FAA Investigating Teen That Made The Gun-Firing Drone

Ruoh

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
5,858
Once law abiding good people no longer have means to defend their families, how do you propose getting all the guns from the criminals and gangs in the illegal/stolen gun business?
It's cute how you gun nuts always run back to the "but think of the children!" scenario.
 

DocSavage

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 18, 2002
Messages
2,409
fail to see the issue, US has been using drones overseas to kill civilians for years, why make a fuss now

lol
If gun drones turn out to be legal, they could make a nice little home defense security system add-on.
 

Riccochet

Fully [H]
Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Messages
23,955
It's cute how you gun nuts always run back to the "but think of the children!" scenario.
And you liberals don't? Bwahahaha!

If it only saves just one child. Spare me the bullshit. Lol
 

wizzi01

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
2,686
Considering they enforce (harr harr harr) on a federal level laws covering firearms depending on how they interpreted the gray area two different felonies and a large fine.

Also because it is in CT you've got some funky laws that can come up, and the whole state park (and I don't know if he was policing his brass) thing might also get pushed.
What grey areas? Is there a law against remotely operating a firearm? This to me is the same thing as hooking a string to the trigger and firing from a ways away to test a firearm. Also, the atf doesn't enforce state or local laws.
 

Ur_Mom

Fully [H]
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
20,269
Research & Development. Sure, he should have done it in a privately owned area, but for testing things like this, I have no issue. A lot of things that were dangerous were created in someone's garage and tested in a field somewhere.

Of course, there will always be someone, somewhere that will want to do nefarious things with their new invention/research. But, that's the case with anything. Laser gun, Hyperalloy Synergetic Quantum Entanglement field, Bob's Burgers.... Can't just tell people to stop inventing shit. That's the basis of human civilization. People invented the wheel, the axle... They went on to create the car, which kills a lot...
 

XViper

Gawd
Joined
Aug 24, 2012
Messages
837
I don't understand why everyone is so up in arms about this. He didn't invent this for some nefarious reason. He was just trying to see if it could be done and he proved it. I think it's pretty cool he thought it up but the government will just make it illegal.
 

McFry

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 25, 2011
Messages
1,715
Because freedom isn't anymore.

It's TRIVIAL to put a gun on a RC quadrotor these days.

Big quad rotor... check.
Gun... check.
Simple solenoid to fire it... check.
Hell, hooking up a digital scope to be your flight camera is also amature work now.

The gov is now going to try to unsuccessfully regulate making something that anyone technologically inclined could build on their kitchen counter. (No machine shop needed)

How is that worth our trouble?

Once again it's a matter of responsibility. If someone kills someone with one of these, or shoots someone, or recklessly discharges the firearm... WE HAVE LAWS FOR THAT.
Wow, I didnt realize how easy it was. What about building a drone yourself?

Buy propeller....check
Buy motor..... check
Hook propeller up to motor.... check
You have a drone now! Anyone can do it!
 

weebling1

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 31, 2002
Messages
2,233
Think realistically about this. OK so what a person gets a RC vehicle and attaches a gun to kill someone. Sounds like an amazing idea right, everyone is so scared, OMG its the perfect murder. But realistically this is even more overblown than the obsessions people had with xbone spying. In any murder you have evidence and if you want to get away with it you don't want a trail of evidence. You could go get a rifle of which there are millions and just shoot someone from a distance. You could pack a handgun and do it from a shorter range and just try to do it when you are unlikely to get caught. Or you could come up with a ridiculous plan to use a "drone". The problem with your plan is you now have isolated yourself as a primary suspect because the reality is everyone in the town is going to know who that guy who flys the drones is or who is buddy is or whomever is technically inclined enough to pull it off. Even if they don't you still are going to have to plan this out extremely well in order to make sure you cover all your tracks and none of the drone or parts are traceable. Because drones are much less common than and noticeable than just using a handgun. And I didn't even touch on the possibility that you will simply screw this up and miss. Oh and if you were thinking of using the element of surprise this loud flying thing might not work. It's also worth mentioning if you want to commit a murder its a really good idea to increase your odds of getting away with it by making sure no one finds the murder weapon. Well now you got a problem because your drone has to be disposed of too which is probably bigger, and harder to get rid of and even more noticeable. Meanwhile none of you blink at the fact that you are most likely to get killed by a car, nope you are going to run out and jump in your car tomorrow. Instead we freak out about the extremely remote chance that someone is going to murder our useless selves with a gun strapped onto a drone.
I got tired 1/2 way thru, so murder plot#1:

