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Dragon Age II

Dallows said:
Seriously that game came out 10 years ago. Move the fuck on already.
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No.

Not dropping my affection and desire to have that type of experience recreated or bested.


I played many games over the years, several from Bioware, and enjoyed most of them. I am still enjoying dragon age 2, I just enjoy it far less than I would have due to some of the changes. Especially the setting and story.

Some history:

baldurs gate 2 - LOVED it

icewindale - did not love it, enjoyed the gameplay but the setting and story was less than bg2

knights of the old republic - loved it, great universe for an rpg, great mythos to explore with the ancient jedi and sith lore

knights of the old republic 2 - Same, loved it, some hated it, but it was primarily because it was unfinished.

mass effect - loved it

mass effect 2 - loved it even more

Dragon Age - Enjoyed it a great deal

Dragon Age 2 - Enjoyed it much less - as do many people.
 
Fail said:
C'mon now buddy, we know that Baldur's Gate 2 was a milestone in gaming, a great experience shared by many, memorable in many aspects, and definitely one of the defining moments in PC gaming.

Show a little more respect for it than that man. It's literally a game that defined what an RPG experience should be like on the PC platform, it's definitely been one of the standards for a very long time.

I should be mad at reading your post, but instead, I just feel more than a little sad about how great games of yesteryear are accorded a lack of respect by the young whippersnappers around these days. Without games like Baldur's Gate 2, we'd all be playing Chocobo's Mysterious Dungeon on the PC today.
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Yes, but sadly it's a game that didn't age well in terms of the gameplay, and trying to play it today is like trying to your own teeth out through your ass.
 
krameriffic said:
Yes, but sadly it's a game that didn't age well in terms of the gameplay, and trying to play it today is like trying to your own teeth out through your ass.
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I'm in the same boat. I never got the chance to play the BGs back in the day, tried playing them recently...bad...BAD idea. Was almost as bad as rewatching the 80s Ninja Turtles cartoon.
 
If you missed the boat, then you missed the boat, and your experience is simply not there to comprehend the greatness of what Baldur's Gate 2 was at the time of it's release.
 
Fail said:
If you missed the boat, then you missed the boat, and your experience is simply not there to comprehend the greatness of what Baldur's Gate 2 was at the time of it's release.
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Yep. Same with stuff like SS2, Deus Ex, or other great games of the era.
 
Derangel said:
Yep. Same with stuff like SS2, Deus Ex, or other great games of the era.
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to be fair, I have Deus Ex: GOTY on my Steam account, I need to make it a yearly ritual to install it and play it once a year.
 
Vagrant_Zero said:
I'm in the same boat. I never got the chance to play the BGs back in the day, tried playing them recently...bad...BAD idea. Was almost as bad as rewatching the 80s Ninja Turtles cartoon.
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Runs great with the widescreen mod. I was playing again about a year and a half ago before I got sidetracked by DA:O. Looks good at 1440x900. Then again I'm playing on a CRT, so no scaling needed.

2D games hold up a LOT better over time IMO. BG2 still looks nice. A good game is a good game. At worst, some older 3D games are very hard to look at on big screens (Final Fantasy 7 comes to mind)...but it doesn't make 'em suck.
 
Derangel said:
Yep. Same with stuff like SS2, Deus Ex, or other great games of the era.
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Totally disagree; If you're stuck on graphics and compare everything to Crysis - sure. But if you don't play for graphics - you prefer gameplay...go back and play Deus Ex or SS2 for the first time.
 
Tudz said:
Wasn't the console version of DAO very different to the PC version to begin with?
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It wasn't THAT different. It was much easier to micromanage on the PC and the difficulty was toned done a bit, like Normal on PC was Hard on 360/PS3.

To answer about what console gamers think - I have yet to meet one that is happy with the changes. Even they think it's too dumb downed.

Looks like BioWare pleased nobody with these changes.
 
DA2 is really damn short. Beat it around 23 hours doing all but 4 small stupid fetch quests. I think I spent more time in ME1 and 2. Also cliffhanger ending, ugh. Though the ending does make for some interesting possibilities for the next game. If Bioware actually has time to develop a proper sequel it could be a very interesting world with the events of DAO and DA2 taken into account.
 
dragon age 2 is to dragon age , what terminator 3 was to terminator 2, and ok on it's own merits, but sorely lacking when compared to what came before it, and about a 50 point drop in IQ.
 
Dallows said:
Except the people who are enjoying the game?
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Never said I wasn't enjoying the game myself. I don't like most of the changes but that doesn't make it a terrible game. It's a good game. Its just a step back from what made DA: O awesome in my opinion.
 
