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Dragon Age II
- Thread starter Oldie
- Start date
What's wrong? Don't you have Merril strategically placed on the battlefield so that you can intercept any enemies that try to rush towards her? Oh! You say waves of enemies magically spawn right on top of her in the middle of every battle? Yeah that sucks, sorry.
Domingo
Fully [H]
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Along with the respawning enemies (strategy my ass - it's a guessing game of where they'll show up), it does seem like the game doesn't like you overusing certain powerful rogue attacks on single bosses.
I typically start most encounters with Mark of Death followed by my main (Rogue) and Isabella using backstab, twin fangs, assassinate, etc. all in a row. However in lots of battles, those attacks just won't "work." I'll select the ability and it'll show up below my portrait as though it's my current action, but my characters will simply run head-first into the enemy and do nothing. Sometimes they'll circle, too. I wonder if doing a certain amount of damage in a short period is internally nixed or something.
I typically start most encounters with Mark of Death followed by my main (Rogue) and Isabella using backstab, twin fangs, assassinate, etc. all in a row. However in lots of battles, those attacks just won't "work." I'll select the ability and it'll show up below my portrait as though it's my current action, but my characters will simply run head-first into the enemy and do nothing. Sometimes they'll circle, too. I wonder if doing a certain amount of damage in a short period is internally nixed or something.
Honestly, there isn't much of a way to prevent this unless you can get your fortitude up, and outside of raising strength (which you should NOT do on a mage or rogue), you can only do this through equipment. It isn't something that you need to focus on since there isn't a ton you can do. You really just need to focus on getting Aveline (or whoever is your tank) to keep aggro.
With my rogue I can basically one-shot everything that isn't an elite anyways so even if he does get aggro it's not a huge deal.
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QFT
Spawning enemies in battle has the effect of replacing strategy with tactics. It's a great way to surprise a player into making tactical mistakes, eg, expending mana to finish off that last baddie only to see a new group coming in, but if every battle becomes an endurance test, strategy goes right out the window. What's the point of a formation when enemies can teleport into the middle of your group? What's the point in scouting terrain and enemy placement with your rogue if the enemies haven't been spawned yet?
Spoilers ahead (DA:O)
DA:O used spawning enemies sparingly but to good effect. The Redcliffe battle gradually turned from a controlled battle to a struggle for existence as the undead kept coming and coming. A couple areas with queen spiders had you surrounded, and breaking out of the trap was difficult if vulnerable members of your party got webbed at the wrong moment. The bridge in the Dead Trenches, the Broodmother fight, a few areas with demons summoned and appearing out of the ground, 3 drakes walking into the room behind your party.
Good stuff.DA:O also used a fixed pool of enemies which made recon (via Rogue or the cheesy Survival skill) worthwhile. Some of the werewolf battles were awesome because they came at you so fast, knocked your tank down and fucked your formation all to hell, and then a couple of stealthy werewolves would suddenly appear in the mix. Or in the Urn quest, you'd open a door on a room full of people, attack them and a couple of mages flank you from an adjacent room--or vice versa if you tackled the mages first. This accounts for most of the battles in DA:O and they're very believable.
That's not even getting into some of the traps and terrain features used. Bottom line was, many of the DA:O battles felt unique and were very well staged. A good strategy coming into a fight made life a lot easier but there were enough tactical reconfigurations necessary to keep things from becoming boring. DA:O's major problem was that the AI's view distance could be exploited and groups of enemies taken out piecemeal.
I haven't played DA 2 so I don't know if the claims that 'every' battle has spawning enemies, but if enough do I can see myself getting fatigued and bored. Plus the teleporting enemies break immersion; I've seen enough gameplay videos to have the opinion that it looks cheap and dumbed down.
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QFT
Spawning enemies in battle has the effect of replacing strategy with tactics. It's a great way to surprise a player into making tactical mistakes, eg, expending mana to finish off that last baddie only to see a new group coming in, but if every battle becomes an endurance test, strategy goes right out the window. What's the point of a formation when enemies can teleport into the middle of your group? What's the point in scouting terrain and enemy placement with your rogue if the enemies haven't been spawned yet?
