Don't Buy Global Agenda - [H] Editorial

[MattyC]

I agree with Modred189. I am just not a fan of having my display chopped up by bezels. Some people may like it, but I (honestly) think it just sucks. I have zero interest in it.


That said, I don't think developers should be restricting people from using hardware they own. I mean cheating is one, thing, but more pixels? I don't see it as an issue. At least not one worth limiting. Let those who want it have their bezelfinity.

 

[mutantmagnet]

Wow, what "Hi-Rez" said really sounds like an programmers response and not a gamers reply at all. Surely if they were gamers and not programmers they would understand that while your kit makes for the play experience it has little to do with the skills a gamer brings to a game.

You don't even realize Hi-Rez is only making this statement to appeal to certain gamers who claim other players shouldn't have an unfair advantage because of how much money they can throw around.(in this case multiple monitors)

I guess you don't play MMOs and as a result aren't aware of MMO culture because this is essentially one of the bigger concerns for those type of gamers.

 

[Jediron]

While i do agree with Kyle that Eyefinity or any other multi-monitor resolution should not be blocked, i also can understand the idea behind it.

My answer to this issue:
Create online groups, based on resolution. So you can pick your competative fight by yourself and if you choose to fight with your 1600x1050 22inch display against a tripledisplayowner; it's your choice!

I truly love the idea of equal fighting conditions, like :
1) fixed lag (everyone the same as much as possible)
2) capped FPS
2a) Inform people which minimum cpu/gpu they need to reach that FPS
(so that a high end setup does not give that player any advantage over a HD5770 player/except the exept-candy)
2b) Inform people (set norm) for the minimum mouse requirements.
(so that for example a 800DPI mouse == with 2000dpi > mouses)

That way everyone with a reasonable internet connection have more or less the same conditions and are ready for a more or less fair fight on equal conditions. That would be great!

Aldo i have doubt that anything i just said is possible

 

[trynberg]

Just more catering to the lowest common denominator. It happens in every aspect of our society; why should we be surprised it happens in gaming?

The worst evil in the world is lowering the ability of someone else to match lesser people. This is just another (albeit much less important) example.

 

[alg7_munif]

You can buy all the gaming gears but you can't buy your skill. Using a powerful gear is also part of the skill.

 

[trinibwoy]

Wow I must say this is immature on a serious level. Calling for a boycott of a game because you can't play it on Eyefinity when that's not an issue for practically 100% of the market? It's one thing to say "that sucks", it's a whole other story using your (very popular) website to push some childish agenda. Why don't we just boycott every game that you have a problem with?

/shrug

 

[piscian18]

Thinking on it when Counter-strike: Source came out we all bitched about only being able to afford FX5200 and Ati 9600's while all the rich kids had 9800pros and 6800U's which gave smoother framerates. Big friggin deal get over it. Naw I can not believe the advantage thing being a legitimate reason. I smell conspiracy of some sort.

 

[GoldenTiger]

Wow I must say this is immature on a serious level. Calling for a boycott of a game because you can't play it on Eyefinity when that's not an issue for practically 100% of the market? It's one thing to say "that sucks", it's a whole other story using your (very popular) website to push some childish agenda. Why don't we just boycott every game that you have a problem with?

/shrug

Probably a little extreme of a thing as I said I felt, to call for a boycott on a game with a relatively large hardware site for lacking/not wanting to support 1 feature that less than 1% of the market uses (likely less).

 

[Modred189]

Probably a little extreme of a thing as I said I felt, to call for a boycott on a game with a relatively large hardware site for lacking/not wanting to support 1 feature that less than 1% of the market uses (likely less).

Wow I must say this is immature on a serious level. Calling for a boycott of a game because you can't play it on Eyefinity when that's not an issue for practically 100% of the market? It's one thing to say "that sucks", it's a whole other story using your (very popular) website to push some childish agenda. Why don't we just boycott every game that you have a problem with?

/shrug

It's not just Eyefinity gamers, though. See my post above (with the giant pictures) to see what a standard 22" user loses...