Fly drone to victim's door at night. Ring doorbell. Shoot. Fly away. (evidence left: shell casing*prints?*,) Recover drone at park/ball field/etc. Take drone to river or lake. Sink it deep. Wipe controller and dispose at Mall - random commercial dumpster.

Bets on first occurrence date?
 

Methadras

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 19, 2000
Messages
6,132
Yes, it's great to wait around until someone gets killed or maimed to react rather than proactively addressing the problem. I'm sure if someone you cared about was killed by a kid with an RC toy he stuck a gun onto, you'd be upset that no one addressed this issue until after the fact when a life is already lost.
Are there enough strawmen in this thread to use at Burning Man?
 

Methadras

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 19, 2000
Messages
6,132
Oh I totally don't think it'd happen overnight. Getting people out of the "must own a gun to feel safe" mindset and also at the same time taking them off the streets and out of the hands of criminals would be a long process that would have to start with making sure all legally owned firearms are gathered and recycled into something more useful first and that alone would be a big deal because of people who are so skittish about it (like the Texans that were reportedly burying their guns out of fear of them being taken away during an unrelated military exercise). I'm thinking attrition over time is the only realistic way to approach it and even that's not gonna be a 100% solution. Just like how in more intelligent, better nations, there are still occasional gun-related violence things happening, the US will hafta deal with that for many years to come, but seizures and stuff will fix it over time and slowly shift culture away from the outdated gun owning societal problems we have now.
Advocating tyranny couched as altruism. Gosh, I wonder where I've seen that before. I really wish you'd get hit by a bus, so maybe one or two people on here can gloat with some schadenfreude about how it wasn't with a gun and ask for bus bans.
 

Methadras

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 19, 2000
Messages
6,132
The number of instances where a person can benefit from having a safely stored firearm to stop a home invasion is really, really low. Nevermind the number of home invasions in total being super low to begin with so I doubt that there'll be a meaningfully significant change in those demographics during the time period when we're adjusting. Its just that sort of thinking in general that has to get addressed and changed at a basic cultural level to clear the US of broken, outdated thinking that's largely based on biased sources of information that prey on male insecurities.

Anyhow, I'm okay with most of the amendments, but there's really nothing about the 2nd one that I think changed or benefited people in a meaningful way. Of course, that's water under the bridge and unless you have a time machine so we can go back in time and tell those people that they can't write stuff that implies citizens can maintain a dangerous NBC stockpile, we won't be able to measure the differences beyond armchair speculation.
I wonder where your buffoonery ends? Please, don't let me stop you.
 

Methadras

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 19, 2000
Messages
6,132
low is a subjective value.

luckily, if you don't feel comfortable with a firearm in your home, you don't have to have one.
Missing the obvious that the he doesn't have to exercise his 2nd, but would rather vanquish it for everyone else who chooses to.
 

bexamous

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
1,670
Wow, I didnt realize how easy it was. What about building a drone yourself?

Buy propeller....check
Buy motor..... check
Hook propeller up to motor.... check
You have a drone now! Anyone can do it!
... uh yeah you should try building one, if you don't want it to look pretty you can have it together in an afternoon.
 

bexamous

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
1,670
I got tired 1/2 way thru, so murder plot#1:

Fly drone to victim's door at night. Ring doorbell. Shoot. Fly away. (evidence left: shell casing*prints?*,) Recover drone at park/ball field/etc. Take drone to river or lake. Sink it deep. Wipe controller and dispose at Mall - random commercial dumpster.

