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Lepardi vRAM isn't everything...But downgrading from 1080 Ti 11GB to 8GB memory isn't a good proposition
Going from 11gb to 10gb isn't either. A 10gb card will basically be limited to next gen console graphics, if games are using 10gb plus for the next gen consoles one is not going to improve the graphics with a 10gb card in general. Nvidia makes sure there is obsolescence built in. 12gb would be better if one upgrades generation to generation but still that to me would be the low side. 16gb is probably slightly overkill but one will not have to worry about games running out of vram probably for 3-5 years.
It's funny, my non-techie friends will still value a card by it's ram amount.Lepardi vRAM isn't everything...
I hate to tell you this, but the days of 'PC games are moah bettah' is over. Games are made to sell tens (if not hundreds) of millions of copies, and the only way to do that is to design for Consoles. They get ported over, later, to PC just to eek out whatever remaining profit they can from a title (c.f. RDR2, et.al.).Going from 11gb to 10gb isn't either. A 10gb card will basically be limited to next gen console graphics, if games are using 10gb plus for the next gen consoles one is not going to improve the graphics with a 10gb card in general. Nvidia makes sure there is obsolescence built in. 12gb would be better if one upgrades generation to generation but still that to me would be the low side. 16gb is probably slightly overkill but one will not have to worry about games running out of vram probably for 3-5 years.
Seems likely to be a combination of factors. Demand is sky high. Even back in April/May it was hard to find 20XX series cards.Anyone know what the supply constraint is? Is it just huge demand, or is samsung having trouble with yields or has too little fab capacity? something else?
Part of that was the rush to have something to do at home - people upgrading/buying new systems for the beginning of the pandemic. Just like when we couldn't find CPUs or motherboards for a long time (hell, you still can't get an x570 tomahawk without scalping or killing someone). AMD x570 boards were impossible to find, the 10980XE was unobtanium, etc. Part of the reason I went with ThreadRipper was it was easy to get whatever parts you want - $700 motherboards don't sell fast, nor do $1400 CPUs.Seems likely to be a combination of factors. Demand is sky high. Even back in April/May it was hard to find 20XX series cards.
20XX series is TSMC and 30XX is Samsung so either both fabs are having capacity problems or the demand is very high (or all above).Seems likely to be a combination of factors. Demand is sky high. Even back in April/May it was hard to find 20XX series cards.
"porting over" isn't really an issue since everything has moved over to x86 last gen and this gen. You don't have to emulate hardware anymore.I hate to tell you this, but the days of 'PC games are moah bettah' is over. Games are made to sell tens (if not hundreds) of millions of copies, and the only way to do that is to design for Consoles. They get ported over, later, to PC just to eek out whatever remaining profit they can from a title (c.f. RDR2, et.al.).
Where we PC gamers can rejoice - at least for the next little while - is that MS and Sony have created consoles that are pretty durn good, and PC-like. That (esp. for XBone titles) will make porting over to PC a bit easier, and maybe faster. Further, games like 'Fartnite', by being multi-platform and profitable have actually increased the likelihood of what would be Console-exclusives being made PC Ready during development - even if we get a game that looks like it could be played on a phone / ipad... we'll still have access.
PC games have become more popular and profitable and developers have been paying more attention to their PC versions than they have in over a decade, we're even seeing many historically console exclusive titles make their way to PC recently. More importantly even if they didn't offer extra graphical options for PC which they do the console experience also includes lower resolution and/or framerates than most here would find acceptable.I hate to tell you this, but the days of 'PC games are moah bettah' is over. Games are made to sell tens (if not hundreds) of millions of copies, and the only way to do that is to design for Consoles. They get ported over, later, to PC just to eek out whatever remaining profit they can from a title (c.f. RDR2, et.al.).
Where we PC gamers can rejoice - at least for the next little while - is that MS and Sony have created consoles that are pretty durn good, and PC-like. That (esp. for XBone titles) will make porting over to PC a bit easier, and maybe faster. Further, games like 'Fartnite', by being multi-platform and profitable have actually increased the likelihood of what would be Console-exclusives being made PC Ready during development - even if we get a game that looks like it could be played on a phone / ipad... we'll still have access.