Tudz said:
Wasn't the console version of DAO very different to the PC version to begin with?
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You can't click to position your party on the console version. Ie. to move your archer back you have to pause, switch to them, unpause and run them to where you want them. To contrast this on the pc version you can pause, switch to them, click where you want them to go, and then unpause. This allows you to continue to issue commands to the other units while the one you moved is getting into position. It may sound minor, but it makes a big difference at higher difficulties.


I finished the Deep Roads last night and the story definitely picked up in a big way. Starting to enjoy the game a lot again.
 
Vagrant_Zero said:
I'm in the same boat. I never got the chance to play the BGs back in the day, tried playing them recently...bad...BAD idea. Was almost as bad as rewatching the 80s Ninja Turtles cartoon.
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Playing BG2? I thought the interface was pretty good. There's some issues with widescreen, probably with Windows 7, etc., but there's been an active modding community so that's not really a problem. BG2 is something like a good book. I come back to it every few years.

I'd agree that BG1 is painful to play due to the interface, but this can be fixed with mods.

[Sorry for the derailment. Just thought maybe Vagrant was missing out of something.]
 
Andrew_Carr said:
Playing BG2? I thought the interface was pretty good. There's some issues with widescreen, probably with Windows 7, etc., but there's been an active modding community so that's not really a problem. BG2 is something like a good book. I come back to it every few years.

I'd agree that BG1 is painful to play due to the interface, but this can be fixed with mods.

[Sorry for the derailment. Just thought maybe Vagrant was missing out of something.]
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Ya, BG1 w/ BG Tutu and widescreen mod makes the game look pretty great IMO. The backgrounds are all hand drawn so they look fantastic. Spells actually look decent and the characters are too small to really notice their imperfections.
 
People bitched pretty hard about BG2 back in the day, mainly about the forced opening dungeon sequence.

I disagree that Bioware's been all that great with regards to dialogue, specifically conversations. Many of the conversation 'trees' basically forced you into either accepting or rejecting a quest, and everything else was fluff (save some of the romance dialogue.)

DA:O might do the same thing but it seems (playing through it now) much, much more intelligent. This is the first time I've really been forced to consider what I say and what quests I accept. It's probably still a facade but I think they did a fantastic job and if DA II exceeds DA:O, great.

The story of DA:O is, well, epic fantasy and typical of the genre. No problems there. There doesn't seem to be much driving the plot, other than I need to get x, y and z to help me out against the blight, and when I feel like it I can get around to saving the Arl's life as well. I can see why people would knock the story. Gameplay is another thing; there are some memorable ambushes in the game. The big lack is that enemies don't alert one another in normal maps, so I can draw them off and defeat them piecemeal. DA II sounds like you don't get that option since you get waves of enemies (which is also pretty lame if that's *all* you get.)
 
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The high point of the game is the cut scenes. Everything else is pretty second rate. If it weren't for the cut scenes, I don't know who would put up with the rest.

Combat is just plain silly, with fighters/rogues teleporting/flying all over the place, or doing the super speed dash through enemies while they just explode. Enemies just pop in from nowhere, wave after wave....

Explorations get extremely tedious after a while when you have seen the same dungeon for the fifth time. Just this time the enemies will be replaced with raiders/spider/mages/undead/etc popping in out of nowhere. But the exact same layout again and again and again .... Tedious in the extreme.

Someone should just edit the cut scenes together and we might have a nice little Machinima movie.
 
eggrock said:
People bitched pretty hard about BG2 back in the day, mainly about the forced opening dungeon sequence.
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That was a somewhat common complaint. Why? Because people kept replaying it!

A Dungeon-be-gone mod was released to take care of it. And everyone lived happily...
 
About 20 hours in so far.


The bad:

My biggest though so far is that I felt much more engaged with the world and the characters in DA:O. The lack of the camp, the lack of a world other than Kirkwall and the button-clicking navigation within the city never allows me to build a world in my mind, suspending my disbelief. The horribly recycled areas that are so lazily done, even the mini-map shows areas that you can't get to due to being blocked off in the current one you are in. While the graphics are nice, I feel like the surroundings are very lacking. Outdoor areas feel like I'm standing on an island of good graphics, surrounded by some bland nothingness. The Dalish camp is so small, am I really supposed to think a whole people live there?

It feels like character interaction isn't as authentic in this game. Maybe it's just me.

The story isn't nearly as good as DA:O. You're given no real direction other than just running around doing quests for the sake of doing them. Yes, you're gathering gold to go to the Deep Roads. But why are you going to the deep roads? To get gold? Well, I've already got that covered...it is very shallow. I absolutely loved the epic (yes, it is epic) plot of DA:O where you are marshalling the countries forces together, despite their differences, to fight a common enemy.