At least with Bioshock/2 I can fix it...

 

[piscian18]

Wow I must say this is immature on a serious level. Calling for a boycott of a game because you can't play it on Eyefinity when that's not an issue for practically 100% of the market? It's one thing to say "that sucks", it's a whole other story using your (very popular) website to push some childish agenda. Why don't we just boycott every game that you have a problem with?

/shrug

He didn't say eyefinity.

What has me a bit riled up is that Hi-Rez Studios is locking out the users of Eyefinity, TripleHead2Go, and SoftTH from enjoying their hard earned computer hardware when it comes to playing Global Agenda.

I gotta agree seems like a douchebag thing to do and I'm not boycotting the game much I'm gonna just pass on this one. When developers start doing douchie shit it's well within my rights to pass on a game that doesn't meet my standards. I'm glad I heard about this ahead of time thanks Kyle.

 

[Ocellaris]

While i do agree with Kyle that Eyefinity or any other multi-monitor resolution should not be blocked, i also can understand the idea behind it.

My answer to this issue:
Create online groups, based on resolution. So you can pick your competative fight by yourself and if you choose to fight with your 1600x1050 22inch display against a tripledisplayowner; it's your choice!

I truly love the idea of equal fighting conditions, like :
1) fixed lag (everyone the same as much as possible)
2) capped FPS
2a) Inform people which minimum cpu/gpu they need to reach that FPS
(so that a high end setup does not give that player any advantage over a HD5770 player/except the exept-candy)
2b) Inform people (set norm) for the minimum mouse requirements.
(so that for example a 800DPI mouse == with 2000dpi > mouses)

That way everyone with a reasonable internet connection have more or less the same conditions and are ready for a more or less fair fight on equal conditions. That would be great!

Aldo i have doubt that anything i just said is possible

nothing would kill online pc gaming faster than this :eek
Posted via [H] Mobile Device

 

[trinibwoy]

It's not just Eyefinity gamers, though. See my post above (with the giant pictures) to see what a standard 22" user loses...

Yeah I saw them. How does the standard horizontal orientation on the 22" compare to what 4:3 users see?

He didn't say eyefinity.

Who Kyle? Hmmm not sure if I missed something but his question to the devs seemed to be about multi-display resolutions offered by eyefinity, TH2G etc. It seems regular widescreen stuff works ok.

 

[wcmaxi]

If Global Agenda was a competitive game I could understand their stance. Effectively, allowing someone a wider view does give an advantage. The advantage is undeniable and that advantage is born from money, something the HardOCP crowd won't be short on, but the average Joe would be. However, this isn't a competitive game so who cares?

Ultimately, I have to agree with most posts here... HardOCP's post here is immature. Calling on your users to boycott something because it doesn't suit you isn't objective - it is selfish. It is their game, if they make the wrong choices it won't sell regardless of how effective or ineffective your boycott is. Let the market tell them how to develop their game.

 

[thachamp05]

there are still plenty of games that dont even support 16:9 and a few that dont support 16:10... theres always some stupid ass work around i have to use to play in 1920x1080. i think it will be a long time before we see universal eyefinity compatible games.

i mean honestly how many people have the gpu to play on eyefinity. while all of the 5 series will do eyefinity you probably need a 5850 or better to enjoy it. thats a very small minority of gamers.

i would rather see them fix 16:9 and 16:10 first and then go for eyefinity.

 

[Modred189]

Yeah I saw them. How does the standard horizontal orientation on the 22" compare to what 4:3 users see?

Look at it this way, all users are limited to the EXACT same horizontal field of view. That means that no matter what your resolution is, no matter how big your monitor, from side to side, your view will not change.
As a result, users with a 4:3 monitor will see significantly more vertical information than a 16:10, and even more than a 16:9 monitor.
i.e., the wider your screen, the smaller your view-"slit" will be in-game.

 

[Dan_D]

Guess I'll have to try it before i make any reasonable decision on it, i just can't see why I'd need such a wide resolution and the bezels would bother the hell out of me.

