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DOOM: The Dark Ages

Vegas P11 said:
Gamer: "OMG, It's the same recycled game over and over with this franchise, make something new!"

Also gamer: "Why did they change this franchise? It was a classic."
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I get where this is coming from and you kind of have a point.

However, there is a fine line between evolving the gameplay and keeping a franchise fresh and changing it so completely that the gameplay becomes unrecognizable from what it was. The latter leads to cases where fans of the franchise end up losing interest at best and feeling betrayed at worst. In this case, I thought Doom 2016 was a solid entry into the series and rebooted things nicely. However, even then I thought the gameplay was a bit too dated in some respects and didn't evolve the game in the right way. However, I still enjoyed it. Doom Eternal felt entirely different with its platforming and grappling mechanics. Not only did that not feel like Doom (essentially totally changing and reinventing world / map traversal) but the ammunition economy is such that you have to depend on melee kills and glory kills far more than you should have to.

It's a Doom game. It's a shooter franchise. I should have enough ammo to fucking shoot things. It feels like I had to do the shooters equivalent of trying to get as much fuel economy out of my vehicle as possible. I had to be way too stingy with ammo and it felt like most of the weapons I had on me never got drops. Only the shotgun and basic rifle ever got ammo and it never lasts. Some of this comes down to a lack of ammo spawns and some of it comes down to enemies being too spongy for the ammo you get. To me, it just wasn't an enjoyable experience as it felt too far removed from what made Doom 2016 feel like a modern interpretation of the classic games. There is a fine line between updating a game and fundamentally changing what made the earlier games in the series unique or popular to begin with.

Sequels should be extensions of the original game in that they should be familiar while evolving the experience.
 
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I'm fine with id Software changing things up again with Dark Ages...they shook things up with Eternal and I loved it so I'm sure whatever they do with DA will be fine...it's still Doom at its core
 
polonyc2 said:
I'm fine with id Software changing things up again with Dark Ages...they shook things up with Eternal and I loved it so I'm sure whatever they do with DA will be fine...it's still Doom at its core
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I hated Doom Eternal. I felt they tried to turn it into a platformer and its survival horror game ammo economy made it feel like they just wanted you to melee everything. However, at least with Doom the Dark Ages I wouldn't be expecting something in the same vein as Doom 2016. The title alone conveys different expectations.

I'm very much on the fence about whether or not I should even bother with this title. I know to expect more hack and slash type gameplay and sometimes that works for me but it completely turned me off to the previous game.
 
Dan_D said:
I hated Doom Eternal. I felt they tried to turn it into a platformer and its survival horror game ammo economy made it feel like they just wanted you to melee everything. However, at least with Doom the Dark Ages I wouldn't be expecting something in the same vein as Doom 2016. The title alone conveys different expectations.

I'm very much on the fence about whether or not I should even bother with this title. I know to expect more hack and slash type gameplay and sometimes that works for me but it completely turned me off to the previous game.
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melee is fun but I don't want it to be the focal point...seems like Dark Ages is leaning more towards melee and parrying as core gameplay features (Doom: Dark Souls)...Eternal took some getting used to but once you mastered the core gameplay elements it became a lot of fun...I'm expecting the same with Dark Ages

hopefully the path tracing patch will be released shortly after release and not months down the road
 
I've been playing Doom since the original on my dad's PC in our "Study Rm" back in the mid 90s

I love the Doom games. But my mantra would be "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

I hated Doom Eternal. It really actually pissed me off with how it wasn't a "Doom" game anymore. Always low on ammo was frustrating which seemed like such a bad design decision. And the swinging around monkey bars just seemed so odd and made zero sense in a fast paced shooter, like what tactical advantage would swinging on a bar and jumping up actually do?

It felt like Super Mario Bros meets Doom. Which is not cool for Doom, but cool for Nintendo.

Doom 2016 was great, and even Doom 3 going for something different like a sci-fi horror scary shooter was original. But Eternal just didn't cut it for me.

And now looking at Doom Dark Ages with lots of melee combat and needing to use a shield often. I don't know, this sounds like a different game to me. Big wide open world medieval style that Doom Dark Ages has is really cool and neat but should be for a different game title that's not what Doom is.