PS5's GPU is exactly 1/2 of a 6800xtSort of off topic but how come a brand new PS5 PlayStation 5 you can get a Best Buy for $399, which includes the AMD graphics chip inside of it of course plus all the other stuff the memory the game controller everything that comes along with the council in the box.
My point you got a whole gaming system for $400 bucks.
But high end graphics cards cost almost double that and all you get is just that one component you still need to put it inside a PC with all the other stuff memory hard drive motherboard case power supply etc
I guess my point is it is pretty amazing for 400 bucks you get a whole council gaming system and for 800 bucks you just get one video card one part to a PC gaming rig.
And I'm a PC gamer Don't even own any councils or like them but starting to think we're getting ripped off being PC guys.
The 5700xt is a mid-range card from the last generation making it equivalent to the low end cards that haven't been released yet, I would consider that a good level for a current budget gaming pc build. I guess that depends on what someone considers a budget gaming pc, currently I wouldn't consider any $200 GPU for a new build though you could get by with one at 1080p. Consoles are a good deal at launch for the performance level you get but they're always over hyped in that regard and the comparison even more in favor of PC between console gens.A GPU like that will likely cost $350-$400. Which is the cost of a PS5, disc drive-less version. And actually, right this moment, that GPU doesn't exist. So you have to either buy a 5700xt for $400 and miss out on some features or a 2070super for $500. @Ebernanut, that means the PS5 is not "budget" PC and won't be compared to one, for some time. A "budget" PC is when you are spending under $200 on a brand new GPU. Even if you were spending $200----the PS5 and XSX GPUs are equivalent to GPUs costing twice that (or more, in the case of Nvidia).
How long will we have to wait to get the new $350 - $400 cards? Right now, the cards generally equivalent in performance to the consoles are the 5700XT which is not at features parity, for $400. Or the 2070 super, which is currently a mystery because its drastically inflated. But if it were at its normal price----well that just got replaced by the 3070. So the 2070s should be lowered in price. But its not.The 5700xt is a mid-range card from the last generation making it equivalent to the low end cards that haven't been released yet, I would consider that a good level for a current budget gaming pc build.
And in the end, that ~$400 only gets you a graphics card. Not an entire, functioning system like the PS5. and that's the point. You won't be able to build a $400 PC which competes with a PS5, for some time. PS5 and XSX level of performance in a PC GPU will come down in price in a few months, when new products are released. yes (assuming availability). One can assume that a 36cu RDNA2 PC card, would be $300-$350. That still is not "budget". Its still just a card. And you still will not be able to build an entire, more or less equivalent system, for the price.
response like these always puzzle me. This only applies to people with already have custom PCs.A bit like we do not tend to put the cost of a tv in the cost of a new console because most people would have a tv anyway, the same is often true for a gaming pc most potential buyer would have some form of a pc (it some case it would have been a tablet, laptop instead but sometime a desktop) anyway the question becoming do a put $200 more in said PC and a video card or go for a console. The scenario do I build a hole PC just for gaming that I will plug on a TV to play games or do I get a playstation to plug on the same TV must exist yes, but is not necessarily the common one, how much do I upgrade the PC I have to do web browsing/email/etc... is probably more common.
Exactly (thus why console are quite popular), the cost for those people of a gaming PC would be the difference between what they bought instead of one (IPAD/prebuilt) and a PC able to game. But if we assume about everyone working from home does it with a PC like device, that a lot of people. Say they are working on a $650 PC like device excluding monitor, if they would have went for a capable of gaming PC instead that difference is what it would have "costed them"response like these always puzzle me. This only applies to people with already have custom PCs.
most people don't even have desktops nowadays. And those who do are often using a prebuilt like a dell or Lenovo, which probably doesn't have a PCIE slot. will have a non-standard case size. Would need a power supply upgrade for a $400 GPU. And that power supply likely won't fit.
upgrading the household PC is not something you can count on.
And what the F is nVidia saying about all this? NOTHING. That's pretty ballsy for them to ignore this, like nothing's wrong.