Bets on first occurrence date?
Why don't you just: Walk to victim's door at night. Ring doorbell. Shoot. Run away.

Also GL ringing door bell with a quad, that'll be 1000x harder than using some tape to attach a gun to a quad. I imagine you'd just have some fing-longer:
and then spend next hour trying to press the button.
 

rudy

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 4, 2004
Messages
8,687
I got tired 1/2 way thru, so murder plot#1:

Fly drone to victim's door at night. Ring doorbell. Shoot. Fly away. (evidence left: shell casing*prints?*,) Recover drone at park/ball field/etc. Take drone to river or lake. Sink it deep. Wipe controller and dispose at Mall - random commercial dumpster.

Bets on first occurrence date?
See its obvious you didn't read or comprehend my post. Otherwise you wouldn't be making such ridiculously simple assumptions. The first of which is that the finger prints even matter, gloves have been around for a very long time you have no reason to leave finger prints on anything. The problem is you have now doubled the number of murder accessories that can be used to track you down. Controller, drone, gun, bullets. Any one of those could be the one they nail you with. Not even mentioning that unless you fit it with a silencer don't you think people in the area are going to notice if they hear gun shots then hear or see a drone flying away.

None of this even addresses the fact that the simple act of regulating drones carrying guns will not do jack shit to stop a criminal from making one illegally anyway.
 

d_stilgar

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 7, 2004
Messages
438
I wonder if there's an auto-lock thread script for when posts start coming in above a certain rate per hour.
 

CreepyUncleGoogle

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
6,871
Advocating tyranny couched as altruism. Gosh, I wonder where I've seen that before. I really wish you'd get hit by a bus, so maybe one or two people on here can gloat with some schadenfreude about how it wasn't with a gun and ask for bus bans.
It's typical for guys who feel their viewpoint is threatened to try to demonize someone they think is a threat and then wish their problems were solved through violence. *head pats* Sometimes, the inability to think rationally never does fully develop and that's perfectly okay.
 

lcpiper

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 16, 2008
Messages
10,611
This drone is clearly out of FAA jurisdiction.
Flying a drone that low does not give FAA the right to prosecute anyone.
Trespassing? Maybe. Gun ownership violation? There's a chance. Discharging of firearm in non-approved location? Possible.
Other organizations could well prosecute, but the FAA has no beef in this case.
No it isn't. It's the FAA that classified that drone as a recreational UAS to begin with. man, people always talking out their ass about shit they know nothing about. First of all, the altitude a UAS is operated at has nothing at all to do with FAA jurisdiction.

Go educate yourself.
http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/pilot_handbook/media/PHAK%20-%20Chapter%2014.pdf
 

Converge

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 4, 2005
Messages
1,254
So many great classic liberalidiotic comments. Fucking love it. Did one guy even try to pull the "you're more likely to get killed by your own gun" card? Why yes, yes he did. Hysterical.

Please, if you feel like you're a murderous hate filled suicidal idiot then please stay away from firearms. Fortunately, the large majority of people who own guns respect them and respect safety. Your "statistic" is completely bogus and has been proven so, probably from more than a few sources.

I'm surprised that none of the freedom haters have pulled out the racist pedophilia card yet. You know, that typical tirade that they fall back on after spewing false statistics and multiple insults. It's the one where they accuse everyone who disagrees with them of being racist pedophiles, of course. Man I wish I hadn't said anything, I'm sure we would have seen it pretty soon.

And yes, even though I didn't once say the word child I guess I am just taking advantage of the children to get my point across when referencing people defending their life with firearms.