Don't knock Eyefinity until you've tried it. Beyond that, I don't like the idea of buying expensive hardware just for some snobby game company to not support it because it provides other players with "an unfair advantage." It sounds like flimsy justification for laziness on the part of the development studio.

 

[HisDivineShadow]

This reminds me of Blizzard banning players in WoW for using advanced macro's on their Logitech G15's.

Yes, those gamers paid more money for those keyboards and yes they were banned for it. That's what the keyboards were built for and this feature was widely considered banned because of what it could mean for the game as a whole.

The extra monitors do provide an advantage of peripheral vision and this is not an advantage that is also offered by a monitor with a higher res. Thus, the feature was blocked.

It's their game. It's their idea of balance. Makes sense to me. Sorry your bezel-infested mess that almost certainly affects less than 1% of all gamers is not going to work on this one game.

I agree with the above poster that if you're trying to hurt the developer, you're just giving them exposure. Of course, all of these Eyefinity comments (and the recent downplaying of nVidia's own version in a recent article) makes me wonder about your motives.

My motives are that I don't think we should be buying multiple monitors to play games on anymore than I think we should be buying multiple video cards. Or multiple video cards plus physics cards, plus sound cards, plus multiple monitors.

I don't think that to be competitive we should be expected to do this. I think ATI is using this as a differentiator in a time when console ports are the norm and they are having trouble matching nVidia's software relations team. I really wish ATI would work on getting their drivers up to date more quickly and getting mobile drivers out on a more routine basis for all their mobile users. I wish ATI would work on some kind of physics solution, even if it's a open one, rather than sitting on their hands letting nVidia run the only game in town. I wish ATI would work on more CoreAVC-like codec or Badaboom-like video encoding software that doesn't suck (ie., their own).

In short, I think Eyefinity is really the least important technology that ATI should be focusing their efforts on and if you're going to make editorials and talk to ATI on a regular basis, I wish you'd focus on the issues that affect more of your users than the very few that run Eyefinity.

Imo.

 

[trinibwoy]

Look at it this way, all users are limited to the EXACT same horizontal field of view. That means that no matter what your resolution is, no matter how big your monitor, from side to side, your view will not change.
As a result, users with a 4:3 monitor will see significantly more vertical information than a 16:10, and even more than a 16:9 monitor.
i.e., the wider your screen, the smaller your view-"slit" will be in-game.

Gotcha. Does the game have a lot going on in the vertical domain? If not then there's probably less of an issue there as long as the FOV is correct for standard widescreen setups. I'm glad Kyle is reaching out to get developers to adopt Eyefinity but his reaction was over the top IMO. It's not like it's some super hyped game that the handful of HD5xxx owners with triple monitors would've flocked to anyway.

 

[Modred189]

Gotcha. Does the game have a lot going on in the vertical domain? If not then there's probably less of an issue there as long as the FOV is correct for standard widescreen setups. I'm glad Kyle is reaching out to get developers to adopt Eyefinity but his reaction was over the top IMO. It's not like it's some super hyped game that the handful of HD5xxx owners with triple monitors would've flocked to anyway.

Oh, I agree, over the top, for sure. But it's freakin KYLE. That's why we come here. lol

Anyway, yea, it is a multi-level shooter from the videos I have seen, so this makes a pretty big difference. And I agree, if it had been like WOW, where most action in a given area occurs, mostly, on one plane (though this comes from someone who has not played since just before Burning Crusade). But with multi-tiered buildings etc, it just doesn't make any sense.

 

[Troz]

It is really simple, they are doing it to keep things even for the vast majority, just like other MMOs banning macro/botters. Gotta keep the monthly subscribers happy. Or did we forget this game has a monthly fee for more gameplay options?

 

[JCDenton]

Wow, this is ridiculous, classless, and immature.

As has been stated many times already in this thread, FOV is something that can have a major effect on game balance. Perhaps it's ever so slightly hypocritical to limit the game in one way for the sake of balance while allowing other unbalancing hardware differences to go unchecked, but it's a rational decision that reasonable minds can differ on. It's definitely not an egregious violation that demands that the developer be publicly flogged and boycotted.