Spoilers ahead (DA:O)
DA:O used spawning enemies sparingly but to good effect. The Redcliffe battle gradually turned from a controlled battle to a struggle for existence as the undead kept coming and coming. A couple areas with queen spiders had you surrounded, and breaking out of the trap was difficult if vulnerable members of your party got webbed at the wrong moment. The bridge in the Dead Trenches, the Broodmother fight, a few areas with demons summoned and appearing out of the ground, 3 drakes walking into the room behind your party.
DA:O also used a fixed pool of enemies which made recon (via Rogue or the cheesy Survival skill) worthwhile. Some of the werewolf battles were awesome because they came at you so fast, knocked your tank down and fucked your formation all to hell, and then a couple of stealthy werewolves would suddenly appear in the mix. Or in the Urn quest, you'd open a door on a room full of people, attack them and a couple of mages flank you from an adjacent room--or vice versa if you tackled the mages first. This accounts for most of the battles in DA:O and they're very believable.
That's not even getting into some of the traps and terrain features used. Bottom line was, many of the DA:O battles felt unique and were very well staged. A good strategy coming into a fight made life a lot easier but there were enough tactical reconfigurations necessary to keep things from becoming boring. DA:O's major problem was that the AI's view distance could be exploited and groups of enemies taken out piecemeal.
I haven't played DA 2 so I don't know if the claims that 'every' battle has spawning enemies, but if enough do I can see myself getting fatigued and bored. Plus the teleporting enemies break immersion; I've seen enough gameplay videos to have the opinion that it looks cheap and dumbed down.
Even counting the boss battles I can only think of one encounter in DA2 that didn't have randomly spawning enemies. Out of the hundreds (feels like thousands) of mobs I must have fought in the game a grand total of one didn't have spawning enemies.
I started my third playthrough yesterday. A slutty redheaded mage chick with too much makeup. Still on hard, I'm afraid to put it on Nightmare- maybe I should just do it. I'm thinking mage, isabella, varric, and Aveline... IDK. Fenris is pretty powerful, hard to give that up.
What is this? Me vs. the entire god damned forum? Come on, some of you guys who like this game need to man up, and start arguing against this nonsense.
I like the talky-talk bits, and... well, that's about it. Combat is a joke.
Why must it be black and white with you, why can't we like some parts and hate some parts and think it's a so-so game? Why the hell would I "rally" for this game when it's not even on the top-10 CRPG list?
Domingo
Fully [H]
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There are definitely plenty of things to like about the game and while there are tons of gripes - it's still pretty clearly Dragon Age hidden under a fair number of rushed flaws.
At this point I'm a little curious if they'll make an Awakenings-style expansion that fixes some of the issues. The engine isn't what's broken, it's just they did (or were forced to do) with it in limited time.
At this point I'm a little curious if they'll make an Awakenings-style expansion that fixes some of the issues. The engine isn't what's broken, it's just they did (or were forced to do) with it in limited time.
mongoosenco
Weaksauce
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- Jan 11, 2008
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- 91
I did not find this game hard except for a couple encounters. I played on hard and breezed through most of the game without having to do any planning. Exceptions were the rock wraith, the revenants, and one of the dragons. Every other encounter was just me running in killing stuff. I may have died a few times, but I never had to micromanage my party. It was fun at first, but DA:O was 10 times better at keeping the game interesting because your decisions actually mattered.
I tried to play through a second time, but was so bored I couldn't. The game is definitely forgettable and that is exactly what I am trying to do forget the game ever happened.
I tried to play through a second time, but was so bored I couldn't. The game is definitely forgettable and that is exactly what I am trying to do forget the game ever happened.
What is this? Me vs. the entire god damned forum? Come on, some of you guys who like this game need to man up, and start arguing against this nonsense.
Wabe,
Didn't we go through simlar things when Origins came out ? Most people or rather a lot of people loved it but you hated it.
I like DA2. I thinks it's a good game. It's broken for Nvidia users, the 270.51 betas helped but it's still iffy even with the improvement those provided.
I like the combat better in DA2 it's much more fluid. The game looks good when DX 11 works right. I like the Talents/skill trees much better. I love Isabela, Aveline and Varric. I love having my own House instead of "camping out" The inventory system is greatly improved. I love that they gave my hero a voice in DA2.
I like what they did with the Qunari.
I don't like how the "story" is disjointed and all over the damn place. I don't like not being able to give my party members armor and a lot of weapons. Frankly I hate the whole damn Hero only bs items, bad move by Bioware in my opinion.