You know, that's actually a good idea. Maybe we should go thank the countless parents that are still alive because they shot a home invader while cornered, protecting their children. I've got at least A dozen different stories coming to mind from the past year or two (only a very small fraction of all incidents) where mothers in particular used a firearm to defend their and their child/children.

Let's get some type of organization going that can gather all these poor souls in one large arena so we can explain to them that it would have been a lot better for the nation if they didn't have a firearm when those nightmarish incidents happened. We can lecture them and let them know that for the greater good they should have let themselves be raped and murdered.

While we're at it lets start up a campaign of TV ads directed to every young woman who avoided being raped because of a concealed carry permit. We can convince them that next time they should just let themselves get raped to the point where they wouldn't ever be able to have children. See, there you go! The children! It's actually a great idea, I can see why all the freedom haters and liberals like to use it so much.

Better yet, let's just flat out execute every single person that is alive today because of a firearm. Isn't that what you want? Obviously if some of you got your way those people are better off dead. Maybe we can hire some of you guys to inform them in person.
 

CreepyUncleGoogle

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
6,871
So many great classic liberalidiotic comments. Fucking love it. Did one guy even try to pull the "you're more likely to get killed by your own gun" card? Why yes, yes he did. Hysterical.

Please, if you feel like you're a murderous hate filled suicidal idiot then please stay away from firearms. Fortunately, the large majority of people who own guns respect them and respect safety. Your "statistic" is completely bogus and has been proven so, probably from more than a few sources.

I'm surprised that none of the freedom haters have pulled out the racist pedophilia card yet. You know, that typical tirade that they fall back on after spewing false statistics and multiple insults. It's the one where they accuse everyone who disagrees with them of being racist pedophiles, of course. Man I wish I hadn't said anything, I'm sure we would have seen it pretty soon.

And yes, even though I didn't once say the word child I guess I am just taking advantage of the children to get my point across when referencing people defending their life with firearms.

You know, that's actually a good idea. Maybe we should go thank the countless parents that are still alive because they shot a home invader while cornered, protecting their children. I've got at least A dozen different stories coming to mind from the past year or two (only a very small fraction of all incidents) where mothers in particular used a firearm to defend their and their child/children.

Let's get some type of organization going that can gather all these poor souls in one large arena so we can explain to them that it would have been a lot better for the nation if they didn't have a firearm when those nightmarish incidents happened. We can lecture them and let them know that for the greater good they should have let themselves be raped and murdered.

While we're at it lets start up a campaign of TV ads directed to every young woman who avoided being raped because of a concealed carry permit. We can convince them that next time they should just let themselves get raped to the point where they wouldn't ever be able to have children. See, there you go! The children! It's actually a great idea, I can see why all the freedom haters and liberals like to use it so much.

Better yet, let's just flat out execute every single person that is alive today because of a firearm. Isn't that what you want? Obviously if some of you got your way those people are better off dead. Maybe we can hire some of you guys to inform them in person.
Wow, emotional control isn't a thing-y for you huh? :eek: You should work trying to stay calm.
 

Converge

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 4, 2005
Messages
1,254
Plus, it's not like nearly every nation that has banned or nearly banned guns, like the UK, doesn't have a higher violent crime rate per capita then then the U.S. Cause that would just be crazy... It would be crazy if all those gun control happy nations had more crime. That would really not make any sense!

Oh wait....
 

Converge

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 4, 2005
Messages
1,254
Wow, emotional control isn't a thing-y for you huh? :eek: You should work trying to stay calm.
Absolutely, when people as idiotic as you spew fucking nonsense it pisses me off and makes me want to blow of steam because it's sickening the lack of intelligence you clowns demonstrate
 

Converge

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 4, 2005
Messages
1,254
And the best part is that unlike some of the liberal tools I've had the pleasure of meeting i still don't wish pain or suffering on anyone that disagrees with me, unlike them.
 