The good:

The combat mechanics are very similar in that the tactics are along the same lines. The animations are greatly changed, which TBH is a very good thing for mages. DA:O's pathetic staff firing was lame. DA2 may go a bit overboard, but it is fun. Nothing like pausing the game in the midst of huge explosions and bursts of blood.

Honestly, it's all about the combat. It is fun and can be challenging. The story is still pretty good and the voice acting is pretty good as well.

DA:O was one of my favorite games of all time. I actually was pretty pissed when I first started playing DA2; I played a few hours then walked away. But after I got back into it, I find myself looking forward to playing it and geniunely enjoying it. As for whether it is worth $60 or not...for 36 hours of entertainment for one playthrough (and I'm already planning a 2nd, so more like 72+) thats damn cheap.
 
eloj said:
That was a somewhat common complaint. Why? Because of that bitchy, tree hugging Druid!
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Fixed that right up for you. :D

Jaheira losing Khalid at the opener was a pretty epic start to the game. (Still a hippy.)
 
The one thing I don't get, you'd think being in one city they'd be able to at least make it varied, make area's more unique, have good little detail and not recycle so much. Wher'ed all the time/development go for that area? seems like the environmental artist took a nap most of the game. The city needs more "life" and atmosphere to it imo.

I mean look at a game like Assassins creed, markets look like markets, people actaully moving around doing things. It feels like a "city."

For Kirkwall being "so full they can't let refugees in" it sure sems rather empty.
 
*sigh* :( The spark is just not there with this game. At this point, I should be racing home from work everyday wanting to fire up the game, but no, today I just watched tv, not even thinking about DAII. Such a let down. Bioware, I dont know man. You have me worried about ME3 now. Please please please dont F#$% up ME3!! :(
 
Stiler said:
The one thing I don't get, you'd think being in one city they'd be able to at least make it varied, make area's more unique, have good little detail and not recycle so much. Wher'ed all the time/development go for that area? seems like the environmental artist took a nap most of the game. The city needs more "life" and atmosphere to it imo.

I mean look at a game like Assassins creed, markets look like markets, people actaully moving around doing things. It feels like a "city."

For Kirkwall being "so full they can't let refugees in" it sure sems rather empty.
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What "all the time and development"? They had less than 18 months between games and likely only a little over a year of real development time.
 
Derangel said:
What "all the time and development"? They had less than 18 months between games and likely only a little over a year of real development time.
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You just hit the nail on the head right there, that's EXACTLY why RPG's shouldn't be rushed and given adequate amounts of development time to truly shine.

In the short term, all this game represents is just a cash grab, as evidenced by the finished product.

If Bioware/EA truly cared about making a good product, they'd have ensured that the game was given a proper amount of development time to ensure a finished product that would please consumers instead of this half ass shit they tried to pass off.
 
Fail said:
You just hit the nail on the head right there, that's EXACTLY why RPG's shouldn't be rushed and given adequate amounts of development time to truly shine.

In the short term, all this game represents is just a cash grab, as evidenced by the finished product.

If Bioware/EA truly cared about making a good product, they'd have ensured that the game was given a proper amount of development time to ensure a finished product that would please consumers instead of this half ass shit they tried to pass off.
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Bioware really doesn't have much say in the matter. They're owed by EA and if EA says they have to do something then they have to do it. Though I think Bioware should have spent less time massively overhauling the Eclipse engine and more on the game itself.
 
Derangel said:
Bioware really doesn't have much say in the matter. They're owed by EA and if EA says they have to do something then they have to do it. Though I think Bioware should have spent less time massively overhauling the Eclipse engine and more on the game itself.
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That's a fair argument, I can agree with that.
 
acidic said:
waves of enemies that just teleport on top of you from nowhere
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The waves of pointless throwaway trash enemies was the only thing I didn't like about the combat. Otherwise I felt it was every bit as tactical and difficult as combat in the original, perhaps even more so. Mages didn't completely and utterly dominate the battlefield in this one and the other classes felt more viable and interesting to play with a lot less useless talents stanking up their trees. If we could get the quality and depth of DAO's roleplaying and mix it with DA2's game, I think they would have a real winner on their hands.
 
Derangel said:
What "all the time and development"? They had less than 18 months between games and likely only a little over a year of real development time.
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Exactly the problem with DA2: it was rushed. Thanks, management of EA/Bioware.

Derangel said:
Bioware really doesn't have much say in the matter. They're owed by EA and if EA says they have to do something then they have to do it. Though I think Bioware should have spent less time massively overhauling the Eclipse engine and more on the game itself.
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If they'd kept the graphics largely the same, and spent more time on the gameplay....I'd have been happier.
 
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