I don't like the same fucking maps/areas being used and reused over and over and over. I really hate the fact that the majority of my conversations change nothing in how the game plays. Some do. If for example; I tell Fenris I won't help him he'll leave the game and I won't ever see him again. However if I do his quests, after that no matter what I do he'll stick around ? really ? wtf ? I hate what they did with the elves. WTF are they all anorexic ?
I don't like how small that Kirkwall and the surrounding areas feel. The relationships with my party in DA2 don't feel nearly as deep or fleshed out as they were in Origins.
I like DA2, I really do. It's a good game. It's just nowhere near as good as Origins was in my opinion. That's a shame too because DA2 could have been an Epic game.
I feel that Bioware cheaped out or were just plain lazy in most of the choices they made. Maybe sold out is more like it. Bioware games have always , always, always been about story. Origins felt like an Epic novel. DA2 feels like a cliff notes quicky version of something that barely resembles the original.
I understand there are issues with the game, and some of them really irritate me, but the gameplay is just better to me. I enjoy the combat system MUCH more and you spend a lot of time in combat sequences. I kind of like the fact that the bosses are like semi-MMO type fights except for the fact that you control your whole party. I am just enjoying the game for what it is and if I look at it like that, I have no problems with it. I actually think this is my favorite game I've played in the past year or so.
Riddleofsteel
[H]ard|Gawd
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You're just now coming to this conclusion? I thought you were the only person here with nothing bad to say about it. Heck, I LIKE DA2, but playing it is like dating a girl with a face like a dropped lasagna. Very difficult to ignore.
krameriffic
2[H]4U
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I didn't find it frustrating or difficult in the slightest compared with its predecessor.
Your backup has arrived, Wabe.
The game is good. However, and unlike Origins, it is not great.
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s/unlike/like/
Ryom
[H]ard|Gawd
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If you've been to the Official Bioware forums lately, the devs are absolutely adamant that the game wasn't rushed.
Do you really think they would admit to it being rushed? These people have jobs they want to keep. Last thing they would do is post negatively about their own product on their own forums.
I would expect nothing less than politician-like responses from any Bioware rep on that site.Bioware would deny it was rushed even if they were only given a month to develop it. Bioware is and has always been careful with their words. They're open about a lot of things, but anything negative they hide.
Shalafi
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Stanley Woo says that this is the end of the line. Be excellent to each other.
WabeWalker
Supreme [H]ardness
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I read up on this Blood Mage thing.
People are saying that Merril can even be tanked - is this true?
How many re-spec potions have I already purchased? I guess that tonight I'm going to have to buy yet another potion, and re-spec Merril. I was experimenting with her last night by tinkering with her Entropy tree - it's difficult to see what it does? I was involved in a boss fight that went on for fifteen minutes, which was longer than the final battle against The Arch Demon in Bore-igins, and Merril's Entropy spells weren't exactly dramatic.
I still haven't found a sweet spot for my party. Aveline is essential as a tank. Anders, with his Regroup spell, is almost essential on Hard, as a healer. Fenris is a great damage dealer, but maybe I'll have to go with Merril as a Blood Mage instead.
People are saying that Merril can even be tanked - is this true?
How many re-spec potions have I already purchased? I guess that tonight I'm going to have to buy yet another potion, and re-spec Merril. I was experimenting with her last night by tinkering with her Entropy tree - it's difficult to see what it does? I was involved in a boss fight that went on for fifteen minutes, which was longer than the final battle against The Arch Demon in Bore-igins, and Merril's Entropy spells weren't exactly dramatic.
I still haven't found a sweet spot for my party. Aveline is essential as a tank. Anders, with his Regroup spell, is almost essential on Hard, as a healer. Fenris is a great damage dealer, but maybe I'll have to go with Merril as a Blood Mage instead.
You don't necessarily have to use her special tree (blood mage). For my first runthrough, which I am still doing now, I just use her as a normal damage dealer mage, and I have been using the Primal and entropy trees, and dabbling into a few others. She works great alongside Anders when he is in vengeance mode.
krameriffic
2[H]4U
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Merrill can be built in such a way that you focus almost entirely on health and rely on her blood magic. You can actually run toggles with a sum total cost greater than 100% because of the way blood magic works in the game. I ran her with about 6 toggles, including her blood magic toggle, and about 50 constitution by the end of the game. She had more health than my warriors did and she used a few items with improved blood magic and just used her health most of the time. Turn off Blood of the First and pop a potion or a heal if she needs it.
