Dragon Age: Origins. Thanks but no thanks.

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Freezebyte

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Well once again I jumped on bandwagons and found that it just wasn't for me after all. Got hyped up with all the Dragon Age stuff and I decided I had to give it a shot. Played for several hours last night and a few this morning and I was pretty much done. Biowares has done an exceptional job with the voice acting, story telling, characters and atmosphere, I can't gripe about those, wonderfully done from what i've seen and played. I loved KOTOR and Mass Effect to death but this...this is to hardcore RPG for me.

Unfortuantly, i've been spoiled by Fallout 3, Oblivion and others that let me free roam and let me do whatever, whenver and however I feel like. I don't like being "trapped" in a RPG rail system, no matter how big its. It was so annoying to be in the forest and I wanted to go explore a ruin or an area only to find the "invisible wall of denied" to stop me. Lame lame lame is all I have to say to that. What the hell is the point of a huge world if your following a farking trail the entire time? Cmon....

The combat system is definently different then im used to. Never played Baldurs gate, but I assume this is how the hardcore RPG fanantics like to control their attacks, parties and what not. Thanks but no thanks, give me oblivions and fallout 3 control scheme any day of the week, including the ability to just simply click a hot key and fire the damn spell or arrow instead of this left click, right click back and forth crap

I can see why so many people were looking forward to this game, it definentely has its merits, but it aint for me. My 1 day old collectors edition will be up for sale today so someone else can enjoy it. http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1466225

Have fun with Dragon Age you hardcore RPGer's, i'll go back to my more "modest" and "consoled" down RPG's that I prefer. Gonna go buy the expansion packs to Fallout 3 and have a blast *literally*
 
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The hotkey stuff is there just drag and drop whatever you want to the quickbar and press a number...
 
"to each their own"

If you were looking to spark a discussion you could have done without the ranting and gave a simple non whiny personal view of the game.
 
CannibalTrout said:
"to each their own"

If you were looking to spark a discussion you could have done without the ranting and gave a simple non whiny personal view of the game.
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I agree about "to each their own," but I don't think he was ranting or whining -- it's valuable I think for someone to point out that however much they really enjoyed ME and Fallout and Oblivion and KOTOR and the other recent RPG-ish titles, that this is an entirely different game.

It's very easy to jump onto the bandwagon of buying the game before you realize that everyone's posts you read about in all these forums are into an entirely different genre from what you thought. Especially with all these newer games like Fallout and Oblivion taking RPG elements and putting them forth in an infinitely more accessible manner, I think it's easy for people to fall into trying a big title like this, thinking it's something else.
 
CannibalTrout said:
"to each their own"

If you were looking to spark a discussion you could have done without the ranting and gave a simple non whiny personal view of the game.
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I don't think he was whining.

I'm not sure how much more tame you can make his post and still 'spark' a discussion.
 
kuyaglen said:
Invisible walls?

:(
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Yeah, basically you are out in a forest, on a beaten path and you look over to the right and see something you want to explore but for some reason your feet just won't leave the beaten path.

They have decided to direct your travel paths by allowing you to view the area but you can't walk over to it. Think of being a MIME(sp). The game is fun but that is the one part I don't like, I want to be able to walk any where on the loaded map. ::shrug::
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
I don't think he was whining.

I'm not sure how much more tame you can make his post and still 'spark' a discussion.
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Seconded, the guy is barely even criticizing the game itself. He simply didn't like it.

Game fans get really wrapped up in their favorite games, taking attacks on the game as a personal affront. The game doesn't have feelings to hurt y'know.
 
Very good points you make. I think that too many people thought this was going to be a do whatever you want/light on the rolepaying type game. Bad marketing on EA/Bioware's part IMHO. I am thrilled that it is exactly like I thought it would be. But hey, as said before, to each his own. Sorry you did not like it, but there are plenty of games out there right now for eveyone to get what they want.
 
In the industry those are called "Impassables."

I love Bethesda's RPGs too, the open worlds are a lot of fun and I wish BioWare would do that. Oh, wait, they did, it's called Star Wars: The Old Republic! haha

But anywayI have three problems with Bethesda's games that will always make BioWare's better:

1. Animation.

Bethesda has the worst animations of any games in history. It's unbelievable how they can have such big budget games and have such horrible, amateurish character animations. As a developer I am astonished at how bad they are. All the characters in all their games look like stick figures animated by community college kids.

2. Writing.

Bethesda's writing is good, but mediocre. All of BioWare's games have just superlative writing and nobody makes you care about what you're doing like they do.

3. Dialog.

Bethesda's games always have the camera stop and center on the character you're talking to. It's like watching too many episodes of Star Trek the old series, with those close ups. It's so bad. Play Mass Effect and do the dialog there with the wheel and the choices and the camera moving all over, and you own character being voiced and you'll see the best example of what I mean. It's really sad that they didn't do voices for your character in DAO like they did in Mass Effect, it's definitely a con of the game.
 
I don't mind the combat system, but I dislike linear games. I don't care if many older RPGs were linear... I don't like that aspect in modern games.
 
wcdturbo said:
Yeah, basically you are out in a forest, on a beaten path and you look over to the right and see something you want to explore but for some reason your feet just won't leave the beaten path.

They have decided to direct your travel paths by allowing you to view the area but you can't walk over to it. Think of being a MIME(sp). The game is fun but that is the one part I don't like, I want to be able to walk any where on the loaded map. ::shrug::
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Design decision. Put dev time into a larger open roaming world filled with more scenery and bushes and a random underdeveloped dungeon with sh*t for story, or put that energy into a more focused and immersive experience in a less completely open field.



In kotor it would have been nice to roam the beaches of manaan for days, but unless it was as populated as the areas where something was going on the the campaigns were fleshed out, it is less interesting.

The argument to me is not simply yearning for a more open world, it is a more open AND more fleshed out world. Sorry, but alot of that Oblivion openess was still empty to me.

I do not get that feeling from games like BG2 and now Dragon Age. It is the better way.
 
tybert7 said:
I do not get that feeling from games like BG2 and now Dragon Age. It is the better way.
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That's right. Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect and Dragon Age all have given me goose bumps because of the characters and the story. Morrowind, Oblivion and Fallout never did. They were good games, but it was more mechanical.
 
Earley said:
That's right. Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect and Dragon Age all have given me goose bumps because of the characters and the story. Morrowind, Oblivion and Fallout never did. They were good games, but it was more mechanical.
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same here. never could get into the bethesda titles, they just felt sandboxed to me and nothing really driving my curiosity other than just to be curious which isnt motivating to me.

But like the OP said, to each their own, and i can see why people love the fallout/oblivion type games, just not me.
 
Enjoy the gunplay and tactics of fallout 3 that is literally nothing more than spraying bullets into something until it dies.
 
C'mon! When Duncan looked up to the tower when it was finally lit up??? How EPIC was that scene? That was just a few hours into the game and I was already getting chills and goosebumps. Can't wait for the next 80 hours!!

Enjoy your FPS/RPG.
 
2 different types of games. Fallout 3 and Oblivion were more about exploration and doing what you wanted with a story that you could completely avoid. I happen to like those games because Bethesda gives you so much to keep you occupied. On the other hand, games like Mass Effect, and Dragon Age, give you a engrossing story , with a combat that system that, how do I say this, kind of "forces" you to follow the story and not branch off, which is what traditional RPG's did. This game would fail hard if the story was sub par, it HAS to be good for everything to come together, just like fallout 3 or oblivion would fail if the world was small and had no side quests while at the same time, the story was subpar.

So its either, Exploration, do what you want + subpar story, or "on rails" travel, with a Great story. I have yet to see a RPG meld those 2 toghether and I don't think you can.... Even if Fallout 3's story was phenomonal, I dont think I could pull myself to put it ahead of the exploration.. (it took me around 40 hrs to finally get to finishing the story in fallout 3 lol), and I dont think I could handle the combat system or on rails (tactical) gameplay if the story wasn't something I could appreciate in dragon age.

/end soapbox.
 
Baldurs Gate was not linear. Sure it had a story to follow but you could explore whatever you wanted and go off into areas to do sidequests.
 
this is definitely for hardcore RPG fans only...not for newbs to RPG's...Fallout 3 and Oblivion is not a true RPG and was streamlined to make it more accessible to non fans of the genre...this is back to basics stuff and you really need to love old school RPG's to appreciate it...Fallout and Oblivion spolied casual gamers into thinking that all RPG's were like them but in reality they are a different beast entirely
 
As a huge fan of Mass Effect and Fallout 3, I watched this game but knew I would not be interested. Like the OP, the time frame, setting and mechanics were not my cup of tea either. I'm an old death-matcher who simply enjoys a good story driven game anymore.

That said, I don't think you can lump ME and FO3 in with traditional RPG's anymore. They are more of an RPG-FPS similar to my all time favorite Deus Ex. A genre I seem to enjoy more then any other. I wish they were less consolized, but what are you going to do these days? I am anxiously looking forward to Mass Effect 2 and Alpha Protocol.
 
kelbear said:
The game doesn't have feelings to hurt y'know.
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seaman.jpg
 
The game is a masterpiece.

I you liked the Neverwinter series, or BG2, this game is for you.
 
My buddy who plays DnD and loved Baldur's Gate, like I do says Dragon's Age is a must buy.

I'll be picking this up for sure.
 
The commercial looked great for this game,

Baldur gate:)

There are different genres for games if you don't fit it don't complain about it.
 
Funny, I came at it from another angle I used to be the hardcore open sandbox fan: Oblivion, Morrowind, Mount&Blade. Then I played Half-Life2 to see what a linear game could bring me, and I realized that linear games are often times better for storyline. And after playing too much Oblivion I craved story more and more.

The "RPG rail system" has it's merits....strong story. Anyways, I'm sure Dragon age will end up being a little more open ended.... once you get past the origins.

It's hard for a game to have both a strong story and a full open sandbox. Both have their merits. I'll enjoy both kinds.
 
polonyc2 said:
this is definitely for hardcore RPG fans only...not for newbs to RPG's...Fallout 3 and Oblivion is not a true RPG and was streamlined to make it more accessible to non fans of the genre...this is back to basics stuff and you really need to love old school RPG's to appreciate it...Fallout and Oblivion spolied casual gamers into thinking that all RPG's were like them but in reality they are a different beast entirely
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I would not take it that far. I just think Fallout3 and Oblivion were just different kinds of RPG's. The term RPG does not just apply to the old school ones. If that were the case I could say Counterstrike was not a true FPS since it was different than the old school FPS's. See how many people would flame you for that.
 
Parmenides said:
Funny, I came at it from another angle I used to be the hardcore open sandbox fan: Oblivion, Morrowind, Mount&Blade. Then I played Half-Life2 to see what a linear game could bring me, and I realized that linear games are often times better for storyline. And after playing too much Oblivion I craved story more and more.

The "RPG rail system" has it's merits. Anyways, I'm sure Dragon age will end up being a little more open ended.... once you get past the origins.

It's hard for a game to have both a strong story and a full open sandbox. Both have their merits. I'll enjoy both kinds.
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The storyline in DA:O is freaking awesome so far. I don't mind linear. I don't have a lot of time on me, so yes while nice to go hiking 'cross the land kicking up sand is fun sometimes, in a game such as this I enjoy the story progression so much more than the freedom to walk to nowhere and check out a tree, rock, or a ruin.
 
Occidio said:
I would not take it that far. I just think Fallout3 and Oblivion were just different kinds of RPG's. The term RPG does not just apply to the old school ones. If that were the case I could say Counterstrike was not a true FPS since it was different than the old school FPS's. See how many people would flame you for that.
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Also if you do want to play a more traditional ARPG such as FO3 and Oblivion drop the view down to 3rd party mode and turn it to easy mode.
 
As I said in another DA thread,

King Icewind said:
I just got this game yesterday and it's really fun! I stayed up later then I should've, I got 5 hours of sleep. A lot of people have been complaining about the gameplay of this game, and I find that ridiculous. I put the difficulty up to Hard from the start and I've only had to reload around 5 times. The pausing is like any real RPG out there, so any one that complains saying "I've played other RPGs...". No you havn't! Welcome to RPG's! This isn't a hack and slash like Oblivion or a rush in and shoot like Mass Effect. Those games are hardly RPG's. They are fun but there is barely any Role Playing to be had.

Great game, I can't wait to go home and play it.
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Complaining because it's not easy and you can't beat it right away. Tactics and planning is required, welcome to a real RPG as I said earlier. Stop complaining because you can't kill a couple of Darkspawn, seriously lol.

I would recommend this game to anyone that wants a fun, not easily beat game. Don't expect a Oblivion or Gothic/Risen RPG where you just click until they are dead. Strategy is required.
 
Parmenides said:
Funny, I came at it from another angle I used to be the hardcore open sandbox fan: Oblivion, Morrowind, Mount&Blade. Then I played Half-Life2 to see what a linear game could bring me, and I realized that linear games are often times better for storyline. And after playing too much Oblivion I craved story more and more.

The "RPG rail system" has it's merits....strong story. Anyways, I'm sure Dragon age will end up being a little more open ended.... once you get past the origins.

It's hard for a game to have both a strong story and a full open sandbox. Both have their merits. I'll enjoy both kinds.
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Linear plot oriented RPG's are typically JRPG's ( tales / FF series etc.) It's really hard to compare an RPG to half life...

I enjoyed The Elder Scrolls, Mount&Blade (best indie game ever??), Fallout, and the likes. But I have found that the games that I get really involved in are the linear plot oriented JRPG's.
 
dragon age is awesome. its half sandbox half on rails but so far the story kicks ass. if you enjoyed BG ME or any rpg. you will enjoy this. Like some said before you cant compare FPS to an RPG to different geners. like comparing apples against dog shit. completely different.
 
Did you say specific "trails" and "paths" that you need to follow, thus not being able to explore?

Fable anyone? :mad:
 
polonyc2 said:
this is definitely for hardcore RPG fans only...not for newbs to RPG's...Fallout 3 and Oblivion is not a true RPG and was streamlined to make it more accessible to non fans of the genre...this is back to basics stuff and you really need to love old school RPG's to appreciate it...Fallout and Oblivion spolied casual gamers into thinking that all RPG's were like them but in reality they are a different beast entirely
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This is true.

I don't think it's fair necessarily to say those games aren't "true RPGs"...they're just very different. They're definitely more "action RPGs" whereas something like Dragon Age is exactly as you describe it. Back to basics. Old school.


I've probably put about 6 hours or so in Dragon Age and...I'm taking a break. I realize I'm just not fully in the mood for a "hardcore RPG" at the moment. That's nothing against the game at all. I suspect a little later on I'll be more, fully ready for it and dive in.

What Dragon Age does it does VERY well. This is clearly the best old school RPG to come along in who knows how long, regardless of whether or not the "successor to Baldur's Gate" marketing is true or not.

It is what it is. If you don't like hardcore, old school RPGs, there's no way you're going to like this game. It's as simple as that.



This thread really has done an excellent job breaking down the pros and the cons and I think fence sitters that know what they wan't and don't want will have a pretty good gauge of what's up here.

Games like Fallout 3, Oblivion or even Risen all have their own strengths and weaknesses...frankly there are some things in those games that I prefer and enjoy more than some of the things happening in Dragon Age. Just my own preferences, not saying one thing sucks and the other doesn't or anything like that.


On the other hand, I'm going to paraphrase badly what I saw one guy write on the previous page which was exactly right: You can have "open free world" like Oblivion or Fallout 3 that feels empty and full of sameness clones in terms of both people and areas themselves, or you can have something like Dragon Age which keeps you more on rails...hiding that fact sometimes better than others...but you have WAY more variety in characters and NPCs and such. That is SO true.

Writing, storytelling, characters are also way better in Dragon Age vs. something like a Fallout 3 or Oblivion. That is also true.

Maybe there's a happy balance somewhere in between these games.




Greeink said:
Did you say specific "trails" and "paths" that you need to follow, thus not being able to explore?

Fable anyone? :mad:
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Fable is a good game.



One more thing about Dragon Age: I'm amazed they put this kind of RPG out on the consoles. I'll be stunned if it sells well on the consoles. There may be a few converts on the consoles that end up loving this game but I really will be surprised if it does well there.



Another game I didn't mention that I should is The Witcher. Now that's something that might be easier for people to ease in to before trying out a game like Dragon Age. If you're leaping straight from Fallout 3 or Oblivion into Dragon Age it might be a pretty rough transistion of sorts. Witcher has a pretty darned good balance of great story, characters, a little bit easier gameplay to work with and so forth. Pretty good all around balanced RPG. A damned good game all the way around and highly recommended. :)
 
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tybert7 said:
Design decision. Put dev time into a larger open roaming world filled with more scenery and bushes and a random underdeveloped dungeon with sh*t for story, or put that energy into a more focused and immersive experience in a less completely open field.



In kotor it would have been nice to roam the beaches of manaan for days, but unless it was as populated as the areas where something was going on the the campaigns were fleshed out, it is less interesting.

The argument to me is not simply yearning for a more open world, it is a more open AND more fleshed out world. Sorry, but alot of that Oblivion openess was still empty to me.

I do not get that feeling from games like BG2 and now Dragon Age. It is the better way.
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This
 
Freezebyte said:
Well once again I jumped on bandwagons and found that it just wasn't for me after all. Got hyped up with all the Dragon Age stuff and I decided I had to give it a shot. Played for several hours last night and a few this morning and I was pretty much done. Biowares has done an exceptional job with the voice acting, story telling, characters and atmosphere, I can't gripe about those, wonderfully done from what i've seen and played. I loved KOTOR and Mass Effect to death but this...this is to hardcore RPG for me.

Unfortuantly, i've been spoiled by Fallout 3, Oblivion and others that let me free rome and let me do whatever, whenver and however I feel like. I don't like being "trapped" in a RPG rail system, no matter how big its. It was so annoying to be in the forest and I wanted to go explore a ruin or an area only to find the "invisible wall of denied" to stop me. Lame lame lame is all I have to say to that. What the hell is the point of a huge world if your following a farking trail the entire time? Cmon....

The combat system is definently different then im used to. Never played Baldurs gate, but I assume this is how the hardcore RPG fanantics like to control their attacks, parties and what not. Thanks but no thanks, give me oblivions and fallout 3 control scheme any day of the week, including the ability to just simply click a hot key and fire the damn spell or arrow instead of this left click, right click back and forth crap

Have fun with Dragon Age you hardcore RPGer's, i'll go back to my more "modest" and "consoled" down RPG's that I prefer. Gonna go buy the expansion packs to Fallout 3 and have a blast *literally*
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Fallout 3 and Oblivion can only really be losely called RPGs, the PC RPG'ers of old were mostly dissapointed with games like Oblivion. They really represent the RPGs of old but dumbed down a lot for the console crowd who tend to have much smaller attention spans.

You see the PC crowd sitting down and playing for 6/8/10 hours at a time but on average console users are picking up their games for short play times.

Dragon age looks like one of the less consolised games of recent times, in fact I'd go as far as to say it looks like it was developed for the PC and ported to the console, purely from what I've seen.

It wont be for everyone, many gamers are getting into this whole consolization thing and we have this tide of mediocre games. What I consider "proper" PC games of old like Baldurs gate will have less appeal, but for fans of the genre it's already proved to be a very good game.
 
The game opens up a bit on in terms of non-linear direction. The world itself isn't fully open like Oblivion/fallout or anything but after the Grey Warden area and the town after that you can set out to travel to different places and such. The world layout and "pathway" type of thing is pretty much how it is done in every Bioware game, it was the same in KOTOR and Mass Effect, both had a pathway like world.

I would like to see it more open, but at the same time with games that have that I sometimes feel lost and the story does have as much drive.

As far as combat goes...you can use hotkeys. I play as a warrior and during combat constantly move between party members to use their skills when I want with the hotkeys.
 
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