming down the sights isn't required nor is it very helpful considering the amount of bad guys coming at you. In that game, holding the gun up to at least eye level, but not lining up the sights, works fine but very rarely is looking down the sights for a good shot necessary. I think the game has something of an auto aim where tolerances are a little loose around the targets though.

Edit: needed to add that I've been speaking within the context of VR and not how to shoot a real gun as it seems my message was misinterpreted.
 
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dergreg

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Yeeah...That's not how it works. I do some 3 gun shooting, tactical pistol and a variety of shotgun sports and you are definitely, at least, looking down the barrel and getting on target regardless of range. The only time I've ever 'shot from the hip' was doing retention shooting drills with a pistol at targets within arms reach.
I'm with you. I definitely look where I'm shooting by moving my head instead of just moving my eyes around; I imagine they're using the footage they did just to prevent the demo video from being too difficult to track. If you watch, they miss an awful lot. It's not intuitive to play like that unless you're playing something that requires spreading your attention around multiple objects simultaneously with a pray and spray approach.
 

SilverSliver

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Well if you want to me a super accurate marksman, then yeah I see your point. But having logged more than a few hours on RoboRecall I can tell you that aiming down the sights isn't required nor is it very helpful considering the amount of bad guys coming at you. In that game, holding the gun up to at least eye level works fine but very rarely is looking down the sights for a good shot necessary.
It's not being a super accurate marksman. If you point a pistol at a target 5 feet away without looking down the sights - you won't hit a man sized target. Now, if that goal is not virtual reality but head tracking arcade style shooter, that's fine. Don't call it VR. It's not any semblance to the reality of trying to shoot anything.

It's like loading up Battlefield 1 and the game trying to explain to you that bayonets on rifles were used as throwing spears. I mean, I guess you could try to do that, but it's not the right way.
 

Sonicks

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It's not being a super accurate marksman. If you point a pistol at a target 5 feet away without looking down the sights - you won't hit a man sized target. Now, if that goal is not virtual reality but head tracking arcade style shooter, that's fine. Don't call it VR. It's not any semblance to the reality of trying to shoot anything.

It's like loading up Battlefield 1 and the game trying to explain to you that bayonets on rifles were used as throwing spears. I mean, I guess you could try to do that, but it's not the right way.
Well, we are on the topic of VR here.

I get that you have real world experience with firearms but these games aren't representative of what it actually takes to fire a real weapon. Again, using RoboRecall as an example, it seems like the target area is very lenient and I would imagine they'd have to be otherwise every person that hasn't shot a real weapon would suck at these games.

Dead and Buried on the Rift works the same way as RoboRecall. I'd wager that almost every title with shooting elements will have loose tolerances because otherwise, again, they wouldn't be very fun for the general non-gun-firing gamer base.

Think the takeaway for VR is the feeling of being a badass that can shoot. They aren't training sims for real firearms.
 

Domingo

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What kind of horsepower does it take to run a game like this in VR anyway?
 

NickJames

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Yeeah...That's not how it works. I do some 3 gun shooting, tactical pistol and a variety of shotgun sports and you are definitely, at least, looking down the barrel and getting on target regardless of range. The only time I've ever 'shot from the hip' was doing retention shooting drills with a pistol at targets within arms reach.
With nearly 100 hours in VR shooters and maybe 20 hours at an actual range I can tell you that the two are completely different. Real life shooting skills barely translates to VR games. There's little incentive to precisely aim and fire because enemies are coming at you too quickly. Once you hip fire your gun a few times you can tell where shots are being placed by hit indicators and decals. It becomes almost second nature to just hip fire everything rather than try aiming.
 

SilverSliver

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With nearly 100 hours in VR shooters and maybe 20 hours at an actual range I can tell you that the two are completely different. Real life shooting skills barely translates to VR games. There's little incentive to precisely aim and fire because enemies are coming at you too quickly. Once you hip fire your gun a few times you can tell where shots are being placed by hit indicators and decals. It becomes almost second nature to just hip fire everything rather than try aiming.
Yeah I understand that. But why? It seems like it would be easy to have a 'controller' that was a pistol or a rifle and a game properly designed to use real shooting techniques. I'd buy a VR setup tomorrow if I could do that.
 