By my count this is the second eyefinity fanboy rant we've seen out of Hardocp, the first being the castigation of Nvidia for something it never actually did or even discussed doing. While various trends work overtime to destroy PC gaming and go largely unaddressed, you're devoting your energies to attacking tiny encroachments on an ugly, bezeley technology that 99% of PC gamers don't even have.

As far as I'm aware HardOCP had jack shit to say about Modern Warfare 2 other than "yes, it does in fact work with eyefinity" and trumpeting its sales figures. You're remarkably silent about us now renting our PC games due to DRM. And again, the silence on consolization and shitty console ports is deafening. Where were the calls to boycott Saint's Row 2? And when can we expect you take on the ever more frequent "anti-piracy" driven delays of PC games long past the releases of their console counterparts? Before or after you take on the industry for selling us half a game and then trying to sell the rest as DLC instead of delivering full games with meaty expansion packs to follow?

There are so many issues that PC gamers could really use advocacy on, and for some reason you've decided to champion one of the most stupid and irrelevant issues. There are a LOT of games that deserve a boycott a lot more than Global Agenda.

 

[J Macker]

Kyle, you know what? Who gives a flying fuck about Eyefinity with 5760x1200 and 3600x1920 resolutions. I mean really here....you are bitching and complaining about settings only the rich and most extreme can even use anyways, and then practically boycotting the game maker because they don't support this? LOL, Kyle with all due respect give your head a shake man, you’re so out in left field it isn't even funny when it comes to what is really used today. I suggest you pay attention to Steams spec charts and see what is really out there in PC gamers hands. Not some rich dude with 6 monitors side by side geez...

Go visit www.grandmaoverclocking.com if you feel that way.

I want to know what games work with my NON-grandma PC. This place is the enthusiast niche. It is NOT toms.

 

[GoldenTiger]

Go visit www.grandmaoverclocking.com if you feel that way.

I want to know what games work with my NON-grandma PC. This place is the enthusiast niche. It is NOT toms.

Eh, Eyefinity is a minute niche that is barely visible, while enthusiast overclocking is rather widely known of and has many sites devoted to it. Huge difference there. At this point I'd liken it to phase change cooling: hardly anyone uses it, but it sure does make cool results . That'll change with time, though.

 

[maleficarus]

Look! Its a giant straw man! Lets burn it!

You are completely and utterly missing the point. They said "its an unfair advantage", which opens a door to many other things. Their claim is basically saying they removed the possibility of Eyefinity to make the game fair to everyone. Ok, fine, so why don't they force everyone to play at the same frame rate? After all a higher frame rate can be a huge advantage. Why don't they limit everyone's connection speed to be the same? Being able to get information to and from the server faster is an advantage. Or maybe they should limit everyone to 1280x1024 resolution because there is a HUGE difference between someone gaming at 1280x1024 versus someone playing at 2560x1600 (which is a resolution they allow). Oh, but wait, its unfair if one player is better than another so they need to gimp the better player to make it more fair.

I completely stand by my statement on the first page, its only a problem for people who suck. They're limiting the game because some people suck.

Oh bullshit! There is a huge difference between a higher resolution that really doesn’t give any extra advantage other then clearer textures vs. Eyefinity that gives you a FOV pretty much twice that of everyone else! You would be able to see things before anyone else could. So stop with your lame justifications. Faster FPS doesn’t give no extra advantage unless your comparing unplayable vs. playable. Again stop with the crap...A gamer playing at 30 FPS is not going to play any less skilled vs. a gamer with 50 FPS if both are at the same skill level with similar pings.

This technology is completely different as it gives the user a much wider FOV. So unless you have 3 monitors with a top of the line system to run it, you will be at an obvious disadvantage that can never be tweaked to even up. You follow me now?

 

[Ripskin]

I got the game on release date, and have made a post on their forums against their choice to not allow it.

Very annoying as Eyefinity's advantage is negligible. Complaining to them as a peon wont change much though.