CreepyUncleGoogle

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
6,871
Absolutely, when people as idiotic as you spew fucking nonsense it pisses me off and makes me want to blow of steam because it's sickening the lack of intelligence you clowns demonstrate
Well, if you want nonsense that badly, you should read Converge's post about crime in the United Kingdom which might be more of an indication of a lack of intelligence based on the idea of making claims unsupported by facts.

Plus, it's not like nearly every nation that has banned or nearly banned guns, like the UK, doesn't have a higher violent crime rate per capita then then the U.S. Cause that would just be crazy... It would be crazy if all those gun control happy nations had more crime. That would really not make any sense!

Oh wait....
The US ranks far higher in violence in general.

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/United-Kingdom/United-States/Crime

And the best part is that unlike some of the liberal tools I've had the pleasure of meeting i still don't wish pain or suffering on anyone that disagrees with me, unlike them.
Who's liberal? Why do people always assume there's some kind of political party associated with a view they disagree with or that someone wants them to be in pain? I don't see any of that in this thread so I don't think there's much of a reason to play the victim card and the person you're most upset about (me) doesn't really align to a political ideology at all...well maybe I sort of like the idea of a monarchy, but I think what we have in the US is okay. In fact, I occasionally write letters to my representatives if I want them to hear my opinion on something. Not many people who complain a lot about politics or governmental injustice take the time to do even that. They prefer to be upset and complain to other people without actively using the existing political process to do something beneficial. Do you?
 

Ruoh

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
5,858
Absolutely, when people as idiotic as you spew fucking nonsense it pisses me off and makes me want to blow of steam because it's sickening the lack of intelligence you clowns demonstrate
It's not a lack of intelligence. You justify it your way, those that disagree justify it differently.
 

weebling1

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 31, 2002
Messages
2,233
See its obvious you didn't read or comprehend my post. Otherwise you wouldn't be making such ridiculously simple assumptions. The first of which is that the finger prints even matter, gloves have been around for a very long time you have no reason to leave finger prints on anything. The problem is you have now doubled the number of murder accessories that can be used to track you down. Controller, drone, gun, bullets. Any one of those could be the one they nail you with. Not even mentioning that unless you fit it with a silencer don't you think people in the area are going to notice if they hear gun shots then hear or see a drone flying away.

None of this even addresses the fact that the simple act of regulating drones carrying guns will not do jack shit to stop a criminal from making one illegally anyway.
Well I did state that in my first sentence :rolleyes:
Of course fingerprints matter. On a dry run you attempt to ID and remove errors.
If the evidence is clean how do they tie you to it?
Police to neighbor, "Can you ID the race, gender, weight & height of the drone?" HA
Hell, why even use a gun? All you need is a barrel, a butt block, a firing pin, and a live round.
 

rudy

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 4, 2004
Messages
8,687
Well I did state that in my first sentence :rolleyes:
Of course fingerprints matter. On a dry run you attempt to ID and remove errors.
If the evidence is clean how do they tie you to it?
Police to neighbor, "Can you ID the race, gender, weight & height of the drone?" HA
Hell, why even use a gun? All you need is a barrel, a butt block, a firing pin, and a live round.
You have clearly never seen how investigations happen outside of phony movies. The more custom and unusual shit you do the more things you are going to trip up on, the more people know about the guy who does that kind of stuff. Its a game of odds and coming up with a rube Goldberg mechanism leaves a bigger trail of evidence but its obvious at this point you just don't understand those basic principles and never will.
 

weebling1

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 31, 2002
Messages
2,233
You have clearly never seen how investigations happen outside of phony movies. The more custom and unusual shit you do the more things you are going to trip up on, the more people know about the guy who does that kind of stuff. Its a game of odds and coming up with a rube Goldberg mechanism leaves a bigger trail of evidence but its obvious at this point you just don't understand those basic principles and never will.
Sure I do.
Just like our bomb disposal teams in Iraq and Afgan can ID a bomb maker by the parts and configurations, repeated attemps create a detectable pattern.