Call me boring, I just want a doom game that's fast moving, has lots of ammo and millions of monsters to blast down long corridors, with cutting edge best graphics
 
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one other thing...you need to go into the game with an open mind...if you've already made up your mind that you're going to hate it or you don't like the new mechanics then you're not giving the game a chance to be good...I've said this previously but I disliked Dark Souls 1 when I first played it...it wasn't until around the halfway point of the game where things just clicked and I started to love it...what I realized later was that I didn't understand the game mechanics and other obscure elements of the game...it was a very confusing game and unlike anything I ever played before...it's now my favorite series of games ever and From Software is my favorite developer

point being that obviously I liked it enough to keep playing as there was something there that really made it fun but you need to master the gameplay mechanics of a game before forming an opinion on it...otherwise you're basing it off of your own confusion...a game being confusing or challenging is not a good reason to dislike it in and of itself...Eternal felt different to Doom 2016 but once you master the game the way it was meant to be played with ammo/health/armor = chainsaw/glory kills/flame belch then it becomes one of the best FPS games of all time
 
polonyc2 said:
Eternal felt different to Doom 2016 but once you master the game the way it was meant to be played with ammo/health/armor = chainsaw/glory kills/flame belch then it becomes one of the best FPS games of all time
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I put 281 hours into Doom 2016. I put 166 hours into Doom Eternal. I don't like Eternal any more than I did at the beginning. I know how to play the game properly, I just don't like it. And I sure as f*ck wouldn't put it on my list of top FPS games of all time.
 
Maxtor said:
No multi-player for Dark Ages correct?
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I haven't heard anything mentioned. Good, no reason to waste their time and resources with that crap. I didn't touch the multiplayer in either 2016 or Eternal. I wasn't there for that.
 
Maxtor said:
No multi-player for Dark Ages correct?
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DrezKill said:
I haven't heard anything mentioned. Good, no reason to waste their time and resources with that crap. I didn't touch the multiplayer in either 2016 or Eternal. I wasn't there for that.
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1746651200008.png

https://gamerant.com/doom-dark-ages-why-no-multiplayer-explained/
 
Dan_D said:
I get where this is coming from and you kind of have a point.

However, there is a fine line between evolving the gameplay and keeping a franchise fresh and changing it so completely that the gameplay becomes unrecognizable from what it was. The latter leads to cases where fans of the franchise end up losing interest at best and feeling betrayed at worst. In this case, I thought Doom 2016 was a solid entry into the series and rebooted things nicely. However, even then I thought the gameplay was a bit too dated in some respects and didn't evolve the game in the right way. However, I still enjoyed it. Doom Eternal felt entirely different with its platforming and grappling mechanics. Not only did that not feel like Doom (essentially totally changing and reinventing world / map traversal) but the ammunition economy is such that you have to depend on melee kills and glory kills far more than you should have to.

It's a Doom game. It's a shooter franchise. I should have enough ammo to fucking shoot things. It feels like I had to do the shooters equivalent of trying to get as much fuel economy out of my vehicle as possible. I had to be way too stingy with ammo and it felt like most of the weapons I had on me never got drops. Only the shotgun and basic rifle ever got ammo and it never lasts. Some of this comes down to a lack of ammo spawns and some of it comes down to enemies being too spongy for the ammo you get. To me, it just wasn't an enjoyable experience as it felt too far removed from what made Doom 2016 feel like a modern interpretation of the classic games. There is a fine line between updating a game and fundamentally changing what made the earlier games in the series unique or popular to begin with.

Sequels should be extensions of the original game in that they should be familiar while evolving the experience.
Click to expand...
That part of eternal I hated as well, forcing me to use the chainsaw and have guys pop like loot pinatas was a very odd design choice. The platforming didn't bother me at all as it was fairly minimal, and some of the super jump stuff was actually kind of fun. I don't think it's different enough of a game from 2016 just because it had a design philosophy around cycling weapons and ammo scarcity. When you're in the shit killing stuff it feels like doom 2016, it's not like you're suddenly in third person mode or something using a sword. I think their intention was admirable in that they didn't want people to just stick to using the same couple of guns over and over, they wanted them to all be used. However, it just ended up feeling clunky and too forced. Saying it's unrecognizable is wrong though, it's very clearly a doom fps with some additional restrictions and mechanics that force you into a play style they intended.
 