NickJames

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Yeah I understand that. But why? It seems like it would be easy to have a 'controller' that was a pistol or a rifle and a game properly designed to use real shooting techniques. I'd buy a VR setup tomorrow if I could do that.
Just no point I guess. Sure you "could" take your time to aim for a headshot but since ammo is infinite and doesn't cost real money, it's easier to just spray and pray. Maybe if there was a more realistic survival game where ammo was scarce and taking the time to aim for a critical kill would be more useful. The most realistic shooting game on VR right now is Hotdogs, Horseshoes and Hand Grenades. It offers a full range simulation with weapons and their attachments but it's just a range simulation so no enemies to shoot at.

*EDIT* Actually there's a full blown milsim VR shooter than I remember seeing videos for a long time ago but never got to try it.
 

Dan_D

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Yeeah...That's not how it works. I do some 3 gun shooting, tactical pistol and a variety of shotgun sports and you are definitely, at least, looking down the barrel and getting on target regardless of range. The only time I've ever 'shot from the hip' was doing retention shooting drills with a pistol at targets within arms reach.
Precisely.

Well if you want to be a super accurate marksman, then yeah I see your point. But having logged more than a few hours on RoboRecall I can tell you that aiming down the sights isn't required nor is it very helpful considering the amount of bad guys coming at you. In that game, holding the gun up to at least eye level, but not lining up the sights, works fine but very rarely is looking down the sights for a good shot necessary. I think the game has something of an auto aim where tolerances are a little loose around the targets though.
That's not how things work with actual firearms. RoboRecall, whatever the hell that is seems to be anything but realistic if this is your viewpoint.

It's not being a super accurate marksman. If you point a pistol at a target 5 feet away without looking down the sights - you won't hit a man sized target. Now, if that goal is not virtual reality but head tracking arcade style shooter, that's fine. Don't call it VR. It's not any semblance to the reality of trying to shoot anything.

It's like loading up Battlefield 1 and the game trying to explain to you that bayonets on rifles were used as throwing spears. I mean, I guess you could try to do that, but it's not the right way.
Agreed.

With nearly 100 hours in VR shooters and maybe 20 hours at an actual range I can tell you that the two are completely different. Real life shooting skills barely translates to VR games. There's little incentive to precisely aim and fire because enemies are coming at you too quickly. Once you hip fire your gun a few times you can tell where shots are being placed by hit indicators and decals. It becomes almost second nature to just hip fire everything rather than try aiming.
I understand the difference, but that tells me there is no "reality" in the VR game if that's how it works.
 

NickJames

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I understand the difference, but that tells me there is no "reality" in the VR game if that's how it works.
That's the thing, no matter how immersed we are we're still disconnected. There's no physical object that we're holding that represents the true feeling of a firearm so it's easier to just wave a light wand around. There's no recoil or kickback so we don't feel like we have to control the weapon. The headgear is bulky and we can't exactly put a gun against our eyes to get a better shot on a long range target. Either there's too much or a lack of hardware between us and the virtual world.
 

Sonicks

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I understand the difference, but that tells me there is no "reality" in the VR game if that's how it works.
Not yet. Surely a developer can just as easily make a realistic shooting sim. The technology is not the limiting factor here.

What seems to be going on, as I've mentioned, is that the shooters that exist on VR right now are not simulations because they're just programmed to be downright fun to play and give the sensation of being a badass.

By the way, my viewpoint on this isn't that VR is realistic. It's the opposite. You can't compare your real world firearm experience to VR games because at the end of the day they are just games. Don't get too hung up on the 'reality' part of VR because it's not trying to simulate our reality, it's taking you to a different one.
 

SilverSliver

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That's the thing, no matter how immersed we are we're still disconnected. There's no physical object that we're holding that represents the true feeling of a firearm so it's easier to just wave a light wand around. There's no recoil or kickback so we don't feel like we have to control the weapon. The headgear is bulky and we can't exactly put a gun against our eyes to get a better shot on a long range target. Either there's too much or a lack of hardware between us and the virtual world.
You could use a rifle that could be shouldered and not interfere with the headset. Heck, you could even do something to simulate a very light recoil impulse if you wanted to go the next step. And you would definitely feel like a badass by just doing it right.
 