The chance of a household having a TV that will just work with a console are *much* higher than a household having a PC that has a power supply and case that can fit a GPU that they are comfortable doing themselves. It's not really a valid comparison. Most people who can afford a gaming system have already bought a TV... not near as many will have a desktop that's upgradable. So I would argue there are likely more costs associated with a GPU purchase than a console purchase in general. This is why people often don't include the cost of the TV, because most people buying a console already have a TV. A lot of people buying GPU's do not have a PC already and are either building or buying a pre-built. This may not be true for you and I, but we are the exceptions to the norm .A bit like we do not tend to put the cost of a tv in the cost of a new console because most people would have a tv anyway, the same is often true for a gaming pc most potential buyer would have some form of a pc (it some case it would have been a tablet, laptop instead but sometime a desktop) anyway the question becoming do a put $200 more in said PC and a video card or go for a console. The scenario do I build a hole PC just for gaming that I will plug on a TV to play games or do I get a playstation to plug on the same TV must exist yes, but is not necessarily the common one, how much do I upgrade the PC I have to do web browsing/email/etc... is probably more common.
Damn impossible to buy a 3000 series card in Canada. I personally know 2 other people who have even heard of a 3080/3070.
Super frustrating, but it’s not like my 2070 Super is junk. The Radeon 6950 Toxic in my daughter’s computer is long in the tooth though and she’s set up to get the RX580 in my second system as soon as I can manage to land a new 6000 or 3000 series.
Ryzen 5000 and Radeon 6000 are going to be impossible to get too, I can feel it.
edit - damn impossible for someone who doesn’t live in the GTA next to a Canada Computers or Memory Express store and has a full time job that involves not standing in a line for a product unless it’s food and we just got nuked or something.
AMD will sell out because nVidia flubbed so badly they created a vacum and AMD is only geared for supplying 1/5th the market (their normal user base).I wonder if we will hear the "there was plenty of stock, but we weren't anticipating this much demand" explanation from AMD if they sell out, like we heard from Nvidia. Everyone says there will be more stock than Nvidia's launch, but that's not saying much.
I wonder if it will be available long enough for a normal human being to look at a few cards, think about it, do a google search, add to cart, take a sip of coffee, login and enter payment info, like a normal purchase.
I would expect AMD to have some level of confidence in their endeavors, if they had the attitude of "Nvidia killer", if, with the confidence that goes along with it then they should have Nvidia levels of supply. Not saying they will. I do expect that they procured a higher quantity of GPUs than their previous endeavours. Anyways a great opportunity to gauge AMD's responsiveness to changing market conditions. Their integration of their CPU business to enhance the GPU business to support each other should help sell both more. Meaning if they have confidence in that also, they will procure more foundry space to go along with that. I am thinking of Lisa Su as more like a Steve Jobs, maybe smarter as well.AMD will sell out because nVidia flubbed so badly they created a vacum and AMD is only geared for supplying 1/5th the market (their normal user base).
I would expect AMD to have some level of confidence in their endeavors, if they had the attitude of "Nvidia killer", if, with the confidence that goes along with it then they should have Nvidia levels of supply. Not saying they will. I do expect that they procured a higher quantity of GPUs than their previous endeavours. Anyways a great opportunity to gauge AMD's responsiveness to changing market conditions. Their integration of their CPU business to enhance the GPU business to support each other should help sell both more. Meaning if they have confidence in that as well, will procure more foundry space. I am thinking of Lisa Su as more like a Steve Jobs, maybe smarter as well.
We don't know one way or another, are you saying they will just go with Navi level or Vega level of cards? Plus we don't know how much foundry space was available. If they have the confidence that they will be stomping all over Nvidia, appears they will be, I would expect them to act that way and have more GPU's than they put out in the past. The rather dry supply of GPUs from Nvidia to AIB partners opens a gateway for components to be reallocated for RNDA2 cards for those AIBs that make both AMD and Nvidia cards. Now if the Consoles as well as Zen 3 consumed too much of the foundry, it can be a rather bleak winter for GPUs.There is no way AMD anticipated that nVidia would flub this hard 8 months ago, add in COVID uncertainty and its a guarantee AMD will not have the stock needed to supply the market. They are used to a 20% position, and even with an nVidia killer AMD must know they have an uphill battle to translate that into sales.
They will have more stock than nVidia, as nVidia royally messed that up. They will fill the vacum to the best of their ability, but that vacum is imho larger than the stock they will show up with.