polonyc2 said:
one other thing...you need to go into the game with an open mind...if you've already made up your mind that you're going to hate it or you don't like the new mechanics then you're not giving the game a chance to be good...I've said this previously but I disliked Dark Souls 1 when I first played it...it wasn't until around the halfway point of the game where things just clicked and I started to love it...what I realized later was that I didn't understand the game mechanics and other obscure elements of the game...it was a very confusing game and unlike anything I ever played before...it's now my favorite series of games ever and From Software is my favorite developer

point being that obviously I liked it enough to keep playing as there was something there that really made it fun but you need to master the gameplay mechanics of a game before forming an opinion on it...otherwise you're basing it off of your own confusion...a game being confusing or challenging is not a good reason to dislike it in and of itself...Eternal felt different to Doom 2016 but once you master the game the way it was meant to be played with ammo/health/armor = chainsaw/glory kills/flame belch then it becomes one of the best FPS games of all time
Click to expand...
I went into Doom Eternal expecting a Doom game. I saw a couple trailers for it ahead of time and that's about it. That's basically it for preconceived notions about the game. What I expected was something relatively close to Doom 2016. What I got was a platformer with the Dollar Tree version of the grapple gun from the Arkham games and the ammunition economy of a survival horror game coupled with the bullet sponge enemies of Destiny 2. Not a great combination in my opinion.

Doom is a fucking FPS shooter franchise. It's not hard to "master." It's not so mechanically different from or deeper than other shooters as to be hard to understand or play. I just didn't care for the general changes to the gameplay which felt significant to me. Also, I reject the idea that I need to play through a game to its half way point or invest dozens of hours into it in order to like it. That's crap. I know what I like. If a game doesn't grab me in two to three hours tops, I'm never going to like it.
 
Dan_D said:
What I expected was something relatively close to Doom 2016. What I got was a platformer with the Dollar Tree version of the grapple gun from the Arkham games and the ammunition economy of a survival horror game coupled with the bullet sponge enemies of Destiny 2. Not a great combination in my opinion
Click to expand...

the platforming stuff is exaggerated...it was such a small part of the overall game...Eternal was a Doom game with updated mechanics...fast movement and shooting enemies with guns was 95% of the game...only thing missing from the older Doom games was the horror aspect...anyone who loved Doom 2016 has no reason not to love Eternal

some games do take more than a few hours to get good- Red Dead Redemption 2 being one example...the bullet sponge enemies were there in Doom 2016...the only thing Eternal did differently was make it artificially difficult by overloading every battle with dozens and dozens of enemies of increasing difficulty
 
Dan_D said:
I went into Doom Eternal expecting a Doom game. I saw a couple trailers for it ahead of time and that's about it. That's basically it for preconceived notions about the game. What I expected was something relatively close to Doom 2016. What I got was a platformer with the Dollar Tree version of the grapple gun from the Arkham games and the ammunition economy of a survival horror game coupled with the bullet sponge enemies of Destiny 2. Not a great combination in my opinion.

Doom is a fucking FPS shooter franchise. It's not hard to "master." It's not so mechanically different from or deeper than other shooters as to be hard to understand or play. I just didn't care for the general changes to the gameplay which felt significant to me. Also, I reject the idea that I need to play through a game to its half way point or invest dozens of hours into it in order to like it. That's crap. I know what I like. If a game doesn't grab me in two to three hours tops, I'm never going to like it.
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wasting your time....


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX-ADMwN5_c
 
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Dan_D said:
I went into Doom Eternal expecting a Doom game. I saw a couple trailers for it ahead of time and that's about it. That's basically it for preconceived notions about the game. What I expected was something relatively close to Doom 2016. What I got was a platformer with the Dollar Tree version of the grapple gun from the Arkham games and the ammunition economy of a survival horror game coupled with the bullet sponge enemies of Destiny 2. Not a great combination in my opinion.

Doom is a fucking FPS shooter franchise. It's not hard to "master." It's not so mechanically different from or deeper than other shooters as to be hard to understand or play. I just didn't care for the general changes to the gameplay which felt significant to me. Also, I reject the idea that I need to play through a game to its half way point or invest dozens of hours into it in order to like it. That's crap. I know what I like. If a game doesn't grab me in two to three hours tops, I'm never going to like it.
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Amen

100% agree
 
polonyc2 said:
the platforming stuff is exaggerated...it was such a small part of the overall game...Eternal was a Doom game with updated mechanics...fast movement and shooting enemies with guns was 95% of the game...only thing missing from the older Doom games was the horror aspect...anyone who loved Doom 2016 has no reason not to love Eternal

some games do take more than a few hours to get good- Red Dead Redemption 2 being one example...the bullet sponge enemies were there in Doom 2016...the only thing Eternal did differently was make it artificially difficult by overloading every battle with dozens and dozens of enemies of increasing difficulty
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I liked it in the main game. Over a year later I hated the platforming in the DLC. I died more from the platforming than the enemies. I just didn't care for it at all in the DLC. I wouldn't mind a mix. Some more simplistic climbing to add some verticality. I did not like the forced weapon switching much either. This game looks good to me, though I worry it may have too much emphasis on melee. I don't mind it as an option though I would prefer if it is not required to gameplay. I'm more looking for a regular FPS game. So many fighting/action adventure games out there with melee, I'm really just looking for any type of shooter, particularly FPS games these days. So many options for melee games, not so much for shooters. So I can see why some people want this to be more of a pure shooter.
 