Hagrid

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What kind of horsepower does it take to run a game like this in VR anyway?
It seems mostly video. So far I have not heard anything really about not having enough cpu power. Probably because the resolution it's running is higher.
Also if you are buying VR you most likely have enough to afford a decent cpu anyways. My 980ti OC runs the Rift fine.(1070 equal)
 

percydaman

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I don't know why they wouldn't just project a reticle or something onto whatever you're 'aiming' at so that you don't have to worry about minute accuracy issues.
 

ecmaster76

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I don't know why they wouldn't just project a reticle or something onto whatever you're 'aiming' at so that you don't have to worry about minute accuracy issues.
They kind of did that for the build mode controls

For weapons I think a laser sight would do the trick. Presumably this will be just as mod friendly as ever, worst case

I haven't gotten around to FO4 yet but VR might be just the ticket
 

FrgMstr

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Just no point I guess. Sure you "could" take your time to aim for a headshot but since ammo is infinite and doesn't cost real money, it's easier to just spray and pray. Maybe if there was a more realistic survival game where ammo was scarce and taking the time to aim for a critical kill would be more useful. The most realistic shooting game on VR right now is Hotdogs, Horseshoes and Hand Grenades. It offers a full range simulation with weapons and their attachments but it's just a range simulation so no enemies to shoot at.

*EDIT* Actually there's a full blown milsim VR shooter than I remember seeing videos for a long time ago but never got to try it.
https://www.hardocp.com/article/2016/09/07/amd_nvidia_gpu_vr_performance_onward_milsim/
 

Comixbooks

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Seems like a Natural fit for the series being the pip boy and all the other stuff with the game.
Not sure how fun it would be after a few hours though at least VR is getting a game with some depth.
 

Dan_D

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Not yet. Surely a developer can just as easily make a realistic shooting sim. The technology is not the limiting factor here.

What seems to be going on, as I've mentioned, is that the shooters that exist on VR right now are not simulations because they're just programmed to be downright fun to play and give the sensation of being a badass.

By the way, my viewpoint on this isn't that VR is realistic. It's the opposite. You can't compare your real world firearm experience to VR games because at the end of the day they are just games. Don't get too hung up on the 'reality' part of VR because it's not trying to simulate our reality, it's taking you to a different one.
I understand that, what I mean is that the appropriate middle ground doesn't sound like it has been achieved. A VR game should provide the basic feel of shooting, but factors like ballistic drop, recoil impulses and even hit boxes should be adjusted to be more forgiving the way they are in video games. I don't like the description of the gun and how it behaves in the game in question, based on what others have said. I can't see the videos as I'm at work. So that's what I'm going off of.
 

Aireoth

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You know I feel this whole 'its not like real shooting' thing is dumb. The reality here is not the tech keeping it from being like real shooting (except for lacking haptic feedback) the reality is these are still video games, and no game I've ever played gets shooting real.

Shooting in games is designed to be fun, scaling accuracy with down sight, hip and scope fire to keep game play smooth and fast.

Shooting in real life is nothing like any of that, as anyone that has fired real guns can tell you, its hard as hell to hit what your shooting at and take a lot of training, add in the adrenaline of an active fire situation and many skilled marksmen miss plenty of shots. This is why shit like arming teachers to prevent school shootings is just a terrible idea as the reality is they are more likely to hit bystanders than the active shooter without a ton of training.

don't get me wrong, I think there is a place for realistic shooting sim, but it won't be Fallout or any other traditional game, because it would be impossible for the gamer.

Edit: To make my point, I pulled a few stats, in Vietnam the US army fired approximately 50,000 rounds per kill, during the war on terror it has been as high as 250k. There are reasons for this, as above its not easy to hit someone, particularly moving, at range, and in combat. Also there is military strategy at work here commonly called 'weight of fire'.
 

Sonicks

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I understand that, what I mean is that the appropriate middle ground doesn't sound like it has been achieved. A VR game should provide the basic feel of shooting, but factors like ballistic drop, recoil impulses and even hit boxes should be adjusted to be more forgiving the way they are in video games. I don't like the description of the gun and how it behaves in the game in question, based on what others have said. I can't see the videos as I'm at work. So that's what I'm going off of.
I'm not quite doing it justice, really. True hip firing is not really possible without missing a whole bunch at first but holding out your arm at eye level works well enough without needing to precisely line up a shot with the sights. I do believe that a middle ground has been achieved, at least with the game RoboRecall and Dead and Buried. Maybe even videos might not do it justice but I'm sure if you have the chance to play it you would be satisfied with how the gun play mechanics work.

I've not shot real firearms in a while, and even then my experience was limited, so it's definitely not the same but the basic feel is there. It's just more video gamey and oh so satisfying since the developers didn't go too overboard with the forgiving mechanics.
 