We don't know one way or another, are you saying they will just go with Navi level or Vega level of cards? Plus we don't know how much foundry space was available. If they have the confidence that they will be stomping all over Nvidia, appears they will be, I would expect them to act that way and have more GPU's than they put out in the past. The rather dry supply of GPUs from Nvidia to AIB partners opens a gateway for components to be reallocated for RNDA2 cards for those AIBs that make both AMD and Nvidia cards. Now if the Consoles as well as Zen 3 consumed too much of the foundry, it can be a rather bleak winter for GPUs.
As for meeting demand, I too doubt it.
Imagine your flagship having less memory than two generations ago OmegaLulBut downgrading from 1080 Ti 11GB to 8GB memory isn't a good proposition
Bottom line, I'll be honest, I'm fucking pissed I can't buy a 3080 or 3070 now.
Has cash in hand for a month looking for a 3080 for $699 and nowhere. Sold out everywhere. Microcenter gets like 1 or 2 cards in a week, and there's losers waiting outside at 3am for the chance to get one. I'll never do that.
And now today, the 3070 sold out within hours at Microcenter. With zero info on when they expect more.
Buy online? Sold out. Most sites even say can't even back order or reserve.
And what the F is nVidia saying about all this? NOTHING. That's pretty ballsy for them to ignore this, like nothing's wrong.
And to top it off, old cards from years ago like the 2080 are selling for $800+ WTF? Thst old card should be like $300.
Makes me wanna sell my nice gaming rig and curved display, and say screw this hobby.
3070 in store only here in Canada, sad to see the $700 price tag though.....
https://www.memoryexpress.com/Category/VideoCards?FilterID=96554b60-9046-5919-7e9c-71e75e02e975
I have a feeling Ebay will not be as flexible with the returns of 3080's if there is a sharp increase of whats normal for the category. That's alot of profit from fee's on the returns they would be losing.Given eBay's notoriously buyer-friendly return policy, I have to wonder how many of these eBay sales are, in fact, rentals.
You can buy pre made gaming PC and shop that make custom PC still exists, but I am talking that the cost of a gaming PC for many is the extra cost between a PC that does not has the power supply/case/GPU and one that has those, often a better monitor could occur has well, so I am fully understanding that most do not have those, I am saying if they were the type of people that would ever consider playing big games on a PC that the type of PC they would have got instead of the one they would have had otherwise in that difference in cost is what having a gaming able PC instead of a regular one.The chance of a household having a TV that will just work with a console are *much* higher than a household having a PC that has a power supply and case that can fit a GPU that they are comfortable doing themselves. It's not really a valid comparison. Most people who can afford a gaming system have already bought a TV... not near as many will have a desktop that's upgradable. So I would argue there are likely more costs associated with a GPU purchase than a console purchase in general. This is why people often don't include the cost of the TV, because most people buying a console already have a TV. A lot of people buying GPU's do not have a PC already and are either building or buying a pre-built. This may not be true for you and I, but we are the exceptions to the norm .
I was simply responding to the claim that we often factor full system costs into PC vs not including TV cost into a console. This is true and for a good reason, if you've never tried out a console and want to try, it's more likely than not you have a tv that will work. If you want to get into of gaming, it's much less likely you have a PSU, my, case, etc waiting on a GPU. Again, we're the exception for this, not the norm.You can buy pre made gaming PC and shop that make custom PC still exists, but I am talking that the cost of a gaming PC for many is the extra cost between a PC that does not has the power supply/case/GPU and one that has those, often a better monitor could occur has well, so I am fully understanding that most do not have those, I am saying if they were the type of people that would ever consider playing big games on a PC that the type of PC they would have got instead of the one they would have had otherwise in that difference in cost is what having a gaming able PC instead of a regular one.
A bit like Netflix and streaming service, if you are to have a fast Internet with a lot or unlimited data anyway their cost is not too bad, if you get an fast internet/lot of data just for them, depending where you leave their cost can fastly get higher than cable.
If we look at how popular the Ryzen where with custom pc builder despite being arguably inferior at gaming at similar price point, we can assume it is really common for people to have a computer that play games but do other things with it (i.e. they would have a computer anyway, just a significantly cheaper one) or at least they think that for the many chrome tabs experience, torrents download, etc... if they do not really aspire to do anything with their computer they want an very smooth experience and on windows.