I still enjoy the game a lot overall, having 3 screens showing the same thing in my face does get very annoying but I am not sorry I got the game. Hopefully enough people will complain and they will actually look at the technology before discounting it.

I hope they change their tune and enable the support, other wise single player is all I will stick too. I bought the game before realizing it was not allowed. Had it been publicized that it was not allowed I might not have bought it for their lame excuse in cutting it.

 

[forcefed]

Don't think you can buy publicity like this, the guys at Hi-Rez Studios will love [H] for this article considering the amount of people using eyefinity is slim at best.

 

[Jaguar Jim1]

I also read your Post Kyle, and this would appear at first Glance to be something out of IBM's old PC Building Strategy, if You remember, they thought no One would ever need anything faster than a X286, and that was what Doomed IBM in the Personal Computer Market. Same Story, just a Different twist, so in the End, if their Game goes Bust, it is because they cannot see the Forward Thinking Momentum of Multi-GPU/Monitor setups, then good bye to them, they'll be kicked aside by the Rest of us.

 

[FrgMstr]

Eh, Eyefinity is a minute niche that is barely visible,<snip>

Watch how many people stay in our video cards section all day and see how many are in ALL of the OC sections of the top forums in the USA then tell me that. You can make up all the stats you want, but the fact is you are just making shit up and have no data.

 

[kirbyrj]

Wow, this is ridiculous, classless, and immature.

As has been stated many times already in this thread, FOV is something that can have a major effect on game balance. Perhaps it's ever so slightly hypocritical to limit the game in one way for the sake of balance while allowing other unbalancing hardware differences to go unchecked, but it's a rational decision that reasonable minds can differ on. It's definitely not an egregious violation that demands that the developer be publicly flogged and boycotted.

<snip>

There are so many issues that PC gamers could really use advocacy on, and for some reason you've decided to champion one of the most stupid and irrelevant issues. There are a LOT of games that deserve a boycott a lot more than Global Agenda.

That's what I was thinking. What a waste of a bully pulpit on this one. Ridiculous, classless and immature is exactly right, and the conclusion is right on the money. I've been around a long time, and I haven't seen too many (what I consider to be) mistakes like this though from HardOCP. Oh well...win some, lose some.

 

[WorldExclusive]

The game looks weak anyways. There won't be much of a following. I tend to dislike games with laser guns, jetpacks etc.

 

[Derangel]

Oh bullshit! There is a huge difference between a higher resolution that really doesn’t give any extra advantage other then clearer textures vs. Eyefinity that gives you a FOV pretty much twice that of everyone else! You would be able to see things before anyone else could. So stop with your lame justifications. Faster FPS doesn’t give no extra advantage unless your comparing unplayable vs. playable. Again stop with the crap...A gamer playing at 30 FPS is not going to play any less skilled vs. a gamer with 50 FPS if both are at the same skill level with similar pings.

This technology is completely different as it gives the user a much wider FOV. So unless you have 3 monitors with a top of the line system to run it, you will be at an obvious disadvantage that can never be tweaked to even up. You follow me now?

Higher resoutions DO give more viewable space! I compared 2560x1600 to 1280x1024 specifically because its a similar extreme to what Eyefinity gives. If a game has proper FOV scaling the difference between those two resolutions is massive. The person running 2560x1600 will have a FAR larger viewing range versus the one running 1280x1024. Funny thing about that? It doesn't mean two shits as long as the person on the lower res is skilled. Eyefinity really isn't anything more than a set of super-high resolutions.

Actually FPS can matter. If we're talking about a quick paced game there is a very noticeable difference between 30fps and 60fps. I don't know how quick paced Global Agenda gets, but looking at some videos it seems like having a higher frame rate could make it better.

I don't mind you calling bullshit, but if you're going to do so at least provide better arguments.

 

[kirbyrj]

The one thing I like about you Kyle is you stand up and defend your self on the forums. Even though I don't agree with 80% of what you say, I have to give you a 100% for for being solid and standing your ground...

This is a case of the emperor having no clothes though .