Flogger23m said:
I did not like the forced weapon switching much either...
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there was no forced weapon switching...you could easily use 1 main weapon (not counting the BFG or rocket launcher) for the entire game...when you run out of ammo you just use the chainsaw to kill those fodder enemies who are always wandering around...you never have to worry about ammo in the game if you are playing it right...or use multiple weapons and switch and wait for multiple weapons to run out of ammo and then use the chainsaw to refill all of them at one time (that's what I did)
 
Zorachus said:
Amen

100% agree
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The issue is that I (and seemingly many others) would have preferred a Doom Eternal sized DLC for Doom2016.

We never got any SP DLC for 2016. People say "Just go play Doom 2016" But that's so dismissive. There was so much more potential on the table for new levels, enemies, weapons. Why play ANYTHING past the first level if more of the same isn't better than less?
 
polonyc2 said:
there was no forced weapon switching...you could easily use 1 main weapon (not counting the BFG or rocket launcher) for the entire game...when you run out of ammo you just use the chainsaw to kill those fodder enemies who are always wandering around...you never have to worry about ammo in the game if you are playing it right...or use multiple weapons and switch and wait for multiple weapons to run out of ammo and then use the chainsaw to refill all of them at one time (that's what I did)
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So which is it? I thought you said you didn't need to worry about ammo if you play the game right. So why would you ever be using the chainsaw? Your statement is contradictory.

Not to mention, videos comparing Doom the Dark Ages to the previous installment mention the poor ammo economy of Doom Eternal. Tons of videos and various people all complained about the lack of ammo in Doom Eternal. It's literally been a common complaint since the game released.
 
Dan_D said:
So which is it? I thought you said you didn't need to worry about ammo if you play the game right. So why would you ever be using the chainsaw? Your statement is contradictory.

Not to mention, videos comparing Doom the Dark Ages to the previous installment mention the poor ammo economy of Doom Eternal. Tons of videos and various people all complained about the lack of ammo in Doom Eternal. It's literally been a common complaint since the game released.
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Pretty sure you needed to use that one weapon to pull out the "possessor" from certain enemies as well. If you didn't use it they would just jump into a new host and enemies would keep spawning. At least that is what I remembered.
 
People felt Doom Eternal was slow? Whatever dope you be smoking, pass it on bruh!

Chainsaw was required to drop ammo etc. That is correct.
 
Dan_D said:
So which is it? I thought you said you didn't need to worry about ammo if you play the game right. So why would you ever be using the chainsaw? Your statement is contradictory.

Not to mention, videos comparing Doom the Dark Ages to the previous installment mention the poor ammo economy of Doom Eternal. Tons of videos and various people all complained about the lack of ammo in Doom Eternal. It's literally been a common complaint since the game released.
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The same chainsaw mechanic was in 2016.
 
Armenius said:
The same chainsaw mechanic was in 2016.
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I just don't remember it as so tedious and forced to use, more as an option if one wants to use it or needs to. Not the cornerstone on every level, fighting demons, in order to survive, with the same animations over and over again with slight variations taking you out of the actual fight, which messed with my rhythm and timings, this mechanic tended to break the sequence of actions for me.
 
noko said:
I just don't remember it as so tedious and forced to use, more as an option if one wants to use it or needs to. Not the cornerstone on every level, fighting demons, in order to survive, with the same animations over and over again with slight variations taking you out of the actual fight, which messed with my rhythm and timings, this mechanic tended to break the sequence of actions for me.
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It did feel like a rhythm game, and then you just get halted to chainsaw something to get back into rhythm. It forces you into a very specific playstyle and it was a very deliberate game design choice. I wasnt a huge fan of it, and it did seem to be controversial. There's a lot of people that loved that aspect of the game. Im not one of them, but it still is very highly regarded. I didnt think it was bad, but i lost my ability to do the same thing over and over without noticing. The loop itself makes it stick out how repetitive what youre doing is and kills my ability to enjoy the otherwise great gun play. If it just had doom 2016 ammo gathering and made the chainsaw an option it'd be better than 2016 imo.
 
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revealed that DOOM: The Dark Ages reviews will go up on Friday, May 9, at 7 am PDT/10 am EDT/4 pm CEST.
 
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