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odditory

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Not yet. Surely a developer can just as easily make a realistic shooting sim. The technology is not the limiting factor here.

What seems to be going on, as I've mentioned, is that the shooters that exist on VR right now are not simulations because they're just programmed to be downright fun to play and give the sensation of being a badass.

By the way, my viewpoint on this isn't that VR is realistic. It's the opposite. You can't compare your real world firearm experience to VR games because at the end of the day they are just games. Don't get too hung up on the 'reality' part of VR because it's not trying to simulate our reality, it's taking you to a different one.
Stated perfectly. Nitpicking the shooting mechanics is missing the larger point, which is that this is a huge step for VR, since it's an AAA title and the VR space is sorely lacking those due to the ROI not being there yet for big publishers.

Its a vicious cycle of big publishers hanging back and waiting for the VR space to establish itself before they jump in, but it can't fully establish itself without big publishers.

Bethesda should be lauded for breaking the cycle.

Progress, not perfection.
 
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oROEchimaru

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I'm in the crybaby "I miss the roleplaying aspects of fallout vegas!"

to me I played fo4 a couple times now and I always lose the magic of fo3 and fonv. I'm praying for a fonv2 would be awesome.
 

davethehedgehog

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I'm super looking forward to this. Is it still going to be a free add on for Fallout 4? Or reasonably priced?

I have fallout 4 and to be honest after about an hour I was bored. I'm hoping playing it in VR is going to increase the immersion so I can see what all the fuss is about!
 

MavericK

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Just no point I guess. Sure you "could" take your time to aim for a headshot but since ammo is infinite and doesn't cost real money, it's easier to just spray and pray. Maybe if there was a more realistic survival game where ammo was scarce and taking the time to aim for a critical kill would be more useful. The most realistic shooting game on VR right now is Hotdogs, Horseshoes and Hand Grenades. It offers a full range simulation with weapons and their attachments but it's just a range simulation so no enemies to shoot at.
Not quite, there are some enemy robots you can spawn in the Arena in H3VR. Also has other modes that go beyond range simulation.
 

Sonicks

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I'm super looking forward to this. Is it still going to be a free add on for Fallout 4? Or reasonably priced?

I have fallout 4 and to be honest after about an hour I was bored. I'm hoping playing it in VR is going to increase the immersion so I can see what all the fuss is about!
From what I've seen it's not an add-on if you currently own the game. It would be it's own stand-alone with a $60 price tag.

I'm with ya on the game though, I keep trying to come back to it but can never really get in the groove. If it ends up being compatible with the Rift I'll give it another shot in VR for sure.
 

HeadRusch

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I'm super looking forward to this. Is it still going to be a free add on for Fallout 4? Or reasonably priced?

I have fallout 4 and to be honest after about an hour I was bored. I'm hoping playing it in VR is going to increase the immersion so I can see what all the fuss is about!
It's full priced, no discounts have been announced for prior owners of F4 on PC, and when I went to watch the video I fast forwarded about a dozen times and each time I wound up looking at what appears to be the locals at my neighborhood bar all chatting wearing headsets. #DISAPPOINT.
 

davethehedgehog

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It's full priced, no discounts have been announced for prior owners of F4 on PC, and when I went to watch the video I fast forwarded about a dozen times and each time I wound up looking at what appears to be the locals at my neighborhood bar all chatting wearing headsets. #DISAPPOINT.
Ahh well, at least I'm not playing the same game twice then in that case. Still, it seems a shame, perhaps a reduced priced addon would have been better. As it stands, if it's a whole new game, given my experience of the last one, I think I'd just wait until it's either discounted or reviews say it's a game that can't be missed.
 

CombatChrisNC

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What kind of horsepower does it take to run a game like this in VR anyway?
1070 at a minimum. Close to paired with a 980ti IIRC.


And now my question: would one need to purchase FO4 in both VR and non-VR on Steam? Would it potentially be built into the upcoming FO4 GOTY due out soon?

EDIT: AWWW SUMBITCH. Found the answer higher up.
 

zalazin

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Too bad it won't be available on PSVR I won't buy a Vive too many issues. And Rift I had would not let me use my glasses so it went back.
 

Hagrid

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Too bad it won't be available on PSVR I won't buy a Vive too many issues. And Rift I had would not let me use my glasses so it went back.
You should try them both and see if it will let you use your glasses. I know I can use my Rift with glasses. I am sure the Vive should as well. Only 1 way to tell!!
 
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