Eyefinity is definitely a niche market...see the Steam Hardware Survey of "real" gamers (may or may not be enthusiasts ).

 

[noteworthy]

Watching this story unfold really brings back memories of punkbuster KICKING users with a modified executable to enable widescreen resolutions and fov fix for Battlefield 1942. There was a release by Matrox for the Paranalia video cards which allowed me to play Battlefield 1942 on three 19" monitors 3072x768 - It was wonderful and worked for about a year before punkbuster updated their files. Now all punkbuster enabled servers kicked for memory corruption if running the new executable with FOV fix. There was no support from anyone for this issue and was basically told to suck it up and deal with no surround gaming for one of my favorite games. Funny thing is widescreen fixer is acceptable and can be used with Battlefield 2. The makers of this program have contacted EA Games and they responded to have no issues with using this surround gaming FOV fix. I use this program quite a bit for CODWaW, and COD MW2. Thankfully Bad Company 2 works out of the box without any other programs for FOV fix.

Now with the emerging eyefinity technology I am hopeful game developers will not punish people for having better hardware. This move by this new 'game' is disappointing to say the least.

 

[gar818]

im with you on this one Kyle, F*** this game, i know alot of gamers, ill make sure all of them know about this crap.

 

[FrgMstr]

This is a case of the emperor having no clothes though .

Eyefinity is definitely a niche market...see the Steam Hardware Survey of "real" gamers (may or may not be enthusiasts ).

Do you really think those numbers are indicative of GPU sales? They are not even close and represent basically nothing. Not to slag Steam, I think it is great, but the numbers are meaningless in the overall GPU sales picture.

 

[Derangel]

This is a case of the emperor having no clothes though .

Eyefinity is definitely a niche market...see the Steam Hardware Survey of "real" gamers (may or may not be enthusiasts ).

I really don't think we should be taking these surveys as if they were 100% accurate to the average gamer. There is no data at all relating to how many people they survey each month nor do they expose how random the surveys really are.

On top of that, while Steam may have over 25 million users I'd bet that a good portion of them only play Source games or CS1.6 or other titles that don't require a gaming rig.

 

[FrgMstr]

Now with the emerging eyefinity technology I am hopeful game developers will not punish people for having better hardware. This move by this new 'game' is disappointing to say the least.

QFT, What he said, Ditto.

Good night guys. Catch you in the morrow. Been a great discussion, thanks for sharing your opinions. You guys being honest makes it worth getting up and coming to work every morning....oh wait, no, that is being able to game on a massive Eyefinity rig till lunchtime and call it work.

 

[Intel_Hydralisk]

I think a lot of people are getting confused. Lack of support for eyefinity is one thing, but outright blocking it and saying that it's cheating is another. In this case it doesn't just apply to eyefinity either. All widescreen users get borked. Ironically, as someone demonstrated, this game is in fact Vert+ which favors a 5:4 monitor.

 

[FrgMstr]

If you want to discount that, riddle me this: ATI has shipped what, 2 million GPU's that support DX11 and EyeFinity now right? Think of how many billions of computers are on the global market. Think of how few people on these forums, let alone other major ones like anandtech, pcper, ocforums, etc., that have eyefinity. Now let's be generous and say that a whopping 20% of those owners use eyefinity, making it 400,000 people. Compare that to the couple of billion computers around, and hundreds of millions of gaming pc's globally, and it's a tiny niche, nothing more, at this point in time. I am sure it will grow, as I said, but it's like widescreen monitors were at their introductions: there's simply no denying it's niche right now. Finally, Steam is not "nothing", it is the best public source of info available for hardware statistics.

Your thoughts are noted and I respect your viewpoint.

Again, good night.

 

[FrgMstr]

I think a lot of people are getting confused. Lack of support for eyefinity is one thing, but outright blocking it and saying that it's cheating is another. In this case it doesn't just apply to eyefinity either. All widescreen users get borked. Ironically, as someone demonstrated, this game is in fact Vert+ which favors a 5:4 monitor.

It does not matter how many times you say that, some folks just don't get that. For a third and final time. Good night!