Aveline is a non-essential character/spec, even on hard. You could easily use Fenris as a "tank" instead.
Merril can absorb a ridiculous amount of damage because if spec'd as a bloodmage you can pump points into CON/MAGIC instead of WILL, resulting in an mage with ridiculous amounts of life that can be turned into mana. The Primal tree works extremely well with 2H war stun/stagger abilities, leading to ridiculous cross class damage combos.
15 minute boss fight? Where was this?
WabeWalker
Supreme [H]ardness
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The 15 minute fight was at the end of Merril's quest, in chapter two, when fighting that Varterral thing. I had to keep pausing, to micro manage everyone, just to keep them alive. I don't know if it was 15 minutes, but it felt longer than the final battle in origins.
What's the advantage of tanking Fenris instead of Aveline? Aesthetics?
HaMMerHeD
[H]F Junkie
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I took Aveline...about 3/4" of the way through, everyone else was dead but here. So then it became a game of beating the crap out of the thing until my stamina ran out, then running around until the stamina potion cooldown expired, and repeat. I won, but I had only a couple of potions left.
Parmenides
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Heh, probably depends on what dev you talk to. I'm sure certain aspects of the game weren't rushed. And those devs have no problem speaking out.
WabeWalker
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My experience exactly. I can't count the number of times everyone has died, except Aveline. And then she has to whittle down the remaining NPCs (usually just one), which takes her forever to do.
People who are cruising through this on Hard must have mastered a party build, because I'm nowhere even close to cruising through this. It's compelling though. I want to solve this mystery - doing it my own way, though.
Ocellaris
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They are just trying to save face and keep people's confidence high. Bioware built up a lot of goodwill in the gaming community with some excellent games. They know what sort of backlash would happen if a Bioware employee said "Yeah we had to shove this out the door 6 months before it was ready, so we just re-used the same 5 levels for the entire game and never fixed all of those bugs."
WabeWalker
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If I had worked my ass off, and a bunch of sniveling little school kids had started telling me that I had rushed the job, then I would have defended my work as well, and added that I actually know what work is, whereas all they do is sit around gaming, and complaining about it.
Ocellaris
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Getting a good party build + supporting tactics is definitely one of the primary keys to succeeding on Hard. I went through a lot of Maker's Sigh (respec potions), and once shit finally clicked, the game was a breeze.
The advantage of using Fenris/2H warrior Hawke over Aveline is that you gain a huge DPS boost and the ability to stun/stagger multiple enemies at once. Aveline can obviously soak up incredible amounts of damage but that isn't necessary in DA2; in fact, my play through got easier once I dropped her from my party.
There are a couple of posts on the Bioware forums (like this one) in which people build their party out to focus on high damage instead of survivability like I did. The game really is a breeze after you reach that perfect party composition (like Shale/mage/mage/mageeeeee from DA1).
HaMMerHeD
[H]F Junkie
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Fenris is such a gimpy little emo bitch....I couldn't stand having him around long enough to use him very much.
I completely agree! His constant crying about mages was killing me. I turned my rogue Hawke into a warrior Hawke and dropped Fenris/Aveline from my party. The addition of Varric's party banter made the 5-6 hours of gameplay I lost worthwhile.
WabeWalker
Supreme [H]ardness
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I seem to be honing in on a party that's being used by a lot of gamers.
1) Myself as the rogue.
2) Anders as the healer/damage dealer. You simply switch between Panacea and Vengeance. The trick is to keep Anders alive when all the health meters of your party members start drop to dangerously low levels. Some of your party members will even fall, whereupon you switch into Panacea mode and Regroup any party members who might have gone down. You then simply heal them all, and switch back to Vengeance, starting anew with a fully healed party. Without Anders being able to revive fallen party members, and heal them like this, it can make some of the battles on Hard very tough indeed.
3) Fenris as a damage dealer with his two handed sword. You just max out the two handed sword tree, and use everything.
4) The big one: Merril as a Blood Mage. Pump up her Constitution to ridiculous levels and you can send her right into the middle of the battle. Her Ensare spell sucks everyone in, and does pretty decent damage in and of itself. But then you hit all the surrounding NPCs with a chain lighting, which grows ridiculously powerful when used as a finishing move for a cross class combo from Fenris having stunned a bunch of targets. Then, pow, hit 'em again with Tempest or something. If Merril's health bar drops, then just take her out of Blood Mage mode, heal her up, and put her back into the Blood Mage mode again. Merril, as a Blood Mage, is almost invincible. And you can have about six toggles on her too! Just crazy insane!