The only sure way to win is not to play.
 

lcpiper

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 16, 2008
Messages
10,611
Actually there is more going on there then just the construction of the devices. but if you already know about what you mentioned, then you already know what I am talking about as well.
 

iRevert

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
470
What grey areas? Is there a law against remotely operating a firearm? This to me is the same thing as hooking a string to the trigger and firing from a ways away to test a firearm. Also, the atf doesn't enforce state or local laws.
Sorry for the delay, but when threads turn political and heated I tend not to check them as often. However you are correct they don't deal with state or local, but they can influence if charges are pressed through those routes.

It actually has to do with DD/AOW/Form 1 classification and while this does not meet the listed items there for the past year or so been a lot of talk in pushing for a DD/AOW classification for things such as this (the platform). If you follow the BATFE any you know just how decisive on things they are one day to the next but it wouldn't surprise me if they came out and pushed for it. The Form 1 part comes from the actual firing mechanism and how it works or moreso how it could work.

A safety block with cord on it used as a remote firing device doesn't fall anywhere near that but you'll notice that you rarely see solenoid/microswitch driven firing devices because it falls into this gray area where the BATFE could come down on it depending on what it is connected to and what the intent is. In the past "spring gun" has been used as the classification to try and go after people but again its this really gray area where the legality depends on who you're asking and what law books you are looking at. It could potentially be seen as something you'd need a form 1 for depending on who you pissed off. Even the super sub moa clubs using plunger actuated or solenoid rigs when asked about the legality of it are shaky on details and they all follow a fairly cut and dried basic set of rules to stay safe about it. Even the EtronX runs afoul of some questionable gray areas due to the ability to modify programming and ROF, that's why it went into a bolt action because you started to hit some nasty gray area. Because you're dealing with a non-single shot or bolt action you start hitting that gray area really fast and the waters are really muddy and up to interpretation on what is legal and what is not. I think the saving grace and possibly if they did come after him would be how it was hooked up and limitations in that regard vs a sled rig without an actual trigger.

Finally and this one I'm not as familiar with but I believe there is a law on the books for "internet hunting" in many states, while I don't know if CT has one as I'm not from there I do know many states (14+) have them on the books and most of them forebay even firing a weapon through an "internet" connections. While this one isn't a BATFE specific one I figured I'd toss it in as it is something that people need to consider as even if they conducted a review of the case they might influence local entities to press charges based on that to deter further cases such as this.

TL:DR - Gray area comes from both the rig and how the rig operates as well as laws being stupid and convoluted.
 

MavericK

Zero Cool
Joined
Sep 2, 2004
Messages
29,823
And the best part is that unlike some of the liberal tools I've had the pleasure of meeting i still don't wish pain or suffering on anyone that disagrees with me, unlike them.
What the fuck are you even talking about?
 

lcpiper

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 16, 2008
Messages
10,611
The charges have nothing to do with the drone, but stem from an incident last Sunday and a physical altercation with officers, the Clinton police department said.

He was arrested on Wednesday evening after being asked to turn himself in on an outstanding warrant.

Police said he refused to submit to arrest and that he hit and kicked at two officers "repeatedly".

As a result he was charged with two counts of assault and a single count of interfering with an officer.

The arrest warrant also charged Haughwout with interfering with an officer and failure to obey an officer's signal.

He appeared in court on Thursday and posted a $20,000 bond.
So this brilliant thinker had an outstanding warrant and thinks laying low is over rated :D
 

Ruoh

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
5,858
So this brilliant thinker had an outstanding warrant and thinks laying low is over rated :D
With that kind of personality, and the capability of building a flying handgun... what could possibly go wrong.
 

sliverjazz

Gawd
Joined
Jun 9, 2004
Messages
747
The criteria for holding a person in an institution has changed DRASTICALLY since the mid to late 90s. The criteria for even using shackles/restraint has changed DRASTCIALLY and/or is gone altogether.
 
Top