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Epic RTS Game?
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MavericK
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AI Wars isn't really an RTS, it's a 4X strategy game. I couldn't get into it at all.
GreenMonkey
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I've kind of had a craving for this kind of game lately. It's been years. I ended up powering up Dungeon Keeper 1 from gog instead. 
Maybe I should go re-install C&C Generals Zero Hour or Battle for Middle Earth 1 - last RTS games I really enjoyed.
Maybe I should go re-install C&C Generals Zero Hour or Battle for Middle Earth 1 - last RTS games I really enjoyed.
MavericK
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I loved C&C Generals/Zero Hour, but playing MP, even over a LAN, slowed to a crawl after a short time and basically made it unplayable.
I've kind of had a craving for this kind of game lately. It's been years. I ended up powering up Dungeon Keeper 1 from gog instead.
Maybe I should go re-install C&C Generals Zero Hour or Battle for Middle Earth 1 - last RTS games I really enjoyed.
Holy crap, thanks for the idea! I have never used this service but I decided to do a google on it and found that they had DK2 for 6 bucks and it says Windows7. Does these actually work on the newer windows platforms? I was using an old vintage voodoo machine to play games like this.
GreenMonkey
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Most of the older titles run in DOSbox and run great. Dungeon Keeper 1 runs perfect (no video accelerated 3D in the DOS version though).
Normally GOG does a good job updating older games (removing copy protection, updating game code to fix issues, etc) but last I knew Dungeon Keeper 2 is a bit of an exception - as a win95/98 game...last I knew it wasn't running particularly great on Win7. Check the gog forums and make sure (they have great forums). GOG is the go-to place for legacy gaming enthusiasts.
I think it's running well under Nvidia cards and not under AMD cards? Or the other way around?
CnC Generals ZH was great...but yeah...tended to bog down in large 4+ player games, and full of bug abusers for the online multiplayer.
Green monkey: Battle for Middle Earth 1 was about the only good EA RTS game lol I had lots of fun with that one. Was cool having the castle & being able to close the doors & put archers on towers & build heros with special abilities...Heres to hoping CT releases His version of BFME Kings and Castles...
GOG sells the full TA collection too. Runs well. Total Annihilation and both its expansion packs - The Core Contingency and Battle Tactics is only 6 bucks. The music is fantastic. Graphics are a bit dated, but still very playable.
For those who missed the thread, anyone who has a key for SupCom or SupCom:FA can register the key on Steam for SupCom Gold (which has both). There is a very active community at http://www.faforever.com/ which now works with either the steam version of FA or the retail. All the ugly that was GPGNet is gone. The game really runs well as the FAF mod.
For those who missed the thread, anyone who has a key for SupCom or SupCom:FA can register the key on Steam for SupCom Gold (which has both). There is a very active community at http://www.faforever.com/ which now works with either the steam version of FA or the retail. All the ugly that was GPGNet is gone. The game really runs well as the FAF mod.
MavericK
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If you are really nerdy you can try Spring RTS, which seems to use a TA-based ruleset and there are a lot of TA-like clones. Not very polished but it's free.
horse
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I just installed SupCom and FA , I did the steam activation thing but SC refuses to launch. It gives me the 'game is unavailable error'. I uninstalled and redownloaded it 3 times now and it's still doing it. Forged Alliance launches fine. I might have to reinstall it seperately without steam, but I wish it would work so I could keep track of my hours and what not.
Drawmonster
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Man, I'm having a fucking blast with Company of Heroes. I wish the complete pack would go on sale for the Steam summer sale.
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MavericK
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It probably will, it's been on sale numerous times.
Drawmonster
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Yep, there's a demo on Steam. I played it first, and was hooked instantly. Keep in mind the demo is dated, and if you buy the game there's a ton of updating to do. But man, what a fucking game!!!!
horse
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shoot man, I've haven't even played one minute of SC/FA, I think I'm not quite ready to jump into the multiplayer just yet. But if/when the time come I'll check it out.
SolitaryOne
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oh god yes, homeworld and homeworld 2 were freakin awesome games. It really is too bad that we will ever see another one made :'(
aoe2 and aoe3 have always been my favorites. Might just be because they are pretty simple. I just dont think i have the patience to learn some of the more complex games. I jumped in to RoN a little bit a while back, I think if i ever get some free time I'll put some effort into learning it. It seemed like it would be pretty good.
horse
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I managed to get Supcom running through steam, I installed it from the disk to the steamapps/common folder and it launched through steam. It's making me have the disk in the drive to lauch it which is weird, but oh well atleast I'll be able to keep track of my hours and screeshots and what not. So that's good.
I've been going through the tut trying to familiarize myself with it. Just as I suspected, I don't really like the camera controls, but I'll get used to it I suppose. Also the whole economy thing is confusing to me, I don't quite understand what's going on with it. I'm gonna have to look into that whole aspect much more.
That aside I can see supcom being very complex and technical with seemingly endless possibilities of play. Most definitely going with easy mode for the first time, if there is one, haven't even looked.
I've been going through the tut trying to familiarize myself with it. Just as I suspected, I don't really like the camera controls, but I'll get used to it I suppose. Also the whole economy thing is confusing to me, I don't quite understand what's going on with it. I'm gonna have to look into that whole aspect much more.
That aside I can see supcom being very complex and technical with seemingly endless possibilities of play. Most definitely going with easy mode for the first time, if there is one, haven't even looked.
No offense to you in particular as this brings up a generalized question but why do people always say that about Supcom's economy? It isn't any different from other strategy games (especially Total Annihilation) except that a stalled economy is very serious punishment for not finding the balance of supply/demand. The most brutal part, I think, is upgrading your mass extractors to T2/T3. If you do one at a time you risk falling behind in production but if you do multiple (or, god forbid all of them) at once then you run the risk of not being able to answer against an attack. Some scary shit when you realize you can't stop an incoming attack, lol
MavericK
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I think some would argue that the economy "balance" is one of the key parts of what makes the game fun. Though, if you want "standard" RTS economy you can play SupCom 2. Both have their places. I prefer SupCom 2 for quicker matches, whereas SupCom generally turns into a drawn-out battle over hours.
Basically, to (hopefully) clarify:
SupCom = Resources collected as a "rate", and units build as a negative "rate". You have a stockpile (think of it as an emergency reserve of sorts) of each resource (which can increase with mass/energy storage units) but generally if your economy is negatively imbalanced you will drain your reserve extremely fast. If you run out of resources you can still build, it just takes FOREVER (like, with one engineer, an experimental can literally take over an hour real-time to construct). You can have more than one engineer building another unit, but the more you have building at once the more resource rate you use up (obviously?). So finding the balance is the key to victory.
SupCom 2 / Most other RTS games = Resources collected into a pool, and each unit built takes a set amount and the resources are subtracted from your pool immediately upon start of construction. IIRC some units you can have more than one engineer helping to build at a time, but not all. Either way you only use the same amount of resources per unit built, so it is ideal to get several engineers working on something like, say, an experimental at a time. If you do not have enough resources you simply cannot begin construction on a unit. Basically the same as Starcraft and most other RTS games.
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Why does anyone ball hug on COH. Seriously I spent 60 bucks (collector edition left over) on just the good reviews my freshman year of college played it and was like "why the fuck did I waste money on this shit"
Then to think that I was crazy I gave it to my 2 roommates and forced them to play it. They both said the same thing. Sure it was a game many enjoyed, but I wouldn't say it was epic. It was mostly squad based.
When I think of epic I think like "200 units and nukes!"
Starcraft barely makes the cut. Total annihilation etc. "EPIC"
Then to think that I was crazy I gave it to my 2 roommates and forced them to play it. They both said the same thing. Sure it was a game many enjoyed, but I wouldn't say it was epic. It was mostly squad based.
When I think of epic I think like "200 units and nukes!"
Starcraft barely makes the cut. Total annihilation etc. "EPIC"
The best part about SupCom economy is the fact that in the beginning it requires some fast microing to get the base set up, but once you get to tech 2 and 3 stages it becomes more about the economy and holding nodes.
Instead in SC2 it is all about "Getting the most resources in the quickest amount of time".
MavericK
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Yeah, I would not consider CoH to be an "epic" RTS. It's a lot like the DoW games, which is: smaller squads, fast attacks and capture and hold.
It's not a bad game (IMO) but it's certainly a lot different than TA/SupCom. There is a LOT more micro-management of units, and there is a lot of focus on squad integrity, as you can reinforce squads that are already made for cheap, but if you lose an entire squad it costs a LOT more to get it back.
It's not a bad game (IMO) but it's certainly a lot different than TA/SupCom. There is a LOT more micro-management of units, and there is a lot of focus on squad integrity, as you can reinforce squads that are already made for cheap, but if you lose an entire squad it costs a LOT more to get it back.
MavericK
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Yeah, I agree totally. I just like SupCom 2 for faster matches, like I said. It's a bit of a different play style and I like to mix it up sometimes.
I understand it being different and such and I still believe it isn't a bad game. I mean Relic did it after all and they gave us Homeworld. The problem with the game is everyone thinks it to be the best RTS ever made.
I mean shit the whole reason I started playing RTS games was the promise of huge armies clashing and nuclear warfare. SupCom gives me all that and more with the Strategic Zoom. The Strategic zoom is literally the best RTS invention for the genre ever! I dont know how you can play a RTS game without it.
horse
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Maverick, that's s pretty good explanation, thanks. I think I'm starting to get the hang of it. The first times I tried the tut I kept crashing the economy and just didn't know wtf was what. I wasn't building storage units to increase the overall amount of resources, and generally just trying for to much to fast, thus leaving me unable to do anything really. I'm becoming familiar with the adjacency techniques for generators and storage units, as well as getting acquainted with some initial build orders. Should be ready to start the campaign soon.
That is what makes supcom so great. There is micro managing sure and it gets excessive at times, but it isn't like Warcraft 3 were you had to do all this hero leveling bullshit.
Thats the problem with Blizzard RTS games. If you can't train your wrist to beat yourself off at 10,000 revolutions per minute translating into a micro APM score you will never ever be good at the game.
Warcraft 3 is just a massive bullshit hero battle to the point where it is just more fun to play the game with the heroes and not the units, ie: DOTA.
Everyone praises for C&C Generals for being awesome, but the game hasn't held up and won't. None of those C&C games hold up years later like Starcraft 1 did. They all look like shit and the unit management and balance is shit. I tried to reinstall Zero Hour and it was like playing with a brick wall.
Homeworld was amazing and completely ahead of its time. Had it not released when people were still on dial up it would have been better. Any space battle in Homeworld was like a cluster fuck of lag. Plus you had a "guessing" aspect to just hyper jump and find your opponent, but for sure had a sense of scale. I always felt alone when I was playing other people.
GPG and Relic if they ever made an RTS together. Would be pure joy.
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MavericK
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Yeah I agree, I think CoH is really overrated as well. Really, games like this and DoW need to be in a different sub-genre of RTS than games like SupCom. Action RTS maybe?
Yeah, that's another thing I forgot to mention, and something that is important for maxing out your econ. Alternately, in SupCom 2, adjacency doesn't do anything.
And I REALLY wish they would make a Homeworld 3. That game was awesome.
Real Time Tactics, but that title has never really caught on even when describing smaller, more focused games.
I had a blast with RUSE. Nothing quite like having AT guns and elite soldiers hidden in a thicket of woods and blasting the ever living shit out of Tiger tanks. Some of my favorite online gaming memories are from that game, with stunning defeats (oh god the surprise) and nigh impossible victories.
Arken Elric
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DoW is an awesome RTS. Highly recommend that and CoH to satisfy your craving.
horse
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That's basically the way Retribution is. I found myself never using any of the buildable units because they were pretty much pointless, up until the final boss battle when you're just spamming bodies and machines.
Apparently the scale of DoW III is going to much more grand than than its predecessors. Idk if it will be like Supcom with hundreds of units but a return to its roots would definitely be welcomed imo. Pretty much everything has been done before, the only thing left to do is go even bigger.
DOW III isn't in production. COH2 is stated for a release next year.
Monkey God
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SupCom:FA with appropriate mods (Sorian AI, multi core hack) is one of the best RTS games ever. I still play regularly. If I had the money, I'd buy the source code and polish it up. The economy takes a bit of work to get used too, but it adds another dimension to the game. If you get find some scrap/resources early game, or let the enemy come to you, and salvage all the leftovers from the battle, that can add a boost to your early economy to help tech up faster. Also, if you can scope out the enemies base, you can get an idea of where he might be weak economy wise (snipe out his first T2 power plant for example) can push him back quite a bit. Attacking the opponents economy is a big part of it as well.
horse
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Maybe not full-scale production but I'm sure they're working on it behind the scene.
Maybe but if it isn't stated for 2013 than anything after that feels like an eternity in video games. I mean 2 years ago I was playing games I can't remember.
My brothers and I still play supcom:fa on the weekends. The faforever community is doing a fantastic job of patching and sorting the multiplayer. Planning to pick up more keys if they go on sale for buddies. The faf mod adds in the sorian ai too. You install the steam supcom:fa, then run the faf msi. Create an account and you are ready for multiplayer.
Games don't have to last for hours. 30-60 minute rounds are common once you get the hang of e economy. Can be faster if you rush. We usually do us vs. AI. Went from getting our butts kicked by easy ai to taking on the cheater techs with sorian helpers.
For me, the key was trying to stay as close to zero on net mass. Upgrade one Mex at a time. Surround each with mass storage. Upgrade one factory at a time. Reclaim every tree. Early on I'd build more than my economy could handle. Games slow to a crawl if you are mass bound.
This game works very will with two monitors. You can have your tactical and strategic view at the same time. Scroll the mouse wheel to zoom in and out.
Games don't have to last for hours. 30-60 minute rounds are common once you get the hang of e economy. Can be faster if you rush. We usually do us vs. AI. Went from getting our butts kicked by easy ai to taking on the cheater techs with sorian helpers.
For me, the key was trying to stay as close to zero on net mass. Upgrade one Mex at a time. Surround each with mass storage. Upgrade one factory at a time. Reclaim every tree. Early on I'd build more than my economy could handle. Games slow to a crawl if you are mass bound.
This game works very will with two monitors. You can have your tactical and strategic view at the same time. Scroll the mouse wheel to zoom in and out.
not a lot of love for these in this thread but my favs were;
-Homeworld franchise (Homeworld & Cataclysm, Homeworld 2 was a bit average)
-Total War franchise (Rome, Medieval II, Empire & Shogun II)
great news that Rome II will be released in ~6mths. excited 2 of my favourite all time games are getting a refresh (Rome & Baldur's Gate II), if only Homeworld got another addition.
Total Annihilation was also great, one of the few games i've played where i've remembered the music score. epic sound, perfect accompaniment to the game.
-Homeworld franchise (Homeworld & Cataclysm, Homeworld 2 was a bit average)
-Total War franchise (Rome, Medieval II, Empire & Shogun II)
great news that Rome II will be released in ~6mths. excited 2 of my favourite all time games are getting a refresh (Rome & Baldur's Gate II), if only Homeworld got another addition.
Total Annihilation was also great, one of the few games i've played where i've remembered the music score. epic sound, perfect accompaniment to the game.