I've only been playing like this for about an hour and a half on Hard, but right now, midway through Chapter Two, this almost feels like hitting the win button. It's still fun though, because I still find myself having to micro-manage my party during the second and third waves of attacking NPCs. (Again, you just have to learn to take control of Anders at the right time, when everyone's health is dropping.)
I don't know... I'm just having a hell of a lot of fun with this game... and I just didn't when playing Bore-igins... whoops! Origins I mean! Ha!
Also, I have to say, this is the first RPG in which I've played as a rogue. This game almost begs you to select that class. It feels fresh. And yeah, I'm eating crow about the animation system, which I now love. I was the biggest opponent of the new animations, and had zero hopes for this game. I didn't even bother to pre-order it months ahead of time, like a lot of other people did. Mike Laidlaw was right, and I was wrong.
1) Myself as the rogue.
2) Anders as the healer/damage dealer. You simply switch between Panacea and Vengeance. The trick is to keep Anders alive when all the health meters of your party members start drop to dangerously low levels. Some of your party members will even fall, whereupon you switch into Panacea mode and Regroup any party members who might have gone down. You then simply heal them all, and switch back to Vengeance, starting anew with a fully healed party. Without Anders being able to revive fallen party members, and heal them like this, it can make some of the battles on Hard very tough indeed.
3) Fenris as a damage dealer with his two handed sword. You just max out the two handed sword tree, and use everything.
4) The big one: Merril as a Blood Mage. Pump up her Constitution to ridiculous levels and you can send her right into the middle of the battle. Her Ensare spell sucks everyone in, and does pretty decent damage in and of itself. But then you hit all the surrounding NPCs with a chain lighting, which grows ridiculously powerful when used as a finishing move for a cross class combo from Fenris having stunned a bunch of targets. Then, pow, hit 'em again with Tempest or something. If Merril's health bar drops, then just take her out of Blood Mage mode, heal her up, and put her back into the Blood Mage mode again. Merril, as a Blood Mage, is almost invincible. And you can have about six toggles on her too! Just crazy insane!
I've only been playing like this for about an hour and a half on Hard, but right now, midway through Chapter Two, this almost feels like hitting the win button. It's still fun though, because I still find myself having to micro-manage my party during the second and third waves of attacking NPCs. (Again, you just have to learn to take control of Anders at the right time, when everyone's health is dropping.)
I don't know... I'm just having a hell of a lot of fun with this game... and I just didn't when playing Bore-igins... whoops! Origins I mean! Ha!
Also, I have to say, this is the first RPG in which I've played as a rogue. This game almost begs you to select that class. It feels fresh. And yeah, I'm eating crow about the animation system, which I now love. I was the biggest opponent of the new animations, and had zero hopes for this game. I didn't even bother to pre-order it months ahead of time, like a lot of other people did. Mike Laidlaw was right, and I was wrong.
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WabeWalker
Supreme [H]ardness
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LOL at the companion quest for Varic in Chapter Two called Family Matters. Hilarious!
Aveline can deal fine damage while being able to tank as well. You can still give her cleave and she becomes pretty powerful while being able to shrug off a ton of damage. She'll be able to grab aggro a lot easier too with cleave. Rally is bugged, so I don't use it, but I guess it would be okay for the mana/stamina bonus and battle synergy isn't needed by me with cleave. I think I am going to stick with my current group build as I haven't ran into a fight I couldn't beat yet.
I currently have pommell strike and shield bash so she can stagger multiple enemies, and w/ assault and scatter I can take advantage of my rogue's disorients. She really isn't hurting in the damage department.
My rogue is just a beast though, pulling 10k+ crits with shitty gear.
I currently have pommell strike and shield bash so she can stagger multiple enemies, and w/ assault and scatter I can take advantage of my rogue's disorients. She really isn't hurting in the damage department.
My rogue is just a beast though, pulling 10k+ crits with shitty gear.
You really missed out with NWN. It's not the quickest way to play through (stealth + detect traps and you WALK) but omg is it overpowered. Think sneak attack with a greatsword, plus use of an ungodly amount of magic items, and loads of traps to wreak havoc when you need